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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Henry Ford
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah if I had been on the jury that wouldn't have flown with me. I would have seen it strictly as an attempt to impugn her character. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for you though and you got to do what you got to do. Her lawyer is the suck for letting you do it unopposed.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
Yeah, it was a choice. Slightly more subtle argument. Basically it went like this:
You're suing my client because he caused you emotional distress due to the death of your fetus
You don't believe a fetus is a human life, though, do you?
How many abortions have you had?
So after experiencing the death of one fetus, you voluntarily caused the death of another?
Did you seek counseling either time?
Etc..
You're suing my client because he caused you emotional distress due to the death of your fetus
You don't believe a fetus is a human life, though, do you?
How many abortions have you had?
So after experiencing the death of one fetus, you voluntarily caused the death of another?
Did you seek counseling either time?
Etc..
Henry Ford
Footballguy
That's... a bold argument. I can't believe that went in.-fish- said:
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well that is a little more subtle but I guess my problem comes from knowing women who have had abortions and go on to be great moms who love those children as much as anyone else does. And loved them from the day they knew they were pregnant. That's a hard line you were trying to draw.-fish- said:
-fish-
Footballguy
I went through her history at deposition. Again, no attempt to exclude and no objection. I fully expected not to be able to go near this argument. Anything goes in Vegas
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Again. Not your fault, if he let you.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Pretty confident I could have been a very good lawyer. Much of what I do on the high end sales front I think transfers. Preparing for big presentations, being persuasive, great verbal and written communication skills, logic, reasoning, negotiating, etc. I sort of like playing amateur counsel at our company, and am thinking right along with our GC most times. I think he hates his job though. So could have been good at it, but not sure I would have liked it. Especially the making partner rat race at a big firm.
That being said, the good lawyers I know are significantly better off than I am. Maybe I do need to hang on to those options.
That being said, the good lawyers I know are significantly better off than I am. Maybe I do need to hang on to those options.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Thinking along with GC sometimes doesn't bode well for being outside counsel. But if you feel good about it, give it a go.
krista4
Footballguy
I like when my guys do this. I feel like I've trained them very well.
Seriously, it's great when my businesspeople are already a few steps ahead of where I'd expect. You sound like you're very successful already, but keep it in mind as a career path if you get an itch to do something else...
krista4
Footballguy
How is being name partner at Thorn et al going? Sounds like it's going well.Two of the longest running cases I have settled/finalized within a week of each other. Not sure what to do with myself.
Thorn
Footballguy
Pretty much the best decision in the history of thorn decisions. Some bumps with staff, but just a totally different dynamic. It's freeing, it's empowering, it's being an owner instead of an employee, it's having a real chance to mentor the willing.How is being name partner at Thorn et al going? Sounds like it's going well.Two of the longest running cases I have settled/finalized within a week of each other. Not sure what to do with myself.
I was telling a buddy that, as an employee/associate, when a check came to in to my desk it was almost a bother. It needs to go to billing, if it's on my desk it means they can't figure out what client it goes to, now I have to figure it out because some client is a knucklehead.
Now when a checks come in it feels like a Christmas present.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
So today was be involved in two almost identical types of cases on the opposite side day. Love those days. This is why we drink. Seriously. It's like I'm Two-Face only with extreme schizophrenic tendencies and bi-polar disorder all in the same day period only.
All I know is right now at home waiting for me is a collector bottle of extra aged Jack, fresh mint and my wife's simple syrup concoction that could make a shoe taste good. Going to fire up a nice Mint Julip and try to make the voices stop.
All I know is right now at home waiting for me is a collector bottle of extra aged Jack, fresh mint and my wife's simple syrup concoction that could make a shoe taste good. Going to fire up a nice Mint Julip and try to make the voices stop.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
I really hate when someone only has coffee and water. Let's get some sodas in there.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
He's not hosting a dinner party. If opposing counsel wants soda, he can bring his own.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
It seems like a person either has the ability to handle sex/dv defense or they don't. Personally, and I get how crazy this may sound, I don't mind it at all. In my somewhat short time I've had to cross-examine a wide range of sex/dv victims: from the lying, bitter ex-girlfriend seemingly out for revenge to the small child who has indicated that daddy or grandpa has done unspeakable things to her. My first inclination here is to dispel the misnomer that attorneys "destroy" a victim on the stand. I have never been in a position, nor have I seen other defense attorneys in the position, where it is strategically wise to "destroy" (i.e. raise one's voice, insinuate a lie, mimic anything you may see on Law and Order) a victim -- even when I believe the victim is lying. Generally, I've found very good success by following two simple rules: 1) make your point by quickly either getting out the evidence needed or impeaching then sit the hell down; and 2) don't be an ####### while doing it. To the first point, no judge, juror, or reasonable observer is going to be upset, annoyed, or disgusted by you if you are doing something meaningful like having the victim admit (or deny for impeachment later) she told a different story to the police. To the second, if you aren't an ####### one of two things are going to happen -- the victim opens up to you and you get out what you need or the victim actually comes off somewhat bad for not cooperating. Regardless, while there is nothing fun about crossing a victim (even if the victim is a gigantic liar because there is always the underlying fear then that your client may get wrongfully convicted), I feel there are much worse aspects of the job.
