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I will say that those who drafted him shouldn't necessarily cast him aside... Ya it was a reach but I'm sure in deep leagues he'd still be given a chance by a savvy owner at the end of their bench. The hate wagon will probably be coming out soon given that he is burning owners right now.

:goodposting:

You made a mistake drafting himwhere you did, but don't compound the mistake by cutting him too soon.

It depends on what you are leaving on the FA wire to hold him. I think there are better prospects. At this point, he is a non-drafted FA rookie who missed OTAs because of injury, hasn't impressed in camp, has hardly been on the field in preseason, and is at risk of not making his team. You have to weight the potential you think you see against the potential + opportunity you are passing up by losing out on other upside players who have emerged in preseason.

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The Ravens that had a murderer for his entire tenure? 

totally coulda got him at 5.01, noob

God, I forgot how much of a ####-measuring contest the Shark Pool can be.  Thanks for reminding me, guys.  See you in another year.

I will say that those who drafted him shouldn't necessarily cast him aside... Ya it was a reach but I'm sure in deep leagues he'd still be given a chance by a savvy owner at the end of their bench. The hate wagon will probably be coming out soon given that he is burning owners right now.

:goodposting:

You made a mistake drafting himwhere you did, but don't compound the mistake by cutting him too soon.

That's the kind of thinking that has kept Jonathan Stewart on my roster(s) for years; Isaiah Crowell is no Jonathan Stewart.

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Talking deep leagues here. If you have guys like Jonathan Grimes out there then by all means,but if you're looking at Jordan Todman and Stephen Houston then you need to be more patient, you picked him too high because you like him, what did you think about him relative to those guys earlier this summer?

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Talking deep leagues here. If you have guys like Jonathan Grimes out there then by all means,but if you're looking at Jordan Todman and Stephen Houston then you need to be more patient, you picked him too high because you like him, what did you think about him relative to those guys earlier this summer?

I never really considered Crowell until recently (got him in the late 4th during an early August draft). Never considerd him prior becasue he was going in the late 2nd/early 3rd (too rich for me).

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There's a lot of interesting RBs out there who are buried on their depth charts at the moment. It'll be interesting to see if any of their teams try to sneak them onto the practice squad. Crowell would probably be the most likely to make it, but I also think he's the least likely to be risked.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.
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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

True but at least he finally got some carries. The main point is that West has had his chances and so far has looked real bad.

It's been hard to keep rostering him with some cutdowns but I remember holding onto Ellington last year in the same league and that worked out pretty well.

Edited by voiceofunreason
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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

True but at least he finally got some carries. The main point is that West has had his chances and so far has looked real bad.

It's been hard to keep rostering him with some cutdowns but I remember holding onto Ellington last year in the same league and that worked out pretty well.

West may or may not amount to much but it's pretty clear Clev hasn't been impressed with Crowell. He's been buried on the depth chart and is probably playing for his chance to stay in the team tonight.
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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

True but at least he finally got some carries. The main point is that West has had his chances and so far has looked real bad.

It's been hard to keep rostering him with some cutdowns but I remember holding onto Ellington last year in the same league and that worked out pretty well.

West may or may not amount to much but it's pretty clear Clev hasn't been impressed with Crowell. He's been buried on the depth chart and is probably playing for his chance to stay in the team tonight.

This.

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Maybe Crowell has been in the coach's doghouse for something not made public, you never know, but he sure looked good tonite!

The speculation of why he wasn't getting burn earlier was that the coaches were trying to keep him hidden hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Unrealistic at this point, and probably earlier as well.

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Maybe Crowell has been in the coach's doghouse for something not made public, you never know, but he sure looked good tonite!

The speculation of why he wasn't getting burn earlier was that the coaches were trying to keep him hidden hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Unrealistic at this point, and probably earlier as well.

then why play him at all?

do they really have that many backs he couldn't make the roster?

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Maybe Crowell has been in the coach's doghouse for something not made public, you never know, but he sure looked good tonite!

The speculation of why he wasn't getting burn earlier was that the coaches were trying to keep him hidden hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Unrealistic at this point, and probably earlier as well.

then why play him at all?

do they really have that many backs he couldn't make the roster?

Yes. They are playing him to see if he makes the roster.

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His OL did a fantastic job on his two long runs, you could drive a mac truck through those holes. Still, he burst into the second level quick and shed a tackler like he was nothing on his 23 yarder. It's kind of hard to evaluate a guy facing a bunch of dudes who are going to be out of a job next week though.

