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Totally agree. If you're not playing the game all the time, you're going to get rolled a ton if your defenses aren't upgraded enough and you'll never generate enough resources to make the massive upgr

This thread is 482 pages and at least 300 of those are us collectively trying to figure out what the hell Culdeus is talking about.

Going to put together a whole album of CoC songs First cut "You Had A Bad Raid"

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It's definitely how fast the hounds come out and then the timing/placement of spells. Here's an idea, let somebody else post what they think the problem is without shooting it down in 5 seconds. We have a few fundamentals we need to clean up on lavaloons,and this is an attempt at fixing 1. Spell usage is a huge issue.

Also, enough with the Dragon excuse, as SMN and cliff said, drag it to corner out of range of defenses and dragons are the best possible thing you can see in a cc if u are lavalooning.

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It's super ballsy to plow in at any base after burning off 40s and not kill the queen.

We watched two people suck and kill the drag and wind up with 99% ers.

I still think the opens are mainly the issue. Get a decent open and a laloon vs a crap th9 base is just overpowering.

If spells are the issue then hogs are a solution. Spell placement for hogs is pretty user friendly.

Two people got 99% we better not try to improve that strategy. Clearly it has no chance of working.

I don't know how you could get any more spell friendly than loons. Hound loon spell or loon hound spell everytime in succession. We just go hound hound loon loon loon loon loon everything dead then spell.

It's a simple solution imo.

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I'm starting to see a trend develop in both pb and oh where their war attacks use a blend of hogs and loons again with one golem. One thing we are definitely doing poorly is using the jump spell the way god intended.

Also pb posted a long string of walks with heroes ranging from 15-25.

I'm going to just push king for a bit now that aq hit magic level 33. Will use the bk stand in for cc making me basically a th9 again.

Planning on 100% walks with air raids and no hounds. It's time to move forward a bit.

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Max drag takes 10.5 attacks from L5 Wiz to die. Dropping a golem then 6 Wiz will have the drag dead without losing a single Wiz and the golem only taking two hits from the drag. Total cost to kill CC should be able 7-10 spots plus a poison (hog or fur and a few archers) assuming the CC is easy to pop.

Edited by Cliff Clavin
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Max drag takes 10.5 attacks from L5 Wiz to die. Dropping a golem then 6 Wiz will have the drag dead without losing a single Wiz and the golem only taking two hits from the drag. Total cost to kill CC should be able 7-10 spots plus a poison (hog or fur and a few archers) assuming the CC is easy to pop.

The main issue with a suck and wiz kill. Is once done with the kill they all clump up and don't provide a funnel, in fact, often times they provide an anti funnel. (For lack of a better term)

It can be expensive for what you get. The super tight bases this is more effective. The spread bases not as much.

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It's clear I need a clan with fewer wars. Love Honda but I'm a liability now. Cannot keep up with the back to back wars.

Opt out of some of them. :confused:

Yea never quite understand leaving a clan because it wars too often. Need a break for a week or two, opt out. Don't think anyone in Honda gets bothered by it. There is plenty of liability in the clan right now myself included. All the new TH9's we have are taking it right now, I keep saying it but no one seems to hear, TH9 is a ####### grind until you get through the massive elixir needs at the start. Not days or weeks, months.

Mentioned in clan chat, it was the only time I seriously thought about walking away from the game. I was lucky and it hit right during the great Christmas Boost of '14 so that helped a ton but even so, I put in 4 hours a day with boosted barracks grinding out elixir to catch up.

Edited by beer 30
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Wouldn't the cost be 37-40? You're not really going to carry a Golem for a hog attack otherwise.

(I'm assuming you're talking to me Cliff since your original Golem/Wiz reply was responding to my suggestion. If you're talking about TH9/10 stuff ignore that.)

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Wouldn't the cost be 37-40? You're not really going to carry a Golem for a hog attack otherwise.(I'm assuming you're talking to me Cliff since your original Golem/Wiz reply was responding to my suggestion. If you're talking about TH9/10 stuff ignore that.)

Works for all levels. At TH9 you almost always go in for the AQ so you need a golem and at TH8 I've been packing one as well (see build earlier).

For TH8: The cost isn't that much as you're putting those troops to use after. If you use 7-8 to kill a drag and don't have any protection for them after that, then yes, it is costing 30+ troops. That is the reason I started using a minigowipe at TH8. Instead of burning your CC with a KS just for them to die right after, incorporate them into your attack. Instead of having 7-8 wiz for cleanup, use them to take out some D. Use your BK to wreck some D instead of just having him cleanup.

