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Politics and War in Ukraine (2 Viewers)

Stealthycat said:
has Putin / Russia / Afghanistan / any country really done anything other than what they wanted to do in the last year ?

serious question  
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How would I know?  We're no longer spending billions in Afganistan and losing Americans every year.

I do know that Biden hasn't "accepted" Putin's word like Trump did on a number of occasions.  I also know that Biden is rebuilding our alliances after Trump did his best to destroy them. 

 
Ukraine President calling out the US specifically for not doing more.

Hey ########, we aren't your bodyguard.   Go ask the EU for help.

 
Witz said:
Thoughts on this situation? What happens if Russia invades? 
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Europe blames the US for not using our taxpayers money, while they(Europe) enjoy a form of socialism that can't protect itself.

Sick of this ####.  Protect yourself.  We are not the world's peacekeepers.

 
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"If Russia is sincere about addressing our respective security concerns through dialogue, the United States and our Allies and partners will continue to engage in good faith," Biden continued. "If instead Russia chooses to walk away from diplomacy and attack Ukraine, Russia will bear the responsibility, and it will face swift and severe consequences."
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I bet Russia is shaking in its shoes !

"This is the largest mobilization of troops in Europe in decades," she continued. "And as we speak Russia is sending even more forces and arms to join them. Russia has already used more than 2,000 rail cars to bring troops and weaponry from across Russia to the Ukrainian border." 
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-warns-russia-of-swift-and-severe-consequences-if-they-walk-away-from-diplomacy-and-attack-ukraine

 
Insein said:
U.S. Dangles Offer to Russia on Missile Checks at Key NATO Bases

"The Biden administration has informed the Kremlin it is willing to discuss giving Russia a way to verify there aren’t offensive Tomahawk cruise missiles stationed at sensitive NATO missile-defense bases in Romania and Poland, according to people familiar with the matter."

I'm sorry, what? 
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Great so putin waits gets rid of tomahawk s and then rolls?   

Biden needs to muscle up, not appease.

 
I don't think this is really hard.   But biden has painted himself into a corner.   The way you check putin is to turn off his cash spicket.  Letting him have that pipeline to Germany was stupid.   

We ramp up production of oil and gas.

Restart keystone and tell him we are gonna open artic drilling.

This Russian  #### will end quick.   It will #### the Iranians too.   Bonus.

 
Insein said:
U.S. Dangles Offer to Russia on Missile Checks at Key NATO Bases

"The Biden administration has informed the Kremlin it is willing to discuss giving Russia a way to verify there aren’t offensive Tomahawk cruise missiles stationed at sensitive NATO missile-defense bases in Romania and Poland, according to people familiar with the matter."

I'm sorry, what? 
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Just so we're clear here, Biden is touting Russia as an enemy but is willing to reveal strategic missile defense Intel to them. And we're ok with that?

 
Lots of chatter that Putin has ordered troops to invade the two eastern areas of Ukraine.

Not being reported by anyone I know is credible yet, but it appears to be legit.  Will post a link if it's picked up by a major news outlet or government statement.

 
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Not that I think this is a good thing or even true, but what if those regions really do want to become part of Russia? Like, what if 65% of the population wishes to trade their Ukrainian passports for Russian ones?

I mean, Ukraine isn't going to give up their territory willfully, right?  So what are the people that want to join Russia to do? What is Russia to do?

#hottake

 
IIRC, in the referendums in 2013(?) the Ukraine-loyalists boycotted the elections because they were a Russian-backed sham, and only around 25% of the population voted (overwhelmingly to leave).

The implication was that even in the "separatist" areas of Ukraine a majority want to be a part of Ukraine, not Russia.

(someone can do my homework for me here, my memory ain't what it used to be)

 
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This sort of thing might be our best hope -- that someone inside Russia manages to derail Putin:

But the big surprise came when Putin quizzed Sergei Naryshkin, head of the SVR, Russia’s foreign intelligence service. Naryshkin advised that threatening to recognize Donetsk and Luhansk would be useful leverage for implementing the 2015 Minsk agreements to settle the conflict in the eastern region. Russia has claimed to support Minsk, but Monday’s recognition of the two breakaway enclaves as independent will probably derail any chance for the agreement. In response to Naryshkin’s answers, Putin got antsy.

What followed was a rare Kremlin moment of quasi-dissent. “Speak clearly, do you support recognition?” demanded Putin. “I will,” answered his spy chief. “You will, or you do?” demanded Putin. When Naryshkin waffled and said he would support “bringing them into Russia,” Putin shot back, “That’s not what we are discussing. Do you support recognizing independence?” To which the vexed spymaster answered, “yes.”

The SVR chief may have been rattled by the astonishing ability of U.S. intelligence to read (and publicize) Russian intelligence plans about Ukraine. Whatever the reason, Max Seddon, Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times who translated the exchange in Twitter posts, noted that the session was “like the finale of the Sopranos.”

White House officials see other signs of dissension within the Russian leadership. Retired generals have criticized the invasion plan. Prominent Russian intellectuals have publicly challenged Putin. And public opinion polls have suggested limited support for war.

Putin tried to woo the public with a solo television performance after the Kremlin meeting. It was a meandering, seemingly unscripted monologue from his office, with Putin sitting at a big desk surrounded by three phones, two computer screens and a potted plant.

Putin sounded like a man trying to sell his country on the need for war. He offered a long, rambling history lesson, the gist of which was that Ukraine had become, in his words, a Western “colony with a puppet regime” that didn’t deserve to be independent of Russia. He even offered a WMD rationale for taking action, repeating Shoigu’s warning that a future Ukraine could obtain nuclear weapons.

The omnipresent chip on Putin’s shoulder has never seemed heavier. “We are being blackmailed, they are threatening us with sanctions,” he said. “A new pretext will always be found or fabricated. Irrespective of the situation in Ukraine.” And why? “To keep Russia behind, to prevent it from developing. … Just because we exist.”

Putin is very far out on a limb with the huge invasion force he has assembled, poised for action. He runs a one-man show in Moscow. In the Ukraine confrontation, anything can happen, but that limb has never looked shakier than it did on Monday.
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