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Clash of Clans (Official thread)


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Totally agree. If you're not playing the game all the time, you're going to get rolled a ton if your defenses aren't upgraded enough and you'll never generate enough resources to make the massive upgr

This thread is 482 pages and at least 300 of those are us collectively trying to figure out what the hell Culdeus is talking about.

Going to put together a whole album of CoC songs First cut "You Had A Bad Raid"

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But yeah, the wall thing is a little out of control. For awhile we didn't really run into many clans with TH10 and crappy walls. Most people just sort of level walls at a pretty steady rate.

Now that most of my focus is looking at walls, it's really starting to jump out that they overdid it. Especially in light of the jump/eq changes/additions.

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On an actual game note, the OH/FYSB war had some really nice attacks. Obviously jake has a lot of 3 star videos.

The healer walk is quickly becoming the trendy way to tackle th9 bases. What's interesting is that for lower hero levels and max golems what you see them do is heal the golems with just one healer or two rather than heal the queen with 3 healers.

Healers only heal heroes at half strength so if you walk a weak hero you could end up with a dead queen if she sees too much firepower. Dropping a max cc golem or a level 4 golem and heal that and you get more time.

Great budget way to get your attack going.

People are walking all sort of stuff now. Max pekkas, golems, queens, everything. The new AI makes this such a strong strategy.

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Here's something I threw together to illustrate the matchmaking issues.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZ0FVMVZpWWRkdGM/view?usp=sharing

This is the sum total of every opponent fbgs played which I took down data for. I highlighted the interesting sections.

There was some questioning of why we got matched with people with max xbows when we had L1 xbows. Well this very clearly explains why this is so. The distribution of TH9 is quite tight compared to TH10. There is roughly 2000 weight points separating an early TH9 and late TH9 and an additional 6000!!!! separating an early TH10 with a max TH10.

You can find tiers in this that come out very cleanly. (Max8, Max9, L3 infernos both done, etc.)

So you want to know why you might get outmatched a bit in the TH9 range, and why fighting wars gets alot harder, alot more quickly at TH9, look no further than this plot. Tells the whole story.

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Here's something I threw together to illustrate the matchmaking issues.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZ0FVMVZpWWRkdGM/view?usp=sharing

This is the sum total of every opponent fbgs played which I took down data for. I highlighted the interesting sections.

There was some questioning of why we got matched with people with max xbows when we had L1 xbows. Well this very clearly explains why this is so. The distribution of TH9 is quite tight compared to TH10. There is roughly 2000 weight points separating an early TH9 and late TH9 and an additional 6000!!!! separating an early TH10 with a max TH10.

You can find tiers in this that come out very cleanly. (Max8, Max9, L3 infernos both done, etc.)

So you want to know why you might get outmatched a bit in the TH9 range, and why fighting wars gets alot harder, alot more quickly at TH9, look no further than this plot. Tells the whole story.

So upgrade xbows quick because it doesn't mean much. I'M ON IT.

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Here's something I threw together to illustrate the matchmaking issues.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZ0FVMVZpWWRkdGM/view?usp=sharing

This is the sum total of every opponent fbgs played which I took down data for. I highlighted the interesting sections.

There was some questioning of why we got matched with people with max xbows when we had L1 xbows. Well this very clearly explains why this is so. The distribution of TH9 is quite tight compared to TH10. There is roughly 2000 weight points separating an early TH9 and late TH9 and an additional 6000!!!! separating an early TH10 with a max TH10.

You can find tiers in this that come out very cleanly. (Max8, Max9, L3 infernos both done, etc.)

So you want to know why you might get outmatched a bit in the TH9 range, and why fighting wars gets alot harder, alot more quickly at TH9, look no further than this plot. Tells the whole story.

So upgrade xbows quick because it doesn't mean much. I'M ON IT.

I should probably turn that plot into a heat map. That would illustrate a little better the impact.

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Here's something I threw together to illustrate the matchmaking issues.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZ0FVMVZpWWRkdGM/view?usp=sharing

This is the sum total of every opponent fbgs played which I took down data for. I highlighted the interesting sections.