Most people waste CC, BK and lots of wiz when hogging at TH8. Take a few less hogs, add a golem and some WBs and put those troops to use.

I'll take a quick look through this Honda war and point out some examples.

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Max drag takes 10.5 attacks from L5 Wiz to die. Dropping a golem then 6 Wiz will have the drag dead without losing a single Wiz and the golem only taking two hits from the drag. Total cost to kill CC should be able 7-10 spots plus a poison (hog or fur and a few archers) assuming the CC is easy to pop.

The main issue with a suck and wiz kill. Is once done with the kill they all clump up and don't provide a funnel, in fact, often times they provide an anti funnel. (For lack of a better term)

It can be expensive for what you get. The super tight bases this is more effective. The spread bases not as much.

Yes, it is base dependent as with everything in this game. If it's a tough lure or no anchors or too much #### in the way, etc.

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Max drag takes 10.5 attacks from L5 Wiz to die. Dropping a golem then 6 Wiz will have the drag dead without losing a single Wiz and the golem only taking two hits from the drag. Total cost to kill CC should be able 7-10 spots plus a poison (hog or fur and a few archers) assuming the CC is easy to pop.

The main issue with a suck and wiz kill. Is once done with the kill they all clump up and don't provide a funnel, in fact, often times they provide an anti funnel. (For lack of a better term)

It can be expensive for what you get. The super tight bases this is more effective. The spread bases not as much.

Yes, it is base dependent as with everything in this game. If it's a tough lure or no anchors or too much #### in the way, etc.

Maybe I'll make a video. There was something subtle in your raid. Wbs out before heroes. The king get set down without the walls busted he was gone. It was a little risky because the golem went to a spot where wbs weren't gonna get hit. Hard to explain without seeing it.

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WDCOROB on 15: Your CC drag, 8 Wiz and BK combined to take out 1 Cannon. That is 57 spots and a hero used for essentially nothing.

On 16: your CC, 6 Wiz and BK combined to take out 2 D. Yes, the CC cleared a DBB spot which is helpful but that is 49 spots and a hero for very little.

Both those bases had crap CCs so you could just poison them. In those cases, id likely take 38+5 CC hogs and just massacre the poor bastard (you didn't know so that wasn't an option).

Golem, Pekka, Wiz and WBs is around 85 spots and it will get you a clean CC kill, a DBB spot, likely 6+ D, draw fire for your hogs and likely leave you lots for cleanup if all goes correctly.

I struggle getting the Pekka to funnel sometimes but learning that will be a big help once you hit TH9.

Edited by Cliff Clavin
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Let's get back to something useful in this thread. Not a secret that some of the fbg members can lavaloon while others struggle. Pulled some videos that imo showcase the biggest issue....spell usage. Some of them are just plain bad but hopefully you can see the difference here and apply it.

First video, four attacks against the same base. Yoga ended up 3 starring it at the last minute with about a minute of planning so it's not the greatest attack but got the job done due to troop/spell usage. The other three were probably dead in the water after their entries failed but we're just focusing on the loon aspect here. Notice the tardiness of the spells and how it killed the hounds (also dropping the hounds first on such a spread out base). Hounds were dead before loons even hit spells or killed defense. Yoga had loons coming up on the d as the AA took its first shot.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_r0hVlDIZmI

Second video. Three successful attacks by the twins (we have the same style so just grabbed them, others do this just as well) and then three fails. Watching this, I could have improved some spells myself but they weren't terrible so it gave me a chance. Notice how for the most part we drop a section of loons/hounds/spell then move to the next section and repeat. Now watch the next three attacks and see the difference. Darth drops his whole army before a spell comes out. If he just drops a spell in each section that base gets pummeled.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtETnoJC9c

Not trying to single anyone out here this is just something that a lot of fbgs do and it's an easy fix really if you are aware of it imo.

There's certainly other things we could improve on but if we get better with keeping our hounds alive by getting the loons to the AA some three stars will get put up by more individuals.

Hope this helps for some Honda folks as well. I'll grab more as we go if you guys think this will help.

This is "PSA" kind of stuff. Great share.

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Inebriated and just thinking to myself. They have all sorts of secret formulas to determine war matchup that even our finest argue. World and U.S. Rankings is on ####### trophies. It would be sweet if they spent time on a CoC BCS.

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Alright folks since our fearless leader threw in the towel 30 seconds in the match yours truly is running the show.

Not much is changing but I'm not cherry picking everyone's base. Find one you like in your range and hit it. Bottom up here as follows.

Four th8s. PB will get two and not worried about the others. You guys will get it done.

