The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

Topic of the day for our resident 3Ls: "Discretionary Immunity." Learn it well.

I've missed you. No h0m0.

[Henry Ford 60,520]

Topic of the day for our resident 3Ls: "Discretionary Immunity." Learn it well.

I've missed you. No h0m0.

[Christo 6,185]

I love it when supposedly sophisticated clients "reply all" when I bcc them.

That's on you. Never bcc a client. Send the e-mail. Then forward the copy in your sent folder if you want the client to see it.

Laugh it up, Perry Mason. I'm not the one with the sophisticated clients who "reply all" when they're bcc'd.

[ClownCausedChaos2 5,570]

Topic of the day for our resident 3Ls: "Discretionary Immunity." Learn it well.

I've missed you. No h0m0.

He really did. He PMed me. It was awful.

I just assumed Eminence's mom had hired you to perform a standup routine at his 19th birthday party.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

Where's Henry Ford?

Look for the most empty, godforsaken area in all of south Louisiana. Now find a way to move slightly farther away from anything resembling a democrat. I'm roughly there. Have been for a week and a half, will be for another week at least.

Good lord, Leeville.

Poor man.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SaintsInDome2006

[Henry Ford 60,520]

Where's Henry Ford?

Look for the most empty, godforsaken area in all of south Louisiana. Now find a way to move slightly farther away from anything resembling a democrat. I'm roughly there. Have been for a week and a half, will be for another week at least.

Good lord, Leeville.

Poor man.

Close.

[Thorn 3,037]

I love it when supposedly sophisticated clients "reply all" when I bcc them.

That's on you. Never bcc a client. Send the e-mail. Then forward the copy in your sent folder if you want the client to see it.

Laugh it up, Perry Mason. I'm not the one with the sophisticated clients who "reply all" when they're bcc'd.

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

So, you know what sucks about trial prep?

Everything.

[Christo 6,185]

So, you know what sucks about trial prep?

Everything.

Yep. I've been on trial for over a week. Just finished my 24th straight day in the office. Two more to go.

[Henry Ford 60,520]

So, you know what sucks about trial prep?

Everything.

Yep. I've been on trial for over a week. Just finished my 24th straight day in the office. Two more to go.

Hooray!

My trial ended today. I'm so #####ing tired.

[Christo 6,185]

So, you know what sucks about trial prep?

Everything.

Yep. I've been on trial for over a week. Just finished my 24th straight day in the office. Two more to go.

Hooray!

My trial ended today. I'm so #####ing tired.

Yep. Now I have about two weeks to get caught up on everything I let slide and then it's post trial briefs! Yay!

I didn't tell my client what was coming because I wanted him focused through the whole thing. When we started discussing what the judge wanted for post-trial briefs today the look on his face could have stopped a truck. He thought it was going to be over today.

[Zow 8,541]

What is a post trial brief? Never heard of that. Like a written close?

[Christo 6,185]

What is a post trial brief? Never heard of that. Like a written close?

Bench trial. The judge wants proposed findings of fact with citations to the trial transcript/documents and proposed conclusions of law. It's essentially a motion for summary judgment but using the trial testimony rather than deposition testimony. But the judge also has the advantage of having been able to assess the demeanor of the witnesses.

[Judge Smails 3,622]

Questioning the handling of stock payouts (vesting). There were so many documents as changes were made in vesting schedules, etc. I don't think I have everything - may not have received copies back after I signed. After leaving the company, do I have the right to ask for every executed document they have on file for me re stock?

Also, though I had 2 1/2 years in of a 4 year vesting schedule no action has taken place 5 months later. There was no timeline for me to exercise the stock upon termination, just the right for them to buy it back as a good leaver or bad leaver within 90 days. So far I've received nothing from them. Thoughts?

[Zow 8,541]

What is a post trial brief? Never heard of that. Like a written close?

Bench trial. The judge wants proposed findings of fact with citations to the trial transcript/documents and proposed conclusions of law. It's essentially a motion for summary judgment but using the trial testimony rather than deposition testimony. But the judge also has the advantage of having been able to assess the demeanor of the witnesses.

