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Isaiah Crowell (3 Viewers)

Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?

 
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
Rimez said:
emmitt smith couldnt run behind that oline. if youre fumbling multiple times in practice while your rb competition puts on a clinic.... then youre not going to get the chance to dodge tacklers in the backfield on gameday.

you can hold him in dynasty and keep your fingers crossed but it isnt like tate is an old man on his way out, and west isnt going away. i own tate but just dropped crowell cuz hey why even handcuff that running game? it stinks and there are no cutback lanes. tate/crowell/west are all nearly the exact same size yet tate is the fastest, has the best hands, waaaaaay stronger, smarter, and more experienced. if tate cant get it done then then i have 0 confidence in crowell with his plodding 4.6 speed doing any better, and there isnt clarity he would even get the job anyway.
Click to expand...
I am not certain any of those things are true.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain about hands or way stronger, but Tate ran a 4.43 40 at the combine (3rd fastest among a RB group that included Jahvid Best (4.35), CJ Spiller (4.37) and Ryan Mathews (4.45)) and was also a standout sprinter in track, running an 11.2 100 in HS. West ran a 4.54 40 at the combine. Crowell ran a 4.53 at the combine. Maybe he's lost a step, but Tate is or was most likely the fastest of the three.

In terms of hands, Tate had the most receptions of the three in college and averaged more receptions per game. He had 53 to West's 36 and Crowell's 26. However, he also played one more season than the other two. Tate averaged 1.13 receptions per game in college to West's .97 and Crowell's .74. That's not conclusive one way or the other as none of them got a lot of receptions and they all played in different offenses.

Your guess is as good as mine as to who the strongest is.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. There is also a difference between sprinting in your underwear and sprinting away from LBs & DBs in full pads.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I haven't been able to find those times yet for anyone.

But, (and again, unless he's lost a step or two) I'd bet Tate is just faster when you combine his track times with his other times that measure explosiveness. He blew West and Crowell away in each of the combine drills designed to measure agility and explosiveness. Tate's 3 cone speed of 6.91 seconds is excellent. His 4.12 short shuttle time is very good.

Tate's vertical jump was 40.5 inches compared to 33.5 and 38 for West and Crowell, respectively. A 40 inch vert is considered elite.

He also had a better broad jump at 124 inches. West was not far off at 120 inches and Crowell lagged behind at 117. 120 inches or better in the broad jump is considered elite.

I don't put much stock into the bench press to measure strength, but for those that do, Tate put up 26 reps on the bench, compared to 16 and 23 for West and Crowell, respectively.

At least in terms of measureables, Tate is a much better athlete than either West or Crowell (provided again, that he hasn't lost a step or two in the last few years, which he may have). And, thus far, the Browns clearly think he's a much better RB, too.
Click to expand...
I have been beating the "It's Tate's job" drum long and loud in this thread. I completely agree that he is the best RB on the Browns now, but I am just not certain it's because he is a better athlete. It's because he's the most complete and dependable player.

 
SameSongNDance said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
pbandy1 said:
Dropped him for Sims. Need to start someone desperately this week and Sims is actually in my flex. God help me.
Click to expand...
There has been Zero indication that Sims will even be activated this week let alone getting touches.

Pettine has already said, Crowell will get more touches against maybe his best matchup this year, the woeful Bucs who have thrown in the towel.

In response to the post a few up from this talking about 40 times, lol

Watch the tape folks, Crowell is better than the other two, and it isn't close.

Vision, explosiveness are the key here.

I wish I had him, but for those that do, he's at least a hold and probably a play this week.
Click to expand...
I have them both, but look up above. The numbers simply don't back that up.

And, I'm not speaking about him being a RB, which is obviously the most important thing here. Use your own judgment on that.

But, in terms of speed and explosiveness, which was the issue brought up above, Tate has the edge on Crowell and it isn't particularly close.
Click to expand...
I thought explosiveness was judged by vertical and broad jump. :shrug:
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It is when they are in their underwear but it's different when there are safeties bearing down on you from one direction and defensive linemen from the other.

