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Mad Cow's Italy trip discussion thread


Where should we go for our trip?  

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4. Would it be feasible for a few days in Rome, a few in Tuscany and then a few in Amalfi? Looks like I am going opposite directions. Would there be an easier route to go that you can see from experience?

Personally, I like Florence Italy better than Rome (and better than Venice too).

Florence & Pisa

Pisa sucks, worst tourist destination in the world sans the giant ball of wax.

Sam Gimignano, Siena, and Montepulciano are much better.

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Venice has become the best airport in Italy IMO, Malpensa and Da Vinchi are just hard to get to and from. Da Vinchi is a traffic nightmare, Malpensa is almost in Switzerland. Finding a connector via Paris/London/Amsterdam/Munich/Zurich/Etc that goes to Bologna, Linate, or Genova are great. If you are wanting to go to Amalfi, then one of the three Rome airports is best. If not, Malpensa or Venice.

Milano is underrated, if you fly to Malpensa stay at least one night in Milano and you'll be pleasantly surprised. It is the LA of Italy.

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Broken English is the world's universal language, but I always make it a point to learn some of the language of the countries I visit. I'm headed to France in 2017 and I've begun learning French. It's not too hard to get the basics of any language. I recommend it, no matter where you visit.

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If you do go to France, you really need to find a way to get up to Normandy. Its a memorable experience.

Every time I've been to a historic war battleground in current times, I'm always underwhelmed. I love reading military non-fiction though - the stories of the soldiers and telling how things really were always left more of an impression than seeing a nicely mowed grassy area and a cannon freshly painted black. I'm probably in the minority though.

I'd feel the same way about any other battleground but Normandy is definitely a moving experience.

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Where in Tuscany? I cant speak for Amalfi, but the train system in general in Italy is fantastic and way better than driving. Driving in Italy is an experience in itself and one I'd rather not repeat, especially in or near Rome. My last trip we did it entirely by train and did Florence, Venice, and Bologna. Never missed a car.

I loved driving in Italy but wouldn't drive in Rome. There's a Sheraton business hotel outside Florence that has free parking and shuttles into Florence. If you want to do day trips and don't need a luxury hotel it's the perfect location.

Eh, the perfect location for me was within Florence at a small hotel in the piazza signoria. Going to Florence and staying at a business hotel just seems so wrong to me. To each their own I guess.

Interesting, I stayed at hotel overlooking the square as well. That's an incredible location but if you want to visit other cities it's not as convenient. It wasn't my first time there so staying in the city wasn't as important to me this last time.

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i agree with dd, Pisa blows. our house in umbria has opened up some funky tours. you can stick to The tourist shtick, or bike ride thru tuscany, hit a working dairy farm, hit a roman spa in Chianciano Terme. Siena is awesome. pienza is romantic. Lucca has a wall in tack for a bike ride around. yada

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Broken English is the world's universal language, but I always make it a point to learn some of the language of the countries I visit. I'm headed to France in 2017 and I've begun learning French. It's not too hard to get the basics of any language. I recommend it, no matter where you visit.

:thumbup:

I always try to do that too. I got so good at basic Italian that people would try and have much bigger conversations than I was capable of. I would tell them, in Italian, that I know some but not a lot. I'm brushing up on French for our south of France trip in September. I expect it'll come in handy as we drive through smaller towns.

Just some common phrases makes all the difference. Shows a little to the locals.

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i agree with dd, Pisa blows. our house in umbria has opened up some funky tours. you can stick to The tourist shtick, or bike ride thru tuscany, hit a working dairy farm, hit a roman spa in Chianciano Terme. Siena is awesome. pienza is romantic. Lucca has a wall in tack for a bike ride around. yada

I didn't realize you were such a bike-riding aficionado.

Edited by Doctor Detroit
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I have been to Israel, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Turkey.

Though I had the most fun in Turkey (on Thanksgiving, no less), I don't think it would be the best anniversary spot. I am sure the bottle of Jim beam had something to do with the good time.

I really liked Spain and Greece a lot. Would recommend Greece of those two.

I voted Italy in the poll since it seems like those are the places that you and the wife have talked about going, which means you have an initial interest. I made the mistake of going to Paris instead of Rome. I was young and didn't have the money to go to both, so I chose Paris. I have regretted it ever since. I did have a great time in Pompeii, and I think you have the better time in Italy.

As for Israel, well, I wouldn't ever pay to go back.

Of the other 20+ countries I have been to, I would recommend Hong Kong or Singapore. I also REALLY loved Peru.

Wherever you choose, have a great time!

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

Very funny, Chet. I get a happier and warmer feeling when I visit Italy.