Interesting. I think I like that.

[Zow 8,541]

I have a real, pure office day today.

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

What's even worse than trial prep? Doing the pre and then having the date moved by the court. Always awesome.

Ok, so that case goes on the back burner. Need to now focus on another trial that starts.................... holy **** next week. Um. Yeah, not ready for that one. Thankfully, no one is. I hope. And I pray. Because I have to move a boulder up a really really really high hill and my adversary only has to throw pebbles at me while I'm doing it.

[Zow 8,541]

What's even worse than trial prep? Doing the pre and then having the date moved by the court. Always awesome.

Ok, so that case goes on the back burner. Need to now focus on another trial that starts.................... holy **** next week. Um. Yeah, not ready for that one. Thankfully, no one is. I hope. And I pray. Because I have to move a boulder up a really really really high hill and my adversary only has to throw pebbles at me while I'm doing it.

Words that can be so nice (if you wish you had more time to prep evidence) or oh so terrible (if you're prepped and just want the damn thing over with) at the top of a minute order: "Due to a conflict in the court's calendar..."

I get it. Trials often move so double-setting or setting on dates where the Court knows it's likely unavailable is sometimes necessary. But dammit why should we all be inconvenienced the day of just because the judge decides he or she wants to attend some judicial meeting?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Zow

[Aerial Assault 2,385]

What's even worse than trial prep? Doing the pre and then having the date moved by the court. Always awesome.

Ok, so that case goes on the back burner. Need to now focus on another trial that starts.................... holy **** next week. Um. Yeah, not ready for that one. Thankfully, no one is. I hope. And I pray. Because I have to move a boulder up a really really really high hill and my adversary only has to throw pebbles at me while I'm doing it.

Words that can be so nice (if you wish you had more time to prep evidence) or oh so terrible (if you're prepped and just want the damn thing over with) at the top of a minute order: "Due to a conflict in the court's calendar..."

I get it. Trials often move so double-setting or setting on dates where the Court knows it's likely unavailable is sometimes necessary. But dammit why should we all be unconvinced the day of just because the judge decides he or she wants to attend some judicial meeting?

Yup. I have two set for late April and mid-May and I would lay some serious odds that the first is continued in a minute order without much explanation, smack dab into the middle of the second. Luckily I'll have a final pretrial conference on the first one at which I can make this clear, and hope it works. Oof.

[Zow 8,541]

What's even worse than trial prep? Doing the pre and then having the date moved by the court. Always awesome.

Ok, so that case goes on the back burner. Need to now focus on another trial that starts.................... holy **** next week. Um. Yeah, not ready for that one. Thankfully, no one is. I hope. And I pray. Because I have to move a boulder up a really really really high hill and my adversary only has to throw pebbles at me while I'm doing it.

Words that can be so nice (if you wish you had more time to prep evidence) or oh so terrible (if you're prepped and just want the damn thing over with) at the top of a minute order: "Due to a conflict in the court's calendar..."

I get it. Trials often move so double-setting or setting on dates where the Court knows it's likely unavailable is sometimes necessary. But dammit why should we all be unconvinced the day of just because the judge decides he or she wants to attend some judicial meeting?

Yup. I have two set for late April and mid-May and I would lay some serious odds that the first is continued in a minute order without much explanation, smack dab into the middle of the second. Luckily I'll have a final pretrial conference on the first one at which I can make this clear, and hope it works. Oof.

Does your jurisdiction permit you to do a "notice of conflicting court dates" and basically let the judges fight it out ahead of time over who gets to have you in their courtroom to do the trial when trials overlap? That's been my saving grace for these situations.

[Aerial Assault 2,385]

What's even worse than trial prep? Doing the pre and then having the date moved by the court. Always awesome.

Ok, so that case goes on the back burner. Need to now focus on another trial that starts.................... holy **** next week. Um. Yeah, not ready for that one. Thankfully, no one is. I hope. And I pray. Because I have to move a boulder up a really really really high hill and my adversary only has to throw pebbles at me while I'm doing it.

Words that can be so nice (if you wish you had more time to prep evidence) or oh so terrible (if you're prepped and just want the damn thing over with) at the top of a minute order: "Due to a conflict in the court's calendar..."

