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WR Odell Beckham, Jr., BAL (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bob Magaw
- Start date
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Matt Waldman with a positive scouting report on Beckham. The accompanying stills that the decriptive text refers to are in the linked article.
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2014/02/04/six-plays-that-make-me-a-fan-of-wr-odell-beckhams-game/
If I was a head coach, personnel director, general manager, or owner of a team, one of the first qualities I would demand of my players is a comfort level with physical play. Julius Thomas is a physical freak at eight end, but his reputation – fair or not – is that he doesn’t respond well to physical play. On the other hand, Hines Ward was a Timex.
I haven’t seen Beckham make or take any Ward-like hits, but a running theme throughout his game is the willingness to engage in the physical side of the game. Here’s the first play of the LSU-TCU game. Beckham is at the top of the formation between the left hash and left flat with the cornerback playing a yard off on this run play to the receiver’s side.
The fact that LSU is comfortable running to Beckham’s side in a 21 personnel 1×1 receivers set is a testament to Beckham as a run blocker. Beckham delivers an excellent punch with good hand placement. He integrates his hand use and leg drive to shove his opponent off the line of scrimmage.
It’s not a perfect block – Beckham over-extends his form during the block and allows the cornerback to turn outside and get up field. The receiver manages to counter with a shove that prevents the defensive back from reaching the runner.
If a player is going to make an error in the run game, I’d rather him be too eager to get physical than not eager enough. Beckham fits the bill.
No.2 – Beckham’s Game Has Layers
A kick or punt return can tell an evaluator a lot about a player’s style as a ball carrier. This return against TCU with 13:26 in the half tells me that Beckham’s running style is confident, intelligent, agile, explosive, and physical.
Beckham takes this kick seven yards deep in the end zone. The fact that there’s no hesitation about running this out is a positive. He’s confident in what he sees as well as his ability to execute.
I like that he sets up his first move by bending the run inside the right hash to the five to set up the wall of three blockers ahead. This is much like a running back pressing and cutting back. Beckham’s cut back is sharp enough to get outside the wall and force the unblocked defender coming up the sideline to take a bad angle.
Beckham then layers moves to get outside a defender coming over top at the 20. First, it’s a hop-step inside and followed with a break to the outside. These moves get Beckham to the 20 and then to the 25.
The receiver throws another combination of moves into the run, executing a stutter-step to set up a swat of the inside pursuit with this left arm that takes the defender to the ground. Like the block, Beckham is the player attacking and not being attacked. He finishes the play lowering his pads into a defender and continues forward another three yards.
Beckham’s ability to layer confidence, savvy, agility, and physicality into his game makes him the type of player I can use all over the field: the end-around, screens, special teams, and traditional timing routes.
No.3 – Patience and Explosion
This is a simple-looking post route that Beckham catches for a 42-yard gain against TCU on 1st and 10 with 0:16 in the first quarter as the outside twin man on a strong side twin I formation set. Both receivers are running posts on this play.
What I like about his play is Beckham’s patience. Watch the replay and you’ll see that he runs a long stem and continues his trajectory towards the cornerback. There’s no real set-up with movement to try to get the defender to bite. Beckham knows this corner is patient and not biting because he’s playing six yards off with no safety help.
The receiver maintains his path that will eventually force the defender to give up the inside or collide with Beckham. Late in the stem, the defender blinks just enough for Beckham to break inside.
This straight path that Beckham takes a nice sign of good speed that he can run a true linear route and earn separation without a head fake, stutter or dip. If not for an under-thrown ball, Beckham had the separation to run under this pass for a touchdown.
Beckham has to wait on the ball, but he still manages to make the catch with his hands and maintain possession with the corner wrapped around his waist. Winning against tight coverage is also a recurring theme for Beckham – another sign that he’s comfortable with physical play.
