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WR Martavis Bryant (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
devouredbychaos
Footballguy
Wow. As someone said earlier, I definitely think this guy could be the waiver wire gem of the season. Glad I dropped Decker for him last week.
Impossible for him to sustain this kind of td production. We need him to get more snaps, more receptions and yardage.
I know I'm nitpicking but do we really think he's gonna score Tds every week? So in the weeks where he doesn't and he gives us 3-4 pts in a standard scoring format that's gonna suck.
Nonetheless he is a monster wr3 or flex play week in and week out from here. Live the fact that unlike Benjamin who draws every teams too corner and perhaps bracket coverage from safeties, Antonio bryant draws all the attn and Martavis is enjoying one on one coverage from sub par corners.
I know I'm nitpicking but do we really think he's gonna score Tds every week? So in the weeks where he doesn't and he gives us 3-4 pts in a standard scoring format that's gonna suck.
Nonetheless he is a monster wr3 or flex play week in and week out from here. Live the fact that unlike Benjamin who draws every teams too corner and perhaps bracket coverage from safeties, Antonio bryant draws all the attn and Martavis is enjoying one on one coverage from sub par corners.
steelers1080
Footballguy
I think he starts coming down to earth on the TDs but starts to get more usage/yards. He won't average 15 points a game for the whole season, but he could average 8-10 which is still really good for a Rookie.
Wheaton could also see an uptick in value since Bryant takes so much attention.
Wheaton could also see an uptick in value since Bryant takes so much attention.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think we have to pump the breaks a bit on Martavis. Ben is coming off a sick two game stretch and as that production contracts, so will the numbers for guys like Bryant. Antonio is still far and away the target monster here and that will remain the same. But Bryant and Wheaton will be hit and miss I think. Unless Bryant is simply uncoverable by a particular corner. He's so big and fast that he could have serious potential (like top 10 potential) I don't see any glaring weaknesses in his game.
6'4" guys who run a legit 4.42 don't grow on trees. You are talking guys like who? Mike Evans, AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Calvin, Demaryius, Dez.
Bryant's potential upside is off the charts. I don't know that he'll get the targets with Brown over there hogging targets.
6'4" guys who run a legit 4.42 don't grow on trees. You are talking guys like who? Mike Evans, AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Calvin, Demaryius, Dez.
Bryant's potential upside is off the charts. I don't know that he'll get the targets with Brown over there hogging targets.
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Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Is it possible Ben had two big games because this guy was there to catch 4 of those TDs along while the other Bryant is doing what he always does?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think so. I hope so. But I don't see Ben keeping up a 430 and 6TD pace. Even during this run Ben has thrown the ball 86 times and Bryant has only been the target of 12 of those.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Has that changed his production and do you think he playing time will only grow or decrease?
lod01
Footballguy
It appears Green also had 6 TDs in his first 4 games so Bryant needs to top that with 2 TDs next week against the hapless Jets.
lod01
Footballguy
His playing time will increase. Fortunately OC Haley won't pump the brakes and neither will Ben R. There are going to be some duds in the next few weeks no doubt without an increase in targets. Then we will get some no clue 'I told you so's' pouring into this thread. Big Ben always wanted this type of guy since Burress left town. His big weakness is that he's not a TRUE natural hands catcher. He will let certain passes into his body and drop some easy ones. If he has t go get it he will use his hands to go up and high point it like he did last week. I think these guys like scoring points out the ###. THey don't seem like they are going to lay down with a 14 point lead like Gary Kubiak would.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm not seeing it grow a ton. Why would it? If it does grow, who loses touches? Bell? Brown? Probably Wheaton I would think. But he's a young gun as well and soundly placed himself above Bryant in the preseason. I don't see them wanting to stunt his growth much if the mix is working as-is.
Gvindy
Footballguy
One thing is for sure, he's looking for Supermarts big body in the Red Zone. The way their offense is clicking I like his chances. Another great matchup v NYJ this week.
steelers1080
Footballguy
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Look at Ben's production this year before and up to the minute this kid stepped on the field and compare it to after. Now look at the two time periods for red zone stats. 1/3 of his tds last two games have gone to Bryant. You'd be a fool to think Ben's two game performance had nothing to do with it. Nuff said.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Starting Martavis in my league this upcoming week.
Depending on the TB QB situation this week my starters will be Julio, Martavis, and Mike Evans over Dez and OBJ. Martavis doesn't have a lot of catches, but he makes the most out of them and is playing a weak NYJ secondary.
