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QB Jameis Winston, NO (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Grahamburn
Footballguy
If Jameis Winston were on the open market at the end of this season what kind of contract do we think he'd get?
rockaction
Footballguy
We don't know. We know that one of the best receivers in football just got a fifth-round pick with a seventh return conditional in return for performance.
And he was about to hit the open market.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I take your point and get where you're coming from, but this is no longer a "football" question.
What's a fifth-round pick worth?
What's a fifth-round pick worth?
rockaction
Footballguy
People need to stop thinking that for the sake of being impolitic, this #### doesn't exist. Sorry if it ####s up a message board, but this guy has been accused of sexual assault twice. There's no getting around it.
JAMEIS WINSTON HAS BEEN TWICE ACCUSED OF RAGING SEXUAL ASSAULT.
JAMEIS WINSTON HAS BEEN TWICE ACCUSED OF RAGING SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I'LL REPEAT: JAMEIS WINSTON HAS TWICE BEEN ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. IT'S WORSE THAN A NON-VIOLENT ROCK SMOKER.
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rockaction
Footballguy
THIEVERY, SEXUAL ASSAULT, PRIVILEGE, AND COVER-UPS.
I NEED CAPS FOR FLORIDA PEOPLE.
I NEED CAPS FOR FLORIDA PEOPLE.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
No need really to resort to that.
Capella
Footballguy
Lol he is getting 21M next year guaranteed only against injury. What are you talking about.
Capella
Footballguy
Gee no kidding. Do you think the Bucs GM and team owners post here? None of us are making those decisions.
rockaction
Footballguy
Right. And the guy that's breaking records is on the bench. And you want him starting and we're telling you that pure performance won't determine entertainment and billion dollar industries, for better or worse. We're actually checking your heads -- we don't need the reality check about Jameis.
I'm no ninny about sex or sexual harassment and anybody that's seen me in the FFA knows that I'm not playing puritanical -- but that you don't get the problem with Jameis' actions -- or seem to get it; let's be kind -- makes me worry for your grasp on societal standards and where we are. And I think we've come too far. But rape and grope are always serious.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I hear you rock, and I agree that it’s more complicated than “who’s the better qb.” Let’s face it though, it obviously doesn’t matter to some people if he can play. I mean we have to listen to mike Vick on fox every Sunday. The only place more forgiving than the nfl is the Catholic Church, unless you smoke weed.
rockaction
Footballguy
If I had the answers...I think that, football-wise, TB should be worried about Jameis and the conduct policy.
Capella
Footballguy
What.....the #### are you talking about? I’ve said multiple times I’m done defending Jameis as a person after the last incident. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t play for my favorite team any longer and can’t be discussed.
Seriously, piss off.
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rockaction
Footballguy
And I think he should start the week after the bye, no questions. It's done. The league is the league. You think Belichick would cut him? Didn't Edelman get accused of grope? Move on.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You flipped the script on me pretty quickly there. I'm not condoning his actions, but it appears the organization has drafting him #1 overall and then keeping him on the roster for this season. Maybe they won't give him his job back at all this season, but if that was the plan they should have released him when his suspension was decided.
I thought we were talking about the football implications?
rockaction
Footballguy
Sure he can be discussed. And I'm trying to bring a semblance of societal reality to this. Nobody ####### LIKES HIM BECAUSE HE ABUSES WOMEN CRIMINALLY.
Capella
Footballguy
Piss off. I don’t appreciate your comments about me. You don’t know a ### #### thing about me.
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rockaction
Footballguy
We are, but the football implications are inextricable from the personal ones.You flipped the script on me pretty quickly there. I'm not condoning his actions, but it appears the organization has drafting him #1 overall and then keeping him on the roster for this season. Maybe they won't give him his job back at all this season, but if that was the plan they should have released him when his suspension was decided.
I thought we were talking about the football implications?
rockaction
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
You quoted me and said “but that you don't get the problem with Jameis' actions -- or seem to get it; let's be kind -- makes me worry for your grasp on societal standards and where we are.”
Done responding to you. Take it easy.
rockaction
Footballguy
Look, I'll leave the thread. You guys know I want him to succeed and turn his life around. There's no doubt.
You also still want him to start purely on football terms. I agree.
That's not the entertainment biz. The entertainment biz is subject to social whims. Always has been, always will. That's partially what I'm trying to explain, and partially why I'm having to explain so hard that his abuse of women turns him off to so many.
You also still want him to start purely on football terms. I agree.
That's not the entertainment biz. The entertainment biz is subject to social whims. Always has been, always will. That's partially what I'm trying to explain, and partially why I'm having to explain so hard that his abuse of women turns him off to so many.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I think part of the issue is your glaring need to feel like this situation warrants your explanation.
rockaction
Footballguy
Never did. Said some #### I knew would bring you and Capella out of the woods to defend it like you always have. Personally, I think part of it is called cognitive dissonance and self-confirming bias, how's that?
