The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (9 Viewers)

Congrats, Doc and DocDad! Terrific story.

Henry Ford said:

Otis is a patent litigator?

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BAG

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

DocGonzo said:

About 8 years ago my dad, a Vietnam combat veteran, filed a claim with the VA seeking benefits for a medical condition that is linked to Agent Orange exposure. They denied his original claim and there were appeals and remands and a lot of "hurry up and wait" for the next 4 or 5 years. A few years ago it was set for appeal to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims in DC. I took his file and went through it and we worked on his appeal together. We put together an argument that I thought was pretty good. The hours I spent learning about this stuff...crazy. But this is my dad, you know, and this was a chance for me to have HIS back for a change.

I wrote the brief for the DC court and we won a remand in which the Court took apart the VA for the way it handled the case to that point. That was about a year and a half ago. The case went back to the VA, who solicited a separate medical opinion from a VA doc who hadn't yet reviewed the case. Fresh eyes, I guess. That doctor gave an opinion and two weeks ago I submitted our brief in response and our final argument. Today, while I played hooky and watched the Tigers get a well-earned Opening Day win, my dad called:

"Hey," he said. "We beat 'em."

Ok, his language might have been a little more colorful.

This one was so personal I can't even...I could quit doing this job tomorrow or I could do it for another 100 years, but I can't imagine ever being happier or more proud of a win. I can't explain what it means to me to come through for somebody who's come through for me so many times.

I don't mean to crow or get into a look-at-me thing. Just wanted to share that because these are the kinds of things that make all of the BS we often encounter in this job so very effing worth it. They can be few and far between, but I'm going to live on this one for a good while. Today was a good day.

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Totally awesome. Congrats.

DocGonzo said:

About 8 years ago my dad, a Vietnam combat veteran, filed a claim with the VA seeking benefits for a medical condition that is linked to Agent Orange exposure. They denied his original claim and there were appeals and remands and a lot of "hurry up and wait" for the next 4 or 5 years. A few years ago it was set for appeal to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims in DC. I took his file and went through it and we worked on his appeal together. We put together an argument that I thought was pretty good. The hours I spent learning about this stuff...crazy. But this is my dad, you know, and this was a chance for me to have HIS back for a change.

I wrote the brief for the DC court and we won a remand in which the Court took apart the VA for the way it handled the case to that point. That was about a year and a half ago. The case went back to the VA, who solicited a separate medical opinion from a VA doc who hadn't yet reviewed the case. Fresh eyes, I guess. That doctor gave an opinion and two weeks ago I submitted our brief in response and our final argument. Today, while I played hooky and watched the Tigers get a well-earned Opening Day win, my dad called:

"Hey," he said. "We beat 'em."

Ok, his language might have been a little more colorful.

This one was so personal I can't even...I could quit doing this job tomorrow or I could do it for another 100 years, but I can't imagine ever being happier or more proud of a win. I can't explain what it means to me to come through for somebody who's come through for me so many times.

I don't mean to crow or get into a look-at-me thing. Just wanted to share that because these are the kinds of things that make all of the BS we often encounter in this job so very effing worth it. They can be few and far between, but I'm going to live on this one for a good while. Today was a good day.

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That is friggin' awesome. Congrats.

DocGonzo said:

Thanks guys.

Hey, thecatch, I'm far from an expert on this stuff but feel free to shoot me a PM and if there's anything I have to share that can help you I'd be more than happy.

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Thanks, appreciate it.

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Awesome, Doc.

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Damn, that's a long way from patent litigation!

Very cool, Doc.

It sounds corny, but it's definitely refreshing to handle stuff that means something to you personally. It's about as close as most of us get to being Atticus Finch.

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach? Seriously though, Oats. You're an equity partner at one of the biggest law firms in the world. And you have gigantic living expenses. Even if you could carve yourself out a career as a solo, I doubt it would be appreciably less stressful and time consuming unless you were willing to take a huge cut in pay and a big hit to your standard of living. Is that a realistic option for you?

I'll say this to Otis because nobody else has - if you're making a career decision to go solo primarily because you want to take it easy, you're either going to be sorely disappointed or you're going to completely crash and burn as a solo.