No.4 – Attacking Early
The last play was a good example of Beckham displaying patience as a route runner. This play illustrates that Beckham can win early and do so with an integration of physicality and agility. This is a 1st and 10 with 8:39 in the half from a 21-personnel, 1×1 receiver I-formation set at the 45 of LSU. The TCU cornerback is a yard of the line of scrimmage. Beckham is a yard behind the line in the left flat between the hash and the numbers.
When a receiver lines up 3-4 yards behind the line of scrimmage on a consistent basis, it’s a good indication that the offense is trying to prevent that player from getting pressed because they don’t have confidence in his skills to win early. Beckham is just a yard off the line and he uses that space to dictate the action.
He executes a strong stutter-step and pairs it with his outside arm to rip past the corner back, earning two yards of separation on the man within the first five yards of the release from the line of scrimmage. That’s a lot of space for a receiver to earn this early in a route. Austin Collie was fantastic at doing this at BYU and before his rash of injuries with the Colts.
I bet Beckham will display similar initial quickness and more top-end speed. On this play, the receiver is wide open but quarterback Zach Mettenberger once again under-throws the target.
The pass is a 49-yard throw from pitch to catch, but needed to be 50-52 yards in length for Beckham to run under it with his back to the defender. Instead, Beckham has to wait on the ball, the corner back recovers, and Beckham loses concentration, trying to turn up field before he has fully secured the target.
The ball bounces off Beckham’s hands, and the corner arrives just in time to pry the receiver’s arms away from any second-effort attempt. The end result is a negative, but I’ve seen enough plays where Beckham makes these types of catches – including more difficult ones – that it doesn’t outstrip the positive of this wide receiver’s skill to earn separation early in a route.
A play like this tells me that Beckham can help a team in a short timing game with heavy west coast principles or a vertical game that relies on a lot of play action. His versatility as a receiver is just as important as his versatility as a football player.
No.5 - Playing Big
Earlier this year, I profiled Jordy Nelson's ability to frame separation with a defensive back. Beckham flashes similar technique on this 2nd-and-11 pass with 2:36 in the half from a 1×1 receiver, 21 personnel I-formation set as the single receiver on the left side. Once again he’s a yard behind the line of scrimmage with the cornerback playing three yards off with outside shade.
At the top of his stem, Beckham takes a hard step into the body of the defender, frames separation with his hands, and then makes a quick break outside. I love how he comes back to the ball, attacking the target with a leaping catch at the sideline while the defender wraps him.
The hand strength to maintain possession on this play is impressive as is keeping both feet in bounds. This is an example why the dropped-post pattern is a “concentration drop.” Too many of these, and it’s a problematic thing for a receiver’s evaluation. However, in the context of what else I’ve seen – like this play – it’s not a concern.
No.6 – Varying The Storyline
In this game alone Beckham has attacked early, remained patient and kept it simple, and attacked late. This route is an example of Beckham using yet another press technique on a route further highlights his athleticism and concentration: the fade-stop.
Beckham is the single receiver at the numbers of the left side of the field facing a cornerback playing four yards off with inside shade and a safety 10 yards deep and just inside the left hash. I like the swim move to break outside and get an early step on the cornerback, baiting the defender to consider a deeper route before breaking back to the ball.
Beckham once again makes the reception after sustaining some contact from the defender. Like Greg Jennings, Isaac Bruce, or Tim Brown, Beckham is an average-size receiver who possesses the athleticism, toughness, technique, and savvy to play bigger than his measurements.
It’s why he’s a favorite of mine in this draft class even if his alumni haven’t shined as brightly in the NFL as some anticipated.
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2014/02/04/six-plays-that-make-me-a-fan-of-wr-odell-beckhams-game/
Some schools are known for producing good athletes whose games don’t translate to the NFL. LSU’s Beckham doesn’t fit that pattern.
Craig “Buster” Davis. Devery Henderson. Early Doucet. Brandon LaFell. Terrence Tolliver. These five receivers were good college players at LSU who failed to develop into productive starters that an NFL team feels it’s “set” at that spot in its lineup. Dwayne Bowe (and it was shaky for a bit) and Rueben Randle are the two exceptions in recent years.