Depending on the TB QB situation this week my starters will be Julio, Martavis, and Mike Evans over Dez and OBJ. Martavis doesn't have a lot of catches, but he makes the most out of them and is playing a weak NYJ secondary.
devouredbychaos
Footballguy
Just got offered Bryant for Gore in a keeper league. I take this and run, right? The other team has Hyde. My RBs are pretty solid and I can afford to lose Gore, who's on a downhill slide anyways.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I don't know if his PT will increase, but even if it does, his targets/production probably won't. He is, at best, the #2 WR (although I think he's still "technically" behind Wheaton). They are not going to put up 6 passing TDs each week. Ben's not going to average 400+ yards through the air each week. The last 2 weeks, Bryant has gotten 13-14% of the targets. With Brown and Bell ahead of him, I don't see that changing much. If we assume 35 pass attempts/game, you're looking at 5 targets/week for Bryant. He's not going to score 2 TDs a week on 5 targets.
Don't want to turn this into ac but I might try to package him and Olsen or kelce for Brady to the guy with Rodgers and his Hilton on bye.Edit: just got the deal done.
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mnmplayer
Footballguy
Warning, had a debate with a long time friend league mate on Moncreif vs Bryant as I picked up Bryant and he Moncreif last week. I hashed together bits and pieces of our conversation and wrote the findings below, thought the Shark Pool might enjoy this study as I took a deeper look at Ben/Bryant's performances. I was told that Ben can't support two top WRs and that Ben won't throw 6 TDs every week (which he did the following week LOL) etc. If you don't want to read a long post just jump to the end and read the bolded.
I've heard the "Ben won't throw 6 TDs every week" chant from guys in my league, which is partly why I was able to land this guy on waivers, Moncrief was bid up much higher and admittedly had more targets in his big game, but I see it a little differently.
People forget that the Pitt offense and the entire team were reeling through a mini crisis leading up to the Hou game in week 7. Week 5 was a poor offensive showing vs JAX and the loss to CLE in week 6 led many to write this team off for 2014. Remember that they gave TB their only win of the season during week 4 and this was a home game! The offense while still adequately flowing through Brown/Bell in fantasy (although this was near the two worst games of the season for both) was not producing much as a team as those guys were getting keyed on and the book on how to stop Pitt was out.
If you watched the week 7 game you know things didn't start off well for Pitt offense, and this looked like more of the same from the previous two games. Hou has a good pass rush and was making Pitt offense look bad once again, which wasn't surprising considering CLE defense was giving them fits the week before and they have nowhere near the pass rush of Hou. With 1:36 left to go in the 1st half Hou was in control of the game 13-3 in Pittsburg and the Pitt offense was looking like it would put together a 3rd consecutive horrid offensive game in a row to continue the trend. I feel at this point the Pitt coaching staff was getting desperate as they have now seen 10 quarters, 3 weeks in a row of poor offensive football play. During this stretch Ben has 2 TDs in 10 quarters.
Enter Martavis Bryant. Facing one on one coverage (remember the book on stopping Pitt is keying on Bell/Brown) Bryant burnt the corner for a 34 yard TD and had at least 4 yards separation before adjusting to the pass which was late, and he had to slow down to catch it and let the defender close to within a yard, but still made his first NFL catch in his first activated NFL game. It showed a nice adjustment to Ben's less than perfect throw.
Hou then implodes with turnovers in the final minute of the game and hands Ben an easy TD on the 2 yard line to Bell and Brown threw for another on a trick play. Pitt, who was down 13-3 with 1:36 left in the half goes into the locker room at halftime up 24-13 scoring 3 TDs in one and a half minutes. I do believe that were it not for Bryant entering the game vs Hou, Hou would have gone into halftime with a lead as I doubt Pitt would have even scored a TD, let alone 3. Houston's offense probably would nave not even seen the field again in the 1st half to turn the ball over repeatedly.
I won’t get into the next two games because there are plenty of articles out there praising Ben for throwing 12 TDs over his next two games, but we need to ask ourselves if we can write off Bryant's performances as a garbage time TD whore who has benefitted from Ben’s anomalous 2 game stretch of 12 TDs, or are Bryant’s elite measurables helping Ben to make the leap from QB2 to Elite QB producer? Consider that since 1:36 in the Hou game, 5 of Ben’s 14 TDs have gone to Bryant or 36%. Also consider that all of Bryant’s TDs were not of the garbage type variety.