 
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Chaka said:
SameSongNDance said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
pbandy1 said:
Dropped him for Sims. Need to start someone desperately this week and Sims is actually in my flex. God help me.
Click to expand...
There has been Zero indication that Sims will even be activated this week let alone getting touches.

Pettine has already said, Crowell will get more touches against maybe his best matchup this year, the woeful Bucs who have thrown in the towel.

In response to the post a few up from this talking about 40 times, lol

Watch the tape folks, Crowell is better than the other two, and it isn't close.

Vision, explosiveness are the key here.

I wish I had him, but for those that do, he's at least a hold and probably a play this week.
Click to expand...
I have them both, but look up above. The numbers simply don't back that up.

And, I'm not speaking about him being a RB, which is obviously the most important thing here. Use your own judgment on that.

But, in terms of speed and explosiveness, which was the issue brought up above, Tate has the edge on Crowell and it isn't particularly close.
Click to expand...
I thought explosiveness was judged by vertical and broad jump. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is when they are in their underwear but it's different when there are safeties bearing down on you from one direction and defensive linemen from the other.
Click to expand...
Also dont forget Tate has had a crap ton of injuries. That saps speed and agility away little by little. Veterans can usually make up for it with savvy, but it isn't that easy to just say Ben Tate is faster because of what he did in underwear 3 or 4 years ago.

 
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
Rimez said:
emmitt smith couldnt run behind that oline. if youre fumbling multiple times in practice while your rb competition puts on a clinic.... then youre not going to get the chance to dodge tacklers in the backfield on gameday.

you can hold him in dynasty and keep your fingers crossed but it isnt like tate is an old man on his way out, and west isnt going away. i own tate but just dropped crowell cuz hey why even handcuff that running game? it stinks and there are no cutback lanes. tate/crowell/west are all nearly the exact same size yet tate is the fastest, has the best hands, waaaaaay stronger, smarter, and more experienced. if tate cant get it done then then i have 0 confidence in crowell with his plodding 4.6 speed doing any better, and there isnt clarity he would even get the job anyway.
Click to expand...
I am not certain any of those things are true.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain about hands or way stronger, but Tate ran a 4.43 40 at the combine (3rd fastest among a RB group that included Jahvid Best (4.35), CJ Spiller (4.37) and Ryan Mathews (4.45)) and was also a standout sprinter in track, running an 11.2 100 in HS. West ran a 4.54 40 at the combine. Crowell ran a 4.53 at the combine. Maybe he's lost a step, but Tate is or was most likely the fastest of the three.

In terms of hands, Tate had the most receptions of the three in college and averaged more receptions per game. He had 53 to West's 36 and Crowell's 26. However, he also played one more season than the other two. Tate averaged 1.13 receptions per game in college to West's .97 and Crowell's .74. That's not conclusive one way or the other as none of them got a lot of receptions and they all played in different offenses.

Your guess is as good as mine as to who the strongest is.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. There is also a difference between sprinting in your underwear and sprinting away from LBs & DBs in full pads.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I haven't been able to find those times yet for anyone.

But, (and again, unless he's lost a step or two) I'd bet Tate is just faster when you combine his track times with his other times that measure explosiveness. He blew West and Crowell away in each of the combine drills designed to measure agility and explosiveness. Tate's 3 cone speed of 6.91 seconds is excellent. His 4.12 short shuttle time is very good.

Tate's vertical jump was 40.5 inches compared to 33.5 and 38 for West and Crowell, respectively. A 40 inch vert is considered elite.

He also had a better broad jump at 124 inches. West was not far off at 120 inches and Crowell lagged behind at 117. 120 inches or better in the broad jump is considered elite.

I don't put much stock into the bench press to measure strength, but for those that do, Tate put up 26 reps on the bench, compared to 16 and 23 for West and Crowell, respectively.

