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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (1 Viewer)

Yankee23Fan said:
This has been a very interesting calendar year so far.  The culmination of events that business and lawyer life have been through have nudged me to listen to some people telling me what my true talents are.  It might end up that they are not in my current practice in its current form.  Don't know if I necessarily agree, but the people I take advice from I trust with my life and so with them as backdrop and somewhat for gits and shiggles I did a small search for open positions that fit what I think is a better calling for me at this stage in my life.

And in about 10 seconds of searching online half heartedly, I found a listing for what I would consider pretty dang close to my dream job within the legal field.  In the sense that if I could literally write a job description for what I would be willing to give up private practice and having no boss for, I would have written this posting almost word for word.  

I don't take back anything I have said about going out on my own.  It's still the best professional thing I've ever done.  But I find myself more and more drained too much at the end of the day and not giving my family my all, something that is far more important to me than anything else.  And so, with all that as backdrop, I applied.  It might, and probably will, go nowhere.  It's a plumb opening that you would stupid not to want if you practiced in this state.  And the nature of the job requires me to not say anything about the job at all, so no specifics.

It's been an interesting weekend now because of it.  This is the first time since I went out on my own that I am giving any credence at all to changing that dynamic.  Still don't want to.  But if by some small chance I get called for an interview on this thing, and then by a smaller chance if I get an offer.  At this moment, right now, I think I'd be a moron of titanic proportions to not take it and run.  Probably all much ado about nothing though.  Still, the thought of doing away with some of the daily crap I deal with.......... it sounds good.
GL, yankee! 

 
Crazy situation yesterday on a pretty high-level criminal case that still has me somewhat baffled.  Need to keep this pretty vague so just assume the case involves two very serious counts and a third not-so-serious count but that carries with it a pretty ugly collateral consequence.  I get hired on the case pretty late in the game (about a month before the first trial setting).  Prior to my hiring appointed counsel had received a plea offer of X (which calls for less incarceration than likely would happen if there's a guilty verdict at trial, but required said collateral consequence).  Prosecutor on the case is a pretty colorful, older guy who could have retired a couple of years ago.  He's pretty off the cuff so the trick is catching him in person and in a good mood and he'll usually work with you.  I do that in this case and negotiate what we'll call plea agreement Y (which is <X and eliminates the collateral consequence).  It's a good deal and I look like a rockstar. We set a hearing to take the plea (this is a couple weeks ago).  At the hearing the prosecutor presents the plea which has our correctly negotiated terms but requires my client to plead to a charge that, even though the plea affirmatively says my client doesn't have to suffer the collateral consequence, statutorily requires the consequence to happen administratively regardless of what's in the plea (making the agreement as it's written "illegal").  I explain this to prosecutor and suggest the easy fix (which I was pretty surprised he didn't know about, since this type of plea has been given by his office a number of times prior).  We continue the hearing to figure it out and write the corrected one. 

At next hearing (a couple days later) he comes in with plea agreement Z (which gives us the benefit on the collateral consequence but that increases prison time by 240%).  My client and I are basically like WTF and I learn that prosecutor has been essentially forced to retire.  Client rejects plea and I make record indicating what had happened.  Prosecutor says that now that he has to retire, he doesn't want to do the deal because this would be his last trial and he'd like to go out beating my office (we have beaten him something like three trials in a row, and one of those was a high profile case that didn't make this guy look good in the media).  Dismayed, I ask for another court date so that my client can now consider offer Z (which is way worse but still has some benefit). I no longer look like a rockstar. 

A couple days later, after I had send a correspondence asking for deal Y to be honored, prosecutor tells me his boss has stripped his ability to negotiate and to go through him. I contact his boss and ask for deal Y.  I don't hear anything but a few days later deal X is sent to my office (which I didn't ask for or have authorization to accept or anything).   At this point I've never seen anything like this.  Client is naturally irate and is now approaching case on "principle" instead of with a calm, logical mind. 

Yesterday is the last hearing before trial.  I confirm one last time that, to my shock, the state will not honor the deal we made (deal Y).  Client rejects offers X and Z.  I make lengthy record.  In response, prosecutor alleges that victim changed victim's mind but also admits on the record that he/prosecutor has a "vendetta" against my office, wants to beat us in a trial, and complains about some tactic used by a different lawyer in my office in a recent prior trial (which had nothing to do with me or my client).  The judge asks the prosecutor if he's aware that the root word of "vendetta" is "vindictive."  Prosecutor agrees but says the vendetta is against defense counsel's firm and not defendant or defense counsel himself. 