I get it. Trials often move so double-setting or setting on dates where the Court knows it's likely unavailable is sometimes necessary. But dammit why should we all be unconvinced the day of just because the judge decides he or she wants to attend some judicial meeting?

Yup. I have two set for late April and mid-May and I would lay some serious odds that the first is continued in a minute order without much explanation, smack dab into the middle of the second. Luckily I'll have a final pretrial conference on the first one at which I can make this clear, and hope it works. Oof.

Does your jurisdiction permit you to do a "notice of conflicting court dates" and basically let the judges fight it out ahead of time over who gets to have you in their courtroom to do the trial when trials overlap? That's been my saving grace for these situations.

In theory, sort of, but in practice, not so much. Two different jurisdictions involved here, as well.

[-fish- 13,791]

I have an opposition to a summary judgment due at the end of the week. I've had a motion to compel discovery responses pending with the court for about 10 days now, with no ruling. If the motion to compel is granted, the summary judgment motion will need to be continued.

Since the judge won't rule, I need to write the opposition without the benefit of complete discovery responses. Yay.

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

I have an opposition to a summary judgment due at the end of the week. I've had a motion to compel discovery responses pending with the court for about 10 days now, with no ruling. If the motion to compel is granted, the summary judgment motion will need to be continued.

Since the judge won't rule, I need to write the opposition without the benefit of complete discovery responses. Yay.

Love that.

I have a particular motion sitting on some judges desk for, not kidding, 6 months now and they just won't schedule it or call me back when I call to find out why they wont schedule it. It's really enough to make you scream sometimes. Of course, this is the same court that chastized me for a discvoery extension motion because the case was old enough. Huh? WTF?

[Aerial Assault 2,385]

I have an opposition to a summary judgment due at the end of the week. I've had a motion to compel discovery responses pending with the court for about 10 days now, with no ruling. If the motion to compel is granted, the summary judgment motion will need to be continued.

Since the judge won't rule, I need to write the opposition without the benefit of complete discovery responses. Yay.

You may not be in federal court, but check out F.R.Civ.P. 56(d) (allowing a nonmovant on an MSJ to call the exact dilemma you describe to the court's attention and ask for relief) and see if your state has an analogue. California does.

[Spin 1,014]

Need some advice on who to contact. Started my own company. Some friends that are in the same line of business have expressed leaving and coming to join me. They're currently based in KY and I'm based in TN. They all three work for the same company and signed the same noncompete. They also have a client who's contract is up at end of April they know will follow them to my company. Who do I talk to ensure we're not liable to being sued? Lawyer in TN or KY? Their noncompete specifically says states of Indiana, Kentucky and Florida and the client in particular is based in Illinois. There is also a clause about nonsolicitation of other employees.

[Otis 13,396]

Otis just back in the office from a huge trial win. Got stunning reviews from one of our biggest clients and my senior partners for my performance on my feet at trial. Really glowing stuff, and this comes after there were serious doubts (and management approval required at the client) about have a guy in his 30s up on his feet at trial, for a client who typically only has more senior lawyers doing that work. I blew them away. It's the kind of thing that really expands your reputation, and got some incredible comments from some of the best trial lawyers in the country (one of whom had been telling everyone who will listen that I'm one of the top ten trial lawyers in my law firm--pretty amazing).

A few grueling weeks, and the most stressed I have ever been in my entire life (the morning before I had to do some key crosses and directs, I got down on my knees in my hotel room and prayed--and I'm not a religious guy). Couldn't have gone any better.

Sometimes this career just grinds you down, wears you out, and treads years off your life with stress and headaches. Every now and then there is just enough ROI to keep you coming back.

Keep on lawyerin, gang...

[Otis 13,396]

So, you know what sucks about trial prep?

Everything.

Yep. I've been on trial for over a week. Just finished my 24th straight day in the office. Two more to go.

Hooray!

My trial ended today. I'm so #####ing tired.

[Zow 8,541]

Nice job, Otis!

Winning is fun.

