Derek Carr...Lost in the shuffle? Big 4?

[LionOfGosforth 183]

3 hours ago, bumpman said:

He looks terrified out there.  There were at least four passes last night that he threw away with little pressure on him and were so bad they looked like intentional grounding even though they officially weren't. 

He's freakin hopeless. I only needed 1 TD from him last night and he couldn't even do that.

[ffldrew 3,236]

3 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

Even I, the guy with a glass half-to-three-quarters-full on Carr, saw a very tentative, scared, poor-decision-making QB out there last night.

That might change against lesser Ds and more reps in this offense, but definitely can start eating crow on my preseason call on him potentially being a Top 15 -- I don't see it happening this year based on what I saw last night.

Von Miller and Co awaiting at 5280 feet above sea level for him - he better get his big boy pants ready.

[Faust 5,300]

Raiders coach Jon Gruden gave Derek Carr a vote of confidence at his Tuesday press conference.

"(I) don’t have any doubts that Derek Carr is going to be great and I can’t wait to get started and get ready for the Broncos," Gruden said. "Knowing how good Derek is, it gives us hope that we can get it all solved." Carr actually got off to a strong start against the Rams, completing 20-of-24 passes for 199 yards in the first half, but had a complete meltdown after the break, tossing a pair of unspeakably bad interceptions. Carr was feeling pressure that wasn't there and seemed scared to throw deep. It was concerning to watch. Things are not going to get easier against Von Miller and the Broncos in Week 2.

Source: Paul Gutierrez on Twitter 

Sep 11 - 4:25 PM

[LawFitz 1,079]

Listed as questionable today on Yahoo. Anybody know anything more about this?

[Arodin 3,083]

1 minute ago, LawFitz said:

Listed as questionable today on Yahoo. Anybody know anything more about this?

Either:

a) It’s Yahoo...the are sloppy with injury designations and that Q is a carryover from his “questionable to return” from the middle of last night’s game.

OR

b) It’s Yahoo...they are lazy with injuy designations and flag anyone with the remotest possibility of having a not-yet-disclosed injury is marked as Q until some more reliable news aggregator posts a confirmatory source.

Or maybe all of the above...

[Pigskin Fanatic 582]

CBS also has him Questionable with "General Soreness." Of the ego?

Quote

4 hrs ago | by RotoWire Staff

Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said Carr is dealing with some soreness after the team's 33-13 loss to the Rams on Monday, Matt Kawahara of the San Francisco Chronicle reports.

Gruden didn't specify where exactly the quarterback is aching, but it's worth noting that Carr seemed to be hurting after taking a low hit from All-Pro defensive tackle Aaron Donald early in the contest. The soreness didn't prevent Carr from finishing out the Week 1 loss, but he took another hard hit in the fourth quarter that could result in the 27-year-old's reps being managed carefully during the upcoming week. It's not expected that Carr is in any serious danger of sitting out Sunday in Denver, where he'll have nowhere to go but up after throwing three interceptions and turning in a 62.8 quarterback rating in the season opener.

eta: the play in the bolded part did look like he tweaked the knee sideways a bit. someone posted during the game in the game thread. it wasn't a dirty play since he was falling down, but Donald went into the left knee with his helmet. could have been really bad.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Pigskin Fanatic

[BoltBacker 1,512]

On 8/17/2018 at 0:33 AM, Faust said:

Derek Carr has shown mastery of Jon Gruden’s scheme in short time

Didn't bother reading this article until today. Interesting read.

[Faust 5,300]

Quote

Raiders coach Jon Gruden called out Derek Carr explicitly for turning down open throws.

Carr played tentatively for the entire 2017 season, but it was widely chalked up to a back injury. He continued to play tentatively bordering on afraid in Monday night's loss to the Rams, and Gruden called out Carr for not pulling the trigger to open wide receivers. "(Amari) Cooper was open deep, he was open a couple times," Gruden said after watching the All-22 tape. "For whatever reason, we didn't go there." This is a head coach publicly criticizing his quarterback, not a common occurrence in today's league. If Carr doesn't improve Sunday in Denver, his leash may begin to shorten.