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Rotoworld:

Isaiah Crowell - RB - Browns

UDFA RB Isaiah Crowell rushed 13 times for 102 yards with a touchdown in Thursday's preseason finale against the Bears.

With Ben Tate and Dion Lewis playing sparingly, Crowell finally got an extensive chance in the preseason. The former five-star recruit made the most of it, thoroughly outplaying a disappointing Terrance West (six carries, 13 yards). The Browns may have shot themselves in the foot now though, as Crowell will be almost impossible to sneak onto the practice squad. They have some hard decisions to make at the running back spot before Saturday.

Aug 29 - 12:03 AM

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His OL did a fantastic job on his two long runs, you could drive a mac truck through those holes. Still, he burst into the second level quick and shed a tackler like he was nothing on his 23 yarder. It's kind of hard to evaluate a guy facing a bunch of dudes who are going to be out of a job next week though.

His 23-yarder was more impressive than the 48-yarder. Though, On the 48-yarder he did outrun Safety MD Jennings who ran a 4.48 40. Here's the 23-yarder: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000385544/Q3-Crowell-23-yard-run

Showed a burst that West doesn't have.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

True but at least he finally got some carries. The main point is that West has had his chances and so far has looked real bad.

It's been hard to keep rostering him with some cutdowns but I remember holding onto Ellington last year in the same league and that worked out pretty well.

West may or may not amount to much but it's pretty clear Clev hasn't been impressed with Crowell. He's been buried on the depth chart and is probably playing for his chance to stay in the team tonight.

Do you have a quote for this?

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

Yes. We should ignore that West was getting first team reps and that Crowell did absolutely nothing all preseason until he tore it up in the second half of the week 4 PS game. And that Crowell was so amazing against a bunch of guys who will either be looking for work next week or will be getting NFL time almost exclusively composed of some ST work truly shows his incredible greatness.

Good call.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

Yes. We should ignore that West was getting first team reps and that Crowell did absolutely nothing all preseason until he tore it up in the second half of the week 4 PS game. And that Crowell was so amazing against a bunch of guys who will either be looking for work next week or will be getting NFL time almost exclusively composed of some ST work truly shows his incredible greatness.

Good call.

Yes because Xue thinks he more talented. Oh and West isn't the only problem for Crowell right now. He's 4th in the RB rotation so there is Tate and Lewis as well.

Actually, I kind of hope people keep this hype train rolling.

Edited by jurb26
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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

Yes. We should ignore that West was getting first team reps and that Crowell did absolutely nothing all preseason until he tore it up in the second half of the week 4 PS game. And that Crowell was so amazing against a bunch of guys who will either be looking for work next week or will be getting NFL time almost exclusively composed of some ST work truly shows his incredible greatness.

Good call.

Yes because Xue thinks he more talented.

Actually, I kind of hope people keep this hype train rolling.

A lot of of us believed Crowell was the better player. I was even more convinced after seeing West be handed the #2 role. The only thing that could have changed my mind was seeing Crowell struggle on the field. Last night wasn't a struggle. I was prepared to hold even if he had not played one snap. It probably doesn't change the pecking order at all considering it was against mostly scrubs.

However, it does strengthen the position of us Crowell supporters. If he is given the opportunity, I believe he will bypass West and vie for the lead role.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

Yes. We should ignore that West was getting first team reps and that Crowell did absolutely nothing all preseason until he tore it up in the second half of the week 4 PS game. And that Crowell was so amazing against a bunch of guys who will either be looking for work next week or will be getting NFL time almost exclusively composed of some ST work truly shows his incredible greatness.

Good call.

Yes because Xue thinks he more talented.

Actually, I kind of hope people keep this hype train rolling.

A lot of of us believed Crowell was the better player. I was even more convinced after seeing West be handed the #2 role. The only thing that could have changed my mind was seeing Crowell struggle on the field. Last night wasn't a struggle. I was prepared to hold even if he had not played one snap. It probably doesn't change the pecking order at all considering it was against mostly scrubs.

However, it does strengthen the position of us Crowell supporters. If he is given the opportunity, I believe he will bypass West and vie for the lead role.

He's got to bypass both Lewis and West.
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http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/4/16/5612080/isaiah-crowell-2014-nfl-draft-profile

Crowell is one of the two most naturally talented running backs in this class (along with Carlos Hyde) and early on I like him as a change-of-pace style back.