There was some questioning of why we got matched with people with max xbows when we had L1 xbows. Well this very clearly explains why this is so. The distribution of TH9 is quite tight compared to TH10. There is roughly 2000 weight points separating an early TH9 and late TH9 and an additional 6000!!!! separating an early TH10 with a max TH10.

You can find tiers in this that come out very cleanly. (Max8, Max9, L3 infernos both done, etc.)

So you want to know why you might get outmatched a bit in the TH9 range, and why fighting wars gets alot harder, alot more quickly at TH9, look no further than this plot. Tells the whole story.

So upgrade xbows quick because it doesn't mean much. I'M ON IT.

I should probably turn that plot into a heat map go outside, wash the dishes, or do like 10,000 more meaningful things with your short time you have on this planet and yes this is coming from someone who has thousands of posts on a messageboard. That would illustrate a little better the impact.

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I've been spending most of my game-playing time on Marvel Future Fight. That is all.

Fallout Shelter here.

I heard this just came to Android. But it's pretty repetitive, is that right?

I enjoyed the Fallout games, but didn't finish the last two. At some point I don't play for a week, turn it back on, and I'm like pick up a quest, walk outside, and die because I forgot I was a vampire or some ####.

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I've been spending most of my game-playing time on Marvel Future Fight. That is all.

Fallout Shelter here.

I heard this just came to Android. But it's pretty repetitive, is that right?

I enjoyed the Fallout games, but didn't finish the last two. At some point I don't play for a week, turn it back on, and I'm like pick up a quest, walk outside, and die because I forgot I was a vampire or some ####.

Kinda repetitive. There's not much action. It's like Sim Tower but you build downward.

You gotta balance population growth with generating resources, all the while arming your inhabitants with better weapons to defend against raiders.

It's fun so far. Next week... who knows.

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Just got to TH8 a couple of days ago from a maxxed TH7. I've got all the new defenses except 1 hidden Tesla.

Anyone got a good TH8 base I can copy? I've looked on all the usual websites and took one from a Reddit post, but it got hit pretty hard and I'm not sure it's going to hold up very well.

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Just got to TH8 a couple of days ago from a maxxed TH7. I've got all the new defenses except 1 hidden Tesla.

Anyone got a good TH8 base I can copy? I've looked on all the usual websites and took one from a Reddit post, but it got hit pretty hard and I'm not sure it's going to hold up very well.

Pop into FBGS and have a look at Cliff JR's. It has held up very well for me.

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Just got to TH8 a couple of days ago from a maxxed TH7. I've got all the new defenses except 1 hidden Tesla.

Anyone got a good TH8 base I can copy? I've looked on all the usual websites and took one from a Reddit post, but it got hit pretty hard and I'm not sure it's going to hold up very well.

I was using this base for TH8. It was a pretty good defense against giant attacks. They would always circle around the outer ring.

http://www.clashingtips.com/2015/01/th8-4-mortar-farming-base-design-golden-planet.html?m=1

This is the base I am using now at early TH9

http://cocland.com/base-designs/crux-farming-base-layout

Edited by Quez
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Some sick high level walks

https://youtu.be/8BujLx8JW1s

Damn

They have some wet dream walk targets this war and I don't anticipate them putting up much of a fight. I mean 3 is a total joke. A level 5 queen with all healers could get 50%. And that's not the only candidate.

I mean if we just knew someone that had a max queen and wanted 25 TH10s to pick from a war to get 6.....

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Some sick high level walks

https://youtu.be/8BujLx8JW1s

Damn

They have some wet dream walk targets this war and I don't anticipate them putting up much of a fight. I mean 3 is a total joke. A level 5 queen with all healers could get 50%. And that's not the only candidate.

I mean if we just knew someone that had a max queen and wanted 25 TH10s to pick from a war to get 6.....

We callin targets on tools?

Want to give this AQ walk a try - will have AQ36 when this war kicks off

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Some sick high level walks

https://youtu.be/8BujLx8JW1s

Damn

They have some wet dream walk targets this war and I don't anticipate them putting up much of a fight. I mean 3 is a total joke. A level 5 queen with all healers could get 50%. And that's not the only candidate.