Source: Vic Tafur on Twitter 

Sep 12 - 8:32 PM

 

[BoltBacker 1,512]

10 hours ago, Faust said:

Gruden called out Carr for not pulling the trigger to open wide receivers. "(Amari) Cooper was open deep, he was open a couple times," Gruden said after watching the All-22 tape. "For whatever reason, we didn't go there." This is a head coach publicly criticizing his quarterback, not a common occurrence in today's league. If Carr doesn't improve Sunday in Denver, his leash may begin to shorten.

I wonder what this even means.

Carr inked his deal not long ago, in most cases that would make him the guy that stays and the HC the guy that goes if there was a rift. But Gruden also has an incredible deal in oak(makes you wonder how oak can hand out all these deals when they have no money for the best defensive player in football... but I digress). So imo NEITHER of these guys is going anywhere soon. Does Rotoworld honestly think they are just going to come closer to putting all that $ on the bench in the near future if Carr has another bad game? To start AJ McCaron?

Of course, it also doesn't make much sense for a HC to call out his franchise QB(by contract at least) for avoiding challenging CB's the week before they travel to denver. People seemed to be piling on to Gruden way too early this off-season but the last week or two is completely befuddling.

[BoltBacker 1,512]

Maybe Gruden needs to release Carr after all. And then re-sign him a week later. 

A week ago he didn't want Bryant on his team and he couldn't learn the playbook. Today Gruden said this, "I think he’s healthy. I think he’s ready to go," the coach continued. "I’ve said it before: when he’s right, he can be a difference maker and we’re hoping he can be one sooner rather than later."

Seems like a week or two long vacation from Gruden does wonders!

[Charlie Harper 1,182]

1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I wonder what this even means.

Carr inked his deal not long ago, in most cases that would make him the guy that stays and the HC the guy that goes if there was a rift. But Gruden also has an incredible deal in oak(makes you wonder how oak can hand out all these deals when they have no money for the best defensive player in football... but I digress). So imo NEITHER of these guys is going anywhere soon. Does Rotoworld honestly think they are just going to come closer to putting all that $ on the bench in the near future if Carr has another bad game? To start AJ McCaron?

Of course, it also doesn't make much sense for a HC to call out his franchise QB(by contract at least) for avoiding challenging CB's the week before they travel to denver. People seemed to be piling on to Gruden way too early this off-season but the last week or two is completely befuddling.

I'm pretty sure whatever Gruden said to the media, he already told Carr to his face. I'm also pretty sure if fans and commentators are pointing out how afraid Carr looks....then Carr should appreciate the honesty of his coach. Gruden isn't throwing Carr under the bus, if the entire world knows it's true.

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

On 9/11/2018 at 2:19 PM, ffldrew said:

Von Miller and Co awaiting at 5280 feet above sea level for him - he better get his big boy pants ready.

I am not saying Carr will play lights out, but he was efficient in the first half against the Rams and just needs to avoid the costly mistakes he made in the second.

But c'mon now.

This is a hated division rival we're playing on the road, where the Raiders desperately need a win to keep up and remain relevant in the division, let alone have any prayer at playoff contention.

You better believe Carr and Co. are all going to show up ready to rumble. Their season depends on it.

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

Maybe Gruden forgot he was the HC and reverted back to his analyst days.  There is no excuse for a HC going public with stuff like this unless he’s preparing to jettison his starting QB.

[BoltBacker 1,512]

6 hours ago, Charlie Harper said:

I'm pretty sure whatever Gruden said to the media, he already told Carr to his face. I'm also pretty sure if fans and commentators are pointing out how afraid Carr looks....then Carr should appreciate the honesty of his coach. Gruden isn't throwing Carr under the bus, if the entire world knows it's true.

