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Marshawn Lynch -- "I'm here so I won't get fined" (3 Viewers)

Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I think he saved his season, and bought himself another year.

Still running with the same violence, still impossible to bring down on the first hit. Because he is always looking to hit you first.

Have no idea why we haven’t been giving him 15+ carries a game so he can wear Ds down. Another reason why I’ve been calling for Downing’s head all year.

For those who thought he lost a step, I think it’s undeniably clear he hasn’t.

Limiting factor this year is his usage, not performance.
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He still runs really hard but he has lost a step.  Not sure why some are in denial about that. He's a 31 year old RB and I am aware his game has never been based on pure speed, but it's a split second lost that makes the difference between a 6 yard run and a 20 yard run. 

He had a good game against Miami, but pretty much every RB lights them up these days.  He ran hard against Denver, but needed 26 carries to get 67 yards.  I know the OL isn't playing as well this year, but they are still a top 10 unit and a lot better than what he ran behind in Seattle.  If he hadn't lost a step, he would be having bigger yardage games with as hard as he still runs. 

 
He blew up b/c I dropped him for Clement before the games. You're welcome! Still don't regret it as it's dynasty & he would never start for me.

 
efactor said:
He still runs really hard but he has lost a step.  Not sure why some are in denial about that. He's a 31 year old RB and I am aware his game has never been based on pure speed, but it's a split second lost that makes the difference between a 6 yard run and a 20 yard run. 

He had a good game against Miami, but pretty much every RB lights them up these days.  He ran hard against Denver, but needed 26 carries to get 67 yards.  I know the OL isn't playing as well this year, but they are still a top 10 unit and a lot better than what he ran behind in Seattle.  If he hadn't lost a step, he would be having bigger yardage games with as hard as he still runs. 
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I simply can't agree, nor do I see any basis whatsoever in the assertion that he's "lost a step."

Needing 26 carries to get 67 yards seems to be your only piece of evidence, which is really misguided when considering that Lynch was facing a D that is #2 for the year in YPA limiting opposing backs to 3.3 YPC, allowing the 6th fewest fantasy points to backs all year, and having allowed only one RB to go over 55 yards this year. 

I don't see how you or anyone else could have watched the Denver game and any other game from Lynch's career with the Hawks and objectively concluded he's a lesser back in terms of his ability.

Sorry, it's just not true.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I simply can't agree, nor do I see any basis whatsoever in the assertion that he's "lost a step."

Needing 26 carries to get 67 yards seems to be your only piece of evidence, which is really misguided when considering that Lynch was facing a D that is #2 for the year in YPA limiting opposing backs to 3.3 YPC, allowing the 6th fewest fantasy points to backs all year, and having allowed only one RB to go over 55 yards this year. 

I don't see how you or anyone else could have watched the Denver game and any other game from Lynch's career with the Hawks and objectively concluded he's a lesser back in terms of his ability.

Sorry, it's just not true.
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But his YPC is 3.7 on the season running behind the best OL of his career, so it's not just Denver he has struggled against as far as YPC.  I realize the YPC isn't the ultimate measuring stick, but it is one.  Comes down to not breaking many runs of 10 plus yards.  Being slightly slower is the difference in a LB getting a bigger piece of him, allowing him to make a tackle vs getting a smaller piece and getting shaken off.

I don't see how anyone can watch objectively and think he hasn't lost a step.  Watched him a ton during his career with the Seahawks and I watch him now and there are plays that look like they are going to break and don't because he doesn't get through the opening quick enough.  He's 31 now.  To say he has the same quickness as he did at 27-28 just isn't true.

You look and see the same player.  I look and see a slightly slower player.  Both basing it on the eyeball test, but if he was the same player he has always been, his numbers would be better running behind the best OL he has ever run behind.  Don't see how anyone can argue that. It's like you see the good runs and ignore the runs he could have gotten much larger chunks of yardage on. Still a good guy to have, but not the same player he was 3 years ago.

 
efactor said:
But his YPC is 3.7 on the season running behind the best OL of his career, so it's not just Denver he has struggled against as far as YPC.  I realize the YPC isn't the ultimate measuring stick, but it is one.  Comes down to not breaking many runs of 10 plus yards.  Being slightly slower is the difference in a LB getting a bigger piece of him, allowing him to make a tackle vs getting a smaller piece and getting shaken off.

I don't see how anyone can watch objectively and think he hasn't lost a step.  Watched him a ton during his career with the Seahawks and I watch him now and there are plays that look like they are going to break and don't because he doesn't get through the opening quick enough.  He's 31 now.  To say he has the same quickness as he did at 27-28 just isn't true.