I mean if we just knew someone that had a max queen and wanted 25 TH10s to pick from a war to get 6.....

We callin targets on tools?

Want to give this AQ walk a try - will have AQ36 when this war kicks off

Call 12

Here's the plan.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZG8yb1pQMktRWTA/view?usp=sharing

3 is almost too easy, plus I think it would make a great lollololol pekka walk for 3 stars. There are too many ways to get that base dead and also make it funny.

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Time to take this to PM, fellas.

I understand that the disagreement is tiring to some, in fact I find myself exhausted of it often. If it were simply a difference in personal philosophies I would ignore or even PM.

Unfortunately this self-deprivation of defense has become FBG clan doctrine, which merits open discussion. In my opinion it has not worked. It has not given the desired result. It is time to recognize it as a failed experiment and move on.

The idea was that our x.5 would count as x.0, and give us an advantage. In reality, our x.5 far more often match with x+1. That is not an advantage, it is a handicap.

I'm pretty sure that everyone one of us here believe that offense should be developed before defense. Let that be our philosophy.

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they've only changed the forumula once, and applied one hot fix. If something went really odd I'd pick up on it. I capture fbgs weights every 2-4 weeks or so and I'd immediately know something was up if they snuck something in.

How would you pick up on it?

If tonight, they change offensive weight from 0% to 50%, what would you observe? How would your patient zero tell you there was a change? You are still skirting the question.

The storages. What's in the storages after prep day. If they masked this then I'd be screwed. I'd be left with trying to look at lootable, and lootable doesn't seem to tell the whole story because, while rare, you can have people with more lootable, but less weight, most commonly you can have someone with same lootable and different weights. So the math on those is different in some manner.

My focus and everyone who tries to crack this has always been on storage values.

Now we're getting somewhere!

The crux of the issue is that you are steadfast that storage values correlate perfectly with war weight. You are not open to any other possibility.

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Can we agree on that?

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Here's something I threw together to illustrate the matchmaking issues.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneZ0FVMVZpWWRkdGM/view?usp=sharing

This is the sum total of every opponent fbgs played which I took down data for. I highlighted the interesting sections.

There was some questioning of why we got matched with people with max xbows when we had L1 xbows. Well this very clearly explains why this is so. The distribution of TH9 is quite tight compared to TH10. There is roughly 2000 weight points separating an early TH9 and late TH9 and an additional 6000!!!! separating an early TH10 with a max TH10.

You can find tiers in this that come out very cleanly. (Max8, Max9, L3 infernos both done, etc.)

So you want to know why you might get outmatched a bit in the TH9 range, and why fighting wars gets alot harder, alot more quickly at TH9, look no further than this plot. Tells the whole story.

So upgrade xbows quick because it doesn't mean much. I'M ON IT.

Culdeus, it is awesome that you have collected all this data. Would you be willing to share it with us?

Unfortunately, the plot you linked doesn't illustrate the matchmaking issue, let alone explain it. If we want to illustrate it, we could plot that data against the FBG storage values for the same period.

If we want to explain the problem, we could overlay xbow and inferno values (the assumption is that those are the heavyweights contributing to our problem). I don't suppose you have those also?

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On a different note, the snipes on me lately have been coming from high above in an overwhelming fashion. My last 14 defenses, only three took more than one trophy:

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-6

-8

-1

-2

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

I've been slowly climbing (unintentionally) above 3300 trophies. Are the other guys in champs seeing the same thing?

Edited by sartre
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they've only changed the forumula once, and applied one hot fix. If something went really odd I'd pick up on it. I capture fbgs weights every 2-4 weeks or so and I'd immediately know something was up if they snuck something in.

How would you pick up on it?

If tonight, they change offensive weight from 0% to 50%, what would you observe? How would your patient zero tell you there was a change? You are still skirting the question.

The storages. What's in the storages after prep day. If they masked this then I'd be screwed. I'd be left with trying to look at lootable, and lootable doesn't seem to tell the whole story because, while rare, you can have people with more lootable, but less weight, most commonly you can have someone with same lootable and different weights. So the math on those is different in some manner.