I think most players appreciate the honesty of their coach..... but there is still no reason for their coach to call them out publicly in front of the media. I DO NOT think players appreciate that. Especially if what they are being called out is completely true. The Gruden/Carr marriage is going to be long if not loving one just based on the amount of $ involved. 

[LawFitz 1,079]

5 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

The Gruden/Carr marriage is going to be long if not loving one just based on the amount of $ involved. 

Actually, Carr's contract was written with most of the guaranteed monies upfront. The Raiders can get out of it after this season for a $7.5 MM dead cap hit or the following season for a $5 MM cap hit. I truly believe Gruden wants to make it work with Carr, but if we get a season of what we saw in the 2nd half of Monday night's game, the Raiders have an out, especially when you consider the draft capital they accumulated. Crazy, I know.

[Manster 822]

6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I am not saying Carr will play lights out, but he was efficient in the first half against the Rams and just needs to avoid the costly mistakes he made in the second.

But c'mon now.

This is a hated division rival we're playing on the road, where the Raiders desperately need a win to keep up and remain relevant in the division, let alone have any prayer at playoff contention.

You better believe Carr and Co. are all going to show up ready to rumble. Their season depends on it.

So would you say it was playing the Rams D that made him look jumpy and rattled?  I know we heard the game plan was to get rid of quick to TE/RB, but he did not look like a veteran QB who is in control of his offense, imo.....I will be watching this weekend, and be hopeful that he looks more the part of a franchise QB, but I'm not super confident goin to Denver.

[BoltBacker 1,512]

5 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Actually, Carr's contract was written with most of the guaranteed monies upfront. The Raiders can get out of it after this season for a $7.5 MM dead cap hit or the following season for a $5 MM cap hit. I truly believe Gruden wants to make it work with Carr, but if we get a season of what we saw in the 2nd half of Monday night's game, the Raiders have an out, especially when you consider the draft capital they accumulated. Crazy, I know.

You make a good point about the draft capital, although if need to hit on QB's and pass rushers with all your picks to replace the guys you drove out of town that draft capital can dry up pretty quick. Not every one of those guys works out. Plenty of franchises spend multiple picks to find a QB. How many shots will it take to find the next Mack?

[Charlie Harper 1,182]

44 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

You make a good point about the draft capital, although if need to hit on QB's and pass rushers with all your picks to replace the guys you drove out of town that draft capital can dry up pretty quick. Not every one of those guys works out. Plenty of franchises spend multiple picks to find a QB. How many shots will it take to find the next Mack?

Unfortunately for the Raiders they drafted a stud DE and stud QB in the same draft so they couldn't pay to keep them both since Reggie blew just about every other draft pick. 

Sucks that when teams do draft studs, they can't keep them very long due to the hard cap and parity.

Honestly, I'd rather have a soft cap where you can resign your drafted studs.

[LawFitz 1,079]

1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

You make a good point about the draft capital, although if need to hit on QB's and pass rushers with all your picks to replace the guys you drove out of town that draft capital can dry up pretty quick. Not every one of those guys works out. Plenty of franchises spend multiple picks to find a QB. How many shots will it take to find the next Mack?

I drove no one out of town. I wanted to keep Mack. Unfortunately, he was too selfish too take a more team friendly deal and the Raiders were too soft to play hardball despite controlling him for three more years.

Besides, I thought we were discussing Carr.

[Faust 5,300]

Quote

Raiders coach Jon Gruden thinks Derek Carr was "too aggressive" late against the Dolphins.

Carr made a questionable decision to target Martavis Bryant in the end zone late in the game, and Xavien Howard came away with the interception. "I think at times he is trying too hard," Gruden said of his quarterback. "I’m really excited about the way he has played and improved and mastered this offense. We are getting closer. That was a painful turnover. We will address that, and we will make the corrections." Carr has quietly played well the last couple weeks, but he has just two touchdowns and two interceptions to show for it in those games.