Bases 31-36 will have a lot of guys going after these. Above this is pretty much maxed th9 so leaving that to th10.

Craig

Lomax

Cliff

Indestructible

Rcp

Hhh

G1210

Scottish

Odin

Johnathan

Big red

Yank.

Don't venture above base 31 unless those are all 3 starred. Were not winning this war if we dont 3 star these bases. Ideally u hit early but I realize that's not likely. If these get three starred u can snipe high or gowipe for two in high th9 land.

Base 21-30

Smn

Culd

Tam

Shammy

Scott

Instinctive

Jordan

14 attacks for 10 bases. Hopefully we get 9 of 10 3 starred.

Base 20-16

Zub

Channing

Acer? Cool with going ground for 2?

Sml

Wars tenner

Going for 2 here. This allows five "fails" so get it done.

Base 15-11

Cjay

Fudd

Harry

Az

Then I have doc, jason, smack, va hitting top 10 if their queens are up. This will also be sniping area. I put speedwad down for 2 of them on tools.

Also have czar hitting the weak th10 early and hopefully darth go wiping strong th9 early if we can get contact with him.

Ideally we work our way up here with low guys shooting early and it let's people get pushed up into groups higher.

Confused? Ask cuz I ain't proofreading this crap on my phone.

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Alright folks since our fearless leader threw in the towel 30 seconds in the match yours truly is running the show.

Not much is changing but I'm not cherry picking everyone's base. Find one you like in your range and hit it. Bottom up here as follows.

Four th8s. PB will get two and not worried about the others. You guys will get it done.

Bases 31-36 will have a lot of guys going after these. Above this is pretty much maxed th9 so leaving that to th10.

Craig

Lomax

Cliff

Indestructible

Rcp

Hhh

G1210

Scottish

Odin

Johnathan

Big red

Yank.

Don't venture above base 31 unless those are all 3 starred. Were not winning this war if we dont 3 star these bases. Ideally u hit early but I realize that's not likely. If these get three starred u can snipe high or gowipe for two in high th9 land.

Base 21-30

Smn

Culd

Tam

Shammy

Scott

Instinctive

Jordan

14 attacks for 10 bases. Hopefully we get 9 of 10 3 starred.

Base 20-16

Zub

Channing

Acer? Cool with going ground for 2?

Sml

Wars tenner

Going for 2 here. This allows five "fails" so get it done.

Base 15-11

Cjay

Fudd

Harry

Az

Then I have doc, jason, smack, va hitting top 10 if their queens are up. This will also be sniping area. I put speedwad down for 2 of them on tools.

Also have czar hitting the weak th10 early and hopefully darth go wiping strong th9 early if we can get contact with him.

Ideally we work our way up here with low guys shooting early and it let's people get pushed up into groups higher.

Confused? Ask cuz I ain't proofreading this crap on my phone.

All clear boss

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using tools to call within our range?

Yes sir. You and Scott been hitting th10 lately so if you just want to call one then wait and see if we clean up so second can be on a th10 that's cool with me.

I can wait if needed, but this is the first war in a while I have both heroes for a good GoLaLoon.

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using tools to call within our range?

Yes sir. You and Scott been hitting th10 lately so if you just want to call one then wait and see if we clean up so second can be on a th10 that's cool with me.

I can wait if needed, but this is the first war in a while I have both heroes for a good GoLaLoon.

We won't be perfect so we'll need at least one attack on a th9. Pick your huckleberry and bury it.

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Capturing some of the chat from Friday night after the Korea loss.....have we ever considered trying to beat these stronger organized clans at their own game? All the clans we struggle against are pure gowoppy clans from top to bottom and settle for 2 stars on every base. They have no 3 star attack plans and when they do it's massive fail. The 3 star approach is our strong suit. Problem is for our TH9s including myself it's a low success rate and end up with >75% being a 0 or 1 star with them. But what if we emulated the enemy and have our TH9's and TH10's throw a gowoppy for only their first attack on their +0, +5, etc TH9's and TH10's for easy 2 stars. We then use our 3 star attack strategies on our 2nd attacks. So we try matching them star for star on first attacks and beat them on second attacks since they have no 3 star attack strategy. Seems like it'd be less stress for the TH10's trying to cover for all the max TH9 bases, 1 or 2 starred TH9 bases by the TH9's, and their TH10's. Added benefit for 2nd attack 3 star strategies of knowing the cc content from 1st attack gowoppy. Just seems like we're not getting value out of our TH9's in these serious war and putting heavy pressure on TH10's to cover too much. Maybe the above makes our TH9's more useful again and in turn puts less burden on the TH10's. And in the less serious, real wars (like our pink wall friends) we can revert back to using only 3 star attack strategies.