The one asset of Crowell's running ability that did not blow me away was his actual elusiveness. He can beat defenders in a number of ways, but ultimately was not very elusive or creative in how he did it. He has good short area explosion but seems to struggle when forced to change direction or string together moves. He is very much so a downhill runner, and while there is nothing wrong with that, he will not be able to outrun NFL defenses like he did in college.

Personally I was considering a move similar to what was stated above: late® rnd addition just on the chance per say But I need to say thank-you for enlightening me.

imho what you see in quotes above is probably somewhat correct.

I tell ya what though, I sure do wish some names that I recognized better were behind Crowell. Anyway I did find a video where Crowell states he was having an issue w his hamstring, but it wasn't nothing serious. But the hammy could explain the slower startup? I dunno

fwiw I like the choice in teams to an extent! However as soon as next Season, I would have preferred the Falcons.

Hows the saying go? Turnup truck I dunno

I caved though, I just had to roster the guy In some respects this could TD 2.0

tbh I believe there were only so many potential 3 down backs ( No not saying I believe I have one now) But If Im gonna roster an extra RB for a trial period so to speak. I dunno the guy don't look so bad eh. fwiw I did draft McKinnon

p.s. Off Subject a bit

AD "might" have spoke w Mr Jones (Cowboys) about playing for the home team (during the off-Season). I seen this on another sight on my cell

Also Jones doesn't believe it was "tampering"

Vikes are paying a pretty penny, but AD's contract goes thru 2017?

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He may be a good back, but the Bears had like only 35 guys active tonight. Many of the second stringers weren't playing, much to the confusion of Chicago sports radio. I'm not sure how much can be gleaned from that game at all, but yes, he ran all over the guys they threw out there.

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He may be a good back, but the Bears had like only 35 guys active tonight. Many of the second stringers weren't playing, much to the confusion of Chicago sports radio. I'm not sure how much can be gleaned from that game at all, but yes, he ran all over the guys they threw out there.

Obviously he wasn't playing against starters, but I think he looked like a potential NFL starting RB is supposed to look against borderline NFL talent, which is encouraging to me.
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A little hope for anyone who bought into the early hype on Crowell. I ended up with him on one dynasty team and was feeling pretty disgusted. Now I will be rostering his sorry #### and hope he continues to do well.

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He may be a good back, but the Bears had like only 35 guys active tonight. Many of the second stringers weren't playing, much to the confusion of Chicago sports radio. I'm not sure how much can be gleaned from that game at all, but yes, he ran all over the guys they threw out there.

Obviously he wasn't playing against starters, but I think he looked like a potential NFL starting RB is supposed to look against borderline NFL talent, which is encouraging to me.

That may be true, I just wanted to add that what the Bears did last night wasn't normal, even for week 4 preseason games.

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He was undrafted. I don't care how good he looks in practices or games or on college tape, did anyone really believe he was immediately going to be given the chance to leapfrog more established or highly drafted talent?

Of course not. He was first going to have to prove that he can be a good teammate, put in the hard work, and keep his nose clean - the last part being the most important given his history. If he's shown the Browns enough to roster him and he continues to put his off-field troubles behind him, he's got plenty of talent to earn a growing role.

He's an investment, not much different than Bryce Brown was a few years ago, only Crowell wouldn't be sitting behind a talent remotely close to McCoy.

It's going to take time. Anyone who felt otherwise had set their expectations too high.

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He was undrafted. I don't care how good he looks in practices or games or on college tape, did anyone really believe he was immediately going to be given the chance to leapfrog more established or highly drafted talent?

Of course not. He was first going to have to prove that he can be a good teammate, put in the hard work, and keep his nose clean - the last part being the most important given his history. If he's shown the Browns enough to roster him and he continues to put his off-field troubles behind him, he's got plenty of talent to earn a growing role.

He's an investment, not much different than Bryce Brown was a few years ago, only Crowell wouldn't be sitting behind a talent remotely close to McCoy.

It's going to take time. Anyone who felt otherwise had set their expectations too high.

His play in that game is pretty meaningless aside from the obvious, which is had he sucked playing guys who aren't even going to be on a team next week, then you could flush him.

As it is, if he showed enough to make the roster then he is still worth owning in fantasy. But he will be a deep backup so you may have to hold a long time before you know if you have anything.