:loco:

 
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Isn't he basically setting you up with a lot of appeal ammo? That is some seriously screwed up stuff.
Maybe.  There's no guaranteed "right" to a plea deal, so I suppose there's theoretically nothing unlawful per se when the state backs out of a deal, it's just not something I've ever seen before, at least in this context.  I remember circumstances where either the state found out some stuff where had they known they wouldn't have made the initial offer, or even experienced a prosecutor leaving an offer and basically sending out super sweetheart deals to close his cases, but even in those circumstances there's usually a "this deal is too good, your client has until Friday to take this deal or it's pulled" scenario.  

 We have a procedural rule as well as some caselaw which essentially prevents the state from either withholding evidence from a defendant until after a plea offer is rejected or from punishing a defendant in some way (e.g. adding charges, increasing the charges, filing aggravators) for rejecting a plea.   

 
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Maybe.  There's no guaranteed "right" to a plea deal, so I suppose there's theoretically nothing unlawful per se when the state backs out of a deal, it's just not something I've ever seen before, at least in this context.  I remember circumstances where either the state found out some stuff where had they known they wouldn't have made the initial offer, or even experienced a prosecutor leaving an offer and basically sending out super sweetheart deals to close his cases, but even in those circumstances there's usually a "this deal is too good, your client has until Friday to take this deal or it's pulled" scenario.  

 We have a procedural rule as well as some caselaw which essentially prevents the state from either withholding evidence from a defendant until after a plea offer is rejected or from punishing a defendant in some way (e.g. adding charges, increasing the charges, filing aggravators) for rejecting a plea.   
I meant more the we want to prosecute as revenge angle.

 
BigLaw Partner Confused for Ryan Lochte's Attorney

By Casey C. Sullivan, Esq. on August 23, 2016 10:57 AM

Jeffrey Ostrow, a partner at Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, has some pretty big name clients. Intel comes to him for legal advice, as do Marvell, Spotify, and Cisco. But as the chair of Simpson's IP practice, his work doesn't usually get him invited onto the evening news.

So imagine Ostrow's surprise when his inbox was suddenly inundated with invitations to appear on NBC News, NPR, and CNN. Suddenly, everyone thought he was representing Ryan Lochte.

This Is Why We Use Middle Initials

Of course, Jeffrey Ostrow was representing Ryan Lochte, the American Olympic swimmer who landed in a bit of Brazilian legal trouble after he "over-exaggerated that [fictitious] story" about being robbed in Rio. But Lochte's lawyer is Jeffrey M. Ostrow, of Kopelowitz Ostrow in Florida, not Jeffrey E. Ostrow, the IP partner at Simpson Thacher.

Not that journalists could tell the difference. According to the AmLaw Litigation Daily, Lochte's lawyer usually appears in print as just "Jeffrey Ostrow." And when you google that name, Simpson's Ostrow is the first name to pop up, leading to the confusion. The first email came last Wednesday afternoon, according to Litigation Daily:

Hi Jeff, I'm a producer for Greta Van Susteren's show on the Fox News Channel. I'm reaching out to see if you might be interested in joining Greta tonight live during the 7pm ET hour for an interview ... Greta is an attorney by trade, so I can assure you that this would be very straightforward.

The Wall Street Journal, NPR, and NBC soon followed. Simpson's Ostrow was even invited to appear on Anderson Cooper's AC360, live on primetime.

Not Just the Media

That wasn't the end of it. Ostrow was also suddenly the recipient of plenty of nasty emails and voicemails from strangers, wanting to let him know just what they thought of his non-client, Lochte. While Ostrow says he directed reporters to the correct Jeffrey Ostrow, he mostly ignored the irate messages from the general public.

It wasn't just the media who was confused by the Ostrows' similar names. "When my brother was confused, I knew I had a problem," Ostrow says.
Sincerely,

Christo X. Christo

http://blogs.findlaw.com/greedy_associates/2016/08/biglaw-partner-confused-for-ryan-lochtes-attorney.html?DCMP=CCX-FBLP

 
Just got word that a client died.  Client suffered way way too much and was way way too young.  There isn't enough alcohol in my house for when I get home.  ****.

 
BigLaw guys, I don't know how you do/did it.  The past four days pretty much every moment I've been awake I've been in the office (with one night where I actually slept in the office).  I estimate in four days I've worked about 58 hours, and have gone Otis no-lunch for all days but one.  I made great money but I'm tired, lethargic, and pretty much hate life right now. Couldn't imagine this carrying through for more than a week or two at a time.  How'd you do it? 

 
Just a ball park figure what does a public defender make? 5 years experience.  Lets say in Phoenix perhaps.
Ballpark we'll say 55k/yr. plus decent benefits. 

