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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (1 Viewer)

Parents are having some health issues and I'll be traveling next week to help sort things out for them with an attorney. Trying to keep some stress away from my father who is going through a lot. I have 2 things to discuss with the attorney.

1) Estate planning - making sure any t's are crossed and i's are dotted. So far, he doesn't have anything prepared in case he passes. He assumes that everything would automatically transfer to my Mom (other than an investment account, which has specific beneficiaries), is that generally true? This is in Virginia. Mainly talking about a few bank accounts and investments, but also...

2) My Dad is in an LLC/Partnership apartment management business with my uncle. The partnership agreement does not specifically cover transfer of ownership of his interest in the business upon passing. Is this something that automatically passes to my mother as well, or do we need documents to explicitly state that? I also want to discuss tax implications with the attorney, as I know things can get a little tricky when transferring business interests upon passing.

If possible, I'd like to get a general idea of what to expect on this visit so I can come prepared. Any info. is appreciated!

 
Warrior said:
Parents are having some health issues and I'll be traveling next week to help sort things out for them with an attorney. Trying to keep some stress away from my father who is going through a lot. I have 2 things to discuss with the attorney.

1) Estate planning - making sure any t's are crossed and i's are dotted. So far, he doesn't have anything prepared in case he passes. He assumes that everything would automatically transfer to my Mom (other than an investment account, which has specific beneficiaries), is that generally true? This is in Virginia. Mainly talking about a few bank accounts and investments, but also...

2) My Dad is in an LLC/Partnership apartment management business with my uncle. The partnership agreement does not specifically cover transfer of ownership of his interest in the business upon passing. Is this something that automatically passes to my mother as well, or do we need documents to explicitly state that? I also want to discuss tax implications with the attorney, as I know things can get a little tricky when transferring business interests upon passing.

If possible, I'd like to get a general idea of what to expect on this visit so I can come prepared. Any info. is appreciated!
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You need to discuss a durable power of attorney for both financial and health care issues.   

The attorney is going to want at least a summary of all of the assets and how any real property is titled.   There are mechanisms where the property will transfer automatically; others will have to go through probate.   Where possible, try to avoid probate.   

It can be a big difference if it's an LLC or a partnership.   If your uncle and dad get along, they should amend the operating agreement to address these issues.

 
If you are going to choose to be an insurance defense lawyer for a career, for god's sake learn how to write a settlement agreement.  You can't cut and paste a release from a $10,000 personal injury case and present it as a settlement in a $3 million complex litigation involving 20 parties and three insurers.   And if you're going to do some stupid #### like that, you better not be 3 days past the deadline to have it written before you present it.   

 
Henry Ford said:
Can we safely assume that the potential value of these benefits runs into the mid-to-high six figures?
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Maybe...Maybe not.  Dad is 87.  He could pass in 5 weeks or 5 years.  Who really knows?  So, it also has the potential to be zero, I suppose.

 
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Yankee23Fan said:
Wouldn't be out of the range of normal for New Jersey depending on the facts of everything.  Medicaid planning can be complicated and time consuming.
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Henry Ford said:
Yeah, I didn't get an answer about dollar value, but as long as the benefits are potentially worth a good 25-30x what he's being charged I think it's reasonable.
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I was genuinely asking, because I have no idea.  This is all new to me and I never did any price comparison shopping.  My gut feel was that it seemed kind of high, but I was already knee deep and wasn't going to change course.  She could have told me $10k or $5k and I still wouldn't have known any different, so I thought I'd ask those with some insight.

 
Galileo said:
I was genuinely asking, because I have no idea.  This is all new to me and I never did any price comparison shopping.  My gut feel was that it seemed kind of high, but I was already knee deep and wasn't going to change course.  She could have told me $10k or $5k and I still wouldn't have known any different, so I thought I'd ask those with some insight.
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I think you’re right to ask.  My question was because if we were talking about benefits of $250/$300 a month that wouldn’t necessarily be worth it, but for a potentially big amount of money worth of benefits, it seems reasonable. 