Yes, you have more discretion as a solo but you have to get it up and running and keep it up and running, and you're going to be doing more, not less, administrative things.

DocGonzo said:

About 8 years ago my dad, a Vietnam combat veteran, filed a claim with the VA seeking benefits for a medical condition that is linked to Agent Orange exposure. They denied his original claim and there were appeals and remands and a lot of "hurry up and wait" for the next 4 or 5 years. A few years ago it was set for appeal to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims in DC. I took his file and went through it and we worked on his appeal together. We put together an argument that I thought was pretty good. The hours I spent learning about this stuff...crazy. But this is my dad, you know, and this was a chance for me to have HIS back for a change.

I wrote the brief for the DC court and we won a remand in which the Court took apart the VA for the way it handled the case to that point. That was about a year and a half ago. The case went back to the VA, who solicited a separate medical opinion from a VA doc who hadn't yet reviewed the case. Fresh eyes, I guess. That doctor gave an opinion and two weeks ago I submitted our brief in response and our final argument. Today, while I played hooky and watched the Tigers get a well-earned Opening Day win, my dad called:

"Hey," he said. "We beat 'em."

Ok, his language might have been a little more colorful.

This one was so personal I can't even...I could quit doing this job tomorrow or I could do it for another 100 years, but I can't imagine ever being happier or more proud of a win. I can't explain what it means to me to come through for somebody who's come through for me so many times.

I don't mean to crow or get into a look-at-me thing. Just wanted to share that because these are the kinds of things that make all of the BS we often encounter in this job so very effing worth it. They can be few and far between, but I'm going to live on this one for a good while. Today was a good day.

Click to expand...

Very cool. Congratulations. I work with a lot of veterans on a lot of different types of things and this type of win is a real big deal.

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach? Seriously though, Oats. You're an equity partner at one of the biggest law firms in the world. And you have gigantic living expenses. Even if you could carve yourself out a career as a solo, I doubt it would be appreciably less stressful and time consuming unless you were willing to take a huge cut in pay and a big hit to your standard of living. Is that a realistic option for you?

Click to expand...

Nope. Not now. Maybe in ten years though.

Otis said:

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach? Seriously though, Oats. You're an equity partner at one of the biggest law firms in the world. And you have gigantic living expenses. Even if you could carve yourself out a career as a solo, I doubt it would be appreciably less stressful and time consuming unless you were willing to take a huge cut in pay and a big hit to your standard of living. Is that a realistic option for you?

Click to expand...

Nope. Not now. Maybe in ten years though.

Click to expand...

Good luck. I'm guessing by then your wife will have talked you into putting both your kids into private school.

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach?

Click to expand...

he lives on the big island, so yes, he does it from the beach.

Otis said:

Henry Ford said:

Otis is a patent litigator?

Click to expand...

BAG

Click to expand...

I wasn't asking as an insult. I was asking because I think that's nifty.

Henry Ford said:

Otis said:

Henry Ford said:

Otis is a patent litigator?

Click to expand...

BAG

Click to expand...

I wasn't asking as an insult. I was asking because I think that's nifty.

Click to expand...

I'm a patent medicine litigator.

T Bell said:

Henry Ford said:

Otis said:

Henry Ford said:

Otis is a patent litigator?

Click to expand...

BAG

Click to expand...

I wasn't asking as an insult. I was asking because I think that's nifty.

Click to expand...

I'm a patent medicine litigator.

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The world needs snake oil

-fish- said:

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach?

Click to expand...

he lives on the big island, so yes, he does it from the beach.

Click to expand...

Uh-oh, worlds colliding. My cousin is an attorney on the Big Island. Seriously, how many can there be?

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach?

Click to expand...

he lives on the big island, so yes, he does it from the beach.

Click to expand...

Uh-oh, worlds colliding. My cousin is an attorney on the Big Island. Seriously, how many can there be?

Click to expand...

not a lot. he started doing criminal stuff because the Hawaii County bar makes you take so many assigned cases a year.

he is/was also a town councilman of Hilo for a while and rents office space to some other lawyers.