Despite the fact that LSU has a history of recruiting great athletes whose physical skills tempt scouts and NFL personnel directors into selecting them only to earn a lower return on investment than they hoped, it’s never a good idea to write off a program or a group of players based on this recent trend. Every player is different – even if the trend seems to be strong.
It’s important to examine each player as an individual and not let past players from that program influence the decision-making process. Otherwise, evaluators can fall into the trap of following the back end of trends, which is a lot like following the back-end of a horse.
LSU’s starting receivers are two prospects that I like this year – especially Odell Beckham. The 6’0″, 187-pound junior may lack the prototypical height and weight of an NFL primary receiver, but he plays big and he’s versatile. Here are six plays that do a good job highlighting Beckham’s game at this stage of his career.
No.1 – Beckham Is A Football Player First, Receiver Second. If I was a head coach, personnel director, general manager, or owner of a team, one of the first qualities I would demand of my players is a comfort level with physical play. Julius Thomas is a physical freak at eight end, but his reputation – fair or not – is that he doesn’t respond well to physical play. On the other hand, Hines Ward was a Timex.
I haven’t seen Beckham make or take any Ward-like hits, but a running theme throughout his game is the willingness to engage in the physical side of the game. Here’s the first play of the LSU-TCU game. Beckham is at the top of the formation between the left hash and left flat with the cornerback playing a yard off on this run play to the receiver’s side.
The fact that LSU is comfortable running to Beckham’s side in a 21 personnel 1×1 receivers set is a testament to Beckham as a run blocker. Beckham delivers an excellent punch with good hand placement. He integrates his hand use and leg drive to shove his opponent off the line of scrimmage.
It’s not a perfect block – Beckham over-extends his form during the block and allows the cornerback to turn outside and get up field. The receiver manages to counter with a shove that prevents the defensive back from reaching the runner.
If a player is going to make an error in the run game, I’d rather him be too eager to get physical than not eager enough. Beckham fits the bill.
No.2 – Beckham’s Game Has Layers
A kick or punt return can tell an evaluator a lot about a player’s style as a ball carrier. This return against TCU with 13:26 in the half tells me that Beckham’s running style is confident, intelligent, agile, explosive, and physical.
Beckham takes this kick seven yards deep in the end zone. The fact that there’s no hesitation about running this out is a positive. He’s confident in what he sees as well as his ability to execute.
I like that he sets up his first move by bending the run inside the right hash to the five to set up the wall of three blockers ahead. This is much like a running back pressing and cutting back. Beckham’s cut back is sharp enough to get outside the wall and force the unblocked defender coming up the sideline to take a bad angle.
Beckham then layers moves to get outside a defender coming over top at the 20. First, it’s a hop-step inside and followed with a break to the outside. These moves get Beckham to the 20 and then to the 25.
The receiver throws another combination of moves into the run, executing a stutter-step to set up a swat of the inside pursuit with this left arm that takes the defender to the ground. Like the block, Beckham is the player attacking and not being attacked. He finishes the play lowering his pads into a defender and continues forward another three yards.
Beckham’s ability to layer confidence, savvy, agility, and physicality into his game makes him the type of player I can use all over the field: the end-around, screens, special teams, and traditional timing routes.
No.3 – Patience and Explosion
This is a simple-looking post route that Beckham catches for a 42-yard gain against TCU on 1st and 10 with 0:16 in the first quarter as the outside twin man on a strong side twin I formation set. Both receivers are running posts on this play.
What I like about his play is Beckham’s patience. Watch the replay and you’ll see that he runs a long stem and continues his trajectory towards the cornerback. There’s no real set-up with movement to try to get the defender to bite. Beckham knows this corner is patient and not biting because he’s playing six yards off with no safety help.
The receiver maintains his path that will eventually force the defender to give up the inside or collide with Beckham. Late in the stem, the defender blinks just enough for Beckham to break inside.
This straight path that Beckham takes a nice sign of good speed that he can run a true linear route and earn separation without a head fake, stutter or dip. If not for an under-thrown ball, Beckham had the separation to run under this pass for a touchdown.