[CletiusMaximus 8,911]

Need some advice on who to contact. Started my own company. Some friends that are in the same line of business have expressed leaving and coming to join me. They're currently based in KY and I'm based in TN. They all three work for the same company and signed the same noncompete. They also have a client who's contract is up at end of April they know will follow them to my company. Who do I talk to ensure we're not liable to being sued? Lawyer in TN or KY? Their noncompete specifically says states of Indiana, Kentucky and Florida and the client in particular is based in Illinois. There is also a clause about nonsolicitation of other employees.

Find a good local labor/employment lawyer and get a consultation. Most likely it will be the individuals being sued and not your company, but you'll want to understand the risks and potential costs involved in taking them on. In many cases, the new employer will indemnify new hires for legal costs associated with a non-compete defense. Don't assume anything. I recently reviewed non-competes for several employees of the same company, a sophisticated company with strong in-house counsel which I know to be represented by one of the largest firms in the country, and I am certain the non-competes are unenforceable in our state. That doesn't mean we won't have a lawsuit and some costs, potentially significant - that's still very possible.

[Spin 1,014]

Need some advice on who to contact. Started my own company. Some friends that are in the same line of business have expressed leaving and coming to join me. They're currently based in KY and I'm based in TN. They all three work for the same company and signed the same noncompete. They also have a client who's contract is up at end of April they know will follow them to my company. Who do I talk to ensure we're not liable to being sued? Lawyer in TN or KY? Their noncompete specifically says states of Indiana, Kentucky and Florida and the client in particular is based in Illinois. There is also a clause about nonsolicitation of other employees.

Find a good local labor/employment lawyer and get a consultation. Most likely it will be the individuals being sued and not your company, but you'll want to understand the risks and potential costs involved in taking them on. In many cases, the new employer will indemnify new hires for legal costs associated with a non-compete defense. Don't assume anything. I recently reviewed non-competes for several employees of the same company, a sophisticated company with strong in-house counsel which I know to be represented by one of the largest firms in the country, and I am certain the non-competes are unenforceable in our state. That doesn't mean we won't have a lawsuit and some costs, potentially significant - that's still very possible.

Thanks Cletius, by local do you mean local to the old company where they work now (KY) or local to where my company is based (TN)

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

Yeah, this trial prep sucks. Truly truly sucks. Hate this case and everyone involved with it more than I can relate in simple words.

[CletiusMaximus 8,911]

Need some advice on who to contact. Started my own company. Some friends that are in the same line of business have expressed leaving and coming to join me. They're currently based in KY and I'm based in TN. They all three work for the same company and signed the same noncompete. They also have a client who's contract is up at end of April they know will follow them to my company. Who do I talk to ensure we're not liable to being sued? Lawyer in TN or KY? Their noncompete specifically says states of Indiana, Kentucky and Florida and the client in particular is based in Illinois. There is also a clause about nonsolicitation of other employees.

Find a good local labor/employment lawyer and get a consultation. Most likely it will be the individuals being sued and not your company, but you'll want to understand the risks and potential costs involved in taking them on. In many cases, the new employer will indemnify new hires for legal costs associated with a non-compete defense. Don't assume anything. I recently reviewed non-competes for several employees of the same company, a sophisticated company with strong in-house counsel which I know to be represented by one of the largest firms in the country, and I am certain the non-competes are unenforceable in our state. That doesn't mean we won't have a lawsuit and some costs, potentially significant - that's still very possible.

Thanks Cletius, by local do you mean local to the old company where they work now (KY) or local to where my company is based (TN)

I meant local to you and your company. A short consultation with a good lawyer should give you a basic understanding of the circumstances you and the prospective employees face. I think most small businesses can benefit from establishing a good relationship with a general business lawyer - a small office that can handle basic corporate matters, employment issues, contracting, leases, commercial disputes, etc.

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

Trial done. Client did better than I expected. Honestly have no idea how or why. Whole thing is a blur.

I know i made the judges secretary laugh. I remember that. Everything else is a fog.

[NCCommish 7,522]

Trial done. Client did better than I expected. Honestly have no idea how or why. Whole thing is a blur.