Again, he is worth rostering but are there better lottery tickets? I think so. I would rather have someone who is a second string player, playing in a proven offense, who only needs one injury to get on the field and who if he gets on the field is sure to do well because the offense overall is strong.

If you still have the guy in dynasty, this is your window to sell him and hope to get something back. You can hope that some league mate saw the game and bought into those big runs against grocery baggers.

Edited by az_prof
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He was undrafted. I don't care how good he looks in practices or games or on college tape, did anyone really believe he was immediately going to be given the chance to leapfrog more established or highly drafted talent?

Of course not. He was first going to have to prove that he can be a good teammate, put in the hard work, and keep his nose clean - the last part being the most important given his history. If he's shown the Browns enough to roster him and he continues to put his off-field troubles behind him, he's got plenty of talent to earn a growing role.

He's an investment, not much different than Bryce Brown was a few years ago, only Crowell wouldn't be sitting behind a talent remotely close to McCoy.

It's going to take time. Anyone who felt otherwise had set their expectations too high.

His play in that game is pretty meaningless aside from the obvious, which is had he sucked playing guys who aren't even going to be on a team next week, then you could flush him.

As it is, if he showed enough to make the roster then he is still worth owning in fantasy. But he will be a deep backup so you may have to hold a long time before you know if you have anything.

Again, he is worth rostering but are there better lottery tickets? I think so. I would rather have someone who is a second string player, playing in a proven offense, who only needs one injury to get on the field and who if he gets on the field is sure to do well because the offense overall is strong.

If you still have the guy in dynasty, this is your window to sell him and hope to get something back. You can hope that some league mate saw the game and bought into those big runs against grocery baggers.

Anyone who puts a lot of weight in the last preseason game is missing the point, too. It was always going to take him time to prove himself as a UDFA, and I can't believe anyone actually believed he was ever going to get the chance to unseat a free agent signing or a guy who was drafted relatively early before he shows the Browns he can be a good person off the field.

He was worth holding onto before the game, and he's worth holding onto now. Not because of 13 meaningless carries (although he clearly has the LOOK of an NFL RB), but because of his pedigree and the chance that IF he keeps his head on straight, talent has a way of eventually forcing it's way onto the field. Give me that on my bench over a guy whose upside is a backup RB or WR any day.

Anybody would rather have a talented backup who's an injury away from playing time. But personally, I prefer to use my last roster spots on guys with huge upside no matter how likely they are to bust.

This isn't the time to sell him, either. At SOME point, if the Browns keep him on the roster he's going to get a chance to show what he has in a real game. And what if he makes the kind of impact Bryce Brown did? Then you have to decide if it's real or if it's time to see what you can get.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The people who actually believed Terrance West was more talented than Crowell is out of their mind.

The fact that West has looked pitiful throughout the pre-season while getting so many opportunities and Crowell did so much more on so little is meaningful.

rollseyes

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Dion Lewis was released today, which likely means Crowell will be the #3 RB behind Tate and West.

For those of us who believe Crowell is more talented than West, he just got a lot more interesting for both redraft and dynasty leagues.

If he behaves himself, he's going to get a chance this year. Big if, of course.

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Dion Lewis was released today, which likely means Crowell will be the #3 RB behind Tate and West.

For those of us who believe Crowell is more talented than West, he just got a lot more interesting for both redraft and dynasty leagues.

If he behaves himself, he's going to get a chance this year. Big if, of course.

Silent G also cut.

He becomes an intriguing option now. Let's hope with what has gone down with Gordon in Cleveland, that he takes advantage of the support group there and realizes what he has to lose if he messes up again.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

I think you are overstating his prior standing. What we can see is who plays the games. Coaches don't necessarily play guys in order of who they want to keep. If they thought they were keeping Crowell all along, then playing Lewis ahead of him could make sense to see if he could prove them wrong.

Crowell could have improved his standing with his performance in the 4th pre-season game, but I don't think that is guaranteed by any means.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

You're changing the context of the conversation here. We were discussing his fantasy value. I clearly stated he was battling for a roster spot, which he won. Many here are acting as though this was a Crowell vs. West thing and it wasn't. It was a Crowell vs. Lewis and making the team thing. I have been looking at the evidence. The evidence is that he was undrafted, then buried on the depth chart and fighting for a roster spot. So now we can add him winning that roster spot. Next he has to move up from 3 on the depth chart.
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His OL did a fantastic job on his two long runs, you could drive a mac truck through those holes. Still, he burst into the second level quick and shed a tackler like he was nothing on his 23 yarder. It's kind of hard to evaluate a guy facing a bunch of dudes who are going to be out of a job next week though.