My focus and everyone who tries to crack this has always been on storage values.

Now we're getting somewhere!

The crux of the issue is that you are steadfast that storage values correlate perfectly with war weight. You are not open to any other possibility.

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Can we agree on that?

If the storage is not the war weight the arranged matches would not take place, can we agree on that?

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they've only changed the forumula once, and applied one hot fix. If something went really odd I'd pick up on it. I capture fbgs weights every 2-4 weeks or so and I'd immediately know something was up if they snuck something in.

How would you pick up on it?

If tonight, they change offensive weight from 0% to 50%, what would you observe? How would your patient zero tell you there was a change? You are still skirting the question.

The storages. What's in the storages after prep day. If they masked this then I'd be screwed. I'd be left with trying to look at lootable, and lootable doesn't seem to tell the whole story because, while rare, you can have people with more lootable, but less weight, most commonly you can have someone with same lootable and different weights. So the math on those is different in some manner.

My focus and everyone who tries to crack this has always been on storage values.

Now we're getting somewhere!

The crux of the issue is that you are steadfast that storage values correlate perfectly with war weight. You are not open to any other possibility.

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Can we agree on that?

If the storage is not the war weight the arranged matches would not take place, can we agree on that?

No, I think arranging a match is not terribly difficult. Having two clans with similar composition to hit the button at the same time would suffice the majority of the time. Using the storage values for that is a neat exercise because it probably helps a little, particulary when there are additional clans searching at the same time. But far from it, if you think it's the only way to make it work.

So, answer mine then:

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Do you agree?

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I was thinking that maybe all of the FBG Clans should be broken up and we should have a draft. Let's discuss this please instead of that other topic.

But not all the members want to war, so I think we should have a clan that is serious 50 man wars all the time, a not so serious war 3 times a week clan, a farming clan, and a holder clan. So it's not confusing, I think new clans should be created for each, with detailed descriptions for all to read.

Then we have a draft, based on storage war weight as well as a yet to be determined formula for tie breakers.

The remaining members get put into a 5th clan with Bucky where donation levels are not monitored.

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Here's the central issue relating to the meta question of whether delaying defense matters.

First off, assumptions and data methods:

The game will try it's best to match your clan's curve +/- 10% at all levels. I quit sampling 100%, but on the matches of less than 20 minutes I sample every 5 bases. I figure that's good enough.

I quit sampling at matches lasting past 20 min, however, we get so few of those I would have sample size issues even if we did have longer match times.

20 minute is supercells own patch notes about their matchmaking. I have no reason to think they are lying here.

For TH9

TH9 war weight is an extremely narrow window. In my scale it's less than 2000. Why does this matter? Well, the tiniest little thing you do can swing you to the top of the heap quickly.

Why is this bad? Well, for one thing coming in from th8 at roughly 13500, placing queen gets you 15000 right away, then it's only 10 upgrades to 17500.

17500 gives you a range of ~19000 to 16000. 19000 is baby th10. 16000 is baby th9.

Lets say you punt the heavy defense and get to the 16000 range (setting aside mortars, L2/3 xbow) and keep walls skull for now. That gives you a range of ~18000 to ~14000 that could be a max th9, yes, but it could also be a very rushed TH9. And a low inferno 9 is NOT drawing a real TH10. Period. Not at least on a 20 minute search.

TH10

TH10 doesn't have this issue. Most people when they hit TH10 set the infernos, set the xbows and max them, quickly. That skyrockets them into their own tier where they will just simply draw bases with max infernos and xbows. That separation is so wide that a max TH9 simply can't draw a max th10. There's roughly a 6000 weight jump in doing this. There's just simply no point in not maxing infernos once you build them. As you can see from the plots the "no mans land" is wide. Odds are you end up there you'll just pull a max base anyways.

It comes down to this in a nutshell

For TH9 do you really think the 50DPS increase from two xbow level is worth the risk you draw a baby TH10? Can your clan handle the baby th10? If so, then fine.

For TH10 it's not nearly as big a deal. There is no TH11 (yet) so there's not some sort of base that exists out there that you don't have troops to handle for at least 2 stars. 2 stars is usually more than enough to win wars in the TH10 range. Not so in TH9.

