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Doesn't really have much to do with what I was saying, but shows how little the legal system can do to prove rape or a fake report... Or what a guy like you can do to prove it to us.

I don't want to be right - I want you to convince me that Jameis is not a rapist so I can enjoy my Sundays without thinking there's a rapist on the field.

So far you've made no attempt to alleviate my concerns that he actually is a rapist.

I'm glad our legal system doesn't follow your thought process.

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Winston vs. Mariota as the top QB

Gruden: Who is Tampa going to take? Who should they take?

Kiper: Winston. That redshirt freshman season, what he did leading that team to a national title, never losing in his career until the Oregon game in the Rose Bowl last season, where it wasn't his fault. The refuse-to-lose mentality that he had even without two of his top three receivers and his running back, he still went out this year and led them to an undefeated season.

What about those interceptions? Well, how about the second halves of those games when he had to be flawless, and he was? All that stacks up to a quarterback who should be the No. 1 pick by a wide margin. The reason he is not is because of the off-field issues. Mariota has questions going from Oregon to the NFL. I will lean toward Winston as the No. 1 quarterback but in no way, shape or form am I convinced he can be an effective CEO of a football team.

Gruden: As much as I like Winston, I am taking Mariota. Athletically, he is incredible. The guy needs an S on his chest. Kryptonite can't slow down Mariota. You ever see Superman? Mariota allows you to call any play. You want to run a zone-read, you want to run quarterback-driven runs, you want to run a West Coast offense, you want to run anything, he can run it. He doesn't need great support around him at all these offensive line positions. Winston is a helluva quarterback. But you'd better get some protection for him. You'd better have a system in place with some audibles ready, because he is going to need them.

Kiper: Can Mariota be a great player in the league?

Gruden: I think he can get into the NFC South and be a championship quarterback if he is handled properly. He can create some of the problems Russell Wilson creates for defenses. Now I've got a few questions for you, Mel. Who is the better athlete? You got the times?

Kiper: Mariota.

Gruden: Who is the better decision-maker on the field when it comes to taking care of the football?

Kiper: Mariota.

Gruden: And who won when they played head-to-head?

Kiper: Mariota, but I don't care about that.

Gruden: I'm just saying, it seems to me that everything adds up to Mariota.

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It's cool that so many people with Internet access think they make a difference in what actually happens to Winston.

Wait. So, what's your purpose of posting?

Well, as outlandish as it sounds in this thread. To talk about football.

Is that what your post above was? Talking football?

Well, I also have to clean up CSTU falsely here and there as well.

I mean he is trying to claim me as FSU fan. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Exactly. I don't blame you, either.

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It's cool that so many people with Internet access think they make a difference in what actually happens to Winston.

Wait. So, what's your purpose of posting?

Well, as outlandish as it sounds in this thread. To talk about football.

Is that what your post above was? Talking football?

Well, I also have to clean up CSTU falsely here and there as well.

I mean he is trying to claim me as FSU fan. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Then I don't understand why you are in denial about Winston.

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It's cool that so many people with Internet access think they make a difference in what actually happens to Winston.

Wait. So, what's your purpose of posting?

Well, as outlandish as it sounds in this thread. To talk about football.

Is that what your post above was? Talking football?

Well, I also have to clean up CSTU falsely here and there as well.I mean he is trying to claim me as FSU fan. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Then I don't understand why you are in denial about Winston.
I'm able to be objective about a player from a team I don't like. That makes me in denial?

Look in the mirror.

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I'm able to be objective about a player from a team I don't like. That makes me in denial?

Look in the mirror.

You still haven't responded to the questions I asked.

Edited by cstu
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I'm able to be objective about a player from a team I don't like. That makes me in denial?

Look in the mirror.

You still haven't responded to the questions I asked.

You still need to work on that reading comprehension.
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Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.

So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.

Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.

Edited by Old Smiley
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I don't see it either with Mariota. I give him some benefit of the doubt for being a smart, hard-working kid with a lot of natural gifts. But, the practice and repetition around what he's going to be required to do in the NFL just isn't there. So, I would take a pass on him in the first 5 picks at least.

As for selecting Winston, you have to be convinced that his entire personality structure will be get an overhaul. Beyond the likelihood that he will have some legal involvement at least once in his pro career that costs him time away from the team, he looks destined to be a sloppy, careless boob who, like Josh Freeman, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell and countless other examples of "talented" guys who don't get it, will flame out of the league in 3-5 years. Whoever takes him, wherever they take him, they're flushing that pick down the toilet.

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Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.