Source: NBC Sports Bay Area 

Sep 25 - 9:54 AM

 

[DocHolliday 4,076]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 6:10 PM, BoltBacker said:

You make a good point about the draft capital, although if need to hit on QB's and pass rushers with all your picks to replace the guys you drove out of town that draft capital can dry up pretty quick. Not every one of those guys works out. Plenty of franchises spend multiple picks to find a QB. How many shots will it take to find the next Mack?

Are the Raiders really going to be the new Browns since this reminds me of what the Browns went through for many years?  The Browns could not find a QB for what feels like forever.  The draft is very unpredictable.  I believe I just read this week that Baker is the 30th starting QB in Cleveland since 1999.  Baker looked good last week but it is too early to know how he is going to work out.  The Browns did find Garrett for their D but have been absolutely awful in the process of rebuilding.  They gave up players to keep gathering draft capitol which means the losses and misery piles up.   

[SaintsInDome2006 47,479]

11 hours ago, Faust said:

Raiders coach Jon Gruden thinks Derek Carr was "too aggressive" late against the Dolphins.

There's something screwy with this team's playcalling. 

[BoltBacker 1,512]

2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Are the Raiders really going to be the new Browns since this reminds me of what the Browns went through for many years?  The Browns could not find a QB for what feels like forever.  The draft is very unpredictable.  I believe I just read this week that Baker is the 30th starting QB in Cleveland since 1999.  Baker looked good last week but it is too early to know how he is going to work out.  The Browns did find Garrett for their D but have been absolutely awful in the process of rebuilding.  They gave up players to keep gathering draft capitol which means the losses and misery piles up.   

They will have coaching stability, if nothing else. I actually think Gruden is a pretty good HC, but I'm not sure why he's piling everything that goes wrong on Carr.... motivational tactic? I'm also not convinced that he's as good a GM as he is a coach. On his way out of TB I thought he had an entire island of misfit toys he was trying to start at QB.

[LawFitz 1,079]

DC has looked awful this year. He's scared in the pocket and missing reads all over the field. My knock on him coming out of college was that he struggled when pressured. Two years ago, the Raiders had the best pass blocking OL in football + an OC who designed a system around DC's strengths and he thrived on the way to a near MVP season.

Since that time he's broken his leg and his back and the OL has regressed bigtime due to their own injuries. Add to that yet two new offensive systems that don't fit DC's style (spread) and we're seeing the slow motion meltdown of what was once an elite QB prospect.

There's still time to turn this around. And perhaps Gruden will do that. But I've said it in the Raider thread... Carr is playing like Jeff George - getting stats, but making horrible rookie mistakes because he's not seeing the field well at all. He's scared to stand tall in the pocket and go through is progressions. It's fugly.

[Faust 5,300]

Derek Carr managed to complete 24-of-33 passes for 268 yards, one touchdown, and one interception in the Raiders' Week 5 loss to the Chargers.

Carr had less than 200 yards and one pick with 10 minutes remaining in the fourth quarter. A 47-yard completion to Martavis Bryant (3-91) and eventual touchdown toss to a wide-open Jordy Nelson (due to a complete breakdown in the Chargers' secondary) allowed Carr to turn an outright miserable day into one that was simply miserable. Carr has undoubtedly been poor in engineering coach Jon Gruden's otherwise efficient offense this season, but his weekly fantasy finishes are still that of a low-end QB2 with QB1 streaming appeal. The Raiders host the Seahawks in Week 6.

Oct 7 - 7:10 PM

[lod001 5,406]

Solid David Carr game.

[LawFitz 1,079]

2 hours ago, lod001 said:

Solid David Carr game.

Jeff George

[Faust 5,300]

Jon Gruden thinks Derek Carr 'presses' at key moments

[Faust 5,300]

Quote

Derek Carr completed 23-of-31 passes for 142 yards and rushed four times for 31 yards in the Raiders' Week 6 loss to Seattle.

