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51 minutes ago, wdcrob said:

Furley, just watch the US team play and you'll get a pretty good sense of who's who and where they play their club soccer.  They're pretty spread out right now though ... a lot are in MLS (USA), some are in Liga Mex, some are in the EPL (England) and several key players are in the Bundesliga (Germany).  But if you try to watch all of them to start you'll drown in soccer.  Best to just pick a league you think sounds interesting and start there.  Or just pick several of the world's best teams (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Juventus, Bayern Munich) and watch them.  You'll get a steady stream of great soccer that way and get more familiar with players on other teams as you do.

i'm having a hard time listening to the announcers on US games.  

when compared to the guys calling European (etc.) games it's a totally different experience. 

you can hear the inexperience in their calls. it's so formulaic and boring. all the color guys go to the same broadcast school.. whatever they call the training when guys go straight from the sport to the booth.... and it shows.  they all sound exactly the same.   the same narratives, the same shtick, cadence, etc. it's boring listening to them fumbling through canned anecdotes and pre-packaged one-liners.

their depth of knowledge seems to be lacking, too.  maybe because it's being dumbed down for the American audience? i dunno.

 

when listening to the experienced guys calling EPL games, or even the non-Americans at the World Cup, there's a totally different rhythm to the call. they aren't constantly talking, trying to fill every single second with conversation. they let the game breathe. they talk about individual players club play. about their previous performances in other tournaments, etc. they feel more familiar with the game. more certain in their knowledge. they're discussing soccer history, players fitness, contracts, transfers, etc.   it feels like you're more immersed in the experience. 

i don't feel like i'm really learning anything about the game or players that isn't obvious on the surface to anyone who just happens to turn in that may have zero contact with the sport.

 

listening to American soccer calls is like overhearing some guy at the bar explaining the game to his wife while she reads Cosmo and yells at the kids.

 

 

Edited by mr. furley
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1 hour ago, mr. furley said:

where?

 

1 hour ago, mr. furley said:

US soccer coverage isn't quite so extensive

There is more soccer on TV in the US than in any other country in the world.  Let that sink in for a second :)

We have fantastic coverage of MLS, EPL, La Liga, Liga MX, Bundesliga and Serie A for league play, we have sweeping coverage of CCL and UCL, we have non stop coverage of big events like WC, Euro's, and Copa.

We have access to smaller events like youth qualifying tournaments, and the bigger youth WC's themselves.

We have access to a ton of qualifiers from South American, Europe and North America.

The list goes on and on.  There is more soccer on TV than any person could hope to absorb (I know because I tried :) )

If you are looking for specific channels, watch ESPN, ESPN2, FS1, FS2, NBCSN and beIN Sport for a lot of soccer in English (and then the spanish channels like Univisoin, Telemundo show soccer almost non stop).

Edited by NewlyRetired
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1 minute ago, mr. furley said:

i'm having a hard time listening to the announcers on US games.  

when compared to the guys calling European (etc.) games it's a totally different experience. 

you can hear the inexperience in their calls. it's so formulaic and boring. all the color guys go to the same broadcast school.. whatever they call the training when guys go straight from the sport to the booth.... and it shows.  they all sound exactly the same.   the same narratives, the same shtick, cadence, etc. it's boring listening to them fumbling through canned anecdotes and pre-packaged one-liners.

their depth of knowledge seems to be lacking, too.  maybe because it's being dumbed down for the American audience? i dunno.

when listening to the experienced guys calling EPL games, or even the non-Americans at the World Cup, there's a totally different rhythm to the call. they aren't constantly talking, trying to fill every single second with conversation. they let the game breathe. they talk about individual players club play. about their previous performances in other tournaments, etc. they feel more familiar with the game. more certain in their knowledge. they're discussing soccer history, players fitness, contracts, transfers, etc.   it feels like you're more immersed in the experience. 

listening to American soccer calls is like overhearing some guy at the bar explaining the game to his wife while she reads Cosmo and yells at the kids.

Interesting.  I think most people here would have agreed with this 10-15 years ago.  Style aside, I feel like US announcers are really up on the game anymore though -- it's gotten so much easier to follow than it used to be.

Also, if you like color watch Ray Hudson call a Barcelona game or two.