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For our 10th we spent s week in Rome and a week in Position. Rented an apartment in Rome(slowtrav.com is a site to check). Hotel in Positano. Loved Rome. What an awesome city. Rome is an easy week. Positano is a great hub for trips to Pompeii, Naples, Sorrento, Amalfi, Ravello , and Capri. Did it all by train. No car and we didn't miss it. I still have lots of detail on this if you'd like.

On airports one thing to note is that Milan trends to be the cheapest to get in to. Rome is expensive, in general.

That said my wife and I went for our 20th to Ireland last week. Spent No time in Dublin other than flights. It was also a great trip. Loved the experience.

Even though we loved ireland for a first trip to Europe I vote Italy. Rome is incredible - a can't miss kind of experience.

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Hong Kong is a country? Do you like it so much because of Hong Kong Phooey?

I could have said China, but since its only the third largest country in the world, I figured it was implied. Since Wal Mart rolled back the prices on cleverness tonight, I will humor you.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

Very funny, Chet. I get a happier and warmer feeling when I visit Italy.

If you can't spot the ####### in the first ten minutes in a new city, something, something.

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4. Would it be feasible for a few days in Rome, a few in Tuscany and then a few in Amalfi? Looks like I am going opposite directions. Would there be an easier route to go that you can see from experience?

Personally, I like Florence Italy better than Rome (and better than Venice too).

I'm not sure I've met anyone who's been to both (Florence and Rome) who didn't prefer the former.

Florence is a nicer place to stay and relax. However, I'm a big history buff and love seeing all the historical sites, so I'd much rather do Rome if I had to pick one and I hadn't visited before. Florence is certainly a better pick for a get away trip with the wife if you aren't as into all the ancient stuff.

I was talked out of doing the Amalfi coast on the trip with Paris, Florence and Rome. I LOVED Florence, and everything around it. Took a day trip to Siena (morning after the Palio - they were still celebrating) San Gemingnano, etc. That being said, the historical aspect of Rome is a must IMO. I think it was a 2 hour train ride.

If you have limited time, you might want to avoid the overnight train thing. A lot of people said they were very uncomfortable. The flight from Paris to Pisa was a breeze. Sure, you may see countryside out your window but time is precious on a vacation. I'd rather get there quick (and sleep in my bed).

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

I really don't get all of the hate. They were nothing but great to us. But then again we weren't rude ourselves, weren't obnoxious. I think the stereotypes lie both ways. They see enough WallyWorld goin', mullet and tank tops with cutoff jeans wearin', obnoxious loud yahoos from the US to thumb their noses at us once in awhile. Seriously - anybody who doesn't go to Paris, one of the greatest cities in the world, because of this mass, piling on, misinformed hate is missin' out.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

Very funny, Chet. I get a happier and warmer feeling when I visit Italy.

If you can't spot the ####### in the first ten minutes in a new city, something, something.

:hifive:

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If I had the choice between amalfi coast vs cinque terre I'd go with Cinque Terre all the way. The amalfi coast was pretty meh imo. Cinque Terre has a much more relaxing/cool vacation sort of vibe.

I loved Florence. Preferred it to Rome. The art in both cities was amazing. Doesn't sound like your much interested in the culture though. Pompeii was fun...unfortunately most of the artifacts are in Naples which I did not get to see on my Italy trip.

I took an overnight sleeper train from Venice to Paris which you might want to consider.

Paris is Paris. Best cuisine in the world. Go to the louvre. Versialles is worth seeing as well.

Best piece of advice I can give is to get the Rome/City passes if you go. It enables you to skip some VERY long lines - St. Peters, The Colosseum etc...

Rick Steves is a very good resource...

Rome Pass

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/roma-pass-6bbd9c2d-3c0e-433d-a930-ea6c00b53f6d

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If I had the choice between amalfi coast vs cinque terre I'd go with Cinque Terre all the way. The amalfi coast was pretty meh imo. Cinque Terre has a much more relaxing/cool vacation sort of vibe.

Agree w/this. Not that the Amalfi was all that meh, but the part about preferring Cinque Terre. But it's more of a next-trip kind of thing. Not so much about exploring Italy as tucking away and relaxing. See also: Chania, Crete.

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"Amalfi is meh," lol.

Might have something to do with getting 'car sick' on the bus due to all the windy roads. Didn't spend alot of time there, nor would I want to given other options.

That's where you went wrong.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

I really don't get all of the hate. They were nothing but great to us. But then again we weren't rude ourselves, weren't obnoxious. I think the stereotypes lie both ways. They see enough WallyWorld goin', mullet and tank tops with cutoff jeans wearin', obnoxious loud yahoos from the US to thumb their noses at us once in awhile. Seriously - anybody who doesn't go to Paris, one of the greatest cities in the world, because of this mass, piling on, misinformed hate is missin' out.