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Capturing some of the chat from Friday night after the Korea loss.....have we ever considered trying to beat these stronger organized clans at their own game? All the clans we struggle against are pure gowoppy clans from top to bottom and settle for 2 stars on every base. They have no 3 star attack plans and when they do it's massive fail. The 3 star approach is our strong suit. Problem is for our TH9s including myself it's a low success rate and end up with >75% being a 0 or 1 star with them. But what if we emulated the enemy and have our TH9's and TH10's throw a gowoppy for only their first attack on their +0, +5, etc TH9's and TH10's for easy 2 stars. We then use our 3 star attack strategies on our 2nd attacks. So we try matching them star for star on first attacks and beat them on second attacks since they have no 3 star attack strategy. Seems like it'd be less stress for the TH10's trying to cover for all the max TH9 bases, 1 or 2 starred TH9 bases by the TH9's, and their TH10's. Added benefit for 2nd attack 3 star strategies of knowing the cc content from 1st attack gowoppy. Just seems like we're not getting value out of our TH9's in these serious war and putting heavy pressure on TH10's to cover too much. Maybe the above makes our TH9's more useful again and in turn puts less burden on the TH10's. And in the less serious, real wars (like our pink wall friends) we can revert back to using only 3 star attack strategies.

We had this discussion long back and I was trying to push what you are saying. I still like that idea as going for 3 on a scouted base is a good amount easier than on Un scouted. And when we face clans with good bases we struggle even more.

The gowoppy 2 would allow us to pick and choose which to hit for 3.

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Capturing some of the chat from Friday night after the Korea loss.....have we ever considered trying to beat these stronger organized clans at their own game? All the clans we struggle against are pure gowoppy clans from top to bottom and settle for 2 stars on every base. They have no 3 star attack plans and when they do it's massive fail. The 3 star approach is our strong suit. Problem is for our TH9s including myself it's a low success rate and end up with >75% being a 0 or 1 star with them. But what if we emulated the enemy and have our TH9's and TH10's throw a gowoppy for only their first attack on their +0, +5, etc TH9's and TH10's for easy 2 stars. We then use our 3 star attack strategies on our 2nd attacks. So we try matching them star for star on first attacks and beat them on second attacks since they have no 3 star attack strategy. Seems like it'd be less stress for the TH10's trying to cover for all the max TH9 bases, 1 or 2 starred TH9 bases by the TH9's, and their TH10's. Added benefit for 2nd attack 3 star strategies of knowing the cc content from 1st attack gowoppy. Just seems like we're not getting value out of our TH9's in these serious war and putting heavy pressure on TH10's to cover too much. Maybe the above makes our TH9's more useful again and in turn puts less burden on the TH10's. And in the less serious, real wars (like our pink wall friends) we can revert back to using only 3 star attack strategies.

We had this discussion long back and I was trying to push what you are saying. I still like that idea as going for 3 on a scouted base is a good amount easier than on Un scouted. And when we face clans with good bases we struggle even more.

The gowoppy 2 would allow us to pick and choose which to hit for 3.

:goodposting:

I see zero downside in this approach.

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Or instead of the 12 guys we have hitting 5 bases, that is the 2* star crew for the TH9s, then the other 7 guys come in after for 3*.

That would be the idea if those 10 can get the 5 bases taken care of early.

Downside of having everyone go for 2 would be that gives us less attacks from people than can consistently 3 a base. Would I want cliff grounding a base for 2? Absolutely not.

How can we organize the ground people to shoot early? Wish we could but don't see it coming fruition.

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more discussion of how to not only 2 but 3 clover with weaker heroes.

Attacking the aq is key

Yeah I think people still grossly underestimate the power of defensive queens that are allowed to just sit back and snipe you. The aggro thing doesn't just hurt air raids.

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Or instead of the 12 guys we have hitting 5 bases, that is the 2* star crew for the TH9s, then the other 7 guys come in after for 3*.

That would be the idea if those 10 can get the 5 bases taken care of early.

Downside of having everyone go for 2 would be that gives us less attacks from people than can consistently 3 a base. Would I want cliff grounding a base for 2? Absolutely not.

How can we organize the ground people to shoot early? Wish we could but don't see it coming fruition.

Cliff without an AQ is likely better served getting 2 somewhere unless there is a base with an easy AQ... But if that is the case, then it should be left for Shuke/Yoga.