 

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8 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

i'm having a hard time listening to the announcers on US games.  

when compared to the guys calling European (etc.) games it's a totally different experience. 

you can hear the inexperience in their calls. it's so formulaic and boring. all the color guys go to the same broadcast school.. whatever they call the training when guys go straight from the sport to the booth.... and it shows.  they all sound exactly the same.   the same narratives, the same shtick, cadence, etc. it's boring listening to them fumbling through canned anecdotes and pre-packaged one-liners.

their depth of knowledge seems to be lacking, too.  maybe because it's being dumbed down for the American audience? i dunno.

 

when listening to the experienced guys calling EPL games, or even the non-Americans at the World Cup, there's a totally different rhythm to the call. they aren't constantly talking, trying to fill every single second with conversation. they let the game breathe. they talk about individual players club play. about their previous performances in other tournaments, etc. they feel more familiar with the game. more certain in their knowledge. they're discussing soccer history, players fitness, contracts, transfers, etc.   it feels like you're more immersed in the experience. 

i don't feel like i'm really learning anything about the game or players that isn't obvious on the surface to anyone who just happens to turn in that may have zero contact with the sport.

 

listening to American soccer calls is like overhearing some guy at the bar explaining the game to his wife while she reads Cosmo and yells at the kids.

 

 

Damn.  Excellent post.

...I don't mean that in a disparaging way about "Our Soccer", just that I agree with your observation...

Edited by Kafka
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Yeah, I don't agree with any of that about American announcers.  I don't think we've found our best pairing yet, but I don't think Ian Darke (I will go to my grave saying that "Go Go USA!" is one of the worst calls of a big sports moment ever) is any better than John Strong.  And I don't think that Macca or (for God's sake) Ray Hudson are more informative than Taylor Twellman.  Slapdash is the expert on annoying British commentary tics, but once we started using American guys who have come up calling the game, I think the Americans have done fine.

We all made fun of J.P. Dellacamera 15 years ago.  Now, he's really, really good imo.  He should be.  He's been doing it a long time.  I do think that most ESPN pairings have better chemistry than the Fox pairings.  But that's true whether it's a British or an American team. 

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16 minutes ago, Kafka said:

Damn.  Excellent post.

Agreed.

 

17 minutes ago, wdcrob said:

Interesting.  I think most people here would have agreed with this 10-15 years ago.  Style aside, I feel like US announcers are really up on the game anymore though -- it's gotten so much easier to follow than it used to be.

Also, if you like color watch Ray Hudson call a Barcelona game or two.

 

I agree with him now.  But mostly on the players turned commentators.  The actual announcers arent to bad.

Unfortunately tomorrow's US game gets the wonder that is Landon Donovan.  No personality, grudge vs the US and absolutely unlistenable.  Twellman is also horrendous.  Maybe its the concussions but I constantly have to question whether he played the game at all.

And Lalas?  He is too busy following the ESPN model (yes hes on fox now) of say something stupid to create debate.  Haven't heard enough of Howard yet but he seemed decent.  JP Dellacamara has improved and is bearable IMO.

I am also critical of the EPL announcers during the season.  Too many times they say something stupid just to say something.  But would still rather listen to them then LD or Twellman.

Are they improving? Sure.  

Edited by B Maverick
edited to expand on points
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Just now, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Yeah, I don't agree with any of that about American announcers.  I don't think we've found our best pairing yet, but I don't think Ian Darke (I will go to my grave saying that "Go Go USA!" is one of the worst calls of a big sports moment ever) is any better than John Strong.  And I don't think that Macca or (for God's sake) Ray Hudson are more informative than Taylor Twellman.  Slapdash is the expert on annoying British commentary tics, but once we started using American guys who have come up calling the game, I think the Americans have done fine.

We all made fun of J.P. Dellacamera 15 years ago.  Now, he's really, really good imo.  He should be.  He's been doing it a long time.  I do think that most ESPN pairings have better chemistry than the Fox pairings.  But that's true whether it's a British or an American team. 

Admittedly, I don't know enough about American commentators, so I shouldn't have commented at all.  It's just that I get the same vibe as Furley...probably because of my lack of context.

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14 minutes ago, wdcrob said:

Interesting.  I think most people here would have agreed with this 10-15 years ago.  Style aside, I feel like US announcers are really up on the game anymore though -- it's gotten so much easier to follow than it used to be.