 
-fish- said:
You need to discuss a durable power of attorney for both financial and health care issues.   

The attorney is going to want at least a summary of all of the assets and how any real property is titled.   There are mechanisms where the property will transfer automatically; others will have to go through probate.   Where possible, try to avoid probate.   

It can be a big difference if it's an LLC or a partnership.   If your uncle and dad get along, they should amend the operating agreement to address these issues.
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Thanks, we will prepare and bring a summary of the assets and how any property is titled. I've also been looking into irrevocable trusts as a way to to avoid probate. I'm trying to do as much research on my own as possible to help out my parents who have a lot on their minds. 

It looks like their apartment business is set up as a LLC (previously was a Partnership, changed about 10 years ago). I'll try to keep this short, but some things have transpired over the past 24 hours and the situation is getting messy. There have been some disagreements that escalated to the level of 'lawyer up'. These are the stereotypical crazy back-woods cousins that have descended upon my Uncle like vultures and seem determined to cause as much drama as possible. They want the agreement amended to include a number of ridiculous, one - sided clauses that directly benefit them and, for the lack of a better word, screw my parents. We made what seemed to be a very reasonable and well thought out suggestion to go our own ways and the #%&@ hit the fan, so to say. 

At this point, with the stress this is causing to my Dad, who is in serious medical condition, we are looking hard at options that can remove us from the business, ideally separating and continuing ownership apart from our extended family. Problem is - there is nothing in the agreement about dissolution by choice, only triggered by the death of my Dad or his brother. 

We plan on speaking directly with the other party in person to attempt to de-escalate, since it would be beneficial to everyone to settle this out of court, especially to my Dad who is in bad health. With that said, we will try everything but I don't see this going well. I'm hoping we have some leverage when it comes to dissolution, since that may be the only way out of this drama for my parents. 

 
bostonfred said:
https://www.techspot.com/news/77189-machine-learning-algorithm-beats-20-lawyers-nda-legal.html

Interested to hear your guys thoughts on this
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My other half negotiates and drafts NDAs, among other things, for a large professional  services firm. She says their AI group is working to replace her with a computer but they're currently so far off the mark she's not concerned at all. My company is developing a legal drafting assistant but nothing that could replace lawyers.

 
Warrior said:
I'm hoping we have some leverage when it comes to dissolution, since that may be the only way out of this drama for my parents. 
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Upon re-read number 12 of the agreement, there does seem to be a clause that allows either of them to dissolve. There are many parts of the contract that are very concerning and worrisome, essentially giving complete authority to both of them to do anything under the sun they please, and if things don't go well in the coming days, it might serve us best to formally dissolve, as they are essentially in full control of the business at the moment with my Dad laid up. It's hard to tell what they will do with the check book. 

 
Has anyone dealt with a copyright troll?  My favorite client, a small business owner, was using an image on his website that it seems was copyrighted.  He found it innocently on Flikr, using the Google filter "labeled for reuse" and it does not have a (c) or any other warning. Lawyer is demanding $10k.  We took it down and he was able to replace it with a more useful image for his business, for a one-time fee of about $10.  This lawyer has written two of the most ridiculously pretentious letters I've seen in 20+ years of practice - absolute pompous douchenozzle.  TIA

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Has anyone dealt with a copyright troll?  My favorite client, a small business owner, was using an image on his website that it seems was copyrighted.  He found it innocently on Flikr, using the Google filter "labeled for reuse" and it does not have a (c) or any other warning. Lawyer is demanding $10k.  We took it down and he was able to replace it with a more useful image for his business, for a one-time fee of about $10.  This lawyer has written two of the most ridiculously pretentious letters I've seen in 20+ years of practice - absolute pompous douchenozzle.  TIA
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Doesn't Oat do IP?

