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Marcus Mariota - QB - Player

In a poll of 19 NFL personnel executives asked to identify the top quarterback in this year's draft, Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston finished in a near-dead heat.

10-of-19 execs voted Winston as this year's top QB, while Mariota received nine first-place votes.

Eight predicted Winston would bust or "disappoint," however, while Mariota was only predicted to bust or disappoint by two personnel men.

In the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's points system based on the voting by scouts, Baylor's Bryce Petty finished as this year's No. 3 quarterback, with UCLA's Brett Hundley as the No. 4 and Colorado State's Garrett Grayson as the No. 5.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Apr 24 - 1:01 AM

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Meh. I think Mariota is a very safe, albeit unexciting QB prospect (has the makings of a dream game manager), but there are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

I think Mariota has very little chance of being a great NFL QB, but a very good chance of being serviceable, and very little chance of failing outright.

Winston obviously has the tools that give him at least a chance of being a great QB, but I don't think he has the tools to fall back into a supporting role in the way Mariota does, and his various on-and-off-field issues (poor decision maker in both arenas, dumb as a brick, lacks the maturity and professionalism to dedicate himself to the craft, highly likely to face ongoing legal troubles as a several-times-already-offender) make him a gigantic bust risk. The ceiling is crazy, but the bust outcome seems far, far, far more likely. :shrug:

Edited by Freelove
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In a poll of 19 NFL executives done by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, 10 named USC DT Leonard Williams as the No. 1 player in the 2015 draft.

Alabama WR Amari Cooper finished a distant second with four votes. Oregon QB Marcus Mariota (2 1/2) was third, Florida DE/OLB Dante Fowler and Wisconsin RB Melvin Gordon each received one vote, and Georgia RB Todd Gurley got the final half-vote.
(Notice Jameis Winston received no first-place votes.)
Although there has been some recent scuttlebutt of Williams falling in the draft, it's hard to imagine him getting past the Raiders at No. 4 or Redskins at No. 5. And Williams could still easily go second overall to the Titans.
Apr 22 - 11:58 PM
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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

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I wouldn't say I'm trolling since I believe 100% of what I've posted but I have :pokey: . Poor show of character on my part (don't draft me #1 overall).

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Mariota, to me, gives me a vibe of Matt Ryan. Just a guy that a lot of people knew about for a while and did good things and never really gets you super hyped up, but at the end of the day, you feel "safe" with him.

Winston, whether it is deserved or not, puts off a vibe like there just simply is too much "non-positive" speculation around him to be able to feel great about him and if you are the worst NFL team in the league with the number one pick, that is not somewhere you want to be very often.

If it were my call, there is just no way I would pick Winston. I don't care if he IS the next Luck. People can get past "you skipped elite for solid/great" much better than they can "you blew it again, moron!"

It's almost like building a house. Sometimes you might not have the prettiest aesthetics, but if you start with solid materials, you can build something very solid.

And if the Bucs just can't get the feeling they want out of either of these guys, trade down and stock pile picks or take a great d-lineman and then come back and get a QB later. Not all the best QBs in the league were top 5 picks. Or even continue to develop the young QB you have. There is nothing that says you MUST take a QB.

Edited by Shutout
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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Edited by werdnoynek
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I'm of two minds. I want to see him play so I can find out if those wobbly knees and that two area code wind up can be fixed, or can work, but, even though I think young men are dumb, damn the consequences people, I think if he did wrong to that woman, that he should not evade any due consequences.

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

I have presented facts that neither you nor any else has disputed (except with the most ridiculous claims like she didn't name Winston that night because she was thinking about accusing her high school boyfriend of rape).

Winston fans have all been intellectually dishonest in this thread.

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Predicting a QB to fail in the NFL is just too easy. Most of them fail.

All the more reason to draft one with well known leadership qualities, a winning track record, experience in a pro style offense, and the ability to read a defense. :thumbup:

Like Jamarcus Russell?