You look and see the same player.  I look and see a slightly slower player.  Both basing it on the eyeball test, but if he was the same player he has always been, his numbers would be better running behind the best OL he has ever run behind.  Don't see how anyone can argue that. It's like you see the good runs and ignore the runs he could have gotten much larger chunks of yardage on. Still a good guy to have, but not the same player he was 3 years ago.
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Here is the problem with your argument. You are saying he's lost a step based on running behind the best OL he has ever had.

1) Not sure that's true at all. Raiders left side of the line can be elite on paper, but they haven't played that way for most games this year. Rest of the line has been developing. By comparison, the Seahawks 2013 SB O-line of Giacomini, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, and Okung was the highest paid line in the NFL at that time, and played that way. Okung and Unger are as much -- and I believe more -- decorated in terms of Pro Bowls/All-Pros/etc. than Penn and Osemele.

2) Basing your argument on the fact that Lynch should have gotten more yardage on some of his runs is a little ridiculous -- he had plenty of runs during his Hawks years where he got stuffed as well. Not every run Lynch had created earthquakes. I'm not ignoring those at all. I'm looking at Lynch's entire game, and again, the limiting factor on his success this year absolutely on the coaching staff not giving him snaps than on Lynch.

As for the losing a step, let me ask you this: when was Lynch's game ever based on pure speed? He was never a burner with a ridiculous 40 time. His strength and game is predicated on burst and acceleration, which I see zero evidence as being affected. 

Make sure you actually watch the DEN game rather than rely on box scores if you haven't already. If you have actually watched the game and for any reason think that Lynch looks like a much lesser back than he was, happy to let you go on believing that. Will agree to disagree -- and I absolutely disagree. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Here is the problem with your argument. You are saying he's lost a step based on running behind the best OL he has ever had.

1) Not sure that's true at all. Raiders left side of the line can be elite on paper, but they haven't played that way for most games this year. Rest of the line has been developing. By comparison, the Seahawks 2013 SB O-line of Giacomini, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, and Okung was the highest paid line in the NFL at that time, and played that way. Okung and Unger are as much -- and I believe more -- decorated in terms of Pro Bowls/All-Pros/etc. than Penn and Osemele.

2) Basing your argument on the fact that Lynch should have gotten more yardage on some of his runs is a little ridiculous -- he had plenty of runs during his Hawks years where he got stuffed as well. Not every run Lynch had created earthquakes. I'm not ignoring those at all. I'm looking at Lynch's entire game, and again, the limiting factor on his success this year absolutely on the coaching staff not giving him snaps than on Lynch.

As for the losing a step, let me ask you this: when was Lynch's game ever based on pure speed? He was never a burner with a ridiculous 40 time. His strength and game is predicated on burst and acceleration, which I see zero evidence as being affected. 

Make sure you actually watch the DEN game rather than rely on box scores if you haven't already. If you have actually watched the game and for any reason think that Lynch looks like a much lesser back than he was, happy to let you go on believing that. Will agree to disagree -- and I absolutely disagree. 
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Not at all.  I am saying he has lost a step because he doesn't hit the hole as quickly as he used to.  My point about the OL is that if he were the same RB he used to be, his numbers would be significantly better than 3.7 a carry since he is running behind the best OL he has had (yes better than that Seattle line).

I watched the entire Denver game.  Some decent runs, but overall, nothing special.  When you get 26 carries, you should have a few good runs, even against a good defense.  Lav Murray had a 60 yard run on Thursday, so the same yardage in one run as Lynch had the entire game.  Why doesn't Lynch break off big plays?  Because he has lost the extra step to get to the next level.  It happens to 31 year old RBs. 

Of course Lynch had a lot of runs where he got stuffed in his career with the Seahawks, but he also had a lot of big chunk plays too, which he isn't getting now.  Just a step slower.

Still a fun guy to watch and can be effective, but to say he hasn't lost a step is delusional. 

 
efactor said:
Not at all.  I am saying he has lost a step because he doesn't hit the hole as quickly as he used to.  My point about the OL is that if he were the same RB he used to be, his numbers would be significantly better than 3.7 a carry since he is running behind the best OL he has had (yes better than that Seattle line).

I watched the entire Denver game.  Some decent runs, but overall, nothing special.  When you get 26 carries, you should have a few good runs, even against a good defense.  Lav Murray had a 60 yard run on Thursday, so the same yardage in one run as Lynch had the entire game.  Why doesn't Lynch break off big plays?  Because he has lost the extra step to get to the next level.  It happens to 31 year old RBs. 

