Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
TH10 should be hitting TH10 till they are all 2* then dropping down for 3*.
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Clash of Clans (Official thread) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GregR
- Start date
Take_The_Shot
Footballguy
I thought we what just did was pretty good, we could have pushed to 90 if they weren't killing us. But we just happened to face one of the top 3 clans we have seen in months and therefore, for some odd reason we treat it as the norm instead of an outlier and overreact.
Take_The_Shot
Footballguy
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. The way it is now, we have a crew who can easily clean the max th9s with 3s. And we have a crew who is firing at th10s in hope of 2, and worst case 1......so therefore
3* TH9 + 2TH10 = 5
3* TH9 + 1*TH10 = 4 (worst case)
What you are saying the max potential would be
2*TH9 + 2* TH10 = 4
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
9/21 th10 on th10 getting two stars before we called it. At that rate that's all our th10 attacks to get all the th10 2 starred. Let alone the fact we'd be hitting the top 5 bases as well so that rate ain't going up.
Who's three starring the th9 again? 24 attacks allocated to non max th9 last war and we couldn't get all 6 of em three starred.
We're topping out at 80 with that plan imo but let's give it a go and try it and maybe we'll surprise me.
Who's three starring the th9 again? 24 attacks allocated to non max th9 last war and we couldn't get all 6 of em three starred.
We're topping out at 80 with that plan imo but let's give it a go and try it and maybe we'll surprise me.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
Take_The_Shot
Footballguy
You probably are right with mine being 3* as worst case. But that would also mean your worst case would be 2*. However you slice it, its behind 1 star.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
And I don't want to sound like I'm saying that your way wouldn't work eventually, but its the reality our specific situation right now.
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Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
Arguing is fun indeed. Show me how we two star all the th10 and have th10 attacks left with our history.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
Then you take 10 th9 attacks to 2* the max th9. Probably be a few fails but just ignore that. Then another 7 or so to 2* the bottom th9.
We're looking at 20 attacks from th9 to go get 3 stars. How many we going to get? 5?
I'm serious I'd be down to try it though if others want to.
MindCrime
Footballguy
FYI- not that the outcome would change, but I was built to attack late on 6, just for practice. We had 2 th10 attacks that base, both flubbed a jump. (It happens, trust me). But in the end, trying to take some coaching, I missed the final buzzer by a few seconds. Sorry for the missed attack.
freeannyong
Footballguy
The major issue is we aren't beating any competent clan anymore unless we start 2 staring all of the th10s. We have the firepower for it. VA got 2 on a full max base with no king. It is possible, just have to execute. There simply aren't enough TH9s anymore to make up the differenceArguing is fun indeed. Show me how we two star all the th10 and have th10 attacks left with our history.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
Then you take 10 th9 attacks to 2* the max th9. Probably be a few fails but just ignore that. Then another 7 or so to 2* the bottom th9.
We're looking at 20 attacks from th9 to go get 3 stars. How many we going to get? 5?
I'm serious I'd be down to try it though if others want to.
Best way I can think is stop farming with air and start farming like doc. Only way to get better is to keep running the same attack over and over.
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I dunno how many we'd 3* at TH9 but I'm pretty darn sure we'd get them all 2* which goes back to my point of a TH10 adding 1* when dropping down. This war doesn't look like many 3* as damn near all of them are near Max and have good bases.Arguing is fun indeed. Show me how we two star all the th10 and have th10 attacks left with our history.Then you take 10 th9 attacks to 2* the max th9. Probably be a few fails but just ignore that. Then another 7 or so to 2* the bottom th9.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
We're looking at 20 attacks from th9 to go get 3 stars. How many we going to get? 5?
I'm serious I'd be down to try it though if others want to.
Maybe the crew that is dropping down is better at getting 2* on 10s and can improve that ratio giving us more 10 vs 9 attacks.
It'll be different every war. This coming looks tough so it has probably already been called.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
Gave doc free reign last war. Had both heroes up and where did he decide to hit second? Base 15. That's no shot at doc, that's a shot at the people that think the th10 are all easy 2s. They aren't.The major issue is we aren't beating any competent clan anymore unless we start 2 staring all of the th10s. We have the firepower for it. VA got 2 on a full max base with no king. It is possible, just have to execute. There simply aren't enough TH9s anymore to make up the differenceArguing is fun indeed. Show me how we two star all the th10 and have th10 attacks left with our history.Then you take 10 th9 attacks to 2* the max th9. Probably be a few fails but just ignore that. Then another 7 or so to 2* the bottom th9.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
We're looking at 20 attacks from th9 to go get 3 stars. How many we going to get? 5?
