barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I agree it will be a Coleman or Freeman role. Hot take.
Just joking but we are all assuming McKinnon is signed to be the Freeman, right? And Breida the Coleman? Is that too big an assumption or is it fair?
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RB Jerick McKinnon, KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Just joking but we are all assuming McKinnon is signed to be the Freeman, right? And Breida the Coleman? Is that too big an assumption or is it fair?
bostonfred
Footballguy
McKinnon was sub 4 ypc last year, but he had a lot of bad games. Might be a scheme issue but he really only had 4 games with decent per carry averages.
I do think he'll get a lot of opportunity to catch the ball like Freeman, but breida could be the better runner. He averaged almost a full yard more per carry and caught 21 balls in limited duty, plus he has a year head start in a system where shanahan says it can take running backs over a year to learn.
Both guys are smallish.
I haven't seen the details of the contract but if they spent that much they probably aren't looking to add an early down back - I wouldn't be surprised if the add someone later.
For day one I'd probably lean McKinnon 60/40 split over breida with more receiving work, but it could go either way. Coleman was drafted higher than and later than Freeman.
I do think he'll get a lot of opportunity to catch the ball like Freeman, but breida could be the better runner. He averaged almost a full yard more per carry and caught 21 balls in limited duty, plus he has a year head start in a system where shanahan says it can take running backs over a year to learn.
Both guys are smallish.
I haven't seen the details of the contract but if they spent that much they probably aren't looking to add an early down back - I wouldn't be surprised if the add someone later.
For day one I'd probably lean McKinnon 60/40 split over breida with more receiving work, but it could go either way. Coleman was drafted higher than and later than Freeman.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
McKinnon is listed on Rotoworld as 5'9" and 205 lbs. Freeman is 5'8" and listed at 206 lbs. I've heard mention of JM playing closer to 215, though.
Everytime I saw McKinnon get a carry last year, there were one or two defenders on his ### the instant the ball hit him. I know people have said a lot about his YPC but I swear he didn't have a chance on a *lot* of Vikes plays.
Everytime I saw McKinnon get a carry last year, there were one or two defenders on his ### the instant the ball hit him. I know people have said a lot about his YPC but I swear he didn't have a chance on a *lot* of Vikes plays.
Not my assumption. I feel safe thinking McKinnon's floor is Coleman type of his usage but his floor may be his reality.
I'd add if it boils down to these two as the primary RB's I'd tend to put McKinnon on that Freeman type of usage and I'd NOT want to move him for that pick 8-10 range I referenced earlier but it's early and the Shanahan's are kind of like king makers of seemingly out of no where or lightly regarded RB's. Which is actually what excites me about this landing spot for McKinnon but I'm expecting some more comp coming.
Good point on size. Freeman to my eye runs with considerable more purpose and power but if bench press is any kind of measure of power McKinnon threw down 32 at his combine.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Speaking of Sparq...Breida was the tops in 2017 draft 141.7
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Try n flip him now before they draft someone.....
BigJim®
Footballguy
I get the instinct, but curious why SF would overpay (my opinion) a RB like McKinnon if they planned to diminish him behind a rookie? That defies logic, no?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Niners haven't been very active filling holes in FA either, they are going to need those draft picks to address their interior O'line, corners (Sherman is nice depth at this point only), LBers and WRs.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Google lists JM at 216. ESPN article from last June said he bulked up to 212. Breida meanwhile is 190. I suppose Breida could be on the block but I thought they really liked him. It would seem strange to have him and JM fill the same role. I'm sure they'll draft a rookie or two, and Joe Williams will get a chance to compete. But otherwise JM is the new Freeman as I see it. That's a prediction and a bet. I otherwise agree that a Coleman role is his floor. But I think that would leave Breida out to dry which I don't believe is going to be the case.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Because he isnt that good...despite his sparq score and all that....he is better served as the lightning in a rbbc...i know shanny jr likes joe williams alot and they have brieda...those guys feel JAGish to me
I think the whole backfield at this point is very JAGish...and they have a weak oline to begin with
bostonfred
Footballguy
Freeman and Coleman weren't exactly considered studs until they succeeded in the Shanahan offense.
Shanahan wants one cut backs with good acceleration and vision and who can catch the ball. He doesn't need power backs because he wants the zone blocking to keep your jersey clean if you pick the right hole. He does need you to be able to stretch the play and accelerate when you find your opening.
(That's probably also why a lot of his dad's backs had acl injuries. They had to plant that leg down hard and turn on a dime, and strength and conditioning coaches were still figuring a lot of things out).
Breida is a good fit for that. Mckinnon probably will be too. Williams, we'll see but I'm not holding my breath.
Shanahan wants one cut backs with good acceleration and vision and who can catch the ball. He doesn't need power backs because he wants the zone blocking to keep your jersey clean if you pick the right hole. He does need you to be able to stretch the play and accelerate when you find your opening.