My brother is a trademark/copyright/patent guy if you have a specific question.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
An NDA is about the most basic and common document they could have picked.  When I worked in the legal dept for a small company ($200m), we probably got about 5 a week or so on average.  I would be interested in seeing the output from this AI program. A professional services firm is going to have totally different concerns than a health care company when it comes to an NDA.  A heavy industry company, tech company, food industry, etc. will all have significantly different issues and concerns they are looking for in an NDA.  What might be a major concern for one company might be a non-issue for another.  For my company, our risks and confidentiality concerns often also depended on the nature of the particular job we were doing as to what was important and what we could let slide in an NDA.  There were very few across-the-board rules.  And again, that is probably the most basic, routine document we regularly reviewed.  It was busy work, but there was an important component to it that required personal attention, knowledge of our company, its services, its clients, culture and risks, and often needed some negotiation.  When we're at the front end of an engagement, the last thing our biz dep guys needed was sending a client the wrong message before we'd even signed up an engagement contract.
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In the end, an NDA is really pretty simple.  I could write one in two words. 

“stays here”

I can also give you the abbreviated version at half the price

 “$tfu”

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Has anyone dealt with a copyright troll?  My favorite client, a small business owner, was using an image on his website that it seems was copyrighted.  He found it innocently on Flikr, using the Google filter "labeled for reuse" and it does not have a (c) or any other warning. Lawyer is demanding $10k.  We took it down and he was able to replace it with a more useful image for his business, for a one-time fee of about $10.  This lawyer has written two of the most ridiculously pretentious letters I've seen in 20+ years of practice - absolute pompous douchenozzle.  TIA
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That’s a letter you shred. He gonna sue you on a questionable claim with a value of $10k?  How many hours of his time would it take to collect that?

Seriously though, even on patent troll claims demanding $500k or 1MM, I often suggest to clients to slow play a response, and sometimes don’t respond at all until a second or third letter. Chances are 100 other companies got the same letter, and he’ll pay more attention to whatever shiny object is responding. Eventually though it is a good idea to respond with a letter informing him we gave his claim serious consideration, his claim is garbage, and pound sand, good day sir. Just in case you end up in a trial, so you at least have a piece of paper that shows you didn’t ignore it completely. Juries hate especially when big companies ignore the little guys. 

But for $10k?  Eesh. 

 
I have finally been authorized to take the oath for admission to the CA Bar. School lost transcript request somehow so had to get one re-sent, as well as me slacking and not taking MPRE until August of this year and not doing my moral character application until the summer began.

Planning to just go take oath in front of a notary, rather than go to one of the ceremonies or find time with a judge (none of whom do I know). Any regrets I may have doing this rather than going through ceremony? Not a big pomp and circumstance guy, and I'll be super pleased just to get the certificate of admission in the mail when it comes.

Any thoughts on going inactive immediately? I'm not practicing, and likely won't. I took a job as a consultant.

 
Instinctive said:
I have finally been authorized to take the oath for admission to the CA Bar. School lost transcript request somehow so had to get one re-sent, as well as me slacking and not taking MPRE until August of this year and not doing my moral character application until the summer began.

Planning to just go take oath in front of a notary, rather than go to one of the ceremonies or find time with a judge (none of whom do I know). Any regrets I may have doing this rather than going through ceremony? Not a big pomp and circumstance guy, and I'll be super pleased just to get the certificate of admission in the mail when it comes.

Any thoughts on going inactive immediately? I'm not practicing, and likely won't. I took a job as a consultant.
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If you're not going to actively practice, just get sworn in by a notary.   The mass swearing-in ceremonies are stupid unless you're looking to go to a cocktail reception and try to hook up with a newly-admitted lawyer afterward.

If you choose a judge to swear you in, they'll remember you.   If you were practicing and intended to be in court a lot, it can help.   After I'd been practicing for a while, I got sworn in to Washington by a California judge who I appeared before regularly.   He was honored by the request and we had a nice conversation in his chambers.   A judge will give you a little more latitude if they know who you are.   

I'd go inactive immediately if you're not going to practice.  

 
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Sometimes this is an incredibly difficult, strange profession where achievement can seem rather hollow. 