Also, if you like color watch Ray Hudson call a Barcelona game or two.

 

maybe their knowledge is deeper now than in 2000 but they still all have the same..... presentation.  they look & sound churned out of the same "generic announcer" factory.

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I think there's kind of a natural American soccer inferiority complex.  Especially among fans.  That's why you find a very vocal segment of American soccer fans who are virulently anti-MLS, think Alexi Lalas is the anti-Christ, and act like Landon Donovan murdered their babies because he didn't stick it out at Leverkeusen. 

 

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We all agree that Gus Johnson was bad.  The thing is, he got worse.  I thought his first call wasn't terrible.  He got worse and worse.

But he also faced some really stupid criticism.  Like for using the term "on-frame" for a shot on goal.  Nobody flips a lid when British announcers use "just about" in a way that's fundamentally different than Americans use it.  We figure out what they mean.

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5 minutes ago, Kafka said:

Admittedly, I don't know enough about American commentators, so I shouldn't have commented at all.  It's just that I get the same vibe as Furley...probably because of my lack of context.

i don't think there's anything wrong with having an opinion about the sport or its announcers just because you're not a zealot :shrug:

the ESPNification of the calls annoys me is all

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I will agree that Lalas, Wynalda, Cobi Jones and probably some others I'm forgetting really aren't very good as color guys in the booth.  But that's just a numbers thing IMO.  Instead of having 1000s of former players and getting to pick the best of them, we have like 13 guys to choose from.  Maybe 14 if you ignore the fact that Donovan didn't stick it out at Leverkusen.

Edited by wdcrob
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Just now, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I think there's kind of a natural American soccer inferiority complex.  Especially among fans.  That's why you find a very vocal segment of American soccer fans who are virulently anti-MLS, think Alexi Lalas is the anti-Christ, and act like Landon Donovan murdered their babies because he didn't stick it out at Leverkeusen. 

 

:unsure::hey::blush::bowtie::topcat::bag::loco::wall:...but then again, I'm self-loathing about pretty much everything.... WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR SOCCER ALL THOSE YEARS WHEN WE WERE YOUNG, DAMNIT!!

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8 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I think there's kind of a natural American soccer inferiority complex.  Especially among fans.  That's why you find a very vocal segment of American soccer fans who are virulently anti-MLS, think Alexi Lalas is the anti-Christ, and act like Landon Donovan murdered their babies because he didn't stick it out at Leverkeusen. 

 

Thats not the only reason I dont like LD...... :scared:

and I wouldnt say Lalas is the anti-crist, just dont like his espn ways. ....

 

Although you are probably right in general.  

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5 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

i don't think there's anything wrong with having an opinion about the sport or its announcers just because you're not a zealot :shrug:

the ESPNification of the calls annoys me is all

Agreed.  Me, not a zealot...kicking a "rock" around for nothing...

Edited by Kafka
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2 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

i don't think there's anything wrong with having an opinion about the sport or its announcers just because you're not a zealot :shrug:

the ESPNification of the calls annoys me is all

Of course there's noting wrong with having an opinion.  A majority of soccer zealots in this country probably agree with you.  I'm the minority on this one. 

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I'm not sure I really see most of things with American announcers other than the comment that they feel the need to talk more whereas announcers from other nations are more likely to sit in silence at times and let the game play out.  I don't necessarily find that a bad thing but it is the one big noticeable difference that stood out in Furley's post.

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1 minute ago, B Maverick said:

is a zealot the new eruo-snob?

Euro-snobs are a subspecies.  I'm a zealot but am not a euro-snob (anymore).  For most of the life of the soccer thread, I probably was.  But eventually I saw more MLS games and began to enjoy most of them for what they are.  I don't know if the LA Galaxy could beat Norwich 3 out of 10 times, or five out of 10 times.  I do know that I'd rather watch them play (and the Norwich could use a player like Robbie Keane).  I still find DC United excruciating, but I figure that Ben Olsen just hates me. 

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Euro-snobs are a subspecies.  I'm a zealot but am not a euro-snob (anymore).  For most of the life of the soccer thread, I probably was.  But eventually I saw more MLS games and began to enjoy most of them for what they are.  I don't know if the LA Galaxy could beat Norwich 3 out of 10 times, or five out of 10 times.  I do know that I'd rather watch them play (and the Norwich could use a player like Robbie Keane).  I still find DC United excruciating, but I figure that Ben Olsen just hates me. 