(That's probably also why a lot of his dad's backs had acl injuries. They had to plant that leg down hard and turn on a dime, and strength and conditioning coaches were still figuring a lot of things out).
Breida is a good fit for that. Mckinnon probably will be too. Williams, we'll see but I'm not holding my breath.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
ok keep in mind I'm consolidating as I had 6 2018 1st rd rookie picks. I made the following trade todaymenobrown said:
FFPC
I gave Mckinnon and 1.10
I got Christian MCcaffrey
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Will be interesting to see contract details. Paraag Marathe (SF contract / cap guy) usually structures these very well. Sherman was originally reported to be getting 39 million but much different once you look at the details.
Some interesting insight:
https://twitter.com/BetterRivals/status/973914256658849792
https://twitter.com/SageRosenfels18/status/973978535093329920
Pass catching was Hyde's biggest weakness and is one of the key elements Shanahan needs out of a RB. McKinnon being in a scheme that fits his skill-set will be fun to watch. McKinnon, Breida, and Williams (if he gets it together) will make for an explosive group. Add in Juice and I am excited to see what Shanahan does with these guys.
Niners have a ton of cap space and are set-up well for the future so that shouldn't really be an issue.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree it shouldn't be an issue for SF. I am guessing that they front load the contract so they could get out of the contract after the first two seasons should they want to, but by that time McKinnons contract becomes a bargain relative to the market as most of the guaranteed money is paid in the first season as part of a roster bonus or something like that.
It is remarkable however that McKinnon is currently paid this high relative to the other RB in the league. It also gives some context of comparison between McKinnon and Hyde that McKinnon was paid more than Hyde and Cleveland certainly does have the cap space to pay him more, but he didn't get as big a contract. Similarly Dion Lewis got about $5 million a year contract with the Titans. McKinnon seems to be valued more than these two RB and a lot of people may have thought Hyde was a better RB than McKinnon.
Further context is that Latavius Murray got a similar contract to Hyde and Lewis last season, but McKinnon was able to get more money than Murray did as well.
As a Vikings fan I know McKinnon is a very good RB. The money just further supports that view.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Same here... But those stats listed by SF409ers were pretty good. Guy is only going to be 26. Can pass block very well. Can catch very well. Ridiculous athlete. Can run between the tackles reasonably well. Homerun hitter. Maybe NFL teams took notice of all those factors.
ZWK
Footballguy
McKinnon blew up the combine in 2014, including a 4.41 forty, but the fastest speed that he's been clocked at on the field is just 19.53 mph which is slower than Carlos Hyde, Mark Ingram, Frank Gore, or Isaiah Crowell.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I wonder a bit about this as I would say one of McKinnon's weaknesses is his vision and spatial awareness. He played in a primarily outside zone blocking system last season, not that different than what Shanahan runs. He is good and I respect the coaches view on him as being a fit for their offense.
McKinnon is good at a lot of things, just not sure about him being a perfect fit. He may have been ill suited for some of the power style runs they were using with Peterson earlier in McKinnon's career. It is really difficult to say as the blocking was better in 2017 than it had been the previous two seasons due to better personnel on the offensive line. So it wasn't just scheme that made McKinnon play better in 2017.
I am not sure I see McKinnon as a 300 touch RB but he could likely be good with 200-250 touches. That seems possible and the money sort of suggests that is what they may be looking for from him. McKinnon has had just over 200 touches the last two seasons with the Vikings.
I didn't think Matt Breida really fit the ZBS that well either. So many different RB have had success in this system. I think both McKinnon and Breida have some deficiencies in seeing cut back lanes and may leave yards on the field, but otherwise capable RBs.
Plus RB pay is creeping up. Freeman big deal last offseason, Bell getting tagged again.
Dion and McKinnon are not top 10 paid RB's right now because their teams likely value them as top 10 RB's. They are top 10 paid RB's because they had the good timing to be UFA's this year.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
This is not complicated: freak athlete, Shanahan system, paid like a top 10 back. Even if you believe this is similar to Atlanta, he is the Freeman role. That makes him a top 10 back. He can catch, he can pass block, he’s great at breaking tackles and the scheme is going to serve him very nicely. Rarely do you get as perfect a match as this for FA. Only way you should flip him is if you’re getting top 6 value in this draft or equivalent.
zamboni
Footballguy
RB pay has indeed gone up, but Hyde and perhaps Crowell (contract size not yet disclosed) did not get as much money as Lewis and McKinnon did. So it's not entirely about timing.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Did he really play better in 2017? He averaged 4.9 and 5.1 ypc in his first 2 seasons as a CoP behind Peterson. When asked to carry the ball more in 2016 and 2017 he averaged 3.4 and 3.8 ypc. The latter of those came behind the same line that Dalvin Cook was running like Herschel Walker behind.
chinawildman
Footballguy
To me that says dual purpose RBs (ones that are mismatches in the passing game) get paid a premium.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/973909347171434497
Looks like more than 2 teams had offers out to him. For whatever reason seems McKinnon was highly coveted in free agency.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This would be the area that I have questions about McKinnon. He did not have as good vision as Dalvin Cook for similar cut back lanes in the ZBS as he will be asked to find in SF too.