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Several folks have been one sided about the whole rape situation. You're as guilty as anyone.

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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

I'm not saying he did it, but reading more on it makes me sympathize with the "victim" more than I originally did.

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Several folks have been one sided about the whole rape situation. You're as guilty as anyone.

I'm for justice. I can't let cstu just smear Jameis... it's just not fair.

ETA: Black lives matter.

Edited by werdnoynek
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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

I have presented facts that neither you nor any else has disputed (except with the most ridiculous claims like she didn't name Winston that night because she was thinking about accusing her high school boyfriend of rape).

Winston fans have all been intellectually dishonest in this thread.

This comment is the epitome of being "intellectually dishonest."
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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

I have presented facts that neither you nor any else has disputed (except with the most ridiculous claims like she didn't name Winston that night because she was thinking about accusing her high school boyfriend of rape).

Winston fans have all been intellectually dishonest in this thread.

This comment is the epitome of being "intellectually dishonest."

You won't even answer the questions I posed:

- I ask why she didn't name Winston that night...answer: she was waiting to name a guy she went to high school with who moved to Ohio.

- I ask why a girl would come home in tears, beg for help from friends at 2 am, spend the night talking to police and submit to a humiliating rape test at the hospital...answers: she was embarrassed about having sex with a black guy or regretted her decision to have sex

- I ask why if she only reported the rape because of a regretful decision or didn't understand the gravity of the accusation did she report Winston went she saw him in class a month later...no answer

- I ask why Winston waited until the DNA test came back to admit he had sex with her...no answer

- I ask why Casher destroyed his phone...answer: he's afraid of police

- I ask why Casher and Darby's stories from that night don't match up...no answer

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I wouldn't say I'm trolling since I believe 100% of what I've posted but I have :pokey: . Poor show of character on my part (don't draft me #1 overall).

I'm sure you have said it, but who would you take instead of Winston if you were the Bucs?

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Several folks have been one sided about the whole rape situation. You're as guilty as anyone.

I'm for justice. I can't let cstu just smear Jameis... it's just not fair.

ETA: Black lives matter.

But you're just fine with smearing his accuser. Strange.

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

I have presented facts that neither you nor any else has disputed (except with the most ridiculous claims like she didn't name Winston that night because she was thinking about accusing her high school boyfriend of rape).

Winston fans have all been intellectually dishonest in this thread.

This comment is the epitome of being "intellectually dishonest."

You won't even answer the questions I posed:

- I ask why she didn't name Winston that night...answer: she was waiting to name a guy she went to high school with who moved to Ohio.

- I ask why a girl would come home in tears, beg for help from friends at 2 am, spend the night talking to police and submit to a humiliating rape test at the hospital...answers: she was embarrassed about having sex with a black guy or regretted her decision to have sex

- I ask why if she only reported the rape because of a regretful decision or didn't understand the gravity of the accusation did she report Winston went she saw him in class a month later...no answer

- I ask why Winston waited until the DNA test came back to admit he had sex with her...no answer

- I ask why Casher destroyed his phone...answer: he's afraid of police

- I ask why Casher and Darby's stories from that night don't match up...no answer

Right, I won't and it's for the same reason your comment is intellectually dishonest. I'm sure you lump me into Winston fan area. By and large I haven't commented on any of his rape stuff. Personally, I think it's a fools errand. There is no way you or anyone else using the internet is going to more appropriately delve into this rape thing, or character, like real NFL teams with infinitely greater resources. So, if you lump me, and several others, into this group that you have you are in fact being intellectually dishonest. I have said on many occasions and for a long time my take on Winston is mostly based in on-field observation.

Hey knock yourself out with the personal crusade of solving the case. You seem more motivated to prove your point than solve anything and have come off as bias, hypocritical and insulting more than anything, though. I guess there is a place for internet based Sherlock Holmes. I just don't particularly care for it playing out in a thread that is supposed to be most related to football discussion. I mean there is a forum for you to have your crusade in where it doesn't pollute the information stream of football based discussion. Yes, I do acknowledge that some of this stuff is relevant to football and the outcome. The length you have gone too has crossed that line a long time ago.