At least in terms of measureables, Tate is a much better athlete than either West or Crowell (provided again, that he hasn't lost a step or two in the last few years, which he may have). And, thus far, the Browns clearly think he's a much better RB, too.
Click to expand...
I have been beating the "It's Tate's job" drum long and loud in this thread. I completely agree that he is the best RB on the Browns now, but I am just not certain it's because he is a better athlete. It's because he's the most complete and dependable player.
Click to expand...
Neither am I and I've tried to make it clear that I am separating athletic measurables from being a good RB. But, he either is and/or was the better athlete between the three.

And, you don't last 4 years in the NFL as a RB unless some of those "underwear" measurables are translating to the football field.

 
rdrouyn said:
Also dont forget Tate has had a crap ton of injuries. That saps speed and agility away little by little. Veterans can usually make up for it with savvy, but it isn't that easy to just say Ben Tate is faster because of what he did in underwear 3 or 4 years ago.
Click to expand...
Was waiting for someone to mention this. Surprised it took so long, actually.

Sorry Taters, but 2014 Tate is not more explosive than 2014 Crowell. Doesn't mean he's gonna lose his job anytime soon, as there's a lot more to playing RB than explosiveness (e.g. ball security). RBBBC until Tate gets hurt.

 
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
Rimez said:
emmitt smith couldnt run behind that oline. if youre fumbling multiple times in practice while your rb competition puts on a clinic.... then youre not going to get the chance to dodge tacklers in the backfield on gameday.

you can hold him in dynasty and keep your fingers crossed but it isnt like tate is an old man on his way out, and west isnt going away. i own tate but just dropped crowell cuz hey why even handcuff that running game? it stinks and there are no cutback lanes. tate/crowell/west are all nearly the exact same size yet tate is the fastest, has the best hands, waaaaaay stronger, smarter, and more experienced. if tate cant get it done then then i have 0 confidence in crowell with his plodding 4.6 speed doing any better, and there isnt clarity he would even get the job anyway.
Click to expand...
I am not certain any of those things are true.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain about hands or way stronger, but Tate ran a 4.43 40 at the combine (3rd fastest among a RB group that included Jahvid Best (4.35), CJ Spiller (4.37) and Ryan Mathews (4.45)) and was also a standout sprinter in track, running an 11.2 100 in HS. West ran a 4.54 40 at the combine. Crowell ran a 4.53 at the combine. Maybe he's lost a step, but Tate is or was most likely the fastest of the three.

In terms of hands, Tate had the most receptions of the three in college and averaged more receptions per game. He had 53 to West's 36 and Crowell's 26. However, he also played one more season than the other two. Tate averaged 1.13 receptions per game in college to West's .97 and Crowell's .74. That's not conclusive one way or the other as none of them got a lot of receptions and they all played in different offenses.

Your guess is as good as mine as to who the strongest is.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. There is also a difference between sprinting in your underwear and sprinting away from LBs & DBs in full pads.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I haven't been able to find those times yet for anyone.

But, (and again, unless he's lost a step or two) I'd bet Tate is just faster when you combine his track times with his other times that measure explosiveness. He blew West and Crowell away in each of the combine drills designed to measure agility and explosiveness. Tate's 3 cone speed of 6.91 seconds is excellent. His 4.12 short shuttle time is very good.

Tate's vertical jump was 40.5 inches compared to 33.5 and 38 for West and Crowell, respectively. A 40 inch vert is considered elite.

He also had a better broad jump at 124 inches. West was not far off at 120 inches and Crowell lagged behind at 117. 120 inches or better in the broad jump is considered elite.

I don't put much stock into the bench press to measure strength, but for those that do, Tate put up 26 reps on the bench, compared to 16 and 23 for West and Crowell, respectively.