I'm serious I'd be down to try it though if others want to.
Best way I can think is stop farming with air and start farming like doc. Only way to get better is to keep running the same attack over and over.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Hope I'm not implying that it is easy to 2* a 10. I'm trying to say we need more attempts at them because it is very difficult.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
I get that.
We've been taking roughly 10 th10 attacks and putting them on th9 for the last what? Month, two? Then we end up with about 8 or so th10 bases that aren't two starred.
So those 10 attacks that hit th9 are now hitting th10 and somehow going to go 8/10?
OK say that crew is better at getting two and we have zub left to 3 star a th9. Odds?
Obviously no point in really arguing until we see it in action so up to culdeus.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Forums were made for arguing dammit.
I just see it as 3* 2 TH9 = 2* 1 TH10. Is that crew going to have better odds at 3* 2 TH9 100% or getting 2* on a TH10 50% of the time?
culdeus
Footballguy
freeannyong
Footballguy
Reddit troopers also use Xmod, so lets throw that sample out
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Clan we are facing this war looks better than the last clan we lost to.
Something needs to change - maybe go back to 50?
Now I know why there is s much #####ing about match making on the SC boards.
Something needs to change - maybe go back to 50?
Now I know why there is s much #####ing about match making on the SC boards.
John Bender
Footballguy
Our pets' heads are falling off!
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
That was mainly because I was going for 3. My BK just wasn't up to the task.As far as 2 starring TH10 (mainly of the Max variety), it's not necessarily easy, but it's also not terribly hard.Gave doc free reign last war. Had both heroes up and where did he decide to hit second? Base 15. That's no shot at doc, that's a shot at the people that think the th10 are all easy 2s. They aren't.The major issue is we aren't beating any competent clan anymore unless we start 2 staring all of the th10s. We have the firepower for it. VA got 2 on a full max base with no king. It is possible, just have to execute. There simply aren't enough TH9s anymore to make up the differenceArguing is fun indeed. Show me how we two star all the th10 and have th10 attacks left with our history.Then you take 10 th9 attacks to 2* the max th9. Probably be a few fails but just ignore that. Then another 7 or so to 2* the bottom th9.Your worst case should be 3*, like we saw in this war (which I doubt we had a chance at anyway but arguing is fun).
Guys dropping down are adding 1* as I don't think there is any issue with all the TH9s getting 2*. They could be playing for 2* on open TH10s.
All im saying is get the TH10s done first before dropping down
I was one of the incompetent TH9s this war. It happens and will happen pretty frequently down a hero.
We're looking at 20 attacks from th9 to go get 3 stars. How many we going to get? 5?
I'm serious I'd be down to try it though if others want to.
Best way I can think is stop farming with air and start farming like doc. Only way to get better is to keep running the same attack over and over.
Heroes are a huge factor here. Personally I think we are wasting any level 30+ queen on a th9. Gross misuse of power.
Then we come to the actual attack, I still see grouped up attacks that either fail or get 1. Culd posted some great vids of attacks on clovers. The same premise applies to most bases. Spreading out an attack splits the enemies defensive firepower. Spreading wiz means they don't all get killed by a giant bomb or mortar. This isn't a new concept though, it's a 3 point attack that has been around for months. (And it takes a while to master). Spreading also creates a natural funnel.
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Take_The_Shot
Footballguy
The biggest flaw this clan makes and continues to make is not knowing the make and skill set that makes up our clan. 2* every th10 sounds great, but if we do that then the ability to 3* max th9 is gone. We then get a handful of 3* on the bottom bases and end up right around 85.
Hey guess what, that's damn near our average now (zero-sum game with the make up of our clan). IMO the way we have been doing it is flawed, the suggestion to use all th10 on th10 until 2* is flawed. We aren't a one-size fits all clan.
All the time wasted on other things could be used to understand FBGS, and what role each person has, then maybe we can push our average up.
Hey guess what, that's damn near our average now (zero-sum game with the make up of our clan). IMO the way we have been doing it is flawed, the suggestion to use all th10 on th10 until 2* is flawed. We aren't a one-size fits all clan.