We saw very little of it in 2 trips to Paris. Almost everyone was very friendly.

It reminds me of a friend who took a Mediterranean cruise and said he'd never go back to Italy because the people were all rude. And he's Italian. I tried to tell him what do you expect from people who have to deal with idiots coming off cruise ships all day. Not exactly a good representation of the people.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

I really don't get all of the hate. They were nothing but great to us. But then again we weren't rude ourselves, weren't obnoxious. I think the stereotypes lie both ways. They see enough WallyWorld goin', mullet and tank tops with cutoff jeans wearin', obnoxious loud yahoos from the US to thumb their noses at us once in awhile. Seriously - anybody who doesn't go to Paris, one of the greatest cities in the world, because of this mass, piling on, misinformed hate is missin' out.

We saw very little of it in 2 trips to Paris. Almost everyone was very friendly.

It reminds me of a friend who took a Mediterranean cruise and said he'd never go back to Italy because the people were all rude. And he's Italian. I tried to tell him what do you expect from people who have to deal with idiots coming off cruise ships all day. Not exactly a good representation of the people.

You really have to be an ### to not get along with Italians.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

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I have visited both France and Italy several times. Loved both countries and think they each can offer a wonderful experience. History, culture, food, wine, diversity of regions are fairly equal. We have done them by car and by train. I prefer driving. Generally speaking, in bigger cities using trains/metros are easier... driving in the countryside is amazing to me. Also, these days I prefer staying at neighboring smaller towns and doing the day trips in (ie: staying in siena and going into florence).

edit: i also think paris is getting a bad rap. it is a big city that has a fast pace. I do not think rome is very different in that regard. think of tourists visiting NY and not being able to speak english. they are likely get much different service and hospitality than those that at least know a small amount. whichever country you decide to visit, spend a little time learning some basics to help you get around and find what you need.

Edited by bierfiend
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edit: i also think paris is getting a bad rap. it is a big city that has a fast pace. I do not think rome is very different in that regard. think of tourists visiting NY and not being able to speak english. they are likely get much different service and hospitality than those that at least know a small amount. whichever country you decide to visit, spend a little time learning some basics to help you get around and find what you need.

Exactly. I have been to Paris and Rome about the same amount of times, eight or so. At the time I was visiting Rome I was speaking fluent Italian, I only know a little French for Paris. I have had better experience with the locals in Paris than I have in Rome, Romans are very dickish IMO. Any big city almost anywhere is going to have people who don't like tourists, and have no time for you. New York City, LA, Berlin, Rome, London, etc.

The whole anti-Parisians shtick has been exacerbated by ignorance and the cultural divide between Americans and the French. We don't care for them and they don't care for us as a whole, but as individuals I think everything is generally water under the bridge (at least for me, but I like to talk to people). They have their arrogant ###-clowns, so does New York City, Rome and London. Just like anywhere if you make an effort with the French, they will respond positively. The people that have issues are the people who go to France and expect to have the same things they have in the U.S (present company possibly excluded). Well, it's ####### France!

Edited by Doctor Detroit
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Also if people think Italians don't chide Americans, you are very mistaken. The French just do it to your face, but the Italians love poking fun at "Tex" and retired couple who hasn't spent one ####### moment trying to learn a phrase in Italian. I think most French and Italians think we are mostly stupid, and I tend to agree with them. We are among the worst tourists in the world, but we have money so some people put up with us.

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I've been all over, do my best in every language, and Parisians were the most hostile. In the rest of France, they helped me learn more French words, helped me pronounce the words I had only read, and were generally not only nice, but encouraging. Not so in Paris.

That wasn't an isolated experience of one day with one bad encounter... I spent probably 3 weeks total in Paris spread out over about five trips.

Don't try to turn this on me for being American... Paris has earned its reputation. I was American everywhere else I went too, and people were nice.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

There are #######s everywhere. I'd have told them to #### off in French and left the shop.

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Worst

Tourists

I lived in Europe for 15 years, so that's like 750 weeks, we are the worst. Sorry this makes people butthurt, but the :cry: about Parisians is just funny to me. They aren't any worse than Romans and are a lot better than almost any German IMO.

Americans don't adapt well, that's what I have heard before. That's a polite way of saying spoiled, and I agree with it 100%. Not all of us are this way of course, but I'd say from my experience it is a majority. Knowing you suck is half the battle. :mellow:

Edited by Doctor Detroit
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Tourists

I lived in Europe for 15 years, so that's like 750 weeks, we are the worst. Sorry this makes people butthurt, but the :cry: about Parisians is just funny to me. They aren't any worse than Romans and are a lot better than almost any German IMO.