Today, consistent with an unexplainable pattern of achieving incredibly favorable results for clients charged with serious sex crimes (whether by way of an acquittal at trial or a favorable plea agreement), I obtained, after hundreds of hours of work and the combination of a well-crafted and argued motion to suppress as well as knowing the opposing counsel/prosecutor well enough to time a counter-offer offer at the precise moment in the case which significantly limited my client's exposure, an outcome so favorable that it would have seemed impossible at the case's inception. The case is high-profile, which means I'll be even more solicited as "the guy" in my jurisdiction for murders and very serious sex crimes, and the named partners at my firm couldn't be happier with me.

However, today, because of my work, a victim of sexual abuse suffered an emotional break down in court and had to be essentially carried out of the room after she mustered all the energy she could to tell her story - only to hear that my legal arguments overcame her emotional outcry. Her supporters and a few other onlookers shot me looks of pure hate as if I had committed the actions alleged in the indictment myself. While I know that I, of course, didn't commit those actions and I merely did my job well within the procedural and ethical rules of my jurisdiction, I can't help but wonder if I just silenced some other victim of abuse from coming forward.   And, if so, how can I not feel terrible about that?

But I can't really think about this empirical question because, at 10 PM after working since 6:30 AM, I still have to respond to few more emails as efficiently as possible so I can get to bed and wake up tomorrow to do the work necessary to repeat what I did today. 

 
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Zow said:
Sometimes this is an incredibly difficult, strange profession where achievement can seem rather hollow. 

Today, consistent with an unexplainable pattern of achieving incredibly favorable results for clients charged with serious sex crimes (whether by way of an acquittal at trial or a favorable plea agreement), I obtained, after hundreds of hours of work and the combination of a well-crafted and argued motion to suppress as well as knowing the opposing counsel/prosecutor well enough to time a counter-offer offer at the precise moment in the case which significantly limited my client's exposure, an outcome so favorable that it would have seemed impossible at the case's inception. The case is high-profile, which means I'll be even more solicited as "the guy" in my jurisdiction for murders and very serious sex crimes, and the named partners at my firm couldn't be happier with me.

However, today, because of my work, a victim of sexual abuse suffered an emotional break down in court and had to be essentially carried out of the room after she mustered all the energy she could to tell her story - only to hear that my legal arguments overcame her emotional outcry. Her supporters and a few other onlookers shot me looks of pure hate as if I had committed the actions alleged in the indictment myself. While I know that I, of course, didn't commit those actions and I merely did my job well within the procedural and ethical rules of my jurisdiction, I can't help but wonder if I just silenced some other victim of abuse from coming forward.   And, if so, how can I not feel terrible about that?

But I can't really think about this empirical question because, at 10 PM after working since 6:30 AM, I still have to respond to few more emails as efficiently as possible so I can get to bed and wake up tomorrow to do the work necessary to repeat what I did today. 
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I think I shared with you once the story of the Therapist/rapist I got off who them victimized another patient.  For me, I could not rationalize that I was merely representing one side in an adversarial process, a necessary cog in that process.  I had to switch sides.  Prosecution was not nearly as lucrative as defense work, but it was work I could be proud of, or so I hoped.  In the end know this, at least from my experience, there are decisions made from either side of that aisle that are at least partially imposed upon us as lawyers by clients, ethical precepts, and exigencies of individual cases that will leave one with moral quandaries and uncertainties. No side has a monopoly on doing the lord's work. Justice is the goal, the goal is unattainable, at least consistently, but the goal is worthy of our striving to reach it, each side of the equation.

 
Zow said:
Sometimes this is an incredibly difficult, strange profession where achievement can seem rather hollow. 

Today, consistent with an unexplainable pattern of achieving incredibly favorable results for clients charged with serious sex crimes (whether by way of an acquittal at trial or a favorable plea agreement), I obtained, after hundreds of hours of work and the combination of a well-crafted and argued motion to suppress as well as knowing the opposing counsel/prosecutor well enough to time a counter-offer offer at the precise moment in the case which significantly limited my client's exposure, an outcome so favorable that it would have seemed impossible at the case's inception. The case is high-profile, which means I'll be even more solicited as "the guy" in my jurisdiction for murders and very serious sex crimes, and the named partners at my firm couldn't be happier with me.