Of course Lynch had a lot of runs where he got stuffed in his career with the Seahawks, but he also had a lot of big chunk plays too, which he isn't getting now.  Just a step slower.

Still a fun guy to watch and can be effective, but to say he hasn't lost a step is delusional. 
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Repeating bad arguments doesn't make them better. 

You add another one here -- you think that just because a back gets 26 carries, that means automatically he should have a 60+ yarder? Forget about the makeup of the D the RB faces or any other factors. Now that is the very definition of delusional. 

Lynch didn't just have a few good runs -- he had many GREAT ones. Ones where he hit the hole as hard and as fast as he ever did, runs where he refused to go down, dragging a pile of Broncos with him. These are the runs that have defined his style and effectiveness as a back in the NFL, and he looks just as good here as he ever did on the Hawks.

I'll stop there before this gets more childish. Just leaving the highlights for you and all to watch.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000883592/Marshawn-Lynch-highlights-Week-12

 
Marshawn has scored 3 Td's in the last 3 games and he's is facing the 31st/29th/17th rush defenses in yards allowed the next 3 weeks.

He can be started with confidence imo..........Starting him over Baldwin in the flex who is facing Philly/Jags/Rams the same three week period.

 
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Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Repeating bad arguments doesn't make them better. 

You add another one here -- you think that just because a back gets 26 carries, that means automatically he should have a 60+ yarder? Forget about the makeup of the D the RB faces or any other factors. Now that is the very definition of delusional. 

Lynch didn't just have a few good runs -- he had many GREAT ones. Ones where he hit the hole as hard and as fast as he ever did, runs where he refused to go down, dragging a pile of Broncos with him. These are the runs that have defined his style and effectiveness as a back in the NFL, and he looks just as good here as he ever did on the Hawks.

I'll stop there before this gets more childish. Just leaving the highlights for you and all to watch.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000883592/Marshawn-Lynch-highlights-Week-12
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Insisting on something that just isn't true doesn't make it the truth either................

If he had "many great runs", he would have averaged more than 2.5 yards a carry.  Not difficult to grasp unless your definition of "great" is "just OK".  Nobody said he doesn't still run hard.  That's not in dispute.  To say he is the same runner he was in Seattle is just delusional.

 
Milkman said:
Marshawn has scored 3 Td's in the last 3 games and he's is facing the 31st/29th/17th rush defenses in yards allowed the next 3 weeks.

Starting him over Baldwin in the flex who is facing Philly/Jags/Rams the same three week period.
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He's lined up nicely for the next two weeks for sure................

 
efactor said:
He's lined up nicely for the next two weeks for sure................
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The 17th ranked rush def in yards allowed is Dallas who might be without Sean Lee. If that's the case they are a lot worse run D than 17th with him out of the lineup.

 
Milkman said:
The 17th ranked rush def in yards allowed is Dallas who might be without Sean Lee. If that's the case they are a lot worse run D than 17th with him out of the lineup.
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True, but they look like the 70s Steelers in comparison to the Giants and Chiefs................

 
efactor said:
Insisting on something that just isn't true doesn't make it the truth either................

If he had "many great runs", he would have averaged more than 2.5 yards a carry.  Not difficult to grasp unless your definition of "great" is "just OK".  Nobody said he doesn't still run hard.  That's not in dispute.  To say he is the same runner he was in Seattle is just delusional.
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Lynch's YPC is 3.7 this year vs his last year with the Hawks at 3.8. His career average is just 4.2.

Yeah, he clearly sucks as a runner now compared to then.

 
I couldn't find the game stats, but I wonder what split by half was? In other words, running out the clock in the fourth quarter, Denver stacking the box would lead to lower YPC than earlier in the game. Just curious.

I'm on the side where he looks pretty good to me. Waldman seemed to think so earlier in the year too and I usually like his analyses.

 
Michael Gehlken‏  @GehlkenNFL

Raiders RB Marshawn Lynch not spotted at practice during portion open to media. Wasn’t on injury report Wednesday. Update to follow practice.

11:59 AM - 30 Nov 2017
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Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Lynch's YPC is 3.7 this year vs his last year with the Hawks at 3.8. His career average is just 4.2.

Yeah, he clearly sucks as a runner now compared to then.
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Didn't say he sucked.  Said he isn't the same runner he was in his prime. 

You seem to have a desperate need to be right here, but you're not.  Sorry.......................

 
efactor said:
Didn't say he sucked.  Said he isn't the same runner he was in his prime. 