In this same vein, and likely again whether it is something in your personality or not, defending somebody who has been charged with heinous crimes, and through my analysis of the evidence I am firmly convinced is guilty, should be very easy. After all, in those cases you simply just remove all emotion and do your job. If the state screwed up and you achieve a positive result, then you take solace in knowing that whatever fault you may have exposed in the "system" should be improved on. If the state didn't screw up, you do your job, and your client gets convicted, then you sleep soundly knowing justice was done and what was supposed to happen happened. I'll take these cases all day. Instead, the scariest ones to me are the cases where I am firmly convinced of my client's innocence. Those are the ones that keep me up at night.
Zow
Footballguy
I probably should have specified what I meant by "positive results". In my state, generally the sentencing range for rape or murder is life in prison. The "positive results" I am talking about are, due to a mistake by the state, we are able to negotiate a prison sentence which lets the defendant see the light of day at some point and then he's on probation for the rest of his life with some very strict terms (gps monitoring, registration, etc.). So, rare is the case where a guilty person of some incredibly heinous act in the scope of which we are discussing will be free to easily rape and/or kill at some later point.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Nope. I'm thinking about the end of my career, not starting another one. That ship has sailed.
Zow
Footballguy
Not scott free or whatever you want to call it. I suppose it's possible, but generally the potential sentencing ranges are impactful enough that there is incentive to settle a case even if you're in the rare defense position where the odds are in your favor.
I can only thing of one case I've ever had where we went to trial on a pretty serious offense, got the case essentially dismissed during the trial for legal reasons for legal reasons, where if I had to guess I believe my client was guilty. But even in that case the victim, on her own accord, chose to not show up to testify at court.
One thing that a lot of people don't know is that less than 5% of all lawsuits go to trial. If you committed a rape, you're going to be looking to cut a deal more often than not. Because if you decide to swing for the fences at trial, there's more than a good chance that even if the prosecutor makes a mistake the jury is going to bury you anyway.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Those of you who did clerkships with really good judges - how much did that judge rub off on you? Did he/she heavily influence your thinking about legal issues?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Longshoreman who only spoke an obscure Italian dialect. Professional Italian translator told the court he couldn't understand a word of what the guy was saying.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I have more problems getting my kids to follow simple commands than anything I've done in dep or court.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
I've had a few who really pushed the "I don't know, I don't remember" routine. I broke all of them down except one. By the time I was done with him he was useless as a witness for them too. His company's attorney was the one who was upset with him rather than me.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Absolutely not. He may or may not have been my actual client.Think it was schtick?Longshoreman who only spoke an obscure Italian dialect. Professional Italian translator told the court he couldn't understand a word of what the guy was saying.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
We're in an age when just about everyone has an opinion. And unless they are the ones with something to hide, most will blab all day if you give them the opportunity.I have more problems getting my kids to follow simple commands than anything I've done in dep or court.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yup. Every idiot wants to prove how smart he is.We're in an age when just about everyone has an opinion. And unless they are the ones with something to hide, most will blab all day if you give them the opportunity.I have more problems getting my kids to follow simple commands than anything I've done in dep or court.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think lawyers will probably have a different view of "completely derailed." No Perry Mason moments, but plenty of times that a witness has completely destroyed a case from my perspective.Has anybody every said something in court that completely derailed yours or the opposing counsel's case?Yup. Every idiot wants to prove how smart he is.We're in an age when just about everyone has an opinion. And unless they are the ones with something to hide, most will blab all day if you give them the opportunity.I have more problems getting my kids to follow simple commands than anything I've done in dep or court.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
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Zow
Footballguy
Update: me too now! Depositions canceled. That means more time for me to bug you guys for general tips.
Zow
Footballguy
I've only ever had one "a-ha" moment (or, to quote the judge after the jury left the room and we were off record, "holy ####!") when my alibi witness, who had consistently provided the same story for over a year to investigators and recorded interviews, got on the stand and in dramatic fashion surprised all of us by changing her story and fingered my client. Thankfully, she let me impeach her pretty easily (turns out she secretly held a grudge against my client for somehow causing the witness's boyfriend to wind up in prison or some ####) and, after I quoted "A Time to Kill"s "I am young and inexperienced but please don't think I'd ever knowingly put a liar on the stand", we got an acquittal. It also helped that the prosecutor arrogantly chose not to strike to women on the jury who knew me through their husbands and had indicated in void dire that they had heard I was a good lawyer.I think lawyers will probably have a different view of "completely derailed." No Perry Mason moments, but plenty of times that a witness has completely destroyed a case from my perspective.Has anybody every said something in court that completely derailed yours or the opposing counsel's case?Yup. Every idiot wants to prove how smart he is.We're in an age when just about everyone has an opinion. And unless they are the ones with something to hide, most will blab all day if you give them the opportunity.I have more problems getting my kids to follow simple commands than anything I've done in dep or court.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Old mafia trick.Longshoreman who only spoke an obscure Italian dialect. Professional Italian translator told the court he couldn't understand a word of what the guy was saying.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
He may or may not bring me a huge bottle of liquor and a tray of cookies once a year.Old mafia trick.Longshoreman who only spoke an obscure Italian dialect. Professional Italian translator told the court he couldn't understand a word of what the guy was saying.Question: Who was the most difficult person you've ever had to depose or question on the stand? What did they do that made things difficult for you?
I'm not watching 48 minutes. Is he saying to never talk to the police or never talk to the police if they might think you were involved in some criminal activity? I don't see a reason not to talk to the police if you're standing on a street corner and witness a car blow a stop sign/red light and T-Bone a school bus killing 50 children.wdcrob said:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'm sure plenty of people would be happy to answer questions, but nobody's going to watch a 48 minute video for you so they can tell you what they think.wdcrob said:
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