And that'll be my last.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, wait, I'll hope for Jameis like I hope for Josh, but with a different mindset, that's for sure.
I agree on all levels ... yeash.
The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2. I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr.... I think you hold but it is hard.
rockaction
Footballguy
I agree, too. I could have debated that more eloquently and coldly than all caps. That started to get unnecessary. My apologies for that. Not for content, but bad form and maybe bad personal form with Cappy which I've since thought about. Let's get back to it. I have interest in it, too.
@Capella
Apologies if I imputed something to you you in no way believe or feel. That's on me.
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In that spirit - what are you thoughts on this? I think there are a bunch of owners in this spot.
"The tough part is whether or not to roster him right now as a QB2. I see him getting dropped for Dalton and Carr.... I think you hold but it is hard."
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That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.
rockaction
Footballguy
What kind of league are you talking about? Not an abrupt tone, but just curious. Is it a 2QB league or are you talking QB1 and QB2 status because you might have fallen out of the top twelve in a standard-standard league?
Right now, I'm in a super flex league with another flex with 16 teams, so every QB is pretty much taken. You're holding. If you're in a twelve team 2 QB league, you might think of dropping him for Dalton or Carr. It depends on the makeup of your league so much, though. What's your roster like? And keep in mind I'm no expert, which is why I don't work here and just comment, but I'd need to know league dynamics, etc.
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NeverEnough
Footballguy
I drafted Winston in my keep 12 league to backup Goff. I still have hm rostered, but now I also have Fitz buring a spot on my roster. I guess I'll give it until suspension is over & see what happens...unless a ww gem pops up. I could also drop them both for Flacco, but Fitz is the #1 QB right now. Maybe I should start him over Goff!
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rockaction
Footballguy
Can we figure that out? Because I have Fitz on the wire and Goff as QB1 on my team. And I know Fitz. It's stud-stud-dud. So I'm hesitant.
I think there are many owners in the same spot here - burning 3 spots on QB is hard to do... I feel your pain.
Osaurus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Sure. You shouldn't follow my advice on QB management, though. I devalue QBs even more than most and take them later in 4 pt. TD pass leagues. I'm sort of the modern...wait for Stafford...wait for Cousins. You'll get them. I think Winston and Dalton are two points interchangeable. I wonder if you did historical trends what they'd actually be. I've rostered Jameis. He didn't compare to Keenum last year, even. I just rolled Keenum out there until my finals. It's a crapshoot and most workable fantasy strategies have you drafting quarterbacks late, which works for me.
eta* It's not a crapshoot, it's that they tend to cluster around the same score, so having a viable backup might be better than one who doesn't start. I wouldn't backup a backup QB in a twelve-team league, that's for sure.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I think the only time I ever saw QBs valued was in this setup we did this year:
1 QB
2 RB
3 WR
1 TE
1 W/R/T
1 QB/R/W/T
That brought the most important position to the fore. That's why the super flex is what all the hip kids are doing.
But otherwise, they're very low on the totem pole because they tend to score the same, especially around the average.
1 QB
2 RB
3 WR
1 TE
1 W/R/T
1 QB/R/W/T
That brought the most important position to the fore. That's why the super flex is what all the hip kids are doing.
But otherwise, they're very low on the totem pole because they tend to score the same, especially around the average.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That may be true but he had Marshall, Decker and Enunwa at WR and Powell and Chris Ivory at RB with the Jets so he wasn't done in by lack of talent at the skill positions. His supporting cast in Buffalo wasn't bad either.
The bottom line is he's a weak armed QB that makes some horrendous decisions with the ball - he has however shown flashes on brilliances, which he's doing once again right now. He's a fun guy to root for and was a model citizen everywhere he's been so hope he continues along this path (and I'm a Winston dynasty owner).
Capella
Footballguy
From pro football focus:
“Whew. Someone break up the Buccaneers. Their passing game showed a lot of juice last year, with Jameis Winston generating the highest percentage of positively-graded throws among all quarterbacks, but this is a bit ridiculous”
you simply don't know what you’re talking about.
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Keep telling yourself that. Facts are facts and the fact is, Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys. So you can talk all you want about your guy but he's not even better than a 36 year old journeyman with a team loaded at skill position players.Capella said:
Capella
Footballguy
Pff watches and grades every play. They have the facts. Yours is an opinion, which doesn’t match up to the actual facts.
Also, the oline wasn’t this good last year and the Bucs still moved the ball in an elite fashion.
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doeseatplace
Footballguy
Not coming down on either side of the QB argument, but while Chris Godwin and OJ Howard are the same guys, now they are 2nd year veterans with experience in Koetter's offense. That has to make some degree of difference
NeverEnough
Footballguy
I want them to pick 1 so I can free up a spot, but from an NFL standpoint, if Fitz keeps up this streak, you cannot yank him. You have to roll with him until he fizzles out.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Agree plus DJAX is healthier and in second year of the system.
Tampa is at least in the conversation for best set of skill position receiving options in the NFL. That was not the case last year IMO.
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