You seem to have a desperate need to be right here, but you're not.  Sorry.......................
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Not desperate to be anything. Not trying to convince you of anything either, feel free to have any opinion you'd like to hold.

What I will say is that if you call the difference between 3.7 and 3.8 ypc a huge and concerning discrepancy and proof that Lynch has lost a step, you maybe need to take a pause and a deep breath before throwing out words like delusional. 

 
When I watch Lynch I see a RB who stills runs hard, still runs up the backs of his blockers, will dish out and take big hits, and has lost a step. Still think he can be somewhat effective but don`t see him being the Lynch of 3 years ago.

 
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Averaging 15 points per game over the last four games in standard. Offense seems to run better when they use him; sputters without him. Raiders are 4-0 when he gets 14+ touches in a game; 0-5 when he gets less than 12 touches.

Can we stop blaming Marshawn for the Raiders woes now? 

 
Milkman said:
Marshawn has scored 3 Td's in the last 3 games and he's is facing the 31st/29th/17th rush defenses in yards allowed the next 3 weeks.

He can be started with confidence imo..........Starting him over Baldwin in the flex who is facing Philly/Jags/Rams the same three week period.
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Vs the NYG 31st ranked (yards allowed) run D - 121 total yards 2 rec and one TD

Next up KC's 29th ranked run D........

Choo Choo!

 
Weebs210 said:
@Stompin' Tom Connors and I have been beating the Lynch drum since week one. I'm glad the Raiders coaches finally realize it. It's funny all the "he's old and washed" guys are no where to be found. Maybe we should send out a APB?
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I've stopped listening after there were zero good or convincing arguments on the other side of that fence. 

http://www.raiders.com/media-vault/videos/Marshawn-Lynch-Highlights-Week-13-vs-Giants/d79dfcab-9950-4e95-b8ca-b732fdf530dc

Look at the replay of his 51 yard turbo-boosted TD -- a great example of . At 0:30 of the above, it shows not that Lynch's speed is still all there, but his amazing quickness and footwork is just as good as ever -- look at that lightning-fast cut to his left at the LOS to firmly put him out of reach of the defender. Reflexes and motion are just as sound as they have ever been.

Others mistake Lynch for a back whose game was predicated on speed, which it never was. It's about power and being impossible to bring down. The runs that define him as a back are ones where he displays this awesome power/balance/toughness/impossible-to-take-down qualities. He looks even faster in that clip than he did in his quintessential Beastmode runs in his prime with the Hawks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDOBejlx7Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmelivYV5cc

 
Weebs210 said:
@Stompin' Tom Connors and I have been beating the Lynch drum since week one. I'm glad the Raiders coaches finally realize it. It's funny all the "he's old and washed" guys are no where to be found. Maybe we should send out a APB?
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I'm glad he finally broke a long one and took it to the house, so we don't have to hear that he's too slow to break past the second level and get big chunk yardage. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I've stopped listening after there were zero good or convincing arguments on the other side of that fence. 

http://www.raiders.com/media-vault/videos/Marshawn-Lynch-Highlights-Week-13-vs-Giants/d79dfcab-9950-4e95-b8ca-b732fdf530dc

Look at the replay of his 51 yard turbo-boosted TD -- a great example of . At 0:30 of the above, it shows not that Lynch's speed is still all there, but his amazing quickness and footwork is just as good as ever -- look at that lightning-fast cut to his left at the LOS to firmly put him out of reach of the defender. Reflexes and motion are just as sound as they have ever been.

Others mistake Lynch for a back whose game was predicated on speed, which it never was. It's about power and being impossible to bring down. The runs that define him as a back are ones where he displays this awesome power/balance/toughness/impossible-to-take-down qualities. He looks even faster in that clip than he did in his quintessential Beastmode runs in his prime with the Hawks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDOBejlx7Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmelivYV5cc
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I like the pass play where he jukes two DBs before carrying a couple more for 10+ yards. Quickness and power in one play.

 
According to Michael Gehlken of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Marshawn Lynch has met with coach Jon Gruden at Raiders headquarters on "multiple occasions."

There were rumblings that Lynch had blown off Gruden, but apparently those rumors were unfounded. Lynch still has one year remaining on his contract but turns 32 in April. Beast Mode fared reasonably well in his return from a one-year hiatus, averaging 4.3 yards per carry with seven touchdowns in 15 games this past season. He'll be on the RB2/3 radar if he sticks with Oakland in 2018.

Source: Michael Gehlken on Twitter 

Feb 9 - 4:25 PM
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According to NFL Network's Mike Silver, the Raiders have no plans to "part ways" with Marshawn Lynch.