However, today, because of my work, a victim of sexual abuse suffered an emotional break down in court and had to be essentially carried out of the room after she mustered all the energy she could to tell her story - only to hear that my legal arguments overcame her emotional outcry. Her supporters and a few other onlookers shot me looks of pure hate as if I had committed the actions alleged in the indictment myself. While I know that I, of course, didn't commit those actions and I merely did my job well within the procedural and ethical rules of my jurisdiction, I can't help but wonder if I just silenced some other victim of abuse from coming forward.   And, if so, how can I not feel terrible about that?

But I can't really think about this empirical question because, at 10 PM after working since 6:30 AM, I still have to respond to few more emails as efficiently as possible so I can get to bed and wake up tomorrow to do the work necessary to repeat what I did today. 
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I have respect for both prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys, but there's no way I could do that.   Give me taking my cut of money that is getting pushed from an insurance company I don't care about to a client I don't care about any day.

 
I remember in law school finding criminal law fascinating.  We had a professor who was pretty invested in showing the human side of things, so he'd often assign contemporary news articles with our cases.  His bottom line for us one day was, "it is the most important law you can practice, but you've gotta have the stomach for it."

Admittedly, I do not.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I think I shared with you once the story of the Therapist/rapist I got off who them victimized another patient.  For me, I could not rationalize that I was merely representing one side in an adversarial process, a necessary cog in that process.  I had to switch sides.  Prosecution was not nearly as lucrative as defense work, but it was work I could be proud of, or so I hoped.  In the end know this, at least from my experience, there are decisions made from either side of that aisle that are at least partially imposed upon us as lawyers by clients, ethical precepts, and exigencies of individual cases that will leave one with moral quandaries and uncertainties. No side has a monopoly on doing the lord's work. Justice is the goal, the goal is unattainable, at least consistently, but the goal is worthy of our striving to reach it, each side of the equation.
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really well said.

thanx

 
In two and a half hours it’s official: my law firm goes live as a solo practitioner appellate (primarily) and plaintiff firm, while I continue “Of Counsel” at my current firm.  I managed to negotiate for my firm to keep paying me my full salary plus the amount they currently pay in payroll taxes and giving me a percentage of cases despite being an independent contractor who can work from home at will and take other cases. 

Finally again some measure of independence and recognition that I’m no one’s associate.  Can’t even explain how much lighter I feel. 

Happy New Year, everyone. 

 
Henry Ford said:
In two and a half hours it’s official: my law firm goes live as a solo practitioner appellate (primarily) and plaintiff firm, while I continue “Of Counsel” at my current firm.  I managed to negotiate for my firm to keep paying me my full salary plus the amount they currently pay in payroll taxes and giving me a percentage of cases despite being an independent contractor who can work from home at will and take other cases. 

Finally again some measure of independence and recognition that I’m no one’s associate.  Can’t even explain how much lighter I feel. 

Happy New Year, everyone. 
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Congrats, Henry.

 
-fish- said:
Yeah, that's a great position.  You'll love being solo.
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Gave a CLE on appellate work for plaintiffs last week and forgot how much that’s needed here.  Had requests for my card from a dozen people who said they had work.  

Feels like it may work out. 

 
If I could be 100% appellate work with $150-250 per hour plus 15-25% of the eventual attorney’s fees on the case if it got turned around I’d be happier than I’ve ever been in my life. 

 
Henry Ford said:
If I could be 100% appellate work with $150-250 per hour plus 15-25% of the eventual attorney’s fees on the case if it got turned around I’d be happier than I’ve ever been in my life. 
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Awesome GB  Best of luck.

 
Here's something I was pondering today regarding our profession:

Elon Musk is a guy who looks at the big, huge picture, years or decades out, and takes action now to literally change the world.  He started Tesla to help wean the world from fossil fuels and accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles (which by all accounts he has achieved rather successfully).  He started SpaceX because he believes colonizing Mars and other planets is crucial to the long-term survival of our species.  He claims that we could start colonizing Mars within 10 years.