Beckham has to wait on the ball, but he still manages to make the catch with his hands and maintain possession with the corner wrapped around his waist. Winning against tight coverage is also a recurring theme for Beckham – another sign that he’s comfortable with physical play.
No.4 – Attacking Early
The last play was a good example of Beckham displaying patience as a route runner. This play illustrates that Beckham can win early and do so with an integration of physicality and agility. This is a 1st and 10 with 8:39 in the half from a 21-personnel, 1×1 receiver I-formation set at the 45 of LSU. The TCU cornerback is a yard of the line of scrimmage. Beckham is a yard behind the line in the left flat between the hash and the numbers.
When a receiver lines up 3-4 yards behind the line of scrimmage on a consistent basis, it’s a good indication that the offense is trying to prevent that player from getting pressed because they don’t have confidence in his skills to win early. Beckham is just a yard off the line and he uses that space to dictate the action.
He executes a strong stutter-step and pairs it with his outside arm to rip past the corner back, earning two yards of separation on the man within the first five yards of the release from the line of scrimmage. That’s a lot of space for a receiver to earn this early in a route. Austin Collie was fantastic at doing this at BYU and before his rash of injuries with the Colts.
I bet Beckham will display similar initial quickness and more top-end speed. On this play, the receiver is wide open but quarterback Zach Mettenberger once again under-throws the target.
The pass is a 49-yard throw from pitch to catch, but needed to be 50-52 yards in length for Beckham to run under it with his back to the defender. Instead, Beckham has to wait on the ball, the corner back recovers, and Beckham loses concentration, trying to turn up field before he has fully secured the target.
The ball bounces off Beckham’s hands, and the corner arrives just in time to pry the receiver’s arms away from any second-effort attempt. The end result is a negative, but I’ve seen enough plays where Beckham makes these types of catches – including more difficult ones – that it doesn’t outstrip the positive of this wide receiver’s skill to earn separation early in a route.
A play like this tells me that Beckham can help a team in a short timing game with heavy west coast principles or a vertical game that relies on a lot of play action. His versatility as a receiver is just as important as his versatility as a football player.
No.5 - Playing Big
Earlier this year, I profiled Jordy Nelson's ability to frame separation with a defensive back. Beckham flashes similar technique on this 2nd-and-11 pass with 2:36 in the half from a 1×1 receiver, 21 personnel I-formation set as the single receiver on the left side. Once again he’s a yard behind the line of scrimmage with the cornerback playing three yards off with outside shade.
At the top of his stem, Beckham takes a hard step into the body of the defender, frames separation with his hands, and then makes a quick break outside. I love how he comes back to the ball, attacking the target with a leaping catch at the sideline while the defender wraps him.
The hand strength to maintain possession on this play is impressive as is keeping both feet in bounds. This is an example why the dropped-post pattern is a “concentration drop.” Too many of these, and it’s a problematic thing for a receiver’s evaluation. However, in the context of what else I’ve seen – like this play – it’s not a concern.
No.6 – Varying The Storyline
In this game alone Beckham has attacked early, remained patient and kept it simple, and attacked late. This route is an example of Beckham using yet another press technique on a route further highlights his athleticism and concentration: the fade-stop.
Beckham is the single receiver at the numbers of the left side of the field facing a cornerback playing four yards off with inside shade and a safety 10 yards deep and just inside the left hash. I like the swim move to break outside and get an early step on the cornerback, baiting the defender to consider a deeper route before breaking back to the ball.
Beckham once again makes the reception after sustaining some contact from the defender. Like Greg Jennings, Isaac Bruce, or Tim Brown, Beckham is an average-size receiver who possesses the athleticism, toughness, technique, and savvy to play bigger than his measurements.
It’s why he’s a favorite of mine in this draft class even if his alumni haven’t shined as brightly in the NFL as some anticipated.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
This can't be right. Everyone knows that "the tape" speaks directly to those with magic eyes, and that the combine Underwear Olympics is irrelevant.