I agree that it would take everyone buying in to go early and life usually gets in the way.

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Or instead of the 12 guys we have hitting 5 bases, that is the 2* star crew for the TH9s, then the other 7 guys come in after for 3*.

That would be the idea if those 10 can get the 5 bases taken care of early.

Downside of having everyone go for 2 would be that gives us less attacks from people than can consistently 3 a base. Would I want cliff grounding a base for 2? Absolutely not.

How can we organize the ground people to shoot early? Wish we could but don't see it coming fruition.

I don't see a downside in having our people that have one hero and have no plans or timeline to get 2 heroes up during a war attack twice, and quickly. It's easier said than done to manage that.

I mean we also have some people that just don't have 3 star skills. It's a difficult meta question whether you hit a base that I would normally get 3 on which would then allow me to shoot at a crappy TH10 for 3, or do we just push forward as normal. A lot of this depends on how many "misses" we stand to have from our TH10 and how many max TH9s there are, there's not a one size fits all solution.

This war we have

19 good TH10 bases

1 #### TH10 base

9 good TH9 bases

7 #### TH9 bases

4 TH8

By my math we have approximately 6 "fails" in the TH10 range before we have to alter our plans. Odds are we have 3 people missing a hero already. So that puts us right on the edge to start. Now we only have 11 bases that our TH9 can reasonably be expected to 3 star. So there likely will be 8 or so surplus TH9 attacks. Are those better as snipes on TH10 or 2 star on TH9? Who knows.

I know this I'd much rather take a role on the micro-meta than macro-meta. I don't really enjoy the macro level stuff, but took it on because Greg left. We did alot better when I managed the micro end.

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I'd have to check back through the logs but I'm guessing we rarely lose the TH9 battle. It's the 10s we're losing. Should try and keep as many 10 vs 10 attacks as possible. We'd be better off Goxxxx the top TH9s for 2* and having Culdeus crew getting 2* on the 10s instead of them swinging for 3 on the 9s and leaving 10s with 0.

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I'd have to check back through the logs but I'm guessing we rarely lose the TH9 battle. It's the 10s we're losing. Should try and keep as many 10 vs 10 attacks as possible. We'd be better off Goxxxx the top TH9s for 2* and having Culdeus crew getting 2* on the 10s instead of them swinging for 3 on the 9s and leaving 10s with 0.

I think that makes a lot of sense too

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I think the people that are serious about farming heroes need to stay with 3 star strats. If not serious about farming 2* strats are fine. We need those. But you will always get better if you stay current on 3* approaches and farm heroes. There's not much debatable in that.

The stronger we get the less we can even settle for 2 on th10. We can't be spamming the low 4-5 th10 with weak th10s. Eventually we have to be looking for 3s there.

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This might have been said before, but your TH9s need to use 2-star strategies against TH10s. That allows TH10s to bully the TH9s for 3-stars.

Easier said than done. Most of the bases we get are pretty maxed out. Best case is a max th9 with max infernos. Maybe one or two bases a war with weaker stuff.

It's a lot to ask for a sub 20/20 th9. It's a lot to ask for a sub 20/20 th10 too.

Edited by culdeus
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We're at the point with maxed out bases where our top end TH10s have trouble putting 2 on other top TH10s. TH9s doing so are generally out of the question unless opponents have boneheaded base designs.

Mainly at the level we are at if the base is ####ty enough for a TH9 to get 2 on we should have a TH10 get 3 on it.

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I think the people that are serious about farming heroes need to stay with 3 star strats. If not serious about farming 2* strats are fine. We need those. But you will always get better if you stay current on 3* approaches and farm heroes. There's not much debatable in that.

The stronger we get the less we can even settle for 2 on th10. We can't be spamming the low 4-5 th10 with weak th10s. Eventually we have to be looking for 3s there.

I dont think anyone is saying to stop working on 3* strats. The issue is that running 3* ideas 100% of the time leads to a lot more fails then we should have. If the base in question is pretty tricky then a gowoppy to start isn't terrible. Then we can evaluate later if we need 3 there.

This would be instead of throwing 4 attacks aiming for 3 and all just end up with 1*.

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We're at the point with maxed out bases where our top end TH10s have trouble putting 2 on other top TH10s. TH9s doing so are generally out of the question unless opponents have boneheaded base designs.

Mainly at the level we are at if the base is ####ty enough for a TH9 to get 2 on we should have a TH10 get 3 on it.

Completely disagree. It's much easier for a TH9 to get two when going for two than a TH10 to get three.

How often do you send TH9s to get a 3-star against a TH10?

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