I know i made the judges secretary laugh. I remember that. Everything else is a fog.

Always leave them laughing

[-fish- 13,791]

I have a case where I'm seeking a writ quo warranto. What's that you say? You've never heard of such a thing? Neither has anyone else, but it's buried deep in Washington statutes. I think I'm going to like this case.

[Christo 6,185]

I have a case where I'm seeking a writ quo warranto. What's that you say? You've never heard of such a thing? Neither has anyone else, but it's buried deep in Washington statutes. I think I'm going to like this case.

Interesting. It's essentially the opposite of a writ of mandamus.

[-fish- 13,791]

I have a case where I'm seeking a writ quo warranto. What's that you say? You've never heard of such a thing? Neither has anyone else, but it's buried deep in Washington statutes. I think I'm going to like this case.

Interesting. It's essentially the opposite of a writ of mandamus.

someday, this will come up and you'll think, "I can do that weird thing that that dude at FBG tried" and you'll baffle the #### out of your opposition.

[Zow 8,541]

So you know those never ending family law cases where both sides have polar opposite positions and hate each other which such a passion that the case drags on until each side throws their hands up, we try the case, the judge yells at each parties and inevitably splits the decision pissing both sides off?

Yeah I thought I had one of those. Opposing counsel and I set it for private mediation as a last ditch effort with the hopes of resolving one or two issues at best. Well, I should have played the lottery Friday b/c both sides came in reasonable and we resolved entire case in two hours. Other side and I looked at each other with shock and I have never typed a stipulated order up so fast.

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

Nice

[McGarnicle 11,112]

Very interesting thread to read even for an outsider.

[Instinctive 489]

I have absolutely no desire to study property right now. Final on Monday. One of the major downsides of this quarter system is an extra set of finals. Just thought I'd share.

[njherdfan 140]

I have absolutely no desire to study property right now. Final on Monday. One of the major downsides of this quarter system is an extra set of finals. Just thought I'd share.

Make sure to use the word "enfeoff" and the phrase "livery of seisin" and you're guaranteed at least an A-.

[Instinctive 489]

I have absolutely no desire to study property right now. Final on Monday. One of the major downsides of this quarter system is an extra set of finals. Just thought I'd share.

Make sure to use the word "enfeoff" and the phrase "livery of seisin" and you're guaranteed at least an A-.

Honors grade for 30%, everyone else gets a Pass. Part of the reason I'm not super motivated. Between the GSB's non-disclosure of grades policy and SLS's H/P system...meh.

[Christo 6,185]

Then why study?

[Instinctive 489]

Then why study?

Pride. Pride is a #####. I still really want to do the best that I can, even though intellectually I know it's kind of a tired exercise. I'm looking at the studying as cementing some of the things I've learned for the sake of learning them, rather than for the sake of doing well on an exam. Makes it a little easier. Seems more useful that way.

[Zow 8,541]

Yeah dude I don't remember #### from property.

[-fish- 13,791]

I saw a rule of perpetuities reference in a covenant a few weeks ago that said something about 99 years from the death of the last living decendent of queen Elizabeth 1

Edited March 15, 2015 by -fish-

[thecatch 2,214]

I have absolutely no desire to study property right now. Final on Monday. One of the major downsides of this quarter system is an extra set of finals. Just thought I'd share.

Make sure to use the word "enfeoff" and the phrase "livery of seisin" and you're guaranteed at least an A-.

Honors grade for 30%, everyone else gets a Pass. Part of the reason I'm not super motivated. Between the GSB's non-disclosure of grades policy and SLS's H/P system...meh.

Pretty sure he was joking.

[thecatch 2,214]

Yeah dude I don't remember #### from property.

I didn't think I would have to, but one of my first cases in private practice was a multi million dollar dispute involving covenants running with the land. I was frequently consulting my 1L outline for a while.

[Ramsay Hunt Experience 19,303]

Yeah dude I don't remember #### from property.

I didn't think I would have to, but one of my first cases in private practice was a multi million dollar dispute involving covenants running with the land. I was frequently consulting my 1L outline for a while.

Not at all uncommon in a business litigation practice where you represent developers.