Ahmad Rashad
Footballguy
Debating the same thing (2QB league -- other QB starting is Ryan). Dalton against the KC D has very high upside, but so does Winston against anybody with those weapons and that defense...
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QB Jameis Winston, NO (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
CLE D takes a little bit of a step down on the road.
As for Dalton, playing in KC may be a bit rougher. Also, I wonder if KC gets Houston back on the D line. While KC's D can't at all be considered good, I was surprised that Brady did have trouble with that secondary for most of the game. He hit on a couple big ones late (2 to Gronk, 1 to Hogan) that really helped the stats overall.
tackle for loss
Footballguy
I dont know when or why, but something tells me we will see Fitz back in the lineup soon.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
To be fair, the difference between #5 and #10 QB is probably 2 fantasy points. My dilemma is Goff or Winston, and FBG has them 0.15 points apart in MyFBG. You're probably splitting hairs
Truebluey
Footballguy
I have the same two. Sat Luck last week and although he was splendid, the decision won me the week, as I only won by 3 points (and Jameis outscored Andrew by 8).
Going with Winston again this week on the following premises.
Buffalo secondary is a bit better than Browns.
Indy is getting more from Mack so they may try to run more especially if they get the lead, which they should.
Tampa D is worse than Indy's so a shootout is a higher likelihood.
Tampa has a much better receiving corps than Indy's, which is literally duct-taped together right now. I am astonished Luck is still getting it done.
I think the weapons are a huge part of it. Luck will have Hilton back, but he'll have to face White, who's one of the top shutdown corners left.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I think Winston's game against Atl is misleading. Outside of week one, Atl has given up 3 passing TDs every week and over 330+yds except for the Pitt game where it was still 250.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This was one reason I almost didnt put a claim in for him. ATL is an outlier for almost everyone who has faced them, because their defense is terrible.
I still think Winston is a high end QB1 this year. The weapons and lack of a sid defense means throw throw throw.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Starting Winston and Luck in 2QB (sitting Baker, Carr bye), but I have no idea how Luck is getting it done either.
Truebluey
Footballguy
Yes, and Cleveland are 27th in the league in pressuring the QB, so Winston should have a good amount of time to throw, even if the CLE secondary is decent. Mind you, even with time he makes some incredibly bad reads at times.
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CalBear
Footballguy
How exactly is Luck "getting it done"? He's 1-5 and near the bottom of the league in passer rating. He's been passable in fantasy only because he's leading the league in pass attempts. Indianapolis has more than twice as many pass attempts as rushing attempts so far, despite the fact that the running game is working marginally better.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
...and in spite of all of that Luck is the 5th best QB in fantasy. Which is probably why he is "astonished Luck is getting it done"... for fantasy
Really? CLE doesn't sack the QB. Didn't know that.
Just was reading Winston as a "start of the week" on a rotoworld column while at the same time the author referenced all kinds of good DVOA stats for the pass defense. This doesn't feel like a great spot. Current analysis seems to boil down to "Yeah, it's a lousy matchup but Winston passes a lot and the D sucks."
One of these days the matchup is going to matter. Hope it's not this week.
simey
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
tackle for loss
Footballguy
Are you saying injuries and more suspensions for off the field trouble isnt possible?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Love Winston’s FF projection for the rest of the season, but I’m starting Mayfield over him this weekend. The TB pass D is that bad, and the CLE pass D is that good.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
FWIW, CLE is the #3 DVOA pass D in the league, and the 2nd best in QB rating against - and they haven’t had a cupcake QB against schedule. I’m not going to try to talk anyone out of starting Winston because TB is going to have to throw a ton in every game because they can’t run the ball and their D is a sieve.
Our league also scores completions/incompletions and penalizes INTs, sacks, and sack yardage. I just don’t think he’s going to have a huge day even though there will be plenty of opportunity. On the other hand, TB’s pass D is epicly bad.
Capella
Footballguy
Oh is that what you meant? Sure he could get injured. Literally any player could get injured. I doubt that’s what you meant though.
As for suspension, his off the field behavior is by far the most troubling aspect of his career going forward.
Ya I know. But Baltimore just had 11 sacks. Why do you think he’s ranked above Brees everywhere?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Big development that will impact game on Sunday for Winston.
Browns lose another starting CB.
Down to 3rd CB.
This is big news folks.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak 15m15 minutes ago
#Browns CB E.J. Gaines in concussion protocol, not practicing. Big loss. Already without Terrance Mitchell
Browns lose another starting CB.