ETA: The experience probably doesn't do much at five years.  Generally an attorney, at least with Maricopa County PDO, is going to come in at entry level.  A more seasoned attorney may be able to come in as a supervisor or a death penalty guy and make much more, but I doubt five years qualifies.  

 
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Ballpark we'll say 55k/yr. plus decent benefits. 

ETA: The experience probably doesn't do much at five years.  Generally an attorney, at least with Maricopa County PDO, is going to come in at entry level.  A more seasoned attorney may be able to come in as a supervisor or a death penalty guy and make much more, but I doubt five years qualifies.  
Your kidding me? 55k is it?  Wow

 
Wooderson said:
Seems like little pay for the amount of schooling. I was way off on what I assumed. 
You and everybody else who always assumed I was loaded because I was a lawyer. Reality, when you subtract my student loans, my buddies working labor jobs with just a high school diploma were just as well off as I was. 

 
I'm sorry.  Client suicides suck.
Really sucks. Sorry to hear it.

Witness I prepped and defended in a deposition in a US embassy outside the country last week died this weekend.  FIshing accident over the weekend, drowned in a river.  Good guy, family man, just past 40 years old, was really teachable and a great witness.  He was all lit up with excitement and gratitude after everyone in his company was patting him on the back after his depo.  

 
BigLaw guys, I don't know how you do/did it.  The past four days pretty much every moment I've been awake I've been in the office (with one night where I actually slept in the office).  I estimate in four days I've worked about 58 hours, and have gone Otis no-lunch for all days but one.  I made great money but I'm tired, lethargic, and pretty much hate life right now. Couldn't imagine this carrying through for more than a week or two at a time.  How'd you do it? 
Lately I've been working on a major case with a Japanese client that has involved spending a bunch of time and, regardiless of whether I'm in Tokyo or New York, working what seems like 24 hour days.  My colleagues, in Japan and NY, all wonder how I'm sending e-mails at ungodly hours (I wake up a couple of hours into the night, grab my iPhone, and start responding to e-mails, and then hours just pass...).  My wife jokes that I work two shifts.  My hours outstrip just about every other partner in my BigLaw Firm, and most associates too.  I'd been a walking zombie for weeks.  I don't know why we do it either, Woz.  It draws and sucks you in.  I was never a lawyer type.  Thought lawyers were totally stiffs, dorks and nerds.  Hated reading and writing.  But I guess was a bit of a people pleaser.  Years later I find myself with the same law firm for 15 years grinding my way up the partner cut sheet and caring about things that never, ever before interested me.  It can suck you in, grab hold of you, and sap your soul.  Don't get me wrong.  In part I enjoy my work.  I've grown to enjoy it too much.  And as much as I hate firm politics, I've become accustomed to them.  And the billable hour and skipped lunch have become badges of honor.  Thing is, I realize I'm a sucker.  I see my partners in other offices kicking back, billing 500 less hours per year on average, not stressing too much about anything, as I walk around like a basketcase worried about each and every bit of minutiae, all the while waiting for The Big Mistake that will result in the other shoe dropping, my career ending, and me selling the house and uprooting my family.  

It's a form of mental illness, I have no doubt.  But it's what I've got.  So I make do.   

Truth is, the last few years have been an extraordinarily busy time, and I'm certain that in 6 months or a year things will quiet and I'll be wondering where my next billable hours will come from.  Or so I tell myself.  And when that happens, I'll try not to be too wedded to this current lifestyle; I'll try to unwind a bit and settle into a groove that allows me more time with my family and maybe just maybe the gym or a hobby or two.  Or hell, just less stress.  A stroll down the street on a sunny Manhattan day as opposed to a targeted, purpose-driven gallop between annoying tourists and other people who really just reduce to obstacles in the way of me making my fastest possible route to the office or to the train home.

Again, I don't know how I got here.  And I've become accustomed enough to the perks that I'm not ready to leave here.  So I'll just keep on keepin' on.  

Oats

(Ps... Otis kid #3 arrives some time in the next week.... I may take a week of paternity leave -- other folks all seem to take several weeks but, again, I'm a sick man).

 
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On the bright side, today's e-mail traffic has subsided, it's a relatively quiet evening at work, at I'm on the train home with a Corona in my hand.  I'll be home by 8 and can pour another drink, catch up with my wife, and take a breath.  These moments are fewer and further between than ever before, but I'll say that I've learned to milk them for every last ounce they're worth.  

 
I had a judge today not allow a printout of a text message into evidence because my client couldn't testify about the particular text application and because the page had a header from her e-mail, which is how she printed it. 