Americans don't adapt well, that's what I have heard before. That's a polite way of saying spoiled, and I agree with it 100%. Not all of us are this way of course, but I'd say from my experience it is a majority. Knowing you suck is half the battle. :mellow:

And being proud of it is the other half. :2cents:

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Americans are worse than the Asian tourists that walk around holding a camera in front of their face so they can take 2,000 selfies of them self walking Las Ramblas?

I find that one hard to believe, but what I do know. I've never had a negative experience in another country? Tip, smile, try the language, and go with the flow always seems to work.

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Americans are worse than the Asian tourists that walk around holding a camera in front of their face so they can take 2,000 selfies of them self walking Las Ramblas?

Those people don't send their food back nearly as often.

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I lived in London 11 years and American tourists stuck out like sore thumbs. They were ####### embarrassing.

I wore sneakers the first time I stepped out of the hotel in London but quickly changed to shoes when I realized they screamed "American Tourist". :bag:

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

There are #######s everywhere. I'd have told them to #### off in French and left the shop.

I said "cha-klət" very slowly a couple of times and the girl at the counter shook her head and scooped me a cone.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

There are #######s everywhere. I'd have told them to #### off in French and left the shop.

I said "cha-klət" very slowly a couple of times and the girl at the counter shook her head and scooped me a cone.

did you ask her how good her german would be and if she had an extra white flag....eh hem... napkin?

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Americans are worse than the Asian tourists that walk around holding a camera in front of their face so they can take 2,000 selfies of them self walking Las Ramblas?

Those people don't send their food back nearly as often.

I know someone who does this and calls me a "pushover" for not doing the same. Frankly, do not think it's a big deal getting served Pepsi vs. Coke.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

There are #######s everywhere. I'd have told them to #### off in French and left the shop.

I said "cha-klət" very slowly a couple of times and the girl at the counter shook her head and scooped me a cone.

did you ask her how good her german would be and if she had an extra white flag....eh hem... napkin?

She was about 16, very pretty but very mean.

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France has a bunch of French people. Really, that's all the reason you need to go to Italy.

Parisians are the all time suck.

Not true at all. You were probably being a typical American and deserved what you got.

I've spent a lot of time in Paris and haven't noticed a higher ratio of #######s there than anywhere else.

In the French countryside, they were very hospital. In about a half dozen other countries, not the slightest problem. In Paris, oh those Parisians love to pretend like the don't speak English.

You're a guest in their country. How would you react if some tourist came up to you and started yammering at you in Mandarin, German, Arabic etc? Well guess what? It happens to them every day and all day. Paris is the most visited city in the world.

Like I said, typical ethnocentric American who thinks everyone should bend over backwards to speak English and gets pissed off when they don't.

I was buying icecream from a small shop and they told me in English that they would sell to me only if I could tell them what I want in French.

There are #######s everywhere. I'd have told them to #### off in French and left the shop.

I said "cha-klət" very slowly a couple of times and the girl at the counter shook her head and scooped me a cone.

did you ask her how good her german would be and if she had an extra white flag....eh hem... napkin?

She was about 16, very pretty but very mean.

great opportunity to educate

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Worst

Tourists

I lived in Europe for 15 years, so that's like 750 weeks, we are the worst. Sorry this makes people butthurt, but the :cry: about Parisians is just funny to me. They aren't any worse than Romans and are a lot better than almost any German IMO.

Americans don't adapt well, that's what I have heard before. That's a polite way of saying spoiled, and I agree with it 100%. Not all of us are this way of course, but I'd say from my experience it is a majority. Knowing you suck is half the battle. :mellow:

I haven't been to Rome. Parisians are worse than:

Germans in Hamburg

Belgians in Antwerp and Brugge

English in London and Felixstowe

Italians in Turin

Welsh in Caldicot

Spanish in Cartagena

French in Burgundy

Chileans in Santiago

Mexicans in Monterrey

Puerto Ricans in San Juan

Chinese in Wuxi and Beijing

Koreans in Ulsan

New Zealanders on the south island

In all of those cases other than China and Korea, I either speak the language or can read it. I don't send my food back. I don't get get drunk and act like a bro.

I understand - Americans have a reputation we've earned - we're the worst tourists. So do Parisians - they're the rudest.

The only place that has compared to Paris in that regard is Hawaii in isolated instances.

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The Parisians we encountered as tourists were great. They want your money so for the most part they will be accommodating and friendly.

We have friends of friends in Paris, who didn't work in tourist-facing positions, who fit every negative stereotype about Parisians you've ever heard. So I see both sides based on my anecdotal experience, but for the most part I don't think American tourists should avoid the city just b/c they are concerned about how rude Parisians can be.

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