Down to 3rd CB.
This is big news folks.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak 15m15 minutes ago
#Browns CB E.J. Gaines in concussion protocol, not practicing. Big loss. Already without Terrance Mitchell
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Gaines is the second starter to be listed as OUT for Sunday. Pro Bowl LB Joe Schoebert is the other starter so the LB corps is being shuffled. Schobert was the Browns best cover LBer so that was going to have an effect but the replacement for Gaines is TJ Carrie and he is truly awful. The last time he got significant playing time was against Oakland and the Browns gave up 45 points. Much of that came against Carrie.
Cornerback E.J. Gaines in concussion protocol, likely to leave Browns short-handed vs. Buccaneers
Tony GrossiVerified account @TonyGrossi FollowFollow @TonyGrossi
Browns defense falling apart. CB EJ Gaines enters concussion protocol. Previous starters out: CB Terrance Mitchell (wrist), LB Joe Schobert (hamstring).
4th&inches
Footballguy
SCT said:
Bronco Billy said:
SCT said:
FWIW, I'm starting Winston over Brees in 1 league and over Watson in another (Starting Watson over Winston last week cost me a win).Bronco Billy said:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I didn’t find that, but when you look at their drive stats - whoa nelly. They might be the best D in the league right now. The only things holding them down is that they have faced the most possessions in the league and are 3rd worst in starting field position. The rest is pretty eye popping.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsdef
And that’s against the statistically 6th toughest D schedule in the league.
.
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The entire fantasy community is basically ignoring ALL of this.
Everyone is now considering Winston an automatic start and guaranteed top 10 QB rest of season.
This is soooo a typical spot for Winston to face plant.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I’m a Winston owner who would love to start him based upon that pass O. But this is just smelling more and more like a trap game. The CLE D backfield is dinged up some though. I may have to rethink this a bit. Now I am completely certain that I’m overthinking this.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
this is why I jumped on this guy in redraft. he can play absolutely terrible but still score over 20 points; his floor is what most QBs ceilings are. top 3 qb ros
He did get them in position to win the game at the end of regulation. That was encouraging. skinsrule05
Footballguy
With those weapons and the amount he is throwing he is going to a top tier QB for the remainder of the season.
This was a tough matchup and he still put up great numbers.
This was a tough matchup and he still put up great numbers.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Tampa Bay still on pace for over 5800 yards passing.
I have Winston and Luck, and yesterday was like the perfect microcosm of how the rest of my season is going to go. Luck was surgical, passed for 4 TDs but didn't get a lot of yards, and the Colts rolled. Winston was, well, Winston, put up big passing (and running!) numbers, made a bunch of ugly plays on his way to an ugly victory ... and when it was all said and done, they both scored within a few points of each other.
Next week, Luck has a good match-up, Winston has a great one, so I'll probably stick with Jameis. But I just know this is all going to end with me starting the wrong guy in my championship game.
Next week, Luck has a good match-up, Winston has a great one, so I'll probably stick with Jameis. But I just know this is all going to end with me starting the wrong guy in my championship game.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He had 365 yards through the air and killed the Brown with his scrambling.
He was impressive.
He was impressive.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
With Ryan on BYE next week I’m super excited to start Winston in a plus matchup.
also rostering Trubisky, but I feel like Winston has the safer floors since the Bucs defense isn’t as likely to keep them in games as the Bears defense.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Trubisky is another one like Winston where he can have a terrible game and still put up big numbers because of the reliance on the passing game as well as his own two feet. Winston has the better floor by far, but I definitely wouldn't be upset streaming both of themWith Ryan on BYE next week I’m super excited to start Winston in a plus matchup.
also rostering Trubisky, but I feel like Winston has the safer floors since the Bucs defense isn’t as likely to keep them in games as the Bears defense.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If you can start him at RB.
Obviously kidding but he did out rush (81 yards 1 TD on 6 carries) Chubb yesterday.
.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's funny. Most Bucs' fans think the opposite. They loathe him and think he's awful.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's just this negative stigma. He played extremely well against Atlanta, but the fans bash him because of the two interceptions and blame him for the loss. They then refuse to acknowledge neither turnover cost the team points and Winston drove the offense for scores on subsequent drives. Then he compiles the most yards by any player in the NFL this week and they want to bury him again for two turnovers that weren't his fault after he leads the team on 3 TD drives and TWO game winning FG drives. That dime to DeSean was a rope after taking two sacks to give Catanzaro a chance to redeem himself in OT.