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Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Would love to see him at the top of the second for the Redskins.
Archer
Footballguy
I would think the Skins would be thrilled to find him, Lee, or Cooks there in the 2nd. Not sure any will be though.
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
All abooooooooooard!
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Says the guy who dogged Keenan Allen all offseason for being slow and lacking any elite measureables... I think I recall you saying something like - Whoever drafts Allen as anything other than a complimentary player is going to be making a costly mistake. (I don't know the exact wording you used so don't hold me to this. I try not to visit the Combine Numbers Regurgitation Blog of yours.)
In all seriousness, Landry has some of the best hands in this class and was never thought of as a burner. While his 40 time was ridiculously slow (as was Allen's last year), I don't think it really hurt him as much as the talking heads at Rotoworld think... unless those people put majority of their prospect's stock in measurables taken while wearing underwear.
ETA: Don't get me wrong, I'll take OBJ all day over Landry.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
6-0 guys who run slow don't have great track record, at least in fantasy. He has a chance to be Hines Ward, but he's not 6-2 and able to do the things Keenan Allen can to make up for his speed.
Says the guy who dogged Keenan Allen all offseason for being slow and lacking any elite measureables... I think I recall you saying something like - Whoever drafts Allen as anything other than a complimentary player is going to be making a costly mistake. (I don't know the exact wording you used so don't hold me to this. I try not to visit the Combine Numbers Regurgitation Blog of yours.)
In all seriousness, Landry has some of the best hands in this class and was never thought of as a burner. While his 40 time was ridiculously slow (as was Allen's last year), I don't think it really hurt him as much as the talking heads at Rotoworld think... unless those people put majority of their prospect's stock in measurables taken while wearing underwear.
ETA: Don't get me wrong, I'll take OBJ all day over Landry.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Touche, yet I was in complete rebuild mode for the past few seasons. I think I'll be a perennial playoff contender from here on out though.Maybe if you did I wouldn't be curb stomping you year after year.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Hellova athlete and nice highlights. But, is the numbers below any indication that he's not ready for the NFL yet? He was beating up little guys and was mediocre vs NFL-like/size opponents. I wouldn't be shocked if he was the best WR in this class in a few years, nor would I if he flat out bust. I guess at a certain point in the draft you take your chances. He's too gifted as an athlete to pass up at a certain point.
5.3 receptions, 138.7 rec. yards, 2.00 TDs per game = 2013 Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Furman, UAB, Kent State
4.2 receptions, 63.2 rec. yards, 0.00 TDs per game = 2013 Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Ala, Aub, Ga, Fla, Texas A&M
5.3 receptions, 138.7 rec. yards, 2.00 TDs per game = 2013 Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Furman, UAB, Kent State
4.2 receptions, 63.2 rec. yards, 0.00 TDs per game = 2013 Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Ala, Aub, Ga, Fla, Texas A&M
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
Was a big knock on him that he seemed to disappear during the big games. I'm wondering if that was game planning by the SEC opponents that have had to deal with him before?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
In the biggest interview of his life he put up 7 bench reps. I'm going to question his effort on this one. Everyone knew the "overrated" Jordan Mathews was getting the ball every week. No one stopped him. To sum it up, drafting Odell Beckham Jr. you're getting a tremendous athlete that you "hope" is ready to play in the NFL mentally.
cstu
Footballguy
I love what I see watching Beckham play and his numbers are great, but...
...I thought the same thing about A.J. Jenkins.
EBF
Footballguy
Great player. If I made a short list of guys in this class with zero bust risk, he'd be near the top. He has no major warts. Very good athlete. Fast, quick, and explosive. Fluid movement. Elusive. Reasonably strong. Nice college production. Projected high pick. Passes the eyeball test.
My only concern is what the ceiling might be. There aren't a lot of guys with his dimensions dominating in the NFL. The top of the WR scoring chart is mostly ruled by big bodied possession/YAC/speed hybrid types like Demaryius, Andre, VJax, and Dez.