Carr took six sacks and lost two fumbles, and he suffered an apparent left-arm injury in the fourth quarter. The Raiders opted to let A.J. McCarron finish out the game down 27-3. Carr has had one productive fantasy performance out of six so far this year while repeatedly earning the ire of first-year coach Jon Gruden. As the Raiders head into their Week 7 bye, Carr has long been droppable in 14- and even 16-team fantasy leagues.

Oct 14 - 3:46 PM

 

[Faust 5,300]

Wait, wasn't Derek Carr supposed to thrive under Jon Gruden?

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

26 minutes ago, Faust said:

Wait, wasn't Derek Carr supposed to thrive under Jon Gruden?

This team is definitely a dumpster fire this year, and Carr needs to own improving his pocket presence and deep ball accuracy and overall confidence.

But this is Year 1 in a new (and complex) system, and our patchwork, threadbare, and barely talented and injury-riddled O-line isn't helping.

Like everything, this isn't all on Carr. But he -- and Gruden, and the rest of the team -- need to go a long way to show some level of consistency, let alone proficiency.

[zed2283 600]

Any info out there on how Rich Gannon fared in his first 1-2 years with Gruden?

[DocHolliday 4,076]

2 minutes ago, zed2283 said:

Any info out there on how Rich Gannon fared in his first 1-2 years with Gruden?

You cannot compare Carr to Gannon.  Gannon was a fiery competitor that made solid decisions on the field.  Carr is not. 

[zed2283 600]

1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

You cannot compare Carr to Gannon.  Gannon was a fiery competitor that made solid decisions on the field.  Carr is not. 

Well I was asking with respect to the remark about it being year 1 in a complex system.  That can affect Carr's decision making.  How was it for Gannon?

[DocHolliday 4,076]

4 minutes ago, zed2283 said:

Well I was asking with respect to the remark about it being year 1 in a complex system.  That can affect Carr's decision making.  How was it for Gannon?

I am too lazy to look it up and I don't remember how Gannon started out of the chute.  What I do know is that Carr looks bad.  His arm is ok but his decision making seems to be getting worse.  He used to play more on instinct or something.  Maybe he needs a year in the system.  The Oline is not good and may have him jittery as well.

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

I will say this: Gannon was a complete journeyman prior to coming to the Raiders -- he was a pure backup his entire career, often the third string QB, with the only run of dependable consecutive starts coming in his Redskins days when Rypien was benched because of mediocrity. Gannon didn't fare much better in the 4 successive games he started through the end of that season (93?).

Gannon came to the Raiders from the Chiefs where he could not break the starting rotation past Bono and that all-time great Elvis Grbac.

He got inserted right away as a starter for the Raiders in Gruden's system (heavily West-Coast based). And made the pro-bowl right away that year. Then did it 3 times again in the 3 successive seasons.

If Gannon can do it, I think Carr has a chance to flourish. It may just be he needs some time and better/more consistent pieces around him.

 @DocHolliday is right that Gannon had a fire in his belly ready to prove the world wrong, and did look more poised in the pocket. But I don't think he has anywhere near the talent Carr has.

 

[Faust 5,300]

Speaking Tuesday, Jon Gruden gave Derek Carr a vote of confidence as the Raiders' quarterback.

"He is the strength of this football team," Gruden said. "He is on my watch. I said it when I got here, if he doesn't play well, I've failed." This goes beyond a normal coachspeak vote of confidence. Gruden seems completely sincere. Plus, the Raiders don't have a legitimate option behind Carr. Gruden has actually managed to dramatically increase both Carr's completion percentage and yards per attempt, but Carr has been a turnover machine and seemed to lack confidence at times. He was unspeakably bad in the Raiders' London loss to the Seahawks. The duo has two weeks to draw something up for the Colts in Week 8.

Source: Vic Tafur on Twitter 

Oct 16 - 4:48 PM

[squistion 12,590]

20 minutes ago, Faust said:

Speaking Tuesday, Jon Gruden gave Derek Carr a vote of confidence as the Raiders' quarterback.

Oh, Noes! The dreaded vote of confidence. That means for sure that Carr's days as a Raider are numbered.