I mean you have said things like "letting it go." Then proceed to post at such a rabid pace you put even news-bot Faust to shame and leave him in the dust. I also love the continual comments of how resorting to personal attacks is uncalled for. Unless of course it's you making such personal attacks. Then it's OK. Hell, even some of the anti-Winston crowd have commented on the absurdity of your posts.

Personally, I feel the off-field stuff is best to leave to the actual teams drafting. They will do their homework and they will come to a conclusion. There is going to be a risk/reward analysis done I'm sure that will impact their pick.

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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

:goodposting:

I hope he goes to the Bucs because it would be poetic and amusing. I just don't think it will happen. Despite the fact that it's a foregone conclusion, I just can't wrap my head around then being that stupid. But, if it does go down this way, fine by me. They would totally deserve each other

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Predicting a QB to fail in the NFL is just too easy. Most of them fail.

All the more reason to draft one with well known leadership qualities, a winning track record, experience in a pro style offense, and the ability to read a defense. :thumbup:

I believe that is how Christian Ponder was sold to the Vikings fan base.
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Marcus Mariota - QB - Player

In a poll of 19 NFL personnel executives asked to identify the top quarterback in this year's draft, Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston finished in a near-dead heat.

10-of-19 execs voted Winston as this year's top QB, while Mariota received nine first-place votes.

Eight predicted Winston would bust or "disappoint," however, while Mariota was only predicted to bust or disappoint by two personnel men.

In the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's points system based on the voting by scouts, Baylor's Bryce Petty finished as this year's No. 3 quarterback, with UCLA's Brett Hundley as the No. 4 and Colorado State's Garrett Grayson as the No. 5.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Apr 24 - 1:01 AM

Would love to find out who the 'Winston will be a bust' execs are. I'd bet they are from GB, NE, DEN, etc. Teams at the top. The bottom feeders probably think he is a franchise QB. Your Bills, Jets, TENN, CLE, etc. CLE would be all over him except for the Manzier disaster.

With solid coaching, I predict that Petty will emerge in the top 2 if not the top QB in this draft.

Edited by lod01
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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

He hasn't been one sided. He believes the situation happened a certain way and has posted things that support his belief. He has tried to refute items that people posted that support the other side.

I view several people supporting Jameis on this thread as doing so because they think he will be great and they think he will be playing for their team. Ergo, he couldn't have raped her because that will ruin everything for their team.

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Right, I won't and it's for the same reason your comment is intellectually dishonest. I'm sure you lump me into Winston fan area. By and large I haven't commented on any of his rape stuff. Personally, I think it's a fools errand. There is no way you or anyone else using the internet is going to more appropriately delve into this rape thing, or character, like real NFL teams with infinitely greater resources. So, if you lump me, and several others, into this group that you have you are in fact being intellectually dishonest. I have said on many occasions and for a long time my take on Winston is mostly based in on-field observation.

Hey knock yourself out with the personal crusade of solving the case. You seem more motivated to prove your point than solve anything and have come off as bias, hypocritical and insulting more than anything, though. I guess there is a place for internet based Sherlock Holmes. I just don't particularly care for it playing out in a thread that is supposed to be most related to football discussion. I mean there is a forum for you to have your crusade in where it doesn't pollute the information stream of football based discussion. Yes, I do acknowledge that some of this stuff is relevant to football and the outcome. The length you have gone too has crossed that line a long time ago.

I mean you have said things like "letting it go." Then proceed to post at such a rabid pace you put even news-bot Faust to shame and leave him in the dust. I also love the continual comments of how resorting to personal attacks is uncalled for. Unless of course it's you making such personal attacks. Then it's OK. Hell, even some of the anti-Winston crowd have commented on the absurdity of your posts.