Norwich is in Europe?

Edited by Kafka
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5 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Euro-snobs are a subspecies.  I'm a zealot but am not a euro-snob (anymore).  For most of the life of the soccer thread, I probably was.  But eventually I saw more MLS games and began to enjoy most of them for what they are.  I don't know if the LA Galaxy could beat Norwich 3 out of 10 times, or five out of 10 times.  I do know that I'd rather watch them play (and the Norwich could use a player like Robbie Keane).  I still find DC United excruciating, but I figure that Ben Olsen just hates me. 

I will admit to being a Euro-Snob, not sure if a full fledged Zealot.  I do find MLS frustrating to watch. Maybe its due to some pent up anger at not trying out (It started six months after I finished up playing in college).  I went to the Galaxy v SJ game a few weeks ago.  Enjoyed it.  Great atmosphere, just frustrating to watch

And most teams could use a player like Robbie Keane

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21 minutes ago, The Gator said:

I like John Strong

I think some of it is the material in front of them as well.

Darke is in general a better caller than Strong but I would take Strong 100 out of 100 times for a US game because Strong knows more about the material.  Even after years of calling US games Darke still seems like he is just reading facts off a sheet of paper instead of living the game in the country like Strong has.

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Just now, Sinn Fein said:

Its called Commentator College

I do relate to this, and I think it does happen with color guys.  I've said before that I really enjoyed Brad Friedel calling a CL game with Martin Tyler.  I think Friedel is pretty bad with Strong.  And my only explanation is that I think that FOX producers are way up in Friedel's head (the only thing funnier than Friedel's silly quasi-English accent is listening to him try to suppress it now). If ESPN's color guys are better (and I think they are, English or American), I imagine that's the reason. 

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40 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

i'm having a hard time listening to the announcers on US games.  

when compared to the guys calling European (etc.) games it's a totally different experience. 

you can hear the inexperience in their calls. it's so formulaic and boring. all the color guys go to the same broadcast school.. whatever they call the training when guys go straight from the sport to the booth.... and it shows.  they all sound exactly the same.   the same narratives, the same shtick, cadence, etc. it's boring listening to them fumbling through canned anecdotes and pre-packaged one-liners.

their depth of knowledge seems to be lacking, too.  maybe because it's being dumbed down for the American audience? i dunno.

 

when listening to the experienced guys calling EPL games, or even the non-Americans at the World Cup, there's a totally different rhythm to the call. they aren't constantly talking, trying to fill every single second with conversation. they let the game breathe. they talk about individual players club play. about their previous performances in other tournaments, etc. they feel more familiar with the game. more certain in their knowledge. they're discussing soccer history, players fitness, contracts, transfers, etc.   it feels like you're more immersed in the experience. 

i don't feel like i'm really learning anything about the game or players that isn't obvious on the surface to anyone who just happens to turn in that may have zero contact with the sport.

 

listening to American soccer calls is like overhearing some guy at the bar explaining the game to his wife while she reads Cosmo and yells at the kids.

 

 

you might be interested in this story to see what really bad is :)

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/743166-2016-summer-football-tournaments-wales-fans-wail-while-sturridge-whirls/?do=findComment&comment=19170968

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47 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

i'm having a hard time listening to the announcers on US games.  

when compared to the guys calling European (etc.) games it's a totally different experience. 

you can hear the inexperience in their calls. it's so formulaic and boring. all the color guys go to the same broadcast school.. whatever they call the training when guys go straight from the sport to the booth.... and it shows.  they all sound exactly the same.   the same narratives, the same shtick, cadence, etc. it's boring listening to them fumbling through canned anecdotes and pre-packaged one-liners.

their depth of knowledge seems to be lacking, too.  maybe because it's being dumbed down for the American audience? i dunno.

 

when listening to the experienced guys calling EPL games, or even the non-Americans at the World Cup, there's a totally different rhythm to the call. they aren't constantly talking, trying to fill every single second with conversation. they let the game breathe. they talk about individual players club play. about their previous performances in other tournaments, etc. they feel more familiar with the game. more certain in their knowledge. they're discussing soccer history, players fitness, contracts, transfers, etc.   it feels like you're more immersed in the experience. 

i don't feel like i'm really learning anything about the game or players that isn't obvious on the surface to anyone who just happens to turn in that may have zero contact with the sport.