At least in terms of measureables, Tate is a much better athlete than either West or Crowell (provided again, that he hasn't lost a step or two in the last few years, which he may have). And, thus far, the Browns clearly think he's a much better RB, too.
Click to expand...
I have been beating the "It's Tate's job" drum long and loud in this thread. I completely agree that he is the best RB on the Browns now, but I am just not certain it's because he is a better athlete. It's because he's the most complete and dependable player.
Click to expand...
Neither am I and I've tried to make it clear that I am separating athletic measurables from being a good RB. But, he either is and/or was the better athlete between the three.

And, you don't last 4 years in the NFL as a RB unless some of those "underwear" measurables are translating to the football field.
Click to expand...
You can if you are playing caddie to one of the two best RBs in the NFL of the past 5 years and/or are spending your time on the training table.

ETA: But clearly he has talent. Not arguing against that notion.

 
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Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
Rimez said:
emmitt smith couldnt run behind that oline. if youre fumbling multiple times in practice while your rb competition puts on a clinic.... then youre not going to get the chance to dodge tacklers in the backfield on gameday.

you can hold him in dynasty and keep your fingers crossed but it isnt like tate is an old man on his way out, and west isnt going away. i own tate but just dropped crowell cuz hey why even handcuff that running game? it stinks and there are no cutback lanes. tate/crowell/west are all nearly the exact same size yet tate is the fastest, has the best hands, waaaaaay stronger, smarter, and more experienced. if tate cant get it done then then i have 0 confidence in crowell with his plodding 4.6 speed doing any better, and there isnt clarity he would even get the job anyway.
Click to expand...
I am not certain any of those things are true.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain about hands or way stronger, but Tate ran a 4.43 40 at the combine (3rd fastest among a RB group that included Jahvid Best (4.35), CJ Spiller (4.37) and Ryan Mathews (4.45)) and was also a standout sprinter in track, running an 11.2 100 in HS. West ran a 4.54 40 at the combine. Crowell ran a 4.53 at the combine. Maybe he's lost a step, but Tate is or was most likely the fastest of the three.

In terms of hands, Tate had the most receptions of the three in college and averaged more receptions per game. He had 53 to West's 36 and Crowell's 26. However, he also played one more season than the other two. Tate averaged 1.13 receptions per game in college to West's .97 and Crowell's .74. That's not conclusive one way or the other as none of them got a lot of receptions and they all played in different offenses.

Your guess is as good as mine as to who the strongest is.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. There is also a difference between sprinting in your underwear and sprinting away from LBs & DBs in full pads.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I haven't been able to find those times yet for anyone.

But, (and again, unless he's lost a step or two) I'd bet Tate is just faster when you combine his track times with his other times that measure explosiveness. He blew West and Crowell away in each of the combine drills designed to measure agility and explosiveness. Tate's 3 cone speed of 6.91 seconds is excellent. His 4.12 short shuttle time is very good.

Tate's vertical jump was 40.5 inches compared to 33.5 and 38 for West and Crowell, respectively. A 40 inch vert is considered elite.

He also had a better broad jump at 124 inches. West was not far off at 120 inches and Crowell lagged behind at 117. 120 inches or better in the broad jump is considered elite.

I don't put much stock into the bench press to measure strength, but for those that do, Tate put up 26 reps on the bench, compared to 16 and 23 for West and Crowell, respectively.

At least in terms of measureables, Tate is a much better athlete than either West or Crowell (provided again, that he hasn't lost a step or two in the last few years, which he may have). And, thus far, the Browns clearly think he's a much better RB, too.
Click to expand...
I have been beating the "It's Tate's job" drum long and loud in this thread. I completely agree that he is the best RB on the Browns now, but I am just not certain it's because he is a better athlete. It's because he's the most complete and dependable player.
Click to expand...
Neither am I and I've tried to make it clear that I am separating athletic measurables from being a good RB. But, he either is and/or was the better athlete between the three.

And, you don't last 4 years in the NFL as a RB unless some of those "underwear" measurables are translating to the football field.
Click to expand...
You can if you are playing caddie to one of the two best RBs in the NFL of the past 5 years and/or are spending your time on the training table.

