Thorn
Footballguy
Yea at my firm job they scared the bejesus out of us re anything that remotely smelled like a securities offering. "We don't have coverage for that!!!"
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Thorn
Footballguy
actually I just remembered at coshole I asked you what type of stuff you did, you said "M&A," which in my head was "MNA," and then I had to ask what that was.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Zactly. I used to carry it but dropped it because it wasn't worth marketing for the non-litigation aspect of the field. Krista, figured you might not be aware of that wrinkle.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I do them too. Just finished one today. Just as worse as divorce - only different is that you aren't dealing with little kids.
Thorn
Footballguy
I assume it's just that it's so intricate, most of us aren't likely to pick it up along the way, and frankly, a wronged client is going to be sophisticated enough to notice if there is a malpractice claim available to them. We have a little bit of a spike in ours for how much transactional real estate work we do, but I don't think it's anything close toThorn, I didn't remember that so you didn't have to admit it.
Why is the malpractice insurance so particularly bad for securities work? Are there other areas of law that have that issue, too?
krista4
Footballguy
That's a great point.frankly, a wronged client is going to be sophisticated enough to notice if there is a malpractice claim available to them.Thorn, I didn't remember that so you didn't have to admit it.
Why is the malpractice insurance so particularly bad for securities work? Are there other areas of law that have that issue, too?
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
M&A lawyers love to promote this notion - its all soooo complicated and sophisticated, you really can't possibly understand all this stuff we do!I assume it's just that it's so intricate, most of us aren't likely to pick it up along the way, and frankly, a wronged client is going to be sophisticated enough to notice if there is a malpractice claim available to them. We have a little bit of a spike in ours for how much transactional real estate work we do, but I don't think it's anything close toThorn, I didn't remember that so you didn't have to admit it.
Why is the malpractice insurance so particularly bad for securities work? Are there other areas of law that have that issue, too?
krista4
Footballguy
Um, the reference was to securities law. Securities laws and regulations are indeed complicated, and some areas could be characterized as sophisticated, I suppose. M&A, on the other hand, is not complicated from a legal standpoint IMO but is much more of an art.M&A lawyers love to promote this notion - its all soooo complicated and sophisticated, you really can't possibly understand all this stuff we do!I assume it's just that it's so intricate, most of us aren't likely to pick it up along the way, and frankly, a wronged client is going to be sophisticated enough to notice if there is a malpractice claim available to them. We have a little bit of a spike in ours for how much transactional real estate work we do, but I don't think it's anything close toThorn, I didn't remember that so you didn't have to admit it.
Why is the malpractice insurance so particularly bad for securities work? Are there other areas of law that have that issue, too?
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Also, non-Louisiana lawyers should stop getting admitted pro hac in this state. It's embarrassing.
Otis
Footballguy
Krista is practicing again? Welcome back to the fray. You poor bastardess you.
Zed, a tough spot. I agree with the above that checking local bar association websites and emails is a good idea. I recognize the IP space is hot lately, but we have emails pretty regularly with job postings from local associations and the like. Maybe a lead there? It still seems to me a ln in house gig is your best bet, so I would also keep looking and trying to network there.
Final point in response to some comments in the last page or two. Yes this job can be miserable. My wife can tell if i had a particularly bad day immediately by the number of Mega Millions tickets I have in my pocket when I get home. Effing TGIF everyone.
Zed, a tough spot. I agree with the above that checking local bar association websites and emails is a good idea. I recognize the IP space is hot lately, but we have emails pretty regularly with job postings from local associations and the like. Maybe a lead there? It still seems to me a ln in house gig is your best bet, so I would also keep looking and trying to network there.
Final point in response to some comments in the last page or two. Yes this job can be miserable. My wife can tell if i had a particularly bad day immediately by the number of Mega Millions tickets I have in my pocket when I get home. Effing TGIF everyone.
krista4
Footballguy
I had less than two months of not practicing, early August to late September 2013. I've been back in the fray for over a year, but with much, much less fray.
TGIF right back atcha.
Last edited by a moderator:
OC Zed
Footballguy
I've checked and I've applied everywhere... Most places aren't looking at all for what I do and the places that are looking either deem me too experienced or ding me for not having my own book of business. I have an interview scheduled in a couple weeks with a small local firm that will likely lowball me incredibly if they do extend an offer, but that's my only possibility at the moment. Not being able to find a job can be so incredibly soul crushing and decimating to your self-worth.