The Raiders just brought Doug Martin in a one-year contract and while that could be taken as a sign that Lynch's days in Oakland are number, Silver insists that isn't the case. Lynch played reasonably well in his return from a one-year absence, but turns 32 next month and is due a hefty $6 million salary in 2018. Even if the Raiders stand pat, Lynch will be difficult to trust in fantasy while facing competition from Martin, Jalen Richard and DeAndre Washington.

Source: Mike Silver on Twitter 

Mar 15 - 3:24 PM
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NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports Marshawn Lynch took a $500,000 pay cut from the Raiders before a $1 million roster bonus was due on Saturday.

Lynch was previously guaranteed no money on the deal, but according to Pelissero, Lynch is now essentially guaranteed $4.5 million thanks to the restructure and has a base value of $5.5 million for 2018. It locks Lynch into the Raiders this season after there had been previous speculation he may be released. Lynch will remain the starter, with Doug Martin competing for a backup job.

Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter 

Mar 21 - 10:34 AM
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Usually I fade older players to the point of being overly stubborn about it but when researching Jamaal Williams, which seems to be a common theme for my offseason, I discovered Lynch had the highest yards created per carry last year. I haven’t got to do my Oakland projections (and am way behind) but I think I need to add exposure for where he is going in drafts.

 
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Bojang0301 said:
Usually I fade older players to the point of being overly stubborn about it but when researching Jamaal Williams, which seems to be a common theme for my offseason, I discovered Lynch had the highest yards created per carry last year. I haven’t got to do my Oakland projects (and am way behind) but I think I need to add exposure for where he is going in drafts.
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Marshawn's adp right now

 
It’s a stupid small sample size but a couple observations about the Raiders 1st drive of the preseason:

i like the swagger they came out with.

Jordy Nelson looked a little slow, but got open. Should be better in PPR leagues than non-PPR. 

Lynch has burst he hasn’t shown in a couple seasons. He busted that 60+ yard TD like a bat out of hell - his top end speed blew away a pretty quick DB who had an angle on him. Holding negated the play & i’m glad it did. Hopefully it’ll help keep his ADP slow, but I suspect it’s going to rise a round or 3 after this game & the next. My drafts are on the 26/27, so we’ll see. He’s gonna be a bargain as a RB3. 

Again - all based on one drive of the preseason. Stupid small sample size. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It’s a stupid small sample size but a couple observations about the Raiders 1st drive of the preseason:

i like the swagger they came out with.

Jordy Nelson looked a little slow, but got open. Should be better in PPR leagues than non-PPR. 

Lynch has burst he hasn’t shown in a couple seasons. He busted that 60+ yard TD like a bat out of hell - his top end speed blew away a pretty quick DB who had an angle on him. Holding negated the play & i’m glad it did. Hopefully it’ll help keep his ADP slow, but I suspect it’s going to rise a round or 3 after this game & the next. My drafts are on the 26/27, so we’ll see. He’s gonna be a bargain as a RB3. 

Again - all based on one drive of the preseason. Stupid small sample size. 
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Agree, I saw all this too. Lynch is a solid rb3, no doubt. And the raiders had swagger. Looking forward to watching them this year. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It’s a stupid small sample size but a couple observations about the Raiders 1st drive of the preseason:

i like the swagger they came out with.

Jordy Nelson looked a little slow, but got open. Should be better in PPR leagues than non-PPR.

Lynch has burst he hasn’t shown in a couple seasons. He busted that 60+ yard TD like a bat out of hell - his top end speed blew away a pretty quick DB who had an angle on him. Holding negated the play & i’m glad it did. Hopefully it’ll help keep his ADP slow, but I suspect it’s going to rise a round or 3 after this game & the next. My drafts are on the 26/27, so we’ll see. He’s gonna be a bargain as a RB3.

Again - all based on one drive of the preseason. Stupid small sample size.
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It's nice an all but Glover Quin looks slow as ####. I keep re watching trying to figure out if Lynch looks that fast or Quin looks that slow. Maybe it's a bit of both?

 
Marshawn limited last two days with a groin issue. Waiting to see today's report. :sadbanana:

Possible Gruden is playing mind games with McVay (Osemele also limited), but there have been reports for a few weeks now that Lynch has been running with bands around his thighs, so this might actually be a real issue. Lynch looked like a rocket on one preseason 60 yd run that was called back on an insignificant hold. But he hardly played otherwise. Not sure what to think, but I'm tempted to cut bait in a short bench league where I'm well stocked at RB and need to trim a roster spot by tomorrow am. Sigh.

 
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