And yet, in our professional, it all feels very old fashioned.  We're still writing on legal pads in depositions.  We're doing things more or less in the same ways.  Yes there are some vendors out there who are using AI to speed up doc review or to help write basic agreements, but by and large it feels like we are dinosaurs.

What is the next huge change on the horizon for us?  Are we going to become obsolete if we don't adapt? Is there major opportunity in offering legal services in some truly innovative ways? What's are some things that we in our profession can do in that same vein as Musk, things that are transformative? 

In part I ask this out of curiosity, and in part I ask this because I wonder what I might do as a "next step" in my career, beyond what I've been doing for 20 years and would continue to do for another 20 in a traditional law firm.

The best I can come up with is an area that I find super interesting and which clients are all freaking out about (which suggests there is true opportunity there) is big data/AI/data privacy/etc.  Lots of really interesting IP/privacy/cyber issues in there.  Obviously some big firms have these practices, but not many.  I wonder about starting up some new boutique that specializes in one-stop shopping across all these "data law" areas.  And then providing the services on some unique fee arrangements (fixed monthly fee, we handle all your needs, not at super cheap rates but cheaper than the biggest firms), and some new forward-thinking ways of delivering services.

But even this is just the most minor step forward.  It's not that interesting or unique.  It's opening a firm that is somewhat cutting edge and focusing on a cutting edge practice area where there, I am banking, will be some significant needs in the coming decades.

It ain't great, but it's the best I've got.  Other thoughts on all this?

 
Otis said:
Here's something I was pondering today regarding our profession:

Elon Musk is a guy who looks at the big, huge picture, years or decades out, and takes action now to literally change the world.  He started Tesla to help wean the world from fossil fuels and accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles (which by all accounts he has achieved rather successfully).  He started SpaceX because he believes colonizing Mars and other planets is crucial to the long-term survival of our species.  He claims that we could start colonizing Mars within 10 years.

And yet, in our professional, it all feels very old fashioned.  We're still writing on legal pads in depositions.  We're doing things more or less in the same ways.  Yes there are some vendors out there who are using AI to speed up doc review or to help write basic agreements, but by and large it feels like we are dinosaurs.

What is the next huge change on the horizon for us?  Are we going to become obsolete if we don't adapt? Is there major opportunity in offering legal services in some truly innovative ways? What's are some things that we in our profession can do in that same vein as Musk, things that are transformative? 

In part I ask this out of curiosity, and in part I ask this because I wonder what I might do as a "next step" in my career, beyond what I've been doing for 20 years and would continue to do for another 20 in a traditional law firm.

The best I can come up with is an area that I find super interesting and which clients are all freaking out about (which suggests there is true opportunity there) is big data/AI/data privacy/etc.  Lots of really interesting IP/privacy/cyber issues in there.  Obviously some big firms have these practices, but not many.  I wonder about starting up some new boutique that specializes in one-stop shopping across all these "data law" areas.  And then providing the services on some unique fee arrangements (fixed monthly fee, we handle all your needs, not at super cheap rates but cheaper than the biggest firms), and some new forward-thinking ways of delivering services.

But even this is just the most minor step forward.  It's not that interesting or unique.  It's opening a firm that is somewhat cutting edge and focusing on a cutting edge practice area where there, I am banking, will be some significant needs in the coming decades.

It ain't great, but it's the best I've got.  Other thoughts on all this?
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Skype/FaceTime/something secure $50 consult that gets applied toward your IP compliance/regulatory/SOC2/whatever legal consulting contract if you sign one, which also places you on retainer as a data breach litigator. 

 
Full disclosure...shockingly...I am not a lawyer.