Cool. My grandparents lived near Hilo for several decades before they passed away. Loved going to visit them and loved that side of the island. My aunt still lives there and my lawyer-cousin is in Kona. Rest of the fam is on Oahu.

bigbottom said:

Cool. My grandparents lived near Hilo for several decades before they passed away. Loved going to visit them and loved that side of the island. My aunt still lives there and my lawyer-cousin is in Kona. Rest of the fam is on Oahu.

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I lived in his old house for a while when he was on an extended vacation in Bali...it was in Ninole, which claims to have the second smallest post office in the United States.

I visit about every other year. Usually spend a couple days in Kona enjoying the sun before I go see him.

-fish- said:

bigbottom said:

Cool. My grandparents lived near Hilo for several decades before they passed away. Loved going to visit them and loved that side of the island. My aunt still lives there and my lawyer-cousin is in Kona. Rest of the fam is on Oahu.

Click to expand...

I lived in his old house for a while when he was on an extended vacation in Bali...it was in Ninole, which claims to have the second smallest post office in the United States.

I visit about every other year. Usually spend a couple days in Kona enjoying the sun before I go see him.

Click to expand...

What does this consist of? An inbox and an outbox on someone's desk?

T Bell said:

-fish- said:

bigbottom said:

Cool. My grandparents lived near Hilo for several decades before they passed away. Loved going to visit them and loved that side of the island. My aunt still lives there and my lawyer-cousin is in Kona. Rest of the fam is on Oahu.

Click to expand...

I lived in his old house for a while when he was on an extended vacation in Bali...it was in Ninole, which claims to have the second smallest post office in the United States.

I visit about every other year. Usually spend a couple days in Kona enjoying the sun before I go see him.

Click to expand...

What does this consist of? An inbox and an outbox on someone's desk?

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here you go.

Big deal, braggarts. I live on a big island too, and work from here all the time.

EYEROLL

bigbottom said:

Otis said:

bigbottom said:

-fish- said:

Otis said:

Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Otis, with all due respect, as a patent litigator, what really makes you a candidate to hang out a shingle?

Click to expand...

That part would be tricky. I'd have to give up my lit practice I suppose; alternatively, I've been mulling over a "lit consultant" role that some firms might consider for smaller litigation matters/licensing. Who knows if anyone would buy into that.

Another alternatively for me would be that I do some patent prosecution and opinion work as well. That's the kind of crap I could do from a beach and never sniff a plane or courtroom ever again.

On the downside, pat litigation is probably what I'm best at, and best utilizes my combination of abilities. And I find it exciting, and the other stuff less so. That said, if I can arrange a low stress life working from a beach, with all the freedom and family time in the world, screw excitement....

Click to expand...

my brother was a patent litigator who went solo. now he does a little of everything. he's currently in the middle of a two month attempted murder trial where he's defending a guy that shot two cops.

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty stress-free. Is he able to do that from the beach? Seriously though, Oats. You're an equity partner at one of the biggest law firms in the world. And you have gigantic living expenses. Even if you could carve yourself out a career as a solo, I doubt it would be appreciably less stressful and time consuming unless you were willing to take a huge cut in pay and a big hit to your standard of living. Is that a realistic option for you?

Click to expand...

Nope. Not now. Maybe in ten years though.

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Good luck. I'm guessing by then your wife will have talked you into putting both your kids into private school.

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Thanks for taking pleasure in my captivity Good Buddy!!!

To make matters worse, we are considering a big house upgrade to a place that will have double the mortgage of the current dump. Pretty sure I will be at a firm, probably this one, till I'm gray.

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

DocGonzo said:

This one was so personal I can't even...I could quit doing this job tomorrow or I could do it for another 100 years, but I can't imagine ever being happier or more proud of a win. I can't explain what it means to me to come through for somebody who's come through for me so many times.

Click to expand...

You're pretty awesome.