There was another smallish dynamic punt returner/receiver who came into the league a few years ago as a high pick that I liked a lot. At one point I had this player rostered in every one of my leagues. Here's the how he stacks up with Beckham:
Player X
Height - 5'10 7/8"
Weight - 195
BMI - 27.3
40 - 4.40
Broad Jump - 10'
Vertical - 36"
Three Cone - 6.77
Odell Beckham
Height - 5'11 1/4"
Weight - 198
BMI - 27.4
40 - 4.43
Broad Jump - 10'2"
Vertical - 38.5"
Three Cone - 6.69
They're nearly identical on paper.
Can you guess who Player X is?
http://i.azcentral.com/commphoto_images/commphotos/6/1/8/618453.jpg
I think the biggest risk factor with Beckham is that he ends up like this. A complementary receiver/return man who, while clearly not a bust, doesn't quite give you enough production to really be worth anything in FF. I happen to think Beckham is a little better than Roberts, but if he tops out as a 900-1000 yard guy with minimal red zone value then that's not necessarily going to be a massive boost to your FF team as a first round rookie pick.
That's going to be the internal debate when I'm on the clock in my rookie drafts because he clearly moves better than a guy like Donte Moncrief and he's a better athlete overall than a guy like Allen Robinson, but it's not inconceivable that inferior athletes with better frames could be more productive in the NFL.
My only concern is what the ceiling might be. There aren't a lot of guys with his dimensions dominating in the NFL. The top of the WR scoring chart is mostly ruled by big bodied possession/YAC/speed hybrid types like Demaryius, Andre, VJax, and Dez.
There was another smallish dynamic punt returner/receiver who came into the league a few years ago as a high pick that I liked a lot. At one point I had this player rostered in every one of my leagues. Here's the how he stacks up with Beckham:
Player X
Height - 5'10 7/8"
Weight - 195
BMI - 27.3
40 - 4.40
Broad Jump - 10'
Vertical - 36"
Three Cone - 6.77
Odell Beckham
Height - 5'11 1/4"
Weight - 198
BMI - 27.4
40 - 4.43
Broad Jump - 10'2"
Vertical - 38.5"
Three Cone - 6.69
They're nearly identical on paper.
Can you guess who Player X is?
http://i.azcentral.com/commphoto_images/commphotos/6/1/8/618453.jpg
I think the biggest risk factor with Beckham is that he ends up like this. A complementary receiver/return man who, while clearly not a bust, doesn't quite give you enough production to really be worth anything in FF. I happen to think Beckham is a little better than Roberts, but if he tops out as a 900-1000 yard guy with minimal red zone value then that's not necessarily going to be a massive boost to your FF team as a first round rookie pick.
That's going to be the internal debate when I'm on the clock in my rookie drafts because he clearly moves better than a guy like Donte Moncrief and he's a better athlete overall than a guy like Allen Robinson, but it's not inconceivable that inferior athletes with better frames could be more productive in the NFL.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Curb stomp? Ouch. Felix jones and mendenhall must have been monsters in that leagueMaybe if you did I wouldn't be curb stomping you year after year.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
It would also be interesting to track if variance in Mettenberg's play against better teams contributed to the decline.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
That is the question, if you can't get Andre Johnson, Thomas, Jackson or Bryant, who do you pick. Hopefully OBJ is better, but Roberts didn't really have a chance to shine with the QB situation in 2012, and being the WR3 in 2013. If Beckham goes to as bad of a QB situation, or projects as a WR3, that may well impact his dynasty value.
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EBF
Footballguy
I don't agree with all of Rob's ideas and I think he has an inflated sense of how accurate/predictive/revolutionary some of his methods are, but he has been a consistent winner in the tough leagues that we play in together. There's no doubt that he is legit in the world of dynasty FF (though I think identifying veteran/prospect gems and having a good sense for veteran value in different scoring systems might have more to do with that than great rookie drafting).Curb stomp? Ouch. Felix jones and mendenhall must have been monsters in that leagueMaybe if you did I wouldn't be curb stomping you year after year.