But whenever I discuss the BoR with my students (esp the 4th and 5th) I tell them “don’t say a word...I mean it...you ever watch a TV show or movie where someone ‘lawyers up’? Yeah, that..do that’. “  

What is hilarious is that 90% of my students that get busted for doing something on campus is because somebody narced.

 
favorite issue of the year so far: long term client’s relative was hit by a car in a parking lot as a pedestrian. Was told by the insurance company of the guy who hit her that he said she jumped in front of the car so they were investigating her for insurance fraud. 

Spoke to the insurance company, whose rep was adamant that my new client is a liar and a cheat.  

“Listen, you don’t know me but I don’t take frivolous cases and I don’t take scams.  If I understand you correctly, my 85 year old client who retired at 50 and just returned from living in Europe for ten years threw herself in front of a 98 Toyota Corolla driving the wrong way down a parking lot aisle in front of a Walmart as an insurance scam, is that correct?”

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Full disclosure...shockingly...I am not a lawyer.

But whenever I discuss the BoR with my students (esp the 4th and 5th) I tell them “don’t say a word...I mean it...you ever watch a TV show or movie where someone ‘lawyers up’? Yeah, that..do that’. “  

What is hilarious is that 90% of my students that get busted for doing something on campus is because somebody narced.
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That’s what’s referred to as the “prisoner’s dilemma.”  All it takes is one weak one. It’s also why I have a hard time believing in mass conspiracies because it’s inevitable that somebody would narc. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

 
I'll share a story regarding the issue of shut the #### up and why I cannot imagine a scenario where I'd ever even passively condone a client speaking to police. 

This was a few years ago when I was beginning to make the name for myself of being the guy in my area for these types of cases.  Family calls me in cold because client is being arrested for child molestation (I'll keep the facts of the allegation minimal because they aren't that relevant/important for the purpose of this post/story).  I meet client at the police department right before questioning (while this doesn't happen very often and isn't nearly as glamorous, it's about as close to a real life Law and Order:SVU interrogation scene as you can get).  I quickly get up to speed and speak to both the lead detective (a guy I previously believed to be a pretty above board officer who had actually kept his word to me when he didn't have to on an unrelated case a few months prior) and my client. Client is insistent nothing happened and wants to make a statement.  I, of course, provide the cautionary advice but, after realizing the client doesn't want to invoke, I walk him through how to make short, succinct, honest statements and only answer the questions asked.

We go in to the interview room and there's maybe a 15 minute interrogation. I'm right with my client and jump in where necessary but the interrogation really was pretty reasonable.  Detective's questions were seemingly fine and the client did a nice job answering questions without going off on tangents and/or with any hint of deception and directly denied the allegations where appropriate. Both myself and the detective recorded the conversation.  The Detective was very up front that a charge was being filed regardless of my client's statement so my client and I left the interrogation thinking, "all things considered, mission accomplished: we now have an outright denial during custodial interrogation that I likely can elicit as admissible hearsay from the detective should this ever go to trial."

Fast forward to my client's initial appearance the next morning.  I'm preparing to make a bond argument and I read in the detective's probable cause statement that, "the defendant admitted to touching the victim."  I had to read it through times to believe it was included as my client never admitted guilt at any point. It dawns on me after thinking about the interrogation that this is where the detective pulled the claim and spun it: 

Detective: She says [allegation].  Did you touch her [in manner consistent with allegation]?

Client:  No.  I never touched her [in manner consistent with allegation].  

Detective:  Did you or any part of your body ever come in contact with her body at all? 

Client: Well yeah.  We were sitting next to each other on the couch playing a video game together (handheld console they passed back and forth) like we do all the time.  I'm sure our legs were in touching or something.        

Detective: Do you think you may have, in contact, accidentally touched her [in manner consistent with allegation]? 

Client: Absolutely not. We were just playing a video game. 

Obviously the detective took my client's honest, innocuous answer (yes, our bodies were touching) and morphed its context.  This came from what I had reason to believe to be a "good" officer and from a recorded conversation with the attorney present.  I was obviously able to put a bit of egg on the officer's face and, had this matter gone to trial, would have been able to impeach the detective but for the initial appearance it still hurt my client. 