When Bryant TDs occurred:
Q2 vs Hou vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q1 vs Ind vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q3 vs Ind vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q2 vs Bal vs zone coverage
Q4 vs Bal vs zone coverage (Bal 17 Pit 29 9:37 left) within 12 points
Another thing we learned was that previous to the BAL game, Bryant had produced exclusively against 1 on 1 coverage. It was nice to see him produce vs zone during the BAL game. None of these were garbage time TDs. I am not saying Ben didn’t have garbage time TDs. He did. But Bryant wasn’t even on the field for those plays. 5:17 left in Q4 IND game. Heath Miller TD. 2:00 left in Q4 of BAL game. Matt Spaeth TD. Both of these were in FG range on 4th down. If we take Bryant’s TDs out of the equation, Ben throw’s 9 TDs over 3 games, which while being good is nothing to write home about. Two of Ben’s TDs were garbage time to TEs so really without the outburst of Bryant (helping Pit to a huge lead) I feel Ben would have thrown for only 7 TDs over these 3 games, because both of the garbage time TDs were on 4th down in FG range so I don’t feel those would have surfaced under normal conditions. One might say Wheaten would have scored these TDs. I’ll leave that argument for another person but will point out that he also had zero TDs before Bryant stepped onto the field this year and has not been a red zone threat. Maybe Wheaten would have converted 1 or 2 of these TDs, who knows. One thing is for sure, if we throw out the two garbage time TDs Bryant’s impact becomes even more impressive. Since he has stepped onto the field over the last 10 quarters and 1:36 minutes, Bryant has caught 5 of the last 12 non garbage time TDs, 42% of Ben's totals.
I think this kid who has scored 5 TDs in his first 3 games had something to do with the Ben Roethlisberger outburst, so I won’t discount his performance as something he got from the scrap table of Ben Roethlisberger. I don’t view it that way. I view him more as an impact player that serves as the last piece of the puzzle to increase Ben from a QB2/fringe QB1 to an elite QB (considering Brown/Bell are already there). Remember that prior to Bryant stepping onto the field; Ben was playing well outside the top 12 QBs as a mid-grade QB2. Ben has lived as a fringe QB1 to mid QB2 since his glory days many moons ago, but is currently ranked as the #3 QB this year. He looks like a lock to finish with 30+ TDs for the first time since 2007. The second Bryant hit the field, the outburst started so I believe there is causation, however many will point to it only being correlation. Either way the chemistry is there and with Brown/Bell taking their required attention, and deservedly so, I can see Bryant continuing to produce going forward, especially if his snap counts continue to trend upward and even if Ben doesn't throw for 6 TDs per game. Even if Ben struggles to throw for only 1.4 TDs per game (his average before the back to back 6 TD games) here on out and Bryant captures 60-75% of the snap counts (previously he was capturing less than 50%) Bryant should produce and Ben will finish with 32 TDs, but I think he has already proven that with Bryant on the field, Ben will produce much more than 1.4 TDs per game going forward. How many is anyone's guess, but Ben has only thrown for 7 non garbage time TDs in the last 3 games to players other than Bryant. 2.3 per game ... nothing special about that for a three game stretch. Mix Bryant in and you have something special.
I've heard the "Ben won't throw 6 TDs every week" chant from guys in my league, which is partly why I was able to land this guy on waivers, Moncrief was bid up much higher and admittedly had more targets in his big game, but I see it a little differently.
People forget that the Pitt offense and the entire team were reeling through a mini crisis leading up to the Hou game in week 7. Week 5 was a poor offensive showing vs JAX and the loss to CLE in week 6 led many to write this team off for 2014. Remember that they gave TB their only win of the season during week 4 and this was a home game! The offense while still adequately flowing through Brown/Bell in fantasy (although this was near the two worst games of the season for both) was not producing much as a team as those guys were getting keyed on and the book on how to stop Pitt was out.
If you watched the week 7 game you know things didn't start off well for Pitt offense, and this looked like more of the same from the previous two games. Hou has a good pass rush and was making Pitt offense look bad once again, which wasn't surprising considering CLE defense was giving them fits the week before and they have nowhere near the pass rush of Hou. With 1:36 left to go in the 1st half Hou was in control of the game 13-3 in Pittsburg and the Pitt offense was looking like it would put together a 3rd consecutive horrid offensive game in a row to continue the trend. I feel at this point the Pitt coaching staff was getting desperate as they have now seen 10 quarters, 3 weeks in a row of poor offensive football play. During this stretch Ben has 2 TDs in 10 quarters.
Enter Martavis Bryant. Facing one on one coverage (remember the book on stopping Pitt is keying on Bell/Brown) Bryant burnt the corner for a 34 yard TD and had at least 4 yards separation before adjusting to the pass which was late, and he had to slow down to catch it and let the defender close to within a yard, but still made his first NFL catch in his first activated NFL game. It showed a nice adjustment to Ben's less than perfect throw.