The worst place to be imo is a max th9 with big defenses and crappy heroes. < 15/15. This means nearly certainly you can't handle a decent th9 base and you are now drawing at least a strong th9 that someone else has to deal with. If you find yourself at max th9 with low heroes by all means hit that th10 button. Yesterday. If you intend to max heroes at th9 then stay awhile.

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No, I think arranging a match is not terribly difficult. Having two clans with similar composition to hit the button at the same time would suffice the majority of the time. Using the storage values for that is a neat exercise because it probably helps a little, particulary when there are additional clans searching at the same time. But far from it, if you think it's the only way to make it work.

So, answer mine then:

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Do you agree?

If storages are not war weight, or correlate at least with base strength then everything is flawed. Yes, fine.

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No, I think arranging a match is not terribly difficult. Having two clans with similar composition to hit the button at the same time would suffice the majority of the time. Using the storage values for that is a neat exercise because it probably helps a little, particulary when there are additional clans searching at the same time. But far from it, if you think it's the only way to make it work.

So, answer mine then:

If war weight does not correlate perfectly with storages, then the rest of your conclusions may be flawed. Do you agree?

If storages are not war weight, or correlate at least with base strength then everything is flawed. Yes, fine.

YES!!! Argument is OVER

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Here's the central issue relating to the meta question of whether delaying defense matters.

First off, assumptions and data methods:

The game will try it's best to match your clan's curve +/- 10% at all levels. I quit sampling 100%, but on the matches of less than 20 minutes I sample every 5 bases. I figure that's good enough.

I quit sampling at matches lasting past 20 min, however, we get so few of those I would have sample size issues even if we did have longer match times.

20 minute is supercells own patch notes about their matchmaking. I have no reason to think they are lying here.

For TH9

TH9 war weight is an extremely narrow window. In my scale it's less than 2000. Why does this matter? Well, the tiniest little thing you do can swing you to the top of the heap quickly.

Why is this bad? Well, for one thing coming in from th8 at roughly 13500, placing queen gets you 15000 right away, then it's only 10 upgrades to 17500.

17500 gives you a range of ~19000 to 16000. 19000 is baby th10. 16000 is baby th9.

Lets say you punt the heavy defense and get to the 16000 range (setting aside mortars, L2/3 xbow) and keep walls skull for now. That gives you a range of ~18000 to ~14000 that could be a max th9, yes, but it could also be a very rushed TH9. And a low inferno 9 is NOT drawing a real TH10. Period. Not at least on a 20 minute search.

TH10

TH10 doesn't have this issue. Most people when they hit TH10 set the infernos, set the xbows and max them, quickly. That skyrockets them into their own tier where they will just simply draw bases with max infernos and xbows. That separation is so wide that a max TH9 simply can't draw a max th10. There's roughly a 6000 weight jump in doing this. There's just simply no point in not maxing infernos once you build them. As you can see from the plots the "no mans land" is wide. Odds are you end up there you'll just pull a max base anyways.

It comes down to this in a nutshell

For TH9 do you really think the 50DPS increase from two xbow level is worth the risk you draw a baby TH10? Can your clan handle the baby th10? If so, then fine.

For TH10 it's not nearly as big a deal. There is no TH11 (yet) so there's not some sort of base that exists out there that you don't have troops to handle for at least 2 stars. 2 stars is usually more than enough to win wars in the TH10 range. Not so in TH9.

The worst place to be imo is a max th9 with big defenses and crappy heroes. < 15/15. This means nearly certainly you can't handle a decent th9 base and you are now drawing at least a strong th9 that someone else has to deal with. If you find yourself at max th9 with low heroes by all means hit that th10 button. Yesterday. If you intend to max heroes at th9 then stay awhile.

A little learning is a dangerous thing;

drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:

there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,

and drinking largely sobers us again.

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Time to move on fellas.

Th9.5 in fbgs

Culdeus - convo won't change his mind

Channing - not on the boards

War - not sure his intentions

Zub - casual, has a name here but doesn't frequent often, if ever.