McKinnon does pretty much everything else well. He can break tackles, runs with good power and pad level, has good burst and speed, can catch the ball well and good in pass protection.
He just doesn't have the same level of instinct, vision or awareness of Cook or other RB in my opinion. Otherwise he is a very good RB.
I don't think the yards per carry mean very much in the small sample size. In 2016 it is the most unlike his other seasons and that is because of how bad the Vikings offensive line was at run blocking that season. Historically bad that year. McKinnon was injured at some point during the season as well but then played better towards the end of the year when fully healthy again. Schedule may have eased up as part of that as well. You can look at a season or half a season or 4 game samples and none of those samples are large enough in my opinion for yards per carry to have much meaning.
Jerrick McKinnon is a career 4 ypc player at this time on 474 rushing attempts. This is slightly below the average of 4.2 for the league but good enough. I trust the career numbers more for him because he hasn't been fully featured yet in an offense. 200 touches is still a lot but there aren't many games where they just had McKinnon make plays from start to finish of the game. He was always gets by another RB or 2nd in opportunities to another RB for the majority of his games.
Yep. Looks like Jets were in the mix.
https://twitter.com/CamInman/status/974001746665029632
The premium in pay is all about his pass catching ability. Hyde was one of the worst pass catching backs and for Shanahan this is a must have for his system to fully function.
Another interesting tidbit: https://twitter.com/BetterRivals/status/973915068432896000
Think this why they have been quiet on the WR front. Other than the fact that they like the guys they already have, they view both the FB and RB as an extension to the WR corp. They were limited with this last year due to bad QB play early on and Hyde not being very effective in the pass game. When Jimmy G took over Juszczyk was much more effective. Expect they will use McKinnon early and often in the passing game.
He was a QB when he came into college and split time there his first two years, so his relative lack of experience shows here IMO
Not to mention Breida's strength in the passing game too. This is an athletic backfield, it will be exciting to see what Shanahan draws up
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am a fan of Jerrick McKinnon. I have seen him make some improvement each season he has been in the league.
I hope SF gives him the opportunity to be the man. I think he could do very well. Wish the Vikings could have kept him over Latavius Murray, but I understand McKinnon wanting his shot to be the top RB. He would never get that chance with Dalvin Cook ahead of him.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
He’ll have gotten more money than any other RB in the league over the course of this season and last season. He was offered a 14m per year deal last offseason, I have no sympathy for Bell’s “plight” or peoples defense of it.
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matttyl
Footballguy
Trying to understand this massive contract he got, and really how it breaks down. So he's getting a $2m signing bonus, $4.2m year one (guaranteed) salary, AND a $5.5m roster bonus due in just a few days? So 11.7m in year one alone?! Then, if they want him the 2nd year it's "only" an additional $3.7m? So more in the first two years than Hyde is going to get total over 3?
FF Wiseguy
Footballguy
In my PPR dynasty, I traded Luck and McKinnon for Wilson and 1.08 rookie pick. I had trouble moving McKinnon during his good games last year, and just don't think the trade market was going to get too hot for him in the pre-season. Plus, moving Luck helps me diversify, as I also have TY and Doyle, and am just discouraged by that whole situation.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
PPR keep 3 + 1 rookie with no one in the first 3 rounds eligible to be kept. I've received a high 5th round pick offer for JK so far. I think that's way too low at this point. I'd move him in a heartbeat for a 3rd round pick.
strong
Footballguy
his rookie year he wasn't really a change of pace back. peterson whooped his kid and mckinnon became the guy between the 20s until he hurt his ankle.
what's his nose would get all the touches inside the 10, though.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Coach Kyle Shanahan said he got "lost" watching Jerick McKinnon's game tape before the 49ers signed him to a four-year, $30 million deal.
"There's so many things I liked about him, just visualizing how I would use him and the stuff that we would do," Shanahan said. Shanahan has a history of orchestrating high-octane rushing offenses and is particularly enamored by McKinnon's passing-game skills. "What is a huge bonus on him is when you talk about the pass game," Shanahan said. "When it comes to separating and beating linebackers and safeties in man-to-man coverage, I definitely think he’s an issue for teams."
NSFW Analysis
"There's so many things I liked about him, just visualizing how I would use him and the stuff that we would do," Shanahan said. Shanahan has a history of orchestrating high-octane rushing offenses and is particularly enamored by McKinnon's passing-game skills. "What is a huge bonus on him is when you talk about the pass game," Shanahan said. "When it comes to separating and beating linebackers and safeties in man-to-man coverage, I definitely think he’s an issue for teams."
NSFW Analysis
