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Is Atheism Irrational? NYTimes Opinion Piece (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Klimtology
- Start date
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I am somewhat shocked at the level of ignorance and bigotry displayed here. Then again, it is Fox News... 
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/04/fox-friends-promotes-discrimination-against-atheists/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/04/fox-friends-promotes-discrimination-against-atheists/
The Commish
Footballguy
That's something I will never understand...why does one have to make sure everyone knows "I don't want to work with X because he/she is an atheist". Just decline to work with them and move on. Do we really believe this isn't already common practice in 99% of situations already? So dumb, but as you say, it's Fox News so.....I am somewhat shocked at the level of ignorance and bigotry displayed here. Then again, it is Fox News...
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/04/fox-friends-promotes-discrimination-against-atheists
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Are you saying it's ok to decline to work with someone because they're an atheist, just so long as you don't verbalize that's your reason?That's something I will never understand...why does one have to make sure everyone knows "I don't want to work with X because he/she is an atheist". Just decline to work with them and move on. Do we really believe this isn't already common practice in 99% of situations already? So dumb, but as you say, it's Fox News so.....I am somewhat shocked at the level of ignorance and bigotry displayed here. Then again, it is Fox News...
The Commish
Footballguy
I didn't say it was ok. I said it's what happens....and not just with atheists. It happens all the time for all kinds of "illegal" reasons. This is why I don't get incredibly bent out of shape over "laws" like this existing. They're really there (nowadays) in name only.Are you saying it's ok to decline to work with someone because they're an atheist, just so long as you don't verbalize that's your reason?That's something I will never understand...why does one have to make sure everyone knows "I don't want to work with X because he/she is an atheist". Just decline to work with them and move on. Do we really believe this isn't already common practice in 99% of situations already? So dumb, but as you say, it's Fox News so.....I am somewhat shocked at the level of ignorance and bigotry displayed here. Then again, it is Fox News...
roadkill1292
Footballguy
When does a job applicant's religion come up in an employment interview?
I've been at my current job for four years and have zero idea about any of my co-worker's religious beliefs. Who talks about this stuff on the job? Sometimes I think I live and work in the only sane part of the country. And we're nucking futz.
I've been at my current job for four years and have zero idea about any of my co-worker's religious beliefs. Who talks about this stuff on the job? Sometimes I think I live and work in the only sane part of the country. And we're nucking futz.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
This is true, but we love to argue hypotheticals here. Real life is generally quite boring.
BTW, love the new sig.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I have had people bring it up in interviews and be pretty intense about it. Wanted everyone to know they were Christian and how they wanted to work with Christians. Obviously if I am doing the interview that is the companies last concern. Those people didn't get hired.CowboysFromHell said:This is true, but we love to argue hypotheticals here. Real life is generally quite boring.roadkill1292 said:
BTW, love the new sig.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Not hiring them is the sane thing to do, obviously. But the same BS may work on some evangelical employer down the block.I have had people bring it up in interviews and be pretty intense about it. Wanted everyone to know they were Christian and how they wanted to work with Christians. Obviously if I am doing the interview that is the companies last concern. Those people didn't get hired.CowboysFromHell said:This is true, but we love to argue hypotheticals here. Real life is generally quite boring.roadkill1292 said:
BTW, love the new sig.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Oh absolutely. I know companies that make no secret of wanting Christian workers. They put it on their jobs ads.Not hiring them is the sane thing to do, obviously. But the same BS may work on some evangelical employer down the block.I have had people bring it up in interviews and be pretty intense about it. Wanted everyone to know they were Christian and how they wanted to work with Christians. Obviously if I am doing the interview that is the companies last concern. Those people didn't get hired.CowboysFromHell said:This is true, but we love to argue hypotheticals here. Real life is generally quite boring.roadkill1292 said:
BTW, love the new sig.
cstu
Footballguy
How am I just finding out about this?
Pope Stephen II forged a letter from St. Peter in heaven to convince King Pepin of the Franks to defend Rome.
Pope Stephen II forged a letter from St. Peter in heaven to convince King Pepin of the Franks to defend Rome.
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Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
So yesterday was Openly Secular Day. 
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldn’t share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I can’t help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldn’t share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I can’t help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
One of the first steps for progress would be coming out of the closet.So yesterday was Openly Secular Day.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldn’t share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I can’t help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I'm lucky in that I come from a family full of heathens and nonbelievers. But if you come from a religious family it can be very hard. I know some folks who came out and are regularly cut out of family functions.One of the first steps for progress would be coming out of the closet.So yesterday was Openly Secular Day.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldnt share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I cant help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I think a major problem is simple lack of knowledge by the average joe on what exactly it means to be a non-believer. A lot of people think it makes you a devil worshiper, or someone who has no morals. Getting past that stigma is the biggest battle. I think most family members would accept it if they understood it.I'm lucky in that I come from a family full of heathens and nonbelievers. But if you come from a religious family it can be very hard. I know some folks who came out and are regularly cut out of family functions.One of the first steps for progress would be coming out of the closet.So yesterday was Openly Secular Day.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldnt share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I cant help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
So yesterday was Openly Secular Day.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldn’t share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I can’t help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
I refrained from posting something publicly as well.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Man, I'm sorry you guys feel the need to hide this.
If there is a level of judgement and criticism that leads to excluding/shunning, that is not Christ-like at all. Sadly, this seems to be very common among "Christians". When the church becomes more like a club where you're either in or you're out it loses the purpose that Jesus gave it.
I have a couple of cousins who I know are atheist, but they are welcomed with open arms at every family function.