Hou then implodes with turnovers in the final minute of the game and hands Ben an easy TD on the 2 yard line to Bell and Brown threw for another on a trick play. Pitt, who was down 13-3 with 1:36 left in the half goes into the locker room at halftime up 24-13 scoring 3 TDs in one and a half minutes. I do believe that were it not for Bryant entering the game vs Hou, Hou would have gone into halftime with a lead as I doubt Pitt would have even scored a TD, let alone 3. Houston's offense probably would nave not even seen the field again in the 1st half to turn the ball over repeatedly.
I won’t get into the next two games because there are plenty of articles out there praising Ben for throwing 12 TDs over his next two games, but we need to ask ourselves if we can write off Bryant's performances as a garbage time TD whore who has benefitted from Ben’s anomalous 2 game stretch of 12 TDs, or are Bryant’s elite measurables helping Ben to make the leap from QB2 to Elite QB producer? Consider that since 1:36 in the Hou game, 5 of Ben’s 14 TDs have gone to Bryant or 36%. Also consider that all of Bryant’s TDs were not of the garbage type variety.
When Bryant TDs occurred:
Q2 vs Hou vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q1 vs Ind vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q3 vs Ind vs 1 on 1 coverage
Q2 vs Bal vs zone coverage
Q4 vs Bal vs zone coverage (Bal 17 Pit 29 9:37 left) within 12 points
Another thing we learned was that previous to the BAL game, Bryant had produced exclusively against 1 on 1 coverage. It was nice to see him produce vs zone during the BAL game. None of these were garbage time TDs. I am not saying Ben didn’t have garbage time TDs. He did. But Bryant wasn’t even on the field for those plays. 5:17 left in Q4 IND game. Heath Miller TD. 2:00 left in Q4 of BAL game. Matt Spaeth TD. Both of these were in FG range on 4th down. If we take Bryant’s TDs out of the equation, Ben throw’s 9 TDs over 3 games, which while being good is nothing to write home about. Two of Ben’s TDs were garbage time to TEs so really without the outburst of Bryant (helping Pit to a huge lead) I feel Ben would have thrown for only 7 TDs over these 3 games, because both of the garbage time TDs were on 4th down in FG range so I don’t feel those would have surfaced under normal conditions. One might say Wheaten would have scored these TDs. I’ll leave that argument for another person but will point out that he also had zero TDs before Bryant stepped onto the field this year and has not been a red zone threat. Maybe Wheaten would have converted 1 or 2 of these TDs, who knows. One thing is for sure, if we throw out the two garbage time TDs Bryant’s impact becomes even more impressive. Since he has stepped onto the field over the last 10 quarters and 1:36 minutes, Bryant has caught 5 of the last 12 non garbage time TDs, 42% of Ben's totals.
I think this kid who has scored 5 TDs in his first 3 games had something to do with the Ben Roethlisberger outburst, so I won’t discount his performance as something he got from the scrap table of Ben Roethlisberger. I don’t view it that way. I view him more as an impact player that serves as the last piece of the puzzle to increase Ben from a QB2/fringe QB1 to an elite QB (considering Brown/Bell are already there). Remember that prior to Bryant stepping onto the field; Ben was playing well outside the top 12 QBs as a mid-grade QB2. Ben has lived as a fringe QB1 to mid QB2 since his glory days many moons ago, but is currently ranked as the #3 QB this year. He looks like a lock to finish with 30+ TDs for the first time since 2007. The second Bryant hit the field, the outburst started so I believe there is causation, however many will point to it only being correlation. Either way the chemistry is there and with Brown/Bell taking their required attention, and deservedly so, I can see Bryant continuing to produce going forward, especially if his snap counts continue to trend upward and even if Ben doesn't throw for 6 TDs per game. Even if Ben struggles to throw for only 1.4 TDs per game (his average before the back to back 6 TD games) here on out and Bryant captures 60-75% of the snap counts (previously he was capturing less than 50%) Bryant should produce and Ben will finish with 32 TDs, but I think he has already proven that with Bryant on the field, Ben will produce much more than 1.4 TDs per game going forward. How many is anyone's guess, but Ben has only thrown for 7 non garbage time TDs in the last 3 games to players other than Bryant. 2.3 per game ... nothing special about that for a three game stretch. Mix Bryant in and you have something special.