I tell this story to every client I have advised since on whether they should speak to police and I genuinely cannot think of a scenario where I'd advise somebody to answer an officer's questions if it's pretty clear the officer is suspicious of criminal activity.  

 
Otis said:
Here's something I was pondering today regarding our profession:

Elon Musk is a guy who looks at the big, huge picture, years or decades out, and takes action now to literally change the world.  He started Tesla to help wean the world from fossil fuels and accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles (which by all accounts he has achieved rather successfully).  He started SpaceX because he believes colonizing Mars and other planets is crucial to the long-term survival of our species.  He claims that we could start colonizing Mars within 10 years.

And yet, in our professional, it all feels very old fashioned.  We're still writing on legal pads in depositions.  We're doing things more or less in the same ways.  Yes there are some vendors out there who are using AI to speed up doc review or to help write basic agreements, but by and large it feels like we are dinosaurs.

What is the next huge change on the horizon for us?  Are we going to become obsolete if we don't adapt? Is there major opportunity in offering legal services in some truly innovative ways? What's are some things that we in our profession can do in that same vein as Musk, things that are transformative? 

In part I ask this out of curiosity, and in part I ask this because I wonder what I might do as a "next step" in my career, beyond what I've been doing for 20 years and would continue to do for another 20 in a traditional law firm.

The best I can come up with is an area that I find super interesting and which clients are all freaking out about (which suggests there is true opportunity there) is big data/AI/data privacy/etc.  Lots of really interesting IP/privacy/cyber issues in there.  Obviously some big firms have these practices, but not many.  I wonder about starting up some new boutique that specializes in one-stop shopping across all these "data law" areas.  And then providing the services on some unique fee arrangements (fixed monthly fee, we handle all your needs, not at super cheap rates but cheaper than the biggest firms), and some new forward-thinking ways of delivering services.

But even this is just the most minor step forward.  It's not that interesting or unique.  It's opening a firm that is somewhat cutting edge and focusing on a cutting edge practice area where there, I am banking, will be some significant needs in the coming decades.

It ain't great, but it's the best I've got.  Other thoughts on all this?
Click to expand...
I just feel like someone should tell you Elon Musk didn't start Tesla...carry on...

 
Zow said:
Sometimes this is an incredibly difficult, strange profession where achievement can seem rather hollow. 

Today, consistent with an unexplainable pattern of achieving incredibly favorable results for clients charged with serious sex crimes (whether by way of an acquittal at trial or a favorable plea agreement), I obtained, after hundreds of hours of work and the combination of a well-crafted and argued motion to suppress as well as knowing the opposing counsel/prosecutor well enough to time a counter-offer offer at the precise moment in the case which significantly limited my client's exposure, an outcome so favorable that it would have seemed impossible at the case's inception. The case is high-profile, which means I'll be even more solicited as "the guy" in my jurisdiction for murders and very serious sex crimes, and the named partners at my firm couldn't be happier with me.

However, today, because of my work, a victim of sexual abuse suffered an emotional break down in court and had to be essentially carried out of the room after she mustered all the energy she could to tell her story - only to hear that my legal arguments overcame her emotional outcry. Her supporters and a few other onlookers shot me looks of pure hate as if I had committed the actions alleged in the indictment myself. While I know that I, of course, didn't commit those actions and I merely did my job well within the procedural and ethical rules of my jurisdiction, I can't help but wonder if I just silenced some other victim of abuse from coming forward.   And, if so, how can I not feel terrible about that?

But I can't really think about this empirical question because, at 10 PM after working since 6:30 AM, I still have to respond to few more emails as efficiently as possible so I can get to bed and wake up tomorrow to do the work necessary to repeat what I did today. 
Click to expand...
You're supposed to want to be on the other side of this equation...

 
dotman said:
You're supposed to want to be on the other side of this equation...
Click to expand...
But somebody has to be on the side of the equation that I was. And, if I can do that job professionally and within the ethical confines of the law, then it’s far better that I’m on that side because somebody needs to be and another person may not be able to do the job as the constitution intends. 

 
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