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
Well in that particular league the playoffs are all play weeks 14-16 (All play record / total points) - he had Charles & Foles go off week 15 with a little help from Seattle DST & Garcon. I don't think many people who had Charles lost in a playoff format like that.I don't agree with all of Rob's ideas and I think he has an inflated sense of how accurate/predictive/revolutionary some of his methods are, but he has been a consistent winner in the tough leagues that we play in together. There's no doubt that he is legit in the world of dynasty FF (though I think identifying veteran gems and having a good sense for veteran value in different scoring systems might have more to do with that than great rookie drafting).Curb stomp? Ouch. Felix jones and mendenhall must have been monsters in that leagueMaybe if you did I wouldn't be curb stomping you year after year.
The only reason he got into the playoffs was because we let the high points leader in - he didn't get in on record lol. He deservedly won though and props to him for that.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I respect all my opponents, and. I played vs Robb in two leagues. Mox sf3 and a shark bait league where I pretty much curb stomped him, true he was just starting out then but there is a clear flaw in his rookie methods, he will always miss on the Keenan Allen and aj green types, based on some flaw in his. Measurements. Ah well, I'm guessing Allen Robinson will be similar miss based on his methodsI don't agree with all of Rob's ideas and I think he has an inflated sense of how accurate/predictive/revolutionary some of his methods are, but he has been a consistent winner in the tough leagues that we play in together. There's no doubt that he is legit in the world of dynasty FF (though I think identifying veteran gems and having a good sense for veteran value in different scoring systems might have more to do with that than great rookie drafting).Curb stomp? Ouch. Felix jones and mendenhall must have been monsters in that leagueMaybe if you did I wouldn't be curb stomping you year after year.
Back to Beecham, like him like him alot
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Sorry to sidetrack us. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
OBJr looks like Percy Harvin light to me. Or a better version of Kendall Wright. Hard to compare well since Harvin played out of the backfield so much, but probably closer to him. Either way...
OBJr looks like Percy Harvin light to me. Or a better version of Kendall Wright. Hard to compare well since Harvin played out of the backfield so much, but probably closer to him. Either way...
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
Regarding his effort... I do think he may have taken some plays off but I can't just see how it correlates to the low bench press numbers.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Someone, I think maybe Bob, put Cobb in my head as a comp and I can't seem to shake it.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
If we wanna base right/wrong on the history of outcomes of rotoworld blurb opinion, chances are no, it won't be right in the end.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Whew! Thank goodness.
I can look forward to seeing Carey and Landry in the 2nd round then?
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Probably not, the NFL likes to draft combine wonders in that round like Brian Quick and Chris Henry, expect Carey and Landry to go later, but I also expect them to carve out roles in the NFL, and Landry to perhaps carve out a real nice one.
GeeYouknit
Footballguy
Beckham is Sammy but an inch and a half shorter and has quicker feet/cutting ability.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The WR crop seems so rich this year, there could be some top shelf talent going to some very good playoff caliber offensive teams.
Beckham is a playmaker, he will be a fan favorite wherever he lands.
Beckham is a playmaker, he will be a fan favorite wherever he lands.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
Never saw him play but noticed a mock with him going to the Eagles. Like what I see and so he is a returner too? Could be a good replacement for a recent cut.
steveski
Footballguy
Would love to see him land with the Giants if Ebron/Evans are gone. I don't think it's that big of a stretch either since there won't be any real great OL/DL prospects at the 12 spot that will fit the Giants scheme. Cruz, Randle and one of those 3 guys would give Eli some nice targets to throw to again.
EBF
Footballguy
I've been a fan for a long time, but I'm surprised the hype has reached this level. There aren't too many 5'11" WRs without blazing speed who are dominating in the NFL. I guess you could throw out Randall Cobb as a best-case scenario. There's also Victor Cruz and Antonio Brown. For the most part though, the scoring charts are ruled by taller guys. I think Beckham is a can't-miss prospect, but as a solid complementary guy rather than a dominant #1. Given the number of solid WR2 types in this draft, I don't know that he's going to justify the investment of a mid first rounder.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Greg Jennings made a pretty nice career with nearly the same exact tools.