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lod01
Footballguy
All day and just laugh about it. That is actually who I traded away for the right to draft Bryant in the 2nd round of our dynasty draft.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
Apparently the guy I traded was the only person who thought otherwise, my league was upset.
Forsett, Bryant and Owen Daniels
Megatron, Bush and Romo
Its a start two TE league, elevates Daniels a little bit.
tone1oc
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Seems like plenty of meat left on the bone for Martavius Bryant.
Cotchery had 10 TDs last year as the "size" target in Pittsburgh. He was all of 6'1".
Ben threw 28 TDs on 4300 yards. Ben is now on a pace of 39 and 4800.
Antonio Brown is still "getting his" - on pace to go from 8 to 14 TDs.
Bryant played almost as many snaps (just 5 less) as Wheaton this last game. Also had double the snaps of Lance Moore or Heyward-Bey.
He's had more snaps then Moore and Heyward Bey each of his three games since being activated.
He has gone from 34%, to 38% to 49% usage.
Consider that Wheaton was at 94% and Moore at 50% when the debacle of a game vs Cleveland caused some the changes.
Cotchery had 10 TDs last year as the "size" target in Pittsburgh. He was all of 6'1".
Ben threw 28 TDs on 4300 yards. Ben is now on a pace of 39 and 4800.
Antonio Brown is still "getting his" - on pace to go from 8 to 14 TDs.
Bryant played almost as many snaps (just 5 less) as Wheaton this last game. Also had double the snaps of Lance Moore or Heyward-Bey.
He's had more snaps then Moore and Heyward Bey each of his three games since being activated.
He has gone from 34%, to 38% to 49% usage.
Consider that Wheaton was at 94% and Moore at 50% when the debacle of a game vs Cleveland caused some the changes.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
What happens when Bens numbers comebCk down to Earth though?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Back down to 4300 and 28? Or a bit better. Plenty of meat on the bone still.
Especially when you consider snaps and Cotcherys void.
Totally removing those last 2 "GOAT" games = 4250/23 pace. Brown dips down to an 11 TD pace.
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steelers1080
Footballguy
Hopefully that doesn't happen against a porous Jets secondary. Le'veon Bell should start taking some touchdowns, but this week against the tough Jets run defense it makes more sense to throw a lot again.
Hopefully the new Ben is a 4 TD a game beast. We've never seen him with an actual pocket and time to throw before. Expecting 6 TDs every game is ridiculous, but 3-4 could be reasonable. And expecting Bryant to be a big red zone target is also reasonable.
Hopefully the new Ben is a 4 TD a game beast. We've never seen him with an actual pocket and time to throw before. Expecting 6 TDs every game is ridiculous, but 3-4 could be reasonable. And expecting Bryant to be a big red zone target is also reasonable.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
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Gvindy
Footballguy
greedygoat
Footballguy
I have both and I am leaving Bryant in my starting lineup over Floyd from here on out.weebs said:
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
Very tempted to start Bryant over Dez.
Because the numbers he put up the last two weeks, when Roethlisberger threw 86 passes were with 5 targets?
Because Roethlisberger isn't going to pass the ball 43 times/game for the rest of the season?
Because Roethlisberger is likely going to drop back down to 38/39 attempts per game over the rest of the season?
Because Brown is (barring injury) going to see about 75 targets over the rest of the season? (11/game)
Because Bell is (barring injury) going to see around 35 targets over the rest of the season? (5/game)
Because Wheaton is (barring injury) going to see around 30 targets over the rest of the season? (4/game)
Because Miller is (barring injury) going to see around 35 targets over the rest of the season? (5/game)
Because the other WRs/RBs/TEs are likely going to see around 50 targets over the rest of the season (7/game)
That leaves about 7 targets/game for Bryant. Could he jump to 8 or 9? Maybe, but I doubt it. He's not going to surpass Bell or Brown, and Roethlisberger isn't going to lock onto him.
When the Steelers stop throwing 6 TD passes/game, and he stops scoring TDs on 50% of his catches, he won't be the FF stud that his owners want him to be. That's just the most likely outcome.
Run It Up
Footballguy
mnmplayer
Footballguy
miskatonic
Footballguy
He's on the wire in my redraft league. Considering snatching him up and playing him alongside Brown (and Demaryius) and benching Sanu.
Why not? Care to provide any reason why these guys will see their targets cut even more than I already cut them?
cstu
Footballguy
The last 3 games Miller and Wheaton each have 11 targets (3.7 a game). I also think that a guy who has 5 TD's on 17 targets will get the ball more.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Pretty much this, its the guys first three games, I expect his targets to increase, and the people I expect them to come from are Wheaton and Miller.