All the time wasted on other things could be used to understand FBGS, and what role each person has, then maybe we can push our average up.
culdeus
Footballguy
That's for making my point. Even modders have to use bully attacks. Some TH9 are too strong even for modded clans.
How did these attempts work for this war?Sounds like you have these options:Not sure there's any need to explain anything. Of course it's better if a th9 can get two on a th10.It's not that simple.We're over thinking this. 2* your equal then either go for 3* after that or 2* someones fail if you don't think you can get 3* somewhere else. Pretty simple
It's hard to 3-star your equal, but it's relatively easy to 2-star above your level. My max TH9 regularly would 2-star TH10s - even got a max one once. If you plan for the 2-star, it can be easy. If your TH9s have Level 15 (or so) heroes, Level 4 golems - use five of them, and Level 3 PEKKA, they should be able to get any low- to mid-level TH10 for a 2-star.
Having your TH9s go high allows your TH10s to go lower - twice - and get sure 3-star results.
If any of the th9 in FBGS had that ability it would be great and an asset. So far none have really tried or shown it.
1. Try the strategy.
Then you'll know. I didn't know I could 2-star TH10s until I started doing it.
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
I can usually pick a target in the Top 10 with hopes of 2-3 starring it - keep in mind this is before the actual attack where those hopes are quickly squashed when the attack begins.
This is the first matchup I can remember where I have no idea where to go in the Top 10 - AQ40 from their #1 to #8.
This is the first matchup I can remember where I have no idea where to go in the Top 10 - AQ40 from their #1 to #8.
Yes! A million times, yes!
The elite clans are just a bunch of great attackers. Their leadership takes the time to create a gameplan and assign targets. The collective is willing to follow.
culdeus
Footballguy
Poorly.How did these attempts work for this war?Sounds like you have these options:Not sure there's any need to explain anything. Of course it's better if a th9 can get two on a th10.If any of the th9 in FBGS had that ability it would be great and an asset. So far none have really tried or shown it.It's not that simple.We're over thinking this. 2* your equal then either go for 3* after that or 2* someones fail if you don't think you can get 3* somewhere else. Pretty simple
It's hard to 3-star your equal, but it's relatively easy to 2-star above your level. My max TH9 regularly would 2-star TH10s - even got a max one once. If you plan for the 2-star, it can be easy. If your TH9s have Level 15 (or so) heroes, Level 4 golems - use five of them, and Level 3 PEKKA, they should be able to get any low- to mid-level TH10 for a 2-star.
Having your TH9s go high allows your TH10s to go lower - twice - and get sure 3-star results.
1. Try the strategy.
Then you'll know. I didn't know I could 2-star TH10s until I started doing it.
You can join our clan on tools without being in the clan if interested
Our TH10s need to put 2 on our counterparts. That's just tough to do generally, very tough against an advanced clan when a lot of us are trying to push heroes too.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Maybe we should try an inter-clan scrimmage.
beer 30
Footballguy
Recently I mentioned how the beginning of TH9 is simply The Suck™.
I am now in a period I am dubbing The Doldrums™. It's that period at TH9 where you have maxed defense & offense and are grinding heroes and walls. I live now for DE and DE only. My lab has been idle for weeks as well as my 4 builders. I'm simply drifting on a sea of elixir & gold searching for the occasional island of black sweetness
I am now in a period I am dubbing The Doldrums™. It's that period at TH9 where you have maxed defense & offense and are grinding heroes and walls. I live now for DE and DE only. My lab has been idle for weeks as well as my 4 builders. I'm simply drifting on a sea of elixir & gold searching for the occasional island of black sweetness
culdeus
Footballguy
Just to show how absurd this latest matchup is I did what they do on the SC forums. I used for lack of any better term the "rushed ratio" That is levels of heros divided by inferno+xbow upgrades. 6.66666 
being the ideal ratio to maintain as that is the same ratio as max heroes to max base. Again, messenger here so don't shoot.
First upload is the standard rush ratio that you see sometimes being used to help people understand just how ####ty a matchup is.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneUE5CdHdidjFWRUE/view?usp=sharing
Second is with a very small overlay. I reduced the weight of xbow to the ratio of their war weight and also multiplied AQ level by 1.5x to reflect her relative strength to the BK.