Personally, I feel the off-field stuff is best to leave to the actual teams drafting. They will do their homework and they will come to a conclusion. There is going to be a risk/reward analysis done I'm sure that will impact their pick.

The whole 'fool's errand' and 'you're not Sherlock Holmes' is an excuse to ignore the issue so you can enjoy watching him play football.

I just don't particularly care for it playing out in a thread that is supposed to be most related to football discussion.

Whether or not he is a rapist IS a football discussion.

I was going to let it go after all of the personal insults, but then decided with was too big of an issue and being ignored everywhere else.

I took a lot of flack last year for posting article after article about Manziel's character concerns and ended up 100% right.

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There are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

True. But, the NFL executives were also asked whether they thought Winston and Mariota would be average starters, make at least one Pro Bowl, etc. The results of the poll:

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

Edited by bolzano
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I wouldn't say I'm trolling since I believe 100% of what I've posted but I have :pokey: . Poor show of character on my part (don't draft me #1 overall).

I'm sure you have said it, but who would you take instead of Winston if you were the Bucs?

I like Mariota - I think he has both the tools and temperament to be a successful NFL QB. However, he either needs to go to a team with a similar offense that he's used to (i.e. Eagles) or spend a year learning the team's system.

If Tampa isn't willing to do that then the wise thing to do would be to trade to the pick a team that willing to give multiple picks/players for the #1.

If those deals aren't as good as the media as portrayed them then they can draft Leonard Williams, who would be an immediate boost to the defense.

That doesn't solve their QB problem immediately but it's better than blowing the pick on a guy who could be a black eye for the organization.

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There are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

True. But, the NFL executives were also asked whether they thought Winston and Mariota would be average starters, make at least one Pro Bowl, etc. The results of the poll:

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

I can't remember a QB who people were so divided on - 6 think he's a Pro Bowl QB and 8 think he's not even an average starter.

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There are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

True. But, the NFL executives were also asked whether they thought Winston and Mariota would be average starters, make at least one Pro Bowl, etc. The results of the poll:

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

NFL scouts were asked, not executives.

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Several folks have been one sided about the whole rape situation. You're as guilty as anyone.

I'm for justice. I can't let cstu just smear Jameis... it's just not fair.

ETA: Black lives matter.

But you're just fine with smearing his accuser. Strange.

Neither of them are angels.

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cstu has been one sided about the whole rape situation. I'd be shocked if his posts didn't get you worked up... that's clearly his intention. It's like being a liberal and watching Fox News.

Several folks have been one sided about the whole rape situation. You're as guilty as anyone.

I'm for justice. I can't let cstu just smear Jameis... it's just not fair.

ETA: Black lives matter.

But you're just fine with smearing his accuser. Strange.

Neither of them are angels.

That doesn't explain away your hypocrisy.

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Right, I won't and it's for the same reason your comment is intellectually dishonest. I'm sure you lump me into Winston fan area. By and large I haven't commented on any of his rape stuff. Personally, I think it's a fools errand. There is no way you or anyone else using the internet is going to more appropriately delve into this rape thing, or character, like real NFL teams with infinitely greater resources. So, if you lump me, and several others, into this group that you have you are in fact being intellectually dishonest. I have said on many occasions and for a long time my take on Winston is mostly based in on-field observation.

Hey knock yourself out with the personal crusade of solving the case. You seem more motivated to prove your point than solve anything and have come off as bias, hypocritical and insulting more than anything, though. I guess there is a place for internet based Sherlock Holmes. I just don't particularly care for it playing out in a thread that is supposed to be most related to football discussion. I mean there is a forum for you to have your crusade in where it doesn't pollute the information stream of football based discussion. Yes, I do acknowledge that some of this stuff is relevant to football and the outcome. The length you have gone too has crossed that line a long time ago.