 

listening to American soccer calls is like overhearing some guy at the bar explaining the game to his wife while she reads Cosmo and yells at the kids.

 

 

its COSMOS. get with it, newb.

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20 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I think there's kind of a natural American soccer inferiority complex.  Especially among fans.  That's why you find a very vocal segment of American soccer fans who are virulently anti-MLS, think Alexi Lalas is the anti-Christ, and act like Landon Donovan murdered their babies because he didn't stick it out at Leverkeusen. 

 

I don't put enough effort into being anti-MLS.  I cant really be anti- if I don't really care enough to watch it regularly.  I catch a game now and then, but no real rooting interest to keep my attention.  I suppose I could pick a team to follow, just nothing making me want to do that right now.

 

Alexi Lalas is the anti-christ.  No shame in acknowledging that.  Having said that, I think part of his draw to the networks is that he is controversial and that helps drive ratings/awareness.  So I am fine leaving him on there just to give people like me (and everyone else tuning in) a reason to ##### and moan.  When people stop #####ing and moaning - then the networks should worry.

 

Donovan - I probably get grouped into this a bit unfairly.  I happened to be ok with Klinsmann's decision to drop Donovan, but still recognize him as the best US player ever.  I also found his commentary the other night to be pretty, pretty good.  So, there is that.

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18 hours ago, Capella said:

How does somebody know who the #2 team in Germany is but not the Copa? 

Probably the same guy who wants MLS to go single-table because "no other league in the world" has divisions and playoffs. You know that guy.

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3 minutes ago, CBusAlex said:

Probably the same guy who wants MLS to go single-table because "no other league in the world" has divisions and playoffs. You know that guy.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:...Maryland is a beautiful state, & Southampton is a beautiful club.  Vouched.

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hey furls... I'll check in on ESPN every now and then because I lack imagination, but for the most part I get all my soccer news right here. 

 

you can watch just about any league in the world on TV here in the US, and every US game is televised front and center. I can't help you with the announcers, but I agree with you about the US playbyplay guys and typically mute or turn down the volume so I don't have to listen to them. I get tired of them miscalling the action on the field- and sadly it still happens a lot, even with the more knowledgeable ones. that said, there a lot of US color guys who really know their #### who I do enjoy hearing from, providing the professional player's viewpoint of what's just gone down or about to happen in ways that. but the brits do have a better way with words and sense of the rhythm of the game.

as was mentioned, 17yo pusilic isn't exactly an unknown quantity if you follow US soccer in the last year or so- a US kid rising to the first team of a German powerhouse as a teenager? and getting playing time (and a couple of goals to boot)? he's right there if you've been following the US. but there are definitely guys who these other peeps in here are aware of that are rising players that  maybe aren't in front of the soccer pages, but worth checking out... pretty much similar to college athletes. you don't have to go anywhere to get the it=info on these guys other than here, IMO.

 

I would recommend latching onto an EPL or German team (depending on what networks you have for coverage)... because La Liga is the worst (and I don't get BeIN). Once you randomly pick a team to follow, you'll start to get a better sense of the game locally and even the globally as they fight their way through a 40game season (not including cups)- which you'll be able to pull back to your fandom of the USMNT. it's kinda hard to route only for the USMNT- they just don't play enough games to get any traction with them outside of these kind of tournaments which are infrequent and tbh nervewracking. what's worked for me over the years is to realize that being a fan of the USMNT is a process... and I latch onto some kind of hope that before I die they'll begin to flex some giant hulk-smash muscles.

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37 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

I think some of it is the material in front of them as well.

Darke is in general a better caller than Strong but I would take Strong 100 out of 100 times for a US game because Strong knows more about the material.  Even after years of calling US games Darke still seems like he is just reading facts off a sheet of paper instead of living the game in the country like Strong has.

Twellman doesn't help at all. He's much better with Macca

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2 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Just stopped by to say... 

 

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! WE'RE GOING TO CRUSH ECUADOR! F ECUADOR!! THEY'RE ECUADOR FOR GOD'S SAKE! YAAAAAAAAAAA-HOOOOOO! 

US 3 Ecuador 0. Book it! 

Slim Pickens?

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