Jennings:
5'11" 197 4.43/40. 36.5" Vertical, 9'9" Broad.
Beckham
5'11" 198 4.42/40. 38.5" Vertical, 10'2" Broad
Now obviously Jennings couldn't have asked for better QBs up until 2013.
ETA, Guess I should have looked up the thread a little higher. Xue already gave us the Jennings comp.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
1) Agreed.
2) Agreed.
3) Wait, what? If you assume single QB leagues where first QB isn't taken until late first, what else would you spend a mid first on? Even if there are 2-3 RB's that find nice homes and assume Watkins and Evans are off the board, would you take a "potential" guy over a "can't miss", even if his ceiling may be a WR2? That seemingly worked last season if you passed on the safe D. Hopkins option for Patterson but I would imagine that's an outlier?
Faust
MVP
Philadelphia Eagles might be landing spot for Odell Beckham Jr.By Mike Huguenin
College Football 24/7 writer
College Football 24/7 writer
Willie Mays Hayes
Footballguy
I am convinced after watching Beckham's highlights that he is a hybrid of Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey. I watched every college play of Austin and Bailey's and Beckham splits the difference with those guys as far as I'm concerned. Here is some combine comparables:
Beckham | Bailey (body style)
----------------------------------------
5'11 vs. 5'10
198 vs. 193 lbs.
10" vs. 9 7/8" hands
Both are "hands catching WRs" with their big mits
Both were among the premier route runners in their respective draft classes
Beckham | Austin (athleticism)
-----------------------------------------
4.43 vs. 4.34 40 yard dash
122" vs. 120" broad jump
38.5" vs. 32.0" vertical
3.94 vs. 4.01 20-yd shuttle
7 reps vs. 14 reps bench
Both are elite in the return game and are like shifty RBs after the catch
Tavon Austin was always the superior athlete to Stedman Bailey at WVU. However, Bailey was a better overall WR given his mastery of the route tree, how he setup defenders and his great receiving technique. Many of his contested receptions looked almost identical to Bailey if you look at his highlight reel from WVU. Beckham might have the best traits of both these guys. That speaks very well to his prospects in the NFL.
Beckham | Bailey (body style)
----------------------------------------
5'11 vs. 5'10
198 vs. 193 lbs.
10" vs. 9 7/8" hands
Both are "hands catching WRs" with their big mits
Both were among the premier route runners in their respective draft classes
Beckham | Austin (athleticism)
-----------------------------------------
4.43 vs. 4.34 40 yard dash
122" vs. 120" broad jump
38.5" vs. 32.0" vertical
3.94 vs. 4.01 20-yd shuttle
7 reps vs. 14 reps bench
Both are elite in the return game and are like shifty RBs after the catch
Tavon Austin was always the superior athlete to Stedman Bailey at WVU. However, Bailey was a better overall WR given his mastery of the route tree, how he setup defenders and his great receiving technique. Many of his contested receptions looked almost identical to Bailey if you look at his highlight reel from WVU. Beckham might have the best traits of both these guys. That speaks very well to his prospects in the NFL.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I agree completely! He looks effortless like Watkins but actually seems to have better juking ability. He actually plays taller than he lists, imo.
I just watched more tape on OBJ because I seemed to have him ranked lower than most and I came away more impressed than I would have predicted. I still can't rank him much higher than 7 but I guess that just shows how deep this class really is. I'm glad I dug deeper on this guy as I definitely have my ears perked for him now too. I have to see how the NFL draft shakes out, but OBJ looks more fluid/quick/explosive than both Watkins and Cooks, imo and I have Cooks ranked #2 at the moment.
EBF
Footballguy
Definitely agree with that. He's also a lot slower than Cooks and a lot smaller than Sammy.
There's almost always a trade-off.
Nice video on Beckham here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tTGN8OoXKc