Many disagree. Myself, I'll just have to wait 1 day, 20 hours, 53 minutes and change. I'm looking forward to seeing these careers play out.

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Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.

Many disagree. Myself, I'll just have to wait 1 day, 20 hours, 53 minutes and change. I'm looking forward to seeing these careers play out.

Same. Regardless of what I think about Winston it will be entertaining.

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Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.

Gruden's opinion last year was that Manziel should go #1 and every team should have taken him until he went off the board.

That guy forgot more football yesterday than I'll ever know, but I wouldn't hold his draft opinions too high. Really, I wouldn't hold anybody's that high.

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Yeah, being drafted #1 overall and getting paid an enormous amount of $$ will really get him grounded, humbled, and hungry to work and improve!!

It will be validation that everything he's done is working, why would he change?

Everything he's done is working. He's lost one game in his whole college career.

Assuming by "he" you mean Jimbo Fisher, yes he is doing very well.

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Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.

Gruden's opinion last year was that Manziel should go #1 and every team should have taken him until he went off the board.

That guy forgot more football yesterday than I'll ever know, but I wouldn't hold his draft opinions too high. Really, I wouldn't hold anybody's that high.

I agree with this.
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Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.

So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.

Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.

Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.

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Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.

So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.

Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.

Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.

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Dan Pompei ‏@danpompei 39m39 minutes ago

Lovie Smith to me: "If we pick Jameis, would I be comfortable with him being the face of the franchise? Yes, I would."

kind of a dumb question or quote

if they were not comfortable they likly would not pick him

"If i pick Jameis #1 do I think he'll be the best qb in the class? Yes"

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Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.

So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.

Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.

Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.

There isn't even a Bortles or Cam in this class...

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I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.

It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.

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I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.

It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.

There are not one, but two rape lawsuits out there involving him - one against FSU and one against him personally.

Yet off the field stuff is overblown...right.

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Chris Brown of Smart Football grades the top four QBs (Petty, Hundley, Mariota, Winston) over at Grantland. Scores Winston highest, picks Mariota.

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-formula-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota-brett-hundley-bryce-petty/

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

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Chris Brown of Smart Football grades the top four QBs (Petty, Hundley, Mariota, Winston) over at Grantland. Scores Winston highest, picks Mariota.

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-formula-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota-brett-hundley-bryce-petty/

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.

Not even a charge.

:ptts:

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Chris Brown of Smart Football grades the top four QBs (Petty, Hundley, Mariota, Winston) over at Grantland. Scores Winston highest, picks Mariota.

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-formula-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota-brett-hundley-bryce-petty/

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.

Not even a charge.

:ptts:

:bs: and you know it.

That's why she's suing FSU.

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I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.

It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.

There are not one, but two rape lawsuits out there involving him - one against FSU and one against him personally.

Yet off the field stuff is overblown...right.

Rich people get sued. The Bucs are being sued by Lawrence Tynes right now.

Those lawsuits will be settled out of court. Other than putting a minor dent in Winston's wallet I don't see how it's going to effect him in the slightest going forward.

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Those lawsuits will be settled out of court. Other than putting a minor dent in Winston's wallet I don't see how it's going to effect him in the slightest going forward.

She's taking the FSU case to court and this doesn't sound like she's planning to settle with Winston:

Erica Kinsman's attorney, John Clune, released the following statement:

"Today, a very brave young woman filed her lawsuit against Jameis Winston for the sexual battery that she reported to police in December 2012. Over the past two years, this survivor of sexual violence has had to endure a delinquent police investigation, a hostile FSU athletic department, and Mr. Winston's bullying lawyer. But the more these forces sought to silence her, the more determined she has become to step forward and hold Jameis Winston accountable for his actions. With the support of her family, she is prepared for this fight and for the counterclaims and the smear campaigns that will surely follow...

..We know that quite often the public is quick to support the cause against sexual violence but at times can be slow to support the individual women who come forward. We hope that this case becomes a model for understanding what real sexual assault cases look like as well as the barriers that survivors face in coming forward. Perhaps more than anything, Erica hopes to show other survivors the strength and empowerment that can come from refusing to stay silent no matter what forces are against you...

...Jameis Winston in contrast has proven time and time again to be an entitled athlete who believes he can take what he wants. He took something here that he was not entitled to and he hurt someone. There are consequences for that behavior and since others have refused to hold him accountable, our client will."

She's also requested a jury trial in the case against Winston.

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I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

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I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that.

Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

If this goes to trial and he's loses it's far worse for his reputation than whatever millions he has to pay.

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