If there is a level of judgement and criticism that leads to excluding/shunning, that is not Christ-like at all. Sadly, this seems to be very common among "Christians". When the church becomes more like a club where you're either in or you're out it loses the purpose that Jesus gave it.
I have a couple of cousins who I know are atheist, but they are welcomed with open arms at every family function.
I know of some people who belong to the group that coined "coming out of the closet" and they experienced the exact same thing.I'm lucky in that I come from a family full of heathens and nonbelievers. But if you come from a religious family it can be very hard. I know some folks who came out and are regularly cut out of family functions.One of the first steps for progress would be coming out of the closet.So yesterday was Openly Secular Day.
I like the concept as I think there is a lot of progress that needs to happen to make it acceptable to be a person of logic and reason (wild I know).
I couldnt share on FB for family reasons, but I did send a note out to several friends referencing Openly Secular day and a brief summary of how I got where I am today. It was helpful to me, I got some good responses, and I cant help but think maybe a few friends are in similar boat.
Families who cut off family members who don't by into their religion that just adds to the growing list of reasons why the overall affect of religion on our species has been negative.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Thanks Jayrod.
I think timing plays a big factor. My brother knows. But my parents are in their 70s and we don't talk about just all that much of anything. In my view telling them would almost be this weird grandstanding thing like "look at me". Telling them would only serve to hurt them IMO. But I became an atheist in my 30s, married with kids. If I were in college or single, had a need to explain why I don't want to get married in a church or somesuch, well, I would be OK being open with them.
The other prolly bigger hurdle is my in laws. I was married in the Catholic church, promise to raise the kids catholic etc. It was hard telling my very Catholic wife but she knows. But my MIL and FIL are two of the most religious people I know. They would (will someday?) be beside themselves. And I could conceivably seeing it lead down a road leading to divorce for me and/or impairing my relationship with my daughters.
I think timing plays a big factor. My brother knows. But my parents are in their 70s and we don't talk about just all that much of anything. In my view telling them would almost be this weird grandstanding thing like "look at me". Telling them would only serve to hurt them IMO. But I became an atheist in my 30s, married with kids. If I were in college or single, had a need to explain why I don't want to get married in a church or somesuch, well, I would be OK being open with them.
The other prolly bigger hurdle is my in laws. I was married in the Catholic church, promise to raise the kids catholic etc. It was hard telling my very Catholic wife but she knows. But my MIL and FIL are two of the most religious people I know. They would (will someday?) be beside themselves. And I could conceivably seeing it lead down a road leading to divorce for me and/or impairing my relationship with my daughters.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
I sent the following email out to some GBs.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Isn't religion kind of too private to discuss with your families? It never comes up in mine; for all I know there's all kinds of fundies, atheists and Rastafarians who show up at family functions.
The Commish
Footballguy
Man...I've never experienced or know anyone who experiences things like this. These are some dysfunctional situations for sure.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
No kidding. When my wife and I got married, I told both sides of the family that if they wanted to say something during the wedding that was great with the caveat there would be absolutely no mention of religion, God, Jesus, Allah, church, any "holy" book, or prayers. Our officiant was secular as well. I assumed my stance on religion was pretty clear and, while I am sure some were annoyed, I wasn't shunned from Christmas dinner.
NCCommish
Footballguy
In my experience it's the families with a strong fundamentalist bent that are the hardest on nonbelievers in their midst. Fundamentalists are really the bane of every religion IMO.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Timing IMO.
I didn't decide to try the whole atheism thing out until after I was married and have kids. Different than being atheist all along.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I guess I've lost touch with what "fundamentalist" means these days. In the world I live in, there is a shift occurring that gives me hope for the future. Even within the churches, there is a significant focus being placed on the WWJD approach. It seems to bring things into perspective. I have people in my family that are at kinds of different places in their beliefs / non beliefs, but the reality is, they are family and that's the part we have control over. That's what we focus on and we love each other before anything else.
NCCommish
Footballguy
New Pope has been preaching more inclusion. While imperfect he has done a good job of outreach to those formerly looked down on by congregations.
cstu
Footballguy
He's like McDonalds deciding to serve breakfast all day - desperate times call for desperate measures.
The Commish
Footballguy
Oddly enough, I don't see the shift in Catholics. No offense to Catholics here of course.
NCCommish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
American Catholics in general are already more liberal than most other countries so less shifting to do here perhaps.
cstu
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Every religion has it's fundamentalist wing.
To me a fundamentalist is someone with a very militant, very conservative, literal interpretation of their religions laws or texts. They actively fight against modernization of any theological philosophy often taking it into the secular sphere by enacting laws to prevent behaviors that run against their interpretation of their religious code.
Jayrod
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I'm an agnostic, but recently had a health scare and gave thanks to Jesus just in case.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
National day of prayer Thursday
matuski
Footballguy
What is the point of this?
If I believed in an all powerful God, I could also believe he would have others carry out murders for him.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I'm an outed atheist in my personal life, but totally in the closet at work. I'm pretty sure I'd lose my job quickly if it came to light at work.
matuski
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
(HULK)
(Smash)
Saying jihad is stupid basically.What is the point of this?
If I believed in an all powerful God, I could also believe he would have others carry out murders for him.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I work in Defense, so it is. Religion is still a big deal over here, separation of Church and State isn't a reality.
matuski
Footballguy
I work in Healthcare in Texas.. my largest customers are Baptist, Methodist, Seton, St Davids, Christus Santa Rosa, Catholic Health Initiatives, Adventist, etc,etc.....
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
A while back I threw into this thread the idea that among other situations, jail is one place where people are likely to "find god."
I just thought this article was on point with that...
I just thought this article was on point with that...
I;m not sure if that means that atheists are less likely to commit crimes or if people get religious once jailed...
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