ETA: But clearly he has talent. Not arguing against that notion.
Click to expand...
I completely disagree. NFL franchises aren't charities. If you don't have the goods, they don't have the time or inclination to keep you around.

 
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
GDogg said:
Chaka said:
Rimez said:
emmitt smith couldnt run behind that oline. if youre fumbling multiple times in practice while your rb competition puts on a clinic.... then youre not going to get the chance to dodge tacklers in the backfield on gameday.

you can hold him in dynasty and keep your fingers crossed but it isnt like tate is an old man on his way out, and west isnt going away. i own tate but just dropped crowell cuz hey why even handcuff that running game? it stinks and there are no cutback lanes. tate/crowell/west are all nearly the exact same size yet tate is the fastest, has the best hands, waaaaaay stronger, smarter, and more experienced. if tate cant get it done then then i have 0 confidence in crowell with his plodding 4.6 speed doing any better, and there isnt clarity he would even get the job anyway.
Click to expand...
I am not certain any of those things are true.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain about hands or way stronger, but Tate ran a 4.43 40 at the combine (3rd fastest among a RB group that included Jahvid Best (4.35), CJ Spiller (4.37) and Ryan Mathews (4.45)) and was also a standout sprinter in track, running an 11.2 100 in HS. West ran a 4.54 40 at the combine. Crowell ran a 4.53 at the combine. Maybe he's lost a step, but Tate is or was most likely the fastest of the three.

In terms of hands, Tate had the most receptions of the three in college and averaged more receptions per game. He had 53 to West's 36 and Crowell's 26. However, he also played one more season than the other two. Tate averaged 1.13 receptions per game in college to West's .97 and Crowell's .74. That's not conclusive one way or the other as none of them got a lot of receptions and they all played in different offenses.

Your guess is as good as mine as to who the strongest is.
Click to expand...
Good stuff. There is also a difference between sprinting in your underwear and sprinting away from LBs & DBs in full pads.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I haven't been able to find those times yet for anyone.

But, (and again, unless he's lost a step or two) I'd bet Tate is just faster when you combine his track times with his other times that measure explosiveness. He blew West and Crowell away in each of the combine drills designed to measure agility and explosiveness. Tate's 3 cone speed of 6.91 seconds is excellent. His 4.12 short shuttle time is very good.

Tate's vertical jump was 40.5 inches compared to 33.5 and 38 for West and Crowell, respectively. A 40 inch vert is considered elite.

He also had a better broad jump at 124 inches. West was not far off at 120 inches and Crowell lagged behind at 117. 120 inches or better in the broad jump is considered elite.

I don't put much stock into the bench press to measure strength, but for those that do, Tate put up 26 reps on the bench, compared to 16 and 23 for West and Crowell, respectively.

At least in terms of measureables, Tate is a much better athlete than either West or Crowell (provided again, that he hasn't lost a step or two in the last few years, which he may have). And, thus far, the Browns clearly think he's a much better RB, too.
Click to expand...
I have been beating the "It's Tate's job" drum long and loud in this thread. I completely agree that he is the best RB on the Browns now, but I am just not certain it's because he is a better athlete. It's because he's the most complete and dependable player.
Click to expand...
Neither am I and I've tried to make it clear that I am separating athletic measurables from being a good RB. But, he either is and/or was the better athlete between the three.

And, you don't last 4 years in the NFL as a RB unless some of those "underwear" measurables are translating to the football field.
Click to expand...
You can if you are playing caddie to one of the two best RBs in the NFL of the past 5 years and/or are spending your time on the training table.

ETA: But clearly he has talent. Not arguing against that notion.
Click to expand...
I completely disagree. NFL franchises aren't charities. If you don't have the goods, they don't have the time or inclination to keep you around.
Click to expand...
The NFL doesn't pay taxes though, so they are kind of like charities

 
Six weeks ago Crowell's potential upside was "elite" assuming he had bypassed West and that Tate would get injured again and Crowell would be the lead dog behind that awesome o-line. Crowell was a lottery ticket with pretty good odds and a potentially big jackpot. Then there was the fumble-fest. Then Mack got hurt and all their ceilings dropped. Then, 2 weeks after the fumble-fest, Crowell's coaches still had fumble concerns.