Th8.5 in fbgs

Jordan - he wanted to get camp space to 240 then was going to build xbows. Just completed 240

Yank - Thought I saw him mention he was going to start building xbows

Speedwad - casual

PB - casual.

Unless the other fbg clans have a bunch of x.5 and I'm guessing they don't by convos of the past, just let it go.

Satre - The only one listening to culdeus is culdeus, you're wasting your time. A lot of fbg members have been trying to get him to build infernos for weeks.

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Time to move on fellas.

Th9.5 in fbgs

Culdeus - convo won't change his mind

Channing - not on the boards

War - not sure his intentions

Zub - casual, has a name here but doesn't frequent often, if ever.

Th8.5 in fbgs

Jordan - he wanted to get camp space to 240 then was going to build xbows. Just completed 240

Yank - Thought I saw him mention he was going to start building xbows

Speedwad - casual

PB - casual.

Unless the other fbg clans have a bunch of x.5 and I'm guessing they don't by convos of the past, just let it go.

Satre - The only one listening to culdeus is culdeus, you're wasting your time. A lot of fbg members have been trying to get him to build infernos for weeks.

:thumbup:

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Yeah, this is not really an issue for fbgs anymore. We are majority TH10 now. And our heroes are starting to trend towards the beefy range. We are staring at maybe 10 Level 30 queens shortly? Probably have 3 max queens inside of a month, maybe more.

A clan with early th9 it's a different story. You can get just curbstomped under the current system. There's just no practical way to give us an overmatch except in regards to heroes, and we are about to be immune to that too.

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It's still relevant for Honda, which is probably why Myk's post the other day had me start down this road again. Regardless, I'm content that we found a good spot to agree to disagree.

Well yeah, the worst place to be is having TH8s turning into early TH9s. We got really lucky that most of our people hit this phase when you could just pent hound people with a screen lick for 3 stars and heroes didn't even matter. (hell, you didn't even need them really). We struggled for a bit when they nerfed that, but we had enough runway to get our feet under us and sort of plan around it.

It's a really bad place for early th9 these days. In a practical sense it's perhaps 4 to 5 months before they can contribute in a meaningful way (realistically 6-8). And this while half the time fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

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On a different note, the snipes on me lately have been coming from high above in an overwhelming fashion. My last 14 defenses, only three took more than one trophy:

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-6

-8

-1

-2

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

I've been slowly climbing (unintentionally) above 3300 trophies. Are the other guys in champs seeing the same thing?

26 of my 35 available defenses have been for -1, most from guys with 4000+. Ive been sitting between 3400-3600 trophies during that time.

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The worst place to be imo is a max th9 with big defenses and crappy heroes. < 15/15. This means nearly certainly you can't handle a decent th9 base and you are now drawing at least a strong th9 that someone else has to deal with. If you find yourself at max th9 with low heroes by all means hit that th10 button. Yesterday. If you intend to max heroes at th9 then stay awhile.

How does moving to TH10 solve the issue of drawing a tougher opponent than you can handle?

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Yeah, this is not really an issue for fbgs anymore. We are majority TH10 now. And our heroes are starting to trend towards the beefy range. We are staring at maybe 10 Level 30 queens shortly? Probably have 3 max queens inside of a month, maybe more.

A clan with early th9 it's a different story. You can get just curbstomped under the current system. There's just no practical way to give us an overmatch except in regards to heroes, and we are about to be immune to that too.

Quattro was almost all early TH9 when I left and we'd draw mostly max TH9s even with 2-3 of ours without xbows.

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The worst place to be imo is a max th9 with big defenses and crappy heroes. < 15/15. This means nearly certainly you can't handle a decent th9 base and you are now drawing at least a strong th9 that someone else has to deal with. If you find yourself at max th9 with low heroes by all means hit that th10 button. Yesterday. If you intend to max heroes at th9 then stay awhile.

How does moving to TH10 solve the issue of drawing a tougher opponent than you can handle?

Because you can simply bully th9 with th10 troops and the game is agnostic to this development except for a tiny weight bump (250) for the th which is less than half a single xbow level.

That's how stupid this system is.

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