[DocHolliday 4,076]

2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

If Gannon can do it, I think Carr has a chance to flourish. It may just be he needs some time and better/more consistent pieces around him.

 @DocHolliday is right that Gannon had a fire in his belly ready to prove the world wrong, and did look more poised in the pocket. But I don't think he has anywhere near the talent Carr has.

 

I hope Tom is right about Carr needing time but I'm not so sure about the talent level.  Carr has a stronger arm than Gannon ever had but Gannon made better decisions more consistently.   

[LawFitz 1,079]

Carr has better arm talent but Gannon at his peak was better in every other way as a QB. Literally every other attribute other than arm talent. And even Carr's accuracy has become suspect of late, so all he might have left over Gannon is just arm strength. You know who else had lots of arm strength, YPA, INTs and L's? Jeff George. 

[KellysHeroes 226]

14 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Carr has better arm talent but Gannon at his peak was better in every other way as a QB. Literally every other attribute other than arm talent. And even Carr's accuracy has become suspect of late, so all he might have left over Gannon is just arm strength. You know who else had lots of arm strength, YPA, INTs and L's? Jeff George. 

They got Gannon killed now their getting Carr killed. Green just isn't a good coach 

[KellysHeroes 226]

4 hours ago, squistion said:

Oh, Noes! The dreaded vote of confidence. That means for sure that Carr's days as a Raider are numbered.

Thank gawd.  Get him out of there

[Faust 5,300]

Derek Carr says he loves playing for Raiders even though not 'popular' to be one right now

[DocHolliday 4,076]

Losing Cooper seems like it should really hurt Carr's production but Carr didn't throw his way much at all in some games.  In any case, Carr has gone from having little use as a FF QB to having no use.  The Raiders are going to really struggle on O.  No Lynch.  No Cooper.  Lots of Gruden and Carr. 

[squistion 12,590]

8 hours ago, Faust said:

Derek Carr says he loves playing for Raiders even though not 'popular' to be one right now

What else can he say unless he wants to be shown the door too.

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Losing Cooper seems like it should really hurt Carr's production but Carr didn't throw his way much at all in some games.  In any case, Carr has gone from having little use as a FF QB to having no use.  The Raiders are going to really struggle on O.  No Lynch.  No Cooper.  Lots of Gruden and Carr. 

One thing of benefit is that by gutting the team in-season, and losing out the rest of the season, they at least guarantee one of those 3 first round picks next year will be a high one. 

[Faust 5,300]

Raiders tell Derek Carr that he is their starting QB for foreseeable future

[kyoun1e 897]

Anyone considering (or being forced) to stream Carr this  week?

The matchup is there @SF...lousy in terms of points against.

Also, CJ Beathard may not be able to start. Some third stringer could be in the game. Could mean more posessions for Carr. Maybe a very comfortable game. 

High floor, maybe not too high of a ceiling, but I'm desperate. It's either Carr, Trubisky (@BUF...tough), or Fitz (who I'm not sure I trust @CAR).

[Manster 822]

5 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Anyone considering (or being forced) to stream Carr this  week?

The matchup is there @SF...lousy in terms of points against.

Also, CJ Beathard may not be able to start. Some third stringer could be in the game. Could mean more posessions for Carr. Maybe a very comfortable game. 

High floor, maybe not too high of a ceiling, but I'm desperate. It's either Carr, Trubisky (@BUF...tough), or Fitz (who I'm not sure I trust @CAR).

I'd go Fitz

[GoBirds 10,226]

6 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Anyone considering (or being forced) to stream Carr this  week?

The matchup is there @SF...lousy in terms of points against.

Also, CJ Beathard may not be able to start. Some third stringer could be in the game. Could mean more posessions for Carr. Maybe a very comfortable game. 

High floor, maybe not too high of a ceiling, but I'm desperate. It's either Carr, Trubisky (@BUF...tough), or Fitz (who I'm not sure I trust @CAR).

Yep I'm going for it.