Now, on the second you see one outlier, obviously you know who this is. I sorted the second list 1-n where I didn't on the first run. I did one run with the outlier and one run without. They are side by side in this one, may be hard to read.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrnecGd0dlNwVlNnQTQ/view?usp=sharing
Again, messenger here.
being the ideal ratio to maintain as that is the same ratio as max heroes to max base. Again, messenger here so don't shoot.First upload is the standard rush ratio that you see sometimes being used to help people understand just how ####ty a matchup is.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrneUE5CdHdidjFWRUE/view?usp=sharing
Second is with a very small overlay. I reduced the weight of xbow to the ratio of their war weight and also multiplied AQ level by 1.5x to reflect her relative strength to the BK.
Now, on the second you see one outlier, obviously you know who this is. I sorted the second list 1-n where I didn't on the first run. I did one run with the outlier and one run without. They are side by side in this one, may be hard to read.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEnEbl4YrnecGd0dlNwVlNnQTQ/view?usp=sharing
Again, messenger here.
culdeus
Footballguy
Data analysis for the 3 losses basically shows we don't really matchup with these clans evenly out to our 8th person. In this current war we probably never match up evenly on rush ratio in developed bases.
I am strongly considering anchoring for the next few wars at 50/50 until we can play in this space. Clearly we are out of our league in the 40/40 range.
I am strongly considering anchoring for the next few wars at 50/50 until we can play in this space. Clearly we are out of our league in the 40/40 range.
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freeannyong
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
People were having trouble switching between troops since the update and they released a patch which is meant to address this. They did it without a maintenance break so we don't lose replays or anything and you wouldn't otherwise know unless you follow SC twitter and other people on twitter.wdcrob said:
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I thought that was just me. Had no idea it was a thing.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
It was an optional update though so I had to go store to update manually fyi.
culdeus
Footballguy
orly, on what platform? I didn't see an update on android, but maybe I set it to autoload.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
sartre
Footballguy
Out of curiosity, have you monitored how many sleeping heroes there are on each side? I imagine that could routinely be a heavy disadvantage for FBG.
(Not suggesting that anyone stop upgrading their heroes; just the opposite actually, the best thing about maxing hero is that you always have it.)
culdeus
Footballguy
Not as many as usual people are finishing off dark spells with DE rather than heroes for the moment. We tend to miss 4-5 TH10 heroes and 4-5 TH9 heroes as a general rule, this time probably in that range. Even with all our heroes up this war is beyond hopeless.
They are also running mostly anti-3 star bases in TH9 which is something our TH9 have no experience. I would expect at most 5 TH9 3 stars this war. We probably lose somewhere in the 105-55 range.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
This war we just had was the first time in like 3 months I had both heroes up. I've managed to sleep one or the other as soon as one woke for the entire summer so far. BK to 25 right now, so I'll be at 25/20.
Have to decide this weekend: BK to 30 next, or AQ to 25? I'm thinking BK to 30, because AQ 20 is helpful for my DE farming. Then when the BK is stronger, he'll be more helpful for DE farming also. I know I'd rather have the AQ maxed first in an ideal world, but given that I'm gonna max them both eventually I think I want to take the path of least resistance.
Have to decide this weekend: BK to 30 next, or AQ to 25? I'm thinking BK to 30, because AQ 20 is helpful for my DE farming. Then when the BK is stronger, he'll be more helpful for DE farming also. I know I'd rather have the AQ maxed first in an ideal world, but given that I'm gonna max them both eventually I think I want to take the path of least resistance.
freeannyong
Footballguy
Going to 50 is just a bandaid. Soon we will be at a point where we can't hide at 50 either. Not sure when we hit that point but it will come.
culdeus
Footballguy
Keep building infernos and we will get there.
I think with 4 or 5 anchors we can compete at 50. And besides half the clans at 50 are farmers anyways.
freeannyong
Footballguy
And that's another issue with 50. Can't get better against farmers.
culdeus
Footballguy
AQ Walk Glossary Of Terms
There's a ton of confusion about what I mean and people mean regarding the general walking strategy which is sweeping the game right now. Easily the most powerful new strategy for 3 starring massive bases since LaLoon came out. There are not well defined terms but I'm going to try to standardize them at least for us. If later someone coins them like shattered/CB etc. we might migrate to those.
Main terms:
Walking Loons - AQ walk designed to take out 2 AA and defeat the base thru air
Walking Hogs - AQ walk designed to take out a significant number of defenses
Pekka Walk - AQ walk that transitions into a 5 pekka raid, primarily a 2 star strat for high end TH10s.