The odds were never great but here the odds have actually gotten worse (fumbles) and the potential payout went down (due to Mack injury). No fun. I'm holding (7 bench spots) but not enjoying it.

 
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GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
SameSongNDance said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
pbandy1 said:
Dropped him for Sims. Need to start someone desperately this week and Sims is actually in my flex. God help me.
Click to expand...
There has been Zero indication that Sims will even be activated this week let alone getting touches.

Pettine has already said, Crowell will get more touches against maybe his best matchup this year, the woeful Bucs who have thrown in the towel.In response to the post a few up from this talking about 40 times, lol

Watch the tape folks, Crowell is better than the other two, and it isn't close.

Vision, explosiveness are the key here.

I wish I had him, but for those that do, he's at least a hold and probably a play this week.
Click to expand...
I have them both, but look up above. The numbers simply don't back that up.

And, I'm not speaking about him being a RB, which is obviously the most important thing here. Use your own judgment on that.

But, in terms of speed and explosiveness, which was the issue brought up above, Tate has the edge on Crowell and it isn't particularly close.
Click to expand...
I thought explosiveness was judged by vertical and broad jump. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is, along with the short shuttle. And, Tate was better than both West and Crowell in both of them, by a fair amount.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't referring to what they did in shorts, I was talking about what they did on Sunday in pads, My eyes say Crowell is better.
Click to expand...
Like I said, he might be a better RB, which is the most important thing, but unless Tate really struggles with pads on and Crowell is able to overcome his lack of elite explosiveness and speed with pads on, then Tate is the faster and most explosive of the two (or three if you want to include West), which is what was brought up above
Click to expand...
Let me get this straight, Tate has elite explosiveness and speed with pads on? Just want to clarify. Not looking for a sword fight.

 
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!

 
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.

ETA: I'm not trying to do anything. All of the Browns RBs performed markedly better pre-Mack injury, notwithstanding sample sizes.

 
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georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
SameSongNDance said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
pbandy1 said:
Dropped him for Sims. Need to start someone desperately this week and Sims is actually in my flex. God help me.
Click to expand...
There has been Zero indication that Sims will even be activated this week let alone getting touches.

Pettine has already said, Crowell will get more touches against maybe his best matchup this year, the woeful Bucs who have thrown in the towel.In response to the post a few up from this talking about 40 times, lol

Watch the tape folks, Crowell is better than the other two, and it isn't close.

Vision, explosiveness are the key here.

I wish I had him, but for those that do, he's at least a hold and probably a play this week.
Click to expand...
I have them both, but look up above. The numbers simply don't back that up.

And, I'm not speaking about him being a RB, which is obviously the most important thing here. Use your own judgment on that.

But, in terms of speed and explosiveness, which was the issue brought up above, Tate has the edge on Crowell and it isn't particularly close.
Click to expand...
I thought explosiveness was judged by vertical and broad jump. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It is, along with the short shuttle. And, Tate was better than both West and Crowell in both of them, by a fair amount.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't referring to what they did in shorts, I was talking about what they did on Sunday in pads, My eyes say Crowell is better.
Click to expand...
Like I said, he might be a better RB, which is the most important thing, but unless Tate really struggles with pads on and Crowell is able to overcome his lack of elite explosiveness and speed with pads on, then Tate is the faster and most explosive of the two (or three if you want to include West), which is what was brought up above
Click to expand...
Let me get this straight, Tate has elite explosiveness and speed with pads on? Just want to clarify. Not looking for a sword fight.
Click to expand...
You don't have it straight. Crowell does NOT have elite explosiveness and speed without pads on. Tate does (or did at the combine) have elite explosiveness and excellent speed without pads on.