Then she allowed the opposing party to testify about texts he claims he made to my client but could not produce a copy of because that phone was broken.

I then tried to get my client's phone into evidence to prove that he did not send my client the text messages. But the judge disallowed it.

Then in her oral ruling, the judge stated she found the other guys testimony about the non-existent texts to be credible.

:loco:

 
Again, I don't know how I got here.  And I've become accustomed enough to the perks that I'm not ready to leave here.  So I'll just keep on keepin' on.  

Oats

(Ps... Otis kid #3 arrives some time in the next week.... I may take a week of paternity leave -- other folks all seem to take several weeks but, again, I'm a sick man).
Congrats on the new addition to the family. Best wishes to all.

If I may. Take the time if you can get it. I don't imagine on your deathbed you'll regret making those memories with your kids and wife or give a crap about some billable hours.  I have a friend that runs a small business. It pretty much consumes him 7 days a week. Has for years. Probably always will. It's already cost him the childhoods of his kids. It's cost him a certain level of closeness. He hasn't seemed to seen it yet. Or maybe he has and that explains some of the anger issues. But I think you're pretty self aware. Don't let them get away from you. As a guy who didn't get the chance I really hate to see people let theirs go by.

 
I had a judge today not allow a printout of a text message into evidence because my client couldn't testify about the particular text application and because the page had a header from her e-mail, which is how she printed it. 

Then she allowed the opposing party to testify about texts he claims he made to my client but could not produce a copy of because that phone was broken.

I then tried to get my client's phone into evidence to prove that he did not send my client the text messages. But the judge disallowed it.

Then in her oral ruling, the judge stated she found the other guys testimony about the non-existent texts to be credible.

:loco:
that drives me crazy, but the whole having your secretary or client's name on a printed out text or email because it came from their email inbox comes up a lot.   I see more and more judges not allowing it, or at least requiring additional authentication about how the document is generated.

 
I swear I posted about this last year or the year before, but can't find it.  Every year an old client of the firm comes in and has us fill out his paperwork to show he hasn't worked in the last year and is still entitled to LHWCA benefits.  He can't read or write and we refuse to accept any money from him because he's delightful and just needs help filling out a 1-page thing.  So instead he brings in huge amounts of food and booze for us.  Today was the day this year.  Two huge trays of cookies, three giant bottles of hard liquor, a magnum of wine, and an entire sheet cake.

My end of the year is going to suck when he dies.  

 
I swear I posted about this last year or the year before, but can't find it.  Every year an old client of the firm comes in and has us fill out his paperwork to show he hasn't worked in the last year and is still entitled to LHWCA benefits.  He can't read or write and we refuse to accept any money from him because he's delightful and just needs help filling out a 1-page thing.  So instead he brings in huge amounts of food and booze for us.  Today was the day this year.  Two huge trays of cookies, three giant bottles of hard liquor, a magnum of wine, and an entire sheet cake.

My end of the year is going to suck when he dies.  
GB clients who shop at Costco. 

 
Its awesome being back in private practice.

defense lawyer: "blah blah frivolous sanctions no merit frivolous counterclaim frivolous motion to dismiss no claim [offers $350k] frivolous dismiss meritless blah blah"

me: "can we stop with the frivolous claim stuff since you just offered $350k before discovery?"

 
Ok, so I can't be the only one that is getting caught in conversations with judges and adversaries about this election, right?  Part of me feels like a child in adult meeting in grade school.  I just nod and look like I'm paying attention but I want to punch everyone in the room when they do this.

 
Ok, so I can't be the only one that is getting caught in conversations with judges and adversaries about this election, right?  Part of me feels like a child in adult meeting in grade school.  I just nod and look like I'm paying attention but I want to punch everyone in the room when they do this.
I feel for you, but come down and have the same conversations with judges and lawyers in rural Louisiana. It's an experience.

 
Congratulations!  Don't forget to have your surgery scheduled asap to have your heart replaced with a cold stone.
Thanks : ) (you too Yankee23Fan.) They won't let me set a date until some old dude waves his hand over me while saying some magic words in January.

 
Me having a conversation with my 16 year old last week, talking about plans, and dreams, and life-callings:  

Me:  "Life is funny, buddy.  There are just so many things that affect where we end up.  A couple of things had gone just a little differently, a missed assignment here, a too-late-out drinking there, a missed connection or a few wrong words, or one or two different decisions, and my life would be completely different.  Instead of a lawyer, I'd be a laborer, or painter, a teacher, or a fireman.  

Boy: "Wow.  That would be so . . . ." 

We both answered at the same time: 

Boy: "weird?"

Me: "Awesome."

 
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