I mean you have said things like "letting it go." Then proceed to post at such a rabid pace you put even news-bot Faust to shame and leave him in the dust. I also love the continual comments of how resorting to personal attacks is uncalled for. Unless of course it's you making such personal attacks. Then it's OK. Hell, even some of the anti-Winston crowd have commented on the absurdity of your posts.

Personally, I feel the off-field stuff is best to leave to the actual teams drafting. They will do their homework and they will come to a conclusion. There is going to be a risk/reward analysis done I'm sure that will impact their pick.

The whole 'fool's errand' and 'you're not Sherlock Holmes' is an excuse to ignore the issue so you can enjoy watching him play football.

I just don't particularly care for it playing out in a thread that is supposed to be most related to football discussion.

Whether or not he is a rapist IS a football discussion.

I was going to let it go after all of the personal insults, but then decided with was too big of an issue and being ignored everywhere else.

I took a lot of flack last year for posting article after article about Manziel's character concerns and ended up 100% right.

It's not an excuse so I or anyone can watch him play football. He WILL be playing football. Watch it or not. You're being delusional if you think otherwise. Just because you don't like that he will be playing doesn't make it so that he won't.

Manziel and Winston are almost nothing alike. That has no relevance here. Hey, I was right about Manziel too!

Big deal. Nobody cares.

Edited by jurb26
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There are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

True. But, the NFL executives were also asked whether they thought Winston and Mariota would be average starters, make at least one Pro Bowl, etc. The results of the poll:

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

NFL scouts were asked, not executives.

Not that it makes much of a difference, but it's inferred that the polled individuals were NFL personnel executives = scouts.

The results of a Journal Sentinel survey of 19 NFL executives in personnel this month revealed Winston as much more bust-prone than Mariota.

Scouts were asked to predict what's ahead for the two players. Here were the five categories used to forecast what their careers might hold, and the subsequent responses for each.

Edited by bolzano
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There are obvious language issues with asking which guy you expect to "bust or dissapoint." It's hard to disappoint if you don't expect much out of a guy to begin with, and there's always a higher risk of that if you expect a ton.

True. But, the NFL executives were also asked whether they thought Winston and Mariota would be average starters, make at least one Pro Bowl, etc. The results of the poll:

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

NFL scouts were asked, not executives.

That's even worse for Winston. Scouts are better at evaluating than executives. That's why they are scouts.

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Looks like he can move pretty well in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds69Ds4cWB8

Here's another video that shows accurate short and deep passing, good decision making, and mobility up the field:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iK3Ixitvus

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Looks like he can move pretty well in this video

Here's another video that shows accurate short and deep passing, good decision making, and mobility up the field:

Wrong link? That video doesn't show what your discription says. Edited by jurb26
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While cstu may be trolling a bit and probably doesn't need to be poking at the Tampa Bay fans as much as he is - I will say that I never really followed the rape story very closely, and I while still admit we'll likely never really know for sure what happed, his posts have opened my eyes on the matter and I'm a little sickened by what I've been reading. I really hope he is innocent, but I have some doubts about it now. And lets not act like it would be beyond a college town police force to not exactly push the issue as hard as they normally would if Winston was some guy who worked at Publix instead of the star QB at FSU.

I'm not going to judge Winston and I'm not going to hope he fails or anything, but I'm really hoping he's gone before the Jets pick because I just don't want to be "forced" to root for him actively. I don't have many doubts about his abilities and lord knows the Jets need a QB but would rather watch the Amish Rifle and/or hope Geno finally "gets it" than to let a new regime that I am really getting behind right now get taken down if Winston finds himself in serous trouble again.

If he does end up in Tampa Bay, I truly do hope that he turns things around and it all works out. They have some nice weapons in place and would be a fun team to watch.

:goodposting:

I hope he goes to the Bucs because it would be poetic and amusing. I just don't think it will happen. Despite the fact that it's a foregone conclusion, I just can't wrap my head around then being that stupid. But, if it does go down this way, fine by me. They would totally deserve each other

Ouch what did the Bucs do?
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Here's another video that shows accurate short and deep passing, good decision making, and mobility up the field:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iK3Ixitvus


Russell's Pro Day interview

No wonder Mayock is so down on Winston after saying like "he throws the ball better than any QB I've ever seen" and talking about how cleaned up his footwork (same things were said about Winston's Pro Day).