*wakes up from bourbon haze, sees way more notifications than he's ever seen before*

Thanks for all of the kind words. The only downside to this thing right now is they sent the opinion directly to my dad, who lives about 2.5 hours away. It isn't available online so I haven't been able to read it yet. He'd rather go back to Vietnam than have to figure out how to scan and email it to me so I won't be able to read it until my brother stops over there and can send it to me. My dad said it's about 10 pages long and he called me twice while he was reading it, laughing, and saying "we were right the whole time!"

Otis said:

To make matters worse, we are considering a big house upgrade to a place that will have double the mortgage of the current dump. Pretty sure I will be at a firm, probably this one, till I'm gray.

Click to expand...

What are the pros and cons of this decision? One of the things that has helped us really save and invest (and allows me to have options in terms of my career) is that we've done our best not to ratchet up our expenses over the years as my comp has risen. By way of example, thirteen years later, we are in the same house that we purchased when I was a third year associate making third year associate money. Most of my peers have moved into homes worth 2-3 times as much and they are stuck with big fat mortgages and huge property tax bills. Admittedly, the private school was a big hit for us, however, though not as big a hit as I imagine it would be in your area. Are the public schools sufficiently good where you are thinking of moving such that private school won't even need to be a consideration?

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

bigbottom said:

Otis said:

To make matters worse, we are considering a big house upgrade to a place that will have double the mortgage of the current dump. Pretty sure I will be at a firm, probably this one, till I'm gray.

Click to expand...

What are the pros and cons of this decision? One of the things that has helped us really save and invest (and allows me to have options in terms of my career) is that we've done our best not to ratchet up our expenses over the years as my comp has risen. By way of example, thirteen years later, we are in the same house that we purchased when I was a third year associate making third year associate money. Most of my peers have moved into homes worth 2-3 times as much and they are stuck with big fat mortgages and huge property tax bills. Admittedly, the private school was a big hit for us, however, though not as big a hit as I imagine it would be in your area. Are the public schools sufficiently good where you are thinking of moving such that private school won't even need to be a consideration?

Click to expand...

If you absolutely loved your job Otis, it would be less of an issue IMO. The fact that you would like to explore some lower stress or less time consuming options is a huge concern to me. I think if you lock yourself into a big house with a big mortgage, you are going to be miserable and your entire family will suffer. Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Seriously, I bet statistically you would have a MUCH higher chance of ending in a divorce if you overextend yourself for a bigger house and a job you hate. Let some other sucker fall for that. If you're not satisfied with the house you have now, chances are you won't be satisfied with the bigger one you buy either.

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

bigbottom said:

By way of example, thirteen years later, we are in the same house that we purchased when I was a third year associate making third year associate money. Most of my peers have moved into homes worth 2-3 times as much and they are stuck with big fat mortgages and huge property tax bills.

Click to expand...

I've seen a picture of biggie's house, he is really slumming it.

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

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Congratulations?

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

Congratulations?

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Thanks?

GroveDiesel said:

bigbottom said:

Otis said:

To make matters worse, we are considering a big house upgrade to a place that will have double the mortgage of the current dump. Pretty sure I will be at a firm, probably this one, till I'm gray.

Click to expand...

What are the pros and cons of this decision? One of the things that has helped us really save and invest (and allows me to have options in terms of my career) is that we've done our best not to ratchet up our expenses over the years as my comp has risen. By way of example, thirteen years later, we are in the same house that we purchased when I was a third year associate making third year associate money. Most of my peers have moved into homes worth 2-3 times as much and they are stuck with big fat mortgages and huge property tax bills. Admittedly, the private school was a big hit for us, however, though not as big a hit as I imagine it would be in your area. Are the public schools sufficiently good where you are thinking of moving such that private school won't even need to be a consideration?

Click to expand...

If you absolutely loved your job Otis, it would be less of an issue IMO. The fact that you would like to explore some lower stress or less time consuming options is a huge concern to me. I think if you lock yourself into a big house with a big mortgage, you are going to be miserable and your entire family will suffer. Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Seriously, I bet statistically you would have a MUCH higher chance of ending in a divorce if you overextend yourself for a bigger house and a job you hate. Let some other sucker fall for that. If you're not satisfied with the house you have now, chances are you won't be satisfied with the bigger one you buy either.

Click to expand...

