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WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Carter_Can_Fly
- Start date
Basically all of this. On the one hand they probably know better than anyone else what's going on with Sammy's foot... on the other hand the organization has been run by idiots for so long that what they know might be irrelevant.
As a dynasty owner I'm a bit terrified.
But if history is any indicator, whatever the Bills front office decides, you should decide the opposite and you'll generally be in good shape. (L.McCoy seems to be the exception)
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Unless, of course, their medical team holds an actual and legitimate license and they know because they see him every day.
If I were a Watkins owner I'd be selling fast. Can the docs be dead wrong? Sure. I remember docs whiff ingredients on Brees a long time ago but more times than not (much more times), when you see teams make these kinds of decisions it's because they have the inside scoop.
Looking across the room, Percy Harvin is nodding in agreement.
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oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
If he's healthy enough throughout 2017, and if he leaves buffalo in the offseason, his dynasty value could increase dramatically. If he went to Detroit or Indy that would be huge I think. But there are a number of realistic landing spots that I would consider a lateral move. Jets? Rams? Browns? Cardinals? Vikings? Bears? Oh my. Many of the better young QBs already seem to have their WRs (Winston, Carr, Mariota). Philly and KC could be really interesting but they won't have the cap space (I think). But I'm probably looking too far ahead. Just pointing out that being Tyrod's only option isn't the worst fantasy situation out there.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Pretty crazy to see how drastic the differences are based on draft slot:
- Jadeveon Clowney, DE, $13.846MM (Texans): Exercised
- Greg Robinson, OL (Rams), $12.496MM: Declined
- Blake Bortles, QB, (Jaguars), $19.053MM: Exercised
- Sammy Watkins, WR (Bills), $13.258MM: Declined
- Khalil Mack, DE (Raiders), $13.846MM: Exercised
- Jake Matthews, T (Falcons), $12.496MM: Exercised
- Mike Evans, WR (Buccaneers), $13.258MM: Exercised
- Justin Gilbert, CB (Browns): Not applicable due to release
- Anthony Barr, LB (Vikings), $12.306MM: Exercised
- Eric Ebron, TE (Lions), $5.194MM: Exercised
- Taylor Lewan, T (Titans), $9.341MM: Exercised
- Odell Beckham Jr. (Giants), $8.459MM: Exercised
- Aaron Donald, DT (Rams), $6.892MM: Exercised
- Kyle Fuller, CB, (Bears), $8.526MM: Declined
- Ryan Shazier, LB (Steelers), $8.718MM: Exercised
- Zack Martin, G (Cowboys), $9.341MM: Exercised
- C.J. Mosley, LB (Ravens), $8.718MM: Exercised
- Calvin Pryor, S (Jets), $5.597MM: Declined
- Ja’Wuan James, T (Dolphins), $9.341MM: Exercised
- Brandin Cooks, WR (Patriots), $8.459MM: Exercised
- Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, S (Packers), $5.597MM: Exercised
- Johnny Manziel, QB (Browns): Not applicable due to release
- Dee Ford, LB (Chiefs), $8.718MM: Exercised
- Darqueze Dennard, CB (Bengals), $8.526MM: Exercised
- Jason Verrett, CB (Chargers), $8.526MM: Exercised
- Marcus Smith, DE (Eagles), $8.625MM: Declined
- Deone Bucannon, LB (Cardinals), $8.718MM: Exercised
- Kelvin Benjamin, WR (Panthers), $8.459MM: Exercised
- Dominique Easley, DT (Rams): Not applicable due to release
- Jimmie Ward, CB (49ers), $8.526MM: Exercised
- Bradley Roby, CB (Broncos), $8.526MM: Exercised
- Teddy Bridgewater, QB (Vikings), $12.198MM: Declined
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I don't think this is really a big deal when you examine the numbers. If I'm not mistaken the franchise tag is expected to be around $16M for a WR next year. His 5th year option was $13.3M. So for a couple mil they get to hedge and wait to see how Watkins performs (and if he stays healthy) in 2017 before having to make a decision about 2018.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
yep, very smart move by Buffalo. Easily worth the 3 million or so insurance to see how he returns from injury.
zamboni
Footballguy
Well said. I don't see the option decline as an indication that there is real concern about his injury now, but rather his ability to stay healthy going forward and live up to his potential. If Watkins goes off this year, it may cost the Bills big time if they want to sign him long-term (and not use the franchise tag on him), but I guess it's a good problem for team brass have if it comes to that. Of course, I'm giving team brass a lot of credit here.
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Buffalo made the right move here. It is a good problem for the Bills to have should Watkins have a good year let alone great year.
The option is only guaranteed for injury- if he came back and was mediocre they could still cut him with no financial ties afaik. It has to be a major injury as well- it only kicks in if the player is unable to play the following season. I've tried to find more info. on exactly how it works- supposedly if the player is on the roster at the beginning of the football year in March it then becomes fully guaranteed, but I don't know how they would know if they were too injured to play that season in March.
Buffalo and very smart rarely belong in the same sentence, and this is no different- it's a gamble IMO.
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Only 9 players out of 32 did not get their option exercised, 2 of those are already out of the NFL (Gilbert & Manziel), 1 was cut last year due to injuries (Dominique Easley), 3 have been unmitigated busts (Greg Robinson, Calvin Pryor, Marcus Smith), 2 have had career threatening injuries (Kyle Fuller, Teddy Bridgewater) and 1 is Sammy Watkins.
IMO, this is not a good sign for his health at all, especially when you factor in how much the Bills spent to acquire him. But as others have said, it is the Bills so they may not exactly be making the best of decisions.