Split Heroes - AQ walk which uses the BK somewhere across the base to either take out heroes, or tank for hogs/loons, etc.
Cut - The point where your queen through jumps or wallbreakers turns into the core of the base after orbiting
So i.e. a Split Hero Pekka Walk would incorporate queen walk to start, drop pekkas and head in queen and pekkas hand in hand. other side you probably see a golem and king go do something else, usually tanking for hogs. so...split pekka walk = 3 star try pekka walk = 2 star try. got it?
Considerations
For TH9 (and TH10 with weak queens) there may be a need to add additional tanking. This can be done with a golem, or fur. The latest trend is to drop 2 healers on the queen and place a single healer on a fur. Queen sweeps towards the fur and if the fur dies the healer joins up with the healer group. This is a TH9 strat and I haven't settled on a name yet. I'll mainly just say "you need a tank at X position" Whether that is a fur or healer fur is debatable.
For very weak queens <20 you will need to drop max golem first, let a healer help it, then queen and wait on healers for queen until she takes fire. This can be helped by some wiz to add some dps to trash buildings ideally letting queen work on point defenses.
The stronger the queen the longer the walk. The weaker the queen the more help will be needed.
IMPORTANT Rule of 3: Never try and face more than 3 point defenses at once without a plan, either a fur to get you through that section or plan on using your ability. This requires you to look at the outlines of each point defense when planning.
Remember an emergency rage! dropping a rage between aq and healers helps BOTH of them survive. Save the ability and use the rage. ability can get you out of an inferno beam and retarget your queen.
Some credit needs to be given to a few people for being way out ahead of this. VA sort of found the pekka walk way back in TH9. It was pretty lolz at the time. Didn't think it had legs to create what should be the premier 2 star strat at TH10 a year or so later. Also sarte made the comment about raging healers way before anyone else figured that out.
There's a ton of confusion about what I mean and people mean regarding the general walking strategy which is sweeping the game right now. Easily the most powerful new strategy for 3 starring massive bases since LaLoon came out. There are not well defined terms but I'm going to try to standardize them at least for us. If later someone coins them like shattered/CB etc. we might migrate to those.
Main terms:
Walking Loons - AQ walk designed to take out 2 AA and defeat the base thru air
Walking Hogs - AQ walk designed to take out a significant number of defenses
Pekka Walk - AQ walk that transitions into a 5 pekka raid, primarily a 2 star strat for high end TH10s.
Split Heroes - AQ walk which uses the BK somewhere across the base to either take out heroes, or tank for hogs/loons, etc.
Cut - The point where your queen through jumps or wallbreakers turns into the core of the base after orbiting
So i.e. a Split Hero Pekka Walk would incorporate queen walk to start, drop pekkas and head in queen and pekkas hand in hand. other side you probably see a golem and king go do something else, usually tanking for hogs. so...split pekka walk = 3 star try pekka walk = 2 star try. got it?
Considerations
For TH9 (and TH10 with weak queens) there may be a need to add additional tanking. This can be done with a golem, or fur. The latest trend is to drop 2 healers on the queen and place a single healer on a fur. Queen sweeps towards the fur and if the fur dies the healer joins up with the healer group. This is a TH9 strat and I haven't settled on a name yet. I'll mainly just say "you need a tank at X position" Whether that is a fur or healer fur is debatable.
For very weak queens <20 you will need to drop max golem first, let a healer help it, then queen and wait on healers for queen until she takes fire. This can be helped by some wiz to add some dps to trash buildings ideally letting queen work on point defenses.
The stronger the queen the longer the walk. The weaker the queen the more help will be needed.
IMPORTANT Rule of 3: Never try and face more than 3 point defenses at once without a plan, either a fur to get you through that section or plan on using your ability. This requires you to look at the outlines of each point defense when planning.
Remember an emergency rage! dropping a rage between aq and healers helps BOTH of them survive. Save the ability and use the rage. ability can get you out of an inferno beam and retarget your queen.
Some credit needs to be given to a few people for being way out ahead of this. VA sort of found the pekka walk way back in TH9. It was pretty lolz at the time. Didn't think it had legs to create what should be the premier 2 star strat at TH10 a year or so later. Also sarte made the comment about raging healers way before anyone else figured that out.
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