I hear you. See my new post. We Will definitely be happy with the houses we are looking at. We want to either stay put or move once more to the home we raise our kids in forever.

As for my job, I bitcsh I know, but I don't hate it that much. Sometimes I even like it. Relatively speaking it's a great gig, and while sometimes I feel I shoulder a lot of stress and anxiety, that's partly on me. I could deal with things better. I'm working on that. But I enjoy some aspects of my work, and I feel I'm well paid for my time. Heck when things are slow and I'm leaving at 6 on a regular basis, I'm amazed at what a great deal I have. I work at a big firm, but not limited edition that requires me to be in the office 3k hours a year.

Sorry another TL;DR

bigbottom said:

Otis said:

To make matters worse, we are considering a big house upgrade to a place that will have double the mortgage of the current dump. Pretty sure I will be at a firm, probably this one, till I'm gray.

Click to expand...

What are the pros and cons of this decision? One of the things that has helped us really save and invest (and allows me to have options in terms of my career) is that we've done our best not to ratchet up our expenses over the years as my comp has risen. By way of example, thirteen years later, we are in the same house that we purchased when I was a third year associate making third year associate money. Most of my peers have moved into homes worth 2-3 times as much and they are stuck with big fat mortgages and huge property tax bills. Admittedly, the private school was a big hit for us, however, though not as big a hit as I imagine it would be in your area. Are the public schools sufficiently good where you are thinking of moving such that private school won't even need to be a consideration?

Click to expand...

You are smart and conservative. Otis is stupid. Luckily our current neighborhood, where we would stay and upgrade, has excellent public schools. So we don't envision private school, at least now.

The move is primarily because we bought a house in a neighborhood we fell in love with, and got it at a good price at least by local standards. Keep in mind we live on the "gold Coast" area of long Island, one of the most expensive housing regions in the country. (we are not in the Most expensive part, if only because we want our kids to be a little more down to earth and have some diversity).

We bought this home about three years ago knowing it would need lots of work. It's only 3 bedrooms, smallish ones at that. And we plan to grow the family more. I would love one or two more kids bedrooms, ideally also a guest bedroom for the in-laws and small home office for me. We only have 2200sft. It is a hundred year old home. The kitchen is very old and needs a gut and expansion. We would also love a finished basement or play room so we don't have toys strewn about the family room all the time, preferably something closer to the kitchen so my wife can keep an eye on the kids while cooking etc.

Purpose of the long explanation is primarily to day that I don't think we are looking for something totally outlandish. Just an updated home with enough rooms, maybe 3500sqft?

Turns out a home like that costs a small fortune here. We had an architect draw up plans for an addition on our house to do all the things we would want, and it's probably a 400-500k project and it still won't have everything we really woukd want. Alternative is to toss in some more money and move. That also means we don't have to live through six months of major construction with two little kids.

The current house we could probably pay off in five years. Our current to mortgage amount is less than my gross income. So it's pretty conservative now. Of course we would need to dump in another loan or cash for the work.

We saw a home this week we absolutely love. It fits the bill for 99/100 of the items we want. Near perfect. And has a huge flat yard for the kids to play (current house is set on a steep Hill, not ideal)

We would be taking on a larger mortgage than I ever would have imagined. But according to all the online calculators, we can conservatively afford it. For comparison, the mortgage on the house would be a little more than 2x my gross salary. I would think if we wanted we could probably pay it off in 10 years if I continue to advance upwards in my firm the way others have. That's not a guarantee of course. Even if my salary remains flat, we should be able to pay off the mortgage in 15 years if we want to). So while the number feels outrageously high to me, relatively speaking I don't think it would overextend us.

By the way, I recognize you and our colleagues down in Texas live like kings in comparison. Associates down there buy nice newly built 3000sqft homes. Here associates rent one bedroom apartments. The wall Street guys skew the housing prices in any of the decent commute communities. (keep in mind my commute is still 1:15, not awful by local standards)

We have considered moving to a cheaper area. The money we are contemplating spending here gets us a Palace in some other local areas. But my wife won't leave. She has grown to love the town after uprooting from the city and now making lots of friends. It's a great place to raise a family.