In trying to think outside the legal box, I've recently contacted a bunch of executive recruiter firms about joining them and making a career change. I actually did some exec. recruiter work right before law school and it seemed alright. I'm not sure what the pay will be like though just starting out. One reputable local place contacted me yesterday for an interview next week. I'm not sure if it will go anywhere, but it is worth exploring.
Zow
Footballguy
I think this beats this defense attorney I saw make the following objection during a bench trial where the State moved to enter a piece of evidence , "Your honor, I object. It's just.... well, I don't know the objection, but... this just isn't right!"
Zow
Footballguy
So I had a Marine go off on me in Court a little bit ago because I didn't salute the flag or say the pledge of allegiance. I am the criminal defense attorney appointed to all the Veterans involved in our Vet Court (a therapeutic court, kinda like drug court but for Vets, for which my office does the defense work for at a significantly low fee) and there's this group of marines that always leads the Court in taps and the pledge or some such before Court. I always stop working, stand, and keeps my hands folded when we do it but I don't salute or say the pledge. Somebody behind me took offense and told me all court officials should be required to pledge. Made me feel badly that this guy served and he took offense, but to be honest I just find the notion of pledging my allegiance to a governmental group to be kinda silly. Nonetheless, I quickly became a lawyer scumbag and flag-burning hippie liberal in just a few moments. Yay Friday and trying to do a good deed.
Zow
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
A lawyer I've known a long time, who's also a good friend of mine, took me out for drinks last night. He's got a small transactional firm and he does some litigation, mostly bringing clients in to share with full litigation firms and splitting the fee. We work together a lot.
He told me he wanted me to join his firm as a full partner, wanted to set me up with a draw for a full year's worth of salary at my current level while my litigation portion gets rolling. That was the gist. Basically, he said he was looking to invest his money and decided his best possible investment was to bring me on as a partner. It was incredibly flattering.
I'm seriously considering. It's scary as hell.
He told me he wanted me to join his firm as a full partner, wanted to set me up with a draw for a full year's worth of salary at my current level while my litigation portion gets rolling. That was the gist. Basically, he said he was looking to invest his money and decided his best possible investment was to bring me on as a partner. It was incredibly flattering.
I'm seriously considering. It's scary as hell.
Last edited by a moderator:
Otis
Footballguy
Wow. Huge. Congrats -- sounds like an awesome opportunity.
What's your percentage salary upside? What's your downside risk? Other pros/cons?
Otis
Footballguy
Zed, a guy I summered with made the leap and has been doing this for some years. I've also come to know a few other HHs over the years. Let me know if you want me to connect you with anyone to explore this option.
Seems to me you'd also have a valuable background in the non-legal part of the banking industry. A BIL of mine got a law degree and couldn't get a law job coming out, ended up going to Moody's and doing bond rating. A few years later and his career seems to be going really well. Something like that seems like it could be a decent fit for you?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Downside risk is not having a steady paycheck after the first year. My upside potential is enormous. If it works out, I would expect to triple my take home in 3-5 years. 5x my current take home wouldn't be surprising.Pros are the ability to create exactly the firm I want from the ground up, work from home most of the time, work with my best friend, and pretty much everything except the risk of not having a steady paycheck.
I'm very risk averse following a terrible financial decision years ago in starting a similar partnership. It's kept me in a job where I'm making a fraction of what I'm worth with zero prestige.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
If the only risk is steady paycheck do it and don't look back. Best decision i ever made.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
It'll take between six months and a year to deal with the logistics of what he needs to do and what I need to do to set up what we talked about, but if it all comes to fruition I think I'm going to.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'd give my chance of succeeding - getting things to a point where I'm making a minimum of what I make now - at probably 90% or more. And if that doesn't work, I can take contract work during slow times.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
He's essentially a solo practitioner right now, though he has a firm, some support staff, etc.On my end I need to see his financials, set up a passthrough corp to be the partner in the business, and complete a few cases I have going on with my current firm that I can't take with me and need to handle. The split with my current firm will end badly.
Also, given that he's not a litigator, his operating accounts aren't equipped to handle plaintiff work right now. We both need to heavily contribute to something to be able to afford to hire experts, etc.
Last edited by a moderator:
That's the tough part with plaintiff's contingency work. I took on a great case but now have to come up with about $15k in the next 2 months for a valuation expert.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yep. Costs and expenses are huge outlays.
Zow
Footballguy
No brainer then. Especially if you're on a draw.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah expert expenses are a killer sometimes.