Russell talking about his ability to draw up plays the board and react to what coaches are asking.

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Aren't there some white QB busts we can compare him to? Ryan Leaf, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinart, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, etc.

Doesn't matter, black or white. The apt comparison will always be to #######s whose perceived value by supposed experts far exceeds actual value, usually because scouts aren't very good at sniffing out personality factors that have a nasty habit of derailing otherwise promising NFL careers. Ryan Leaf above is one of those guys. Jamarcus Russell another.

Each situation is unique. There has never been a QB in history picked number 1 overall who has been accused of rape, been suspended by college coaches in two sports, and subject in at least three other conduct issues that damaged property, involved stolen good. Never happened. He is one of a kind.

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Aren't there some white QB busts we can compare him to? Ryan Leaf, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinart, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, etc.

Doesn't matter, black or white. The apt comparison will always be to #######s whose perceived value by supposed experts far exceeds actual value, usually because scouts aren't very good at sniffing out personality factors that have a nasty habit of derailing otherwise promising NFL careers. Ryan Leaf above is one of those guys. Jamarcus Russell another.

Each situation is unique. There has never been a QB in history picked number 1 overall who has been accused of rape, been suspended by college coaches in two sports, and subject in at least three other conduct issues that damaged property, involved stolen good. Never happened. He is one of a kind.

Still hasn't happened, actually

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Former Bucs GM Dominik:

“I think it’s rude,” former Buccaneers G.M. Mark Dominik told Jorge Sedano of ESPN Radio, via JoeBucsFan.com. “I think it’s completely off base to call him JaMarcus Russell. I just don’t see the comparison. Look, if you want to say one thing about Jameis [as a football player], the only thing I’d sit there and say is at the end of the season, he lost 17 pounds to go to the [scouting] Combine. I didn’t like that. You now, because I’d like to think he’s playing as well as he can all the way through the bowl series and then getting himself ready for the Combine, instead of having to get himself in shape. But from a football standpoint, from a football intelligence, from a competitor, from a leader, it ain’t close. It’s embarrassing. For my personal opinion, whatever G.M. said that, probably should not be a G.M., quite frankly.”

I will give you that Winston at least started trying to lose weight sooner than Russell, who lost 9 lbs. between the combine and his Pro Day.

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Former Bucs GM Dominik:

“I think it’s rude,” former Buccaneers G.M. Mark Dominik told Jorge Sedano of ESPN Radio, via JoeBucsFan.com. “I think it’s completely off base to call him JaMarcus Russell. I just don’t see the comparison. Look, if you want to say one thing about Jameis [as a football player], the only thing I’d sit there and say is at the end of the season, he lost 17 pounds to go to the [scouting] Combine. I didn’t like that. You now, because I’d like to think he’s playing as well as he can all the way through the bowl series and then getting himself ready for the Combine, instead of having to get himself in shape. But from a football standpoint, from a football intelligence, from a competitor, from a leader, it ain’t close. It’s embarrassing. For my personal opinion, whatever G.M. said that, probably should not be a G.M., quite frankly.”

I will give you that Winston at least started trying to lose weight sooner than Russell, who lost 9 lbs. between the combine and his Pro Day.

That's pretty rich coming from a guy who was an utter failure as a GM.

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Jason Cole @JasonPhilCole 5h5 hours ago

1 other small prob w/ Jameis Winston Publix story: Unless hookup was w/ a manager, person who worked in bakery wouldn't also work in seafood

Besides that, how do you give someone the 'hook up' when they still have to walk out the front door without paying like any other thief would have to do?