TLDR I know, but I'm always happy to get a gut check from my wiser friends here.

Oh and LAWLawlawmotiontodismiss!

Ever try to navigate through the pile on your desk with a migraine? Ooof.

Yankee23Fan said:

Ever try to navigate through the pile on your desk with a migraine? Ooof.

Click to expand...

No, but I do it with a hangover 4 days a week

For April fool's day, a settlement special master had 70 deficiency notices delivered for my clients involved in the settlement. Haha! I guess I'll just ignore them. That scamp.

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Zow said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Click to expand...

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Click to expand...

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

Click to expand...

There is a substantial middle area between the two polar extremes you think are the only two possibilities.

Zow said:

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Click to expand...

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

Click to expand...

There is a substantial middle area between the two polar extremes you think are the only two possibilities.

Click to expand...

And pray tell what does your crystal ball say I think the two possibilities are?

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Click to expand...

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

Click to expand...

There is a substantial middle area between the two polar extremes you think are the only two possibilities.

Click to expand...

And pray tell what does your crystal ball say I think the two possibilities are?

Click to expand...

Money is everything or money is meaningless.

NCCommish said:

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

Click to expand...

Why would anyone who knows anything about justice in this country ever pretend that?

And, just to throw it out there, court cases don't promise the litigants (or defendants/prosecutors) justice. They're a chance at justice. That's about all you get.

Zow said:

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

NCCommish said:

Zow said:

GroveDiesel said:

Henry Ford said:

GroveDiesel said:

Is this where I come file a grievance when lawyers mess up threads with stuff like "you don't know all the facts of the case"?

Click to expand...

You can try, but it will likely just highlight the fact that you formed an opinion without knowing the facts, in front of a group of lawyers.

Click to expand...

I feel pretty comfortable making a judgment when the defendant actually stipulated in court that he penetrated his 3 year old with his fingers while masturbating.

When the lawyers are left with "the media sometimes screws up the facts of a case" as their only argument, I'm OK with "not knowing all the facts of the case."

Click to expand...

I know you're referencing me, and I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to hear. For some reason, when a lawyer suggests some people pump the brakes on their outrage, it outrages people more and they somehow equate that to defending a particular outcome (the outcome as described by a news outlet). Since I'm within the safety net of the lawyer thread, I can relay the "look at me" fact that I've probably had two dozen or so of my higher profiled criminal cases covered in the media. I've answered some just outside the courtroom canned questions and, much like you see on TV and the movies, have had the evening drink and an "on the record - off the record" with a reporter I trust. I've seen reporters try their best to objectively report on a particular case/hearing/issue I was involved in and fail miserably (after all, there is no legal training so they cannot be expected to get it right). When you mix in a potential agenda, like the article posted in that thread, it just gets even worse.

If you want me to agree that someone who has sexually assaulted two young children deserves a lengthy incarceration, of course I'd agree with you and the zealots in that thread. But I'd be completely burying my head in the sand in doing so in a situation where 1) that isn't what the guy pled to; 2) we're basing this on information from a media articles; and 3) none of us know the underlying circumstances surrounding the plea or what his terms of probation are (likely registration, EHM, etc.).

But hey, if it makes you feel better to get all riled up over a situation in which you lack the facts, and one of your conclusions is that if one throws a bunch of money at a defense attorney they can get out of stuff, even better. I'll be happy to quote a high fee when you or one of your loved ones gets in trouble if that is what gives you the impression that a person is getting away with something.

Click to expand...

You are not even close to pretending that money is meaningless in how justice is dispensed in this country are you?

Click to expand...

There is a substantial middle area between the two polar extremes you think are the only two possibilities.

Click to expand...

And pray tell what does your crystal ball say I think the two possibilities are?

Click to expand...

Money is everything or money is meaningless.

Click to expand...

Might want to get that thing looked at. It's leading you astray. What I think is money means you have a better chance of beating a rap, of getting less jail time or of never even getting charged due to opportunities others won't be offered. You can dispute that but the DOJ stats make it pretty clear that justice is way nicer when you got money. Especially if you are white and wealthy.