The dude brought a lot of it on himself, but there isn't a whole lot of objectivity about his actual play on the field. He's only 24. When Drew Brees was 24 he threw 11 TD's and 15 INT's.
This fan base is going to run him out of town and he's going to have a great career somewhere else. It's frustrating.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
The Browns are the AFC version of the Bucs? In what regard? That they both play in the NFL? Cleveland is quickly becoming a legitimate contender. They’ve got a very strong D and have their franchise QB and running game in place for the next few years. TB can’t stop the pass and they can’t run the football, and there is no solution to either on their current roster.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
And the sad thing is if this was Fitzpatrick they would be raving about his performance.
Good call on that comparison to Brees at the same age. People forget that he has a lot of growth ahead of him.
I do hope they run him out of town. It will be funny to see him lead some other team to a SB.
btemp
Footballguy
I'm going to call bull#### for a whole host of reasons which I don't have enough time to get into.
1) Winston is 2nd in the NFL over his tenure in turnovers - to Blake Bortles. Flat out: Teams with high turnovers (which the Bucs have always had with Winston) do not win consistently.
2) When you have a bad defense you can't turn the ball over. You have to play situational football.
3) Jameis is in his 4th year and still struggles to identify defenses, make the right reads, lead his WRs in the quick game, and hit a deep ball.
4) Jameis is one incident away from a year-long suspension.
5) Comparing Winston to Brees is a straw man because Brees played in a completely different NFL. This is the most QB friendly era (and QB friendly year) in NFL history.
6) Winston throws for lots of yards but doesn't score many points. Bucs have been 16th or worse in scoring every year he's started.
7) He struggles in the red zone.
I could go on and on and on. The reality is that Winston is a high ceiling low floor QB who is incredibly inconsistent. He combines highlight reel plays with unbelievably boneheaded ones. But at the end of the day his no. 1 problem is he turns the ball over too much. You cannot win in the NFL with any consistency with so many turnovers. And he hasn't changed.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
There’s a correlation with #1 and #2. Tampa has had statistically the worst defense in the NFL during Jameis’ tenure. The one season the defense was even remotely competitive they went 9-7. When the QB has to play catch up the entire game turnovers are bound to happen.
That being said I do agree he still turns it over too much. The Bortles turnover comparison is derived to make Jameis look worse than he is though. Anyone with eyes can see how much better of a passer Jameis is than Bortles.
Even if it was a different NFL when Brees was 24 that TD:INT ratio was not a good one. The point is Jameis still has a lot of room for growth and Tampa fans should try to think before running him out of town.
I’m not going to defend him on off the field stuff.
He does throw for lots of yards. Boatloads of them. I thought that was good? 7 TD drives in his two starts this season with multiple points left on the field by the kicker. Not enough? Go figure.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I dont know about everyone else's scoring system but in mine we dont get points for wins.
1. turnovers- he has 7 turnovers so far this year, but he has scored QB1 and QB6 in the two games he has started. That doesnt seem like a low floor. And doesnt that mean that they will be passing more, because it's hard for a team to have a big lead if they are turning the ball over a lot.
2. bad defense. in fantasy this is a good thing. Goff has a great defense so he ends up protecting a lead more with a running attack, which leads to a lower floor.
There are a lot of reasons why TB wont win the super bowl this year, but nothing that really makes me think Winston isnt going to get high volume and be a solid fantasy option. His high volume is going to protect him from the turn overs. because of this, Winston is a high floor qb, not a low floor. If someone thinks he has a low floor, I'd be curious what they see his floor as
1. turnovers- he has 7 turnovers so far this year, but he has scored QB1 and QB6 in the two games he has started. That doesnt seem like a low floor. And doesnt that mean that they will be passing more, because it's hard for a team to have a big lead if they are turning the ball over a lot.
2. bad defense. in fantasy this is a good thing. Goff has a great defense so he ends up protecting a lead more with a running attack, which leads to a lower floor.
There are a lot of reasons why TB wont win the super bowl this year, but nothing that really makes me think Winston isnt going to get high volume and be a solid fantasy option. His high volume is going to protect him from the turn overs. because of this, Winston is a high floor qb, not a low floor. If someone thinks he has a low floor, I'd be curious what they see his floor as
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leave a whisper
Footballguy
...... prob starting him over Brady this week 
Super King
Footballguy
Brady is going to rape the Bills....... prob starting him over Brady this week
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