Otis
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
In my ignorance I had assumed that every state had long since gone to no fault divorce.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I am, with the exception of my LHWCA work, which is hourly by law. But the defendants end up paying that.MedMal, discrimination, civil rights, PI, Jones Act, insurance law, etc.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Thanks, ya, I might be interested in speaking with them - particularly if they are on the retainer-based and/or executive (not exclusively legal) side. The market is saturated with the contingency guys so it's always feast or famine for them which is what I'm trying to move away from at the moment. I've actually applied to a few of those places too, but haven't received any interest back unfortunately.Otis said:
I'm very open to getting back into the banking world, but the local jobs are more of the traditional commercial/retail banking (not really the i-banking/credit rating stuff) which don't necessarily translate well with my background. It's a possibility, but it would be a pretty significant pay cut for a lot of the positions I would be considered for. I wouldn't rule it out down the road, but I'd prefer to get something that allows me to pay the mortgage and keep the house.
The executive retainer-based headhunter route seemed interesting to me as it seems like relatively low barriers for entry... I already have a basic familiarity with the real estate, banking and legal industries which I can leverage a lot of existing contacts without needing years of technical experience of the jobs themselves.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I'm assistant general counsel of a large real estate firm. We deal exclusively in multifamily housing. I'm in charge of litigation oversight now and plaintiff attorneys are the bane of my existence.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Summer Employment thoughts:
Any money I make above $6000 and taxes will reduce my tuition fellowships, and if I take non-paid work Stanford will give me a fellowship to pay housing and food all summer (except for a judicial externship). Just wanted that thought up front, so don't tell me firm work b/c money, as I break even after they reduce my tuition fellowship by the amounts I would make.
Options:
Any money I make above $6000 and taxes will reduce my tuition fellowships, and if I take non-paid work Stanford will give me a fellowship to pay housing and food all summer (except for a judicial externship). Just wanted that thought up front, so don't tell me firm work b/c money, as I break even after they reduce my tuition fellowship by the amounts I would make.
Options:
- A non-profit in DC that interests me, and should give me the chance to do quite a bit of writing. Upside: I know people in DC and may be able to pocket some of the summer fellowship and use on tuition next year.
- U.S. Attorney's office summer internships (unpaid). Should give the opportunity to see what criminal work is like, and most likely option to get me into a courtroom, it seems. I don't think I want to do gov/crim work, but finding out for sure would be nice.
- Go through b-school and some of my contacts for an MBB consulting summer internship. Uphill battle b/c I am so far from graduation.
- Firm job - uphill for same reasons as MBB, and the financial upside is severely apped b/c of the reduction in tuition fellowship. On the bright side, I have heard there isn't really much work involved (lol)
- Try to network my way into a position with an NBA or other pro sports team. Found one with the Pacers that actually seems like a really good fit in bball ops. Rare to find. Would be unpaid though, and I wouldn't get the fellowship.
- Some other, as of yet unknown, idea.
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Take something in the field you want to work in, or in a field you'll kick yourself for never trying out. So... either the DC non-profit or the Pacers gig.
Zow
Footballguy
More like a "Hey, let me get advice from you guys regarding choices you never had because I'm so damn awesome thread" thread.
That said, I'd echo what Ford said. If you're at all interested in criminal stuff, the US attorney gig is the choice. I did a PDO internship my first summer and it basically spring boarded me to my current position and I loved every minute of it - had easily the most interesting summer of my peers. But, that's me. And, frankly, I'd probably have taken the Pacers job despite the drawbacks that isn't it law and you lose the stipend.
krista4
Footballguy
Pacers job if you can. First, it's the toughest area to break into, and second, while people have said you've been all over the map in terms of your future (which I actually think is perfectly understandable), you have been consistently interested in sports agency or other sports-related law from the get-go.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I (sorta) knew a guy in college that did some unpaid gigs with baseball teams while everybody else was worried about making money and preparing for "real" jobs. It worked out extremely well for him. I think you should pursue your sports dream.
Gawain
Footballguy
Has the SA program bounced back to where you don't have to do anything? We actually had to work and I think 50% of the SA class got no-offered. (Summer of 2009).
I went in after hearing stories of cushy 2L jobs where you're making 3K a week and have 1 project for the summer. Firm made it very clear that ITE, they were getting all they could for us.
I went in after hearing stories of cushy 2L jobs where you're making 3K a week and have 1 project for the summer. Firm made it very clear that ITE, they were getting all they could for us.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Back in 2000 when I was a summer associate it was pretty awesome. They let me do work for my journal and counted it as hours worked on assignments. I don't think things are like that now.
That was my experience, except they still didn't bill anything for our time. Just wanted to see how everyone handled a realistic associate schedule.
Similar threads