 
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the problem still be "sample size" if Crowell had just one more carry, regardless of the result?
 
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.

 
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Or, slightly above what Crowell's is right now without Mack, Rush.

 
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Or, slightly above what Crowell's is right now without Mack, Rush.
Click to expand...
Wrongo captain. The premise was , if each had one 17 yd gain added.

 
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Or, slightly above what Crowell's is right now without Mack, Rush.
Click to expand...
Wrongo captain. The premise was , if each had one 17 yd gain added.
Click to expand...
You think if Tate had a 17 yard gain on his very next carry and Crowell had a 17 yard gain on his very next carry, then Tate would not have a ypc slightly above Crowell's ypc right now without Mack?

You might want to stop with the snark if this is getting too difficult for you.

 
kid runs through a few holes bigger than barn doors where troy polamalu was supposed to be and people want to induct him into canton. he was amazing twice against the steelers, decent against the ravens, and cringe worthy against everyone else. to put it in perspective bernard pierce also tore up the steelers on the ground and where is he these days? best game of the year so far for doug martin? yup the steelers.

crowell was destined for the practice squad, but after a great preseason they put him on the active roster so he wasnt stolen away by another team. he is very talented, but so is everyone else putting on an nfl uniform. he is two injuries away from starting so the bell cow dreams are pretty far fetched even in dynasty, and contrary to popular belief there is no guarantee that tate gets another injury. crowell will have more flex worthy games this year when he manages to score but good luck figuring out which games those are.

 
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
The flip side is that clearly the Browns don't think Crowell is worthy of any more then 8 carries.

Three fumbles in one game will have that effect.

ETA: But I am guessing that you know better then the coaching staff, right?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26 said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the problem still be "sample size" if Crowell had just one more carry, regardless of the result?
Click to expand...
Only when that argument works in his favor.

 
in dynasty, just hold and be happy you spent a >4th round rookie pick on a lottery ticket that might become the starter this or next year.

at least that's what I'm doing.

all the rest is splitting hairs. He may or may not become THE MAN in Cleveland at RB in the next year or so. If he does, great. If not, no biggie.

With RBs in fantasy football these days, I just try to get a handful of darts to throw and hope 1-of-4 hit the bullseye (or, heck, I'd be happy

with simply hitting the dart board).

 
Listen vato, lets just get to it. Crowell is the back to own in that backfield. Cleveland was dumb to draft West and even dumber to waste money on Tate. This team hasnt been known as a beacon of direction and purpose. Hold on to the lost memories of yesteryear if you want. Once the homies in Cleveland get a clue, Crow will be the guy. Dude.

 
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Only a Sacramento area resident makes reference to Rio Linda... Am I right, am I right?
 
Had a chance to grab Talieferro but kept Crowell. Trying to move him and Tate for Cooks though before tonight.

 
VandyMan said:
Six weeks ago Crowell's potential upside was "elite" assuming he had bypassed West and that Tate would get injured again and Crowell would be the lead dog behind that awesome o-line. Crowell was a lottery ticket with pretty good odds and a potentially big jackpot. Then there was the fumble-fest. Then Mack got hurt and all their ceilings dropped. Then, 2 weeks after the fumble-fest, Crowell's coaches still had fumble concerns.

The odds were never great but here the odds have actually gotten worse (fumbles) and the potential payout went down (due to Mack injury). No fun. I'm holding (7 bench spots) but not enjoying it.
Click to expand...
Spot on.

 
slackjawedyokel said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Only a Sacramento area resident makes reference to Rio Linda... Am I right, am I right?
Click to expand...
Has to be. When I first read it, I thought, yeah, that insult makes sense to me...and perhaps only two other posters in here!

 
FWIW Crowell is apparently not worth Khiry Robinson in a straight up trade (Robinson owner does not own Ingram and Crow owner does not own Tate).

 
beerponger said:
slackjawedyokel said:
Ojaays said:
GDogg said:
georg013 said:
GDogg said:
Ojaays said:
A little factoid.