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Winston's INT's are a real problem

A few players are usually mentioned when we talk about Winston's interceptions: Dan Marino, who threw 23 interceptions as a senior, Matt Ryan, 19 interceptions, Andrew Luck, 10 interceptions, and Peyton Manning, with 11. Winston's 18 interceptions don't look that bad in that context, but one thing's missing there: pass attempts.

Winston had just 467 attempts to get to his 18 interceptions -- an interception percentage of 3.85%, which is more or less in line with his 2.60% as a freshman with better receiving talent.

But Ryan's 19 interceptions came on a whopping 654 attempts or 2.90%,

Manning's 11 came on 477 attempts or 2.31% and

Luck had 404 attempts for 10 picks, or 2.48%.

Only Dan Marino threw interceptions at a ridiculous rate -- 23 picks on 378 attempts, or a ridiculous 6.08%, but that was an entirely different era of football.

I'll add mine own:

Brett Favre, the NFL's all-time leader in interceptions thrown, had an INT rate his last three years in college of 2.35%.

Edited by cstu
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Aren't there some white QB busts we can compare him to? Ryan Leaf, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinart, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, etc.

Doesn't matter, black or white. The apt comparison will always be to #######s whose perceived value by supposed experts far exceeds actual value, usually because scouts aren't very good at sniffing out personality factors that have a nasty habit of derailing otherwise promising NFL careers. Ryan Leaf above is one of those guys. Jamarcus Russell another.

Each situation is unique. There has never been a QB in history picked number 1 overall who has been accused of rape, been suspended by college coaches in two sports, and subject in at least three other conduct issues that damaged property, involved stolen good. Never happened. He is one of a kind.

I know it doesn't matter. It's silly to compare him to any of these players. He certainly is one of a kind. There has never been a prospect this polarizing considered for the #1 pick.

The Bucs are either going to look very smart for realizing his on the field acumen much outweighs any issues he had with immaturity in his past or they'll look very dumb for ignoring the warning signs that were there all along.

If Jameis' issues were drug or alcohol addiction related I'd be singing a different tune. I see him as an immature young man who put himself in some bad situations with poor decisions. Nothing in his past suggests he'll have chronic off the field issues going forward.

His explanations for his actions during the combine regarding him wanting to be "one of the guys" rang true to me. Once he realized he couldn't operate in anonymity he's been a model citizen as far as I can tell. He's carried himself quite well during this process in many ways, and has shown a great deal of maturity for a 21 year old young man.

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Aren't there some white QB busts we can compare him to? Ryan Leaf, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinart, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, etc.

Doesn't matter, black or white. The apt comparison will always be to #######s whose perceived value by supposed experts far exceeds actual value, usually because scouts aren't very good at sniffing out personality factors that have a nasty habit of derailing otherwise promising NFL careers. Ryan Leaf above is one of those guys. Jamarcus Russell another.

Each situation is unique. There has never been a QB in history picked number 1 overall who has been accused of rape, been suspended by college coaches in two sports, and subject in at least three other conduct issues that damaged property, involved stolen good. Never happened. He is one of a kind.

I know it doesn't matter. It's silly to compare him to any of these players. He certainly is one of a kind. There has never been a prospect this polarizing considered for the #1 pick.

The Bucs are either going to look very smart for realizing his on the field acumen much outweighs any issues he had with immaturity in his past or they'll look very dumb for ignoring the warning signs that were there all along.

If Jameis' issues were drug or alcohol addiction related I'd be singing a different tune. I see him as an immature young man who put himself in some bad situations with poor decisions. Nothing in his past suggests he'll have chronic off the field issues going forward.

His explanations for his actions during the combine regarding him wanting to be "one of the guys" rang true to me. Once he realized he couldn't operate in anonymity he's been a model citizen as far as I can tell. He's carried himself quite well during this process in many ways, and has shown a great deal of maturity for a 21 year old young man.

We disagree on the issue of his past being a predictor or not of future behavior, but h/t for this being a very balanced post.

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to QB Jameis Winston, NO

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