IMO, this is not a good sign for his health at all, especially when you factor in how much the Bills spent to acquire him. But as others have said, it is the Bills so they may not exactly be making the best of decisions.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Congrats to Sammy Watkins on taking the first step towards becoming a steal for the New England Patriots.
massraider
Footballguy
The larger gamble is potentially having to pay someone with a bad foot 13 million.
You are incorrect on your understanding of the injury guarantee. It is not for season-ending injury, only. See Colin Kaepernick.
It actually is. See Robert Griffin.massraider said:
Neither Griffin nor Kaep were played during their pre-option season, but it was made clear in local media here in DC that the guarantee would only kick in if Griffin couldn't pass a physical at the start of the league year in March.
Either player couod have sprained an MCL or something, recovered and been cut without guaranteed money. But if they instead tore an ACL and weren't ready by March, the teams would have been on the hook for the large figure of the contract option.
It's possible that I'm incorrect, but it certainly isn't because of the Kaepernick situation- he wasn't on his rookie contract, he had signed an extension (which included injury guarantees). The 5th year option was never even a possibility considering he wasn't drafted in the 1st round...massraider said:
massraider
Footballguy
The guarantee is the same, for injury.
Larger point is it's a gamble of three mill extra they have to pay if he's great,vs. 13-mill they have to pay if he is damaged goods.
How is what they are doing more of a gamble? Rhetorical question, it's not.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Do you know this for sure? One is a rule written into the CBA, the other is something negotiated between parties, so I doubt they're the same exact thing.
That isn't the only gamble- they'd lose the ability to use the franchise tag on someone else, it would dramatically increase the cost to tag him in 2019, it would increase the odds of a holdout, etc.
Your question isn't rhetorical, it's moot- I didn't say it's more of a gamble, it's a gamble either way.
massraider
Footballguy
Then why say this:
The implication of this is that it's a gamble what they are doing, and they could avoid a gamble by doing something different.
I must've misunderstood your original post.
The implication is pretty much exactly what I wrote- I disagree that declining the option was "very smart" based on what we know. IMO it's a gamble could work out for them or backfire, just like picking it up would have been. The specifics of the injury guarantee make a big difference- I don't recall this guarantee clause ever having been paid out.
Shariff Floyd with the Vikings is the only one I have ever heard of. They picked up his 5th year option last year. He had knee surgery for his knee in September and there were complications that caused nerve damage and he's in danger of never playing again.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It remains to be seen if Floyd will be able to play this season or not. It doesn't look good though.They pay him regardless of if he can play.
So if Watkins were injured at some point this season, and did not recover from that injury before the deadline (March sometime I think) then the 5th year option becomes guaranteed.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
There could always be something we don't hear/haven't heard about too. I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins is upset with the Bills' medical staff, or some other kind of dispute that both Watkins and the team are too professional to leak to the media...
Of course it could also just be avoiding risk, but that seems penny wise and pound foolish unless they know something we don't. Lots of players have had these injuries and come back later on with no problems...
Of course it could also just be avoiding risk, but that seems penny wise and pound foolish unless they know something we don't. Lots of players have had these injuries and come back later on with no problems...
dipandglide
Footballguy
This is Sammy's 3rd coach, right? That whole franchise is a mess, i'd love to see him get out of town after this year.
matuski
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Stud when on the field. Injuries and being drafted by one of the worst franchises in the NFL has hurt the beginning of his career. I am buying where I can because if healthy his situation can only improve with time.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Sammy doesn't seem to understand math very well:
A pretty hilarious response from a fan:
NBA plays more games and splits the money amongst about 80% fewer players than the NFL. Of COURSE they're going to get paid way more.
I think he's definitely going to be gone from Buffalo after this year and some team is going to vastly overpay for a guy that can't stay healthy.
A pretty hilarious response from a fan:
NBA plays more games and splits the money amongst about 80% fewer players than the NFL. Of COURSE they're going to get paid way more.
I think he's definitely going to be gone from Buffalo after this year and some team is going to vastly overpay for a guy that can't stay healthy.
This is turning into an annual thing when NBA FA opens up and NFL players eyes bug out at the massive contracts.
While it's true what you say on NBA teams having more games and far less of a pie to split up I still must contend Sammy and NFL players have a major point however on their pay and that point is as a percentage of total revenue NBA players are getting a bigger piece of the pie than NFL players, I think around 3-4% more in total revenue. Considering it's the most popular sport, the most violent with greater chance of long term negative health consequences, in general offers less in off the field endorsements than NBA players I feel like Sammy and all NFL players have a legitimate gripe on why their union can't come up with a better deal for them.
That being said there is a major flaw in the NFL players argument and it's not NBA games played or paying less players but leverage associated with fact that the NBA is more of a players league than the NFL.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
There is certainly an argument to be made that NFL players deserve a larger piece of the pie than they're getting. (Of course there are also counter-arguments like the cost of NFL franchises versus NBA, costs of an NFL stadium versus NBA arena, etc) but it's certainly a fair argument.
But I seriously doubt that Watkins would be satisfied with a 3-4% increase. He simply doesn't understand that there is about twice as much money available per player in the NBA versus in the NFL. And because of how the two cap systems work, a whole lot of mid-level to mediocre NBA players are going to make a lot of money.
The only way to get the same amount of money per player in the NFL, would be for the players to receive every single dollar of revenue.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Probably unlikely, just curious is Watkins will play for the Rams tonight?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah thats why I decided to ask, in the off chance that he actually might play in 2 games in the same week due to the trade.
Spookytooth
Footballguy
Sammy won people leagues two or three years ago. He is a high end #2wr at worst.
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I don't see how anyone can give up on Goff completely after one season with Jeff Fisher.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
It also depends on how you measure the damage of a wasted early/mid round draft pick.