Crowell has 52 touches, 4.9 per and 16 first downs.

Tate has 84 touches, 3.6 per and 14 first downs.
Click to expand...
Actually, Crowell has 55 touches and Tate has 87 touches.

In the games since Alex Mack got injured:

Crowell has 8 carries, 2.375 yards per carry.

Tate has 31 carries, 2.0 yards per carry.

They both suck without Mack?
Click to expand...
Hmmm...8 carries. Hardly even a sample size. Imagine what ONE 17 yard carry would do to Crowell's average (4.0) and what ONE 17 yard carry would do for Tate's (Nothing). BIG difference amigo. Sample size means everything. Nice try though!
Click to expand...
I can imagine lots of things, homeboy. I think I'll just stick with what has actually occurred. 31 carries isn't exactly a huge sample size. And, ONE 17 yard carry would actually bump his YPC by 20%. I think that's something. Nice try, Holmes.
Click to expand...
And just to complete the math for those in Rio Linda, that would make his ypc 2.4 instead of 2.0, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Only a Sacramento area resident makes reference to Rio Linda... Am I right, am I right?
Click to expand...
Has to be. When I first read it, I thought, yeah, that insult makes sense to me...and perhaps only two other posters in here!
Click to expand...
I would bet he's not. Look up how he phrased it and Rush Limbaugh (and the reason I responded as I did). He's a staunch Rush supporter, good or bad, and stole one of his insults.

 
georg013 said:
Listen vato, lets just get to it. Crowell is the back to own in that backfield. Cleveland was dumb to draft West and even dumber to waste money on Tate. This team hasnt been known as a beacon of direction and purpose. Hold on to the lost memories of yesteryear if you want. Once the homies in Cleveland get a clue, Crow will be the guy. Dude.
Click to expand...
Take THAT to the bank, bromigos :)

 
Rotoworld:

Isaiah Crowell said he hopes to play more this week against the Bucs.

Crowell leads the Browns with four rushing touchdowns and is averaging a team-high 4.9 YPC. This while Ben Tate has managed just 62 yards on 31 carries (2.0 YPC) the past two weeks against the Jaguars and Raiders. While Crowell hopes to play more, OC Kyle Shanahan didn't sound committed to getting him more looks, "We only play one back at a time." They trust veteran Tate more.

Source: Akron Beacon-Journal
Oct 31 - 10:03 AM
Click to expand...
 
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Isaiah Crowell said he hopes to play more this week against the Bucs.

Crowell leads the Browns with four rushing touchdowns and is averaging a team-high 4.9 YPC. This while Ben Tate has managed just 62 yards on 31 carries (2.0 YPC) the past two weeks against the Jaguars and Raiders. While Crowell hopes to play more, OC Kyle Shanahan didn't sound committed to getting him more looks, "We only play one back at a time." They trust veteran Tate more.

Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

Oct 31 - 10:03 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The fumbles are rearing their head in a silent way.

 
georg013 said:
So is the ineffectiveness of the other two. Somethings gotta give no? Ha!
Click to expand...
Crow wouldn't have gotten any yards the last two weeks either. The backs aren't the problem.
 
Gopher State said:
Leonidas said:
Slapdash said:
Dropped him for Mason last night. You're welcome, all Crowell owners.
Click to expand...
I dropped him for Taliaferro

Hopefully for those holding I regret the decision
Click to expand...
He's sitting on the waiver wire for free in my 12 team re draft league, no interest he is no longer the flavor of the month, more upside in the Gray's of the FF
Click to expand...
As it happens I piked up Jonas Gray as well, dropping Davante Adams (even though I have Nelson)

With Forsett looking probably g2g this weekend I agree that Gray seems to have more upside than Taliaferro, and that that upside is probably easier/quicker to tap into at this point than Crowell.

---FWIW, nobody picked up Crowell after I dropped him. He cleared waivers and is sitting as a Free Agent now

 
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