It was good blocking. But we knew going into it that he isn't Barry Sanders. So what jumped out for me was the acceleration for guy that size. When he saw the hole, he has the acceleration to come through the LOS at near top speed. And at his size he will be a load to handle when he can do that. Any DB standing in his way on that long TD was looking at a concussion protocol. And while not really shifty, he did have the vision and feet to extend his runs by using cut-backs.

As far as evaluating him against guys that won't have jobs next week, I think he clearly showed he is a guy that should have a job next week. In his first real game action, what else could be do?

Keep in mind that West's impressive college stats came against guys that won't have jobs next week in any NFL year. So far in game action, he hasn't looked like a world beater.

I'm not saying that Crowell is the guy. I'm saying that Tate probably is for the time being and this thing could play out several ways over the season.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

I think you are overstating his prior standing. What we can see is who plays the games. Coaches don't necessarily play guys in order of who they want to keep. If they thought they were keeping Crowell all along, then playing Lewis ahead of him could make sense to see if he could prove them wrong.

Crowell could have improved his standing with his performance in the 4th pre-season game, but I don't think that is guaranteed by any means.

Yes and no. They play the ones that they aren't sure of and want to know more about. If they already knew who they wanted to keep, they would already know who they are keeping. So by definition, if they wanted to keep Lewis and Ogbannaya heading into the game, they changed their mind based on Crowell's performance.

It's a question of degree. These games are absolutely NOT meaningless in terms of roster composition. If you've ever watched a few episodes of Hard Knocks, you know that they are not. The coaches absolutely look at how players perform in these games and discuss it in meetings after the fact. So, yes, I absolutely can guarantee that Crowell helped his stock by performing as he did. Whether he was neck and neck with Lewis and Ogbannaya prior to that game, slightly behind, or way behind, we don't really know. But it's absolutely true that he helped his cause.

And when observers say that he wasn't that impressive in practices and might be on the outside looking in, it isn't a stretch to think that he either REALLY helped his stock in that game or that all those saying he was crap because he wasn't seeing carries were off base.

But even if what you say is true, then Jurb would still have been off-base in saying that Crowell getting his carries in the 2nd half of 4th preseason game was all you need to know. So he's just as wring, just for a different reason.

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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

I think you are overstating his prior standing. What we can see is who plays the games. Coaches don't necessarily play guys in order of who they want to keep. If they thought they were keeping Crowell all along, then playing Lewis ahead of him could make sense to see if he could prove them wrong.

Crowell could have improved his standing with his performance in the 4th pre-season game, but I don't think that is guaranteed by any means.

Yes and no. They play the ones that they aren't sure of and want to know more about. If they already knew who they wanted to keep, they would already know who they are keeping. So by definition, if they wanted to keep Lewis and Ogbannaya heading into the game, they changed their mind based on Crowell's performance.

It's a question of degree. These games are absolutely NOT meaningless in terms of roster composition. If you've ever watched a few episodes of Hard Knocks, you know that they are not. The coaches absolutely look at how players perform in these games and discuss it in meetings after the fact. So, yes, I absolutely can guarantee that Crowell helped his stock by performing as he did. Whether he was neck and neck with Lewis and Ogbannaya prior to that game, slightly behind, or way behind, we don't really know. But it's absolutely true that he helped his cause.

And when observers say that he wasn't that impressive in practices and might be on the outside looking in, it isn't a stretch to think that he either REALLY helped his stock in that game or that all those saying he was crap because he wasn't seeing carries were off base.

But even if what you say is true, then Jurb would still have been off-base in saying that Crowell getting his carries in the 2nd half of 4th preseason game was all you need to know. So he's just as wring, just for a different reason.

Yeah, I think there are separate questions of process and conclusions here. I think jurb and I would disagree very much on the conclusion on Crowell's talent level/standing but might be closer on process, as in we don't think his performance had that much impact on coaches opinion of him.

I think we are pretty close in terms of conclusion that Crowell is no where near the scrub that jurb is claiming. Though we may differ on process a little bit in that I think the coaches were higher on Crowell even before that performance. I didn't hear anything about him not being impressive in practices, I think there were reports early in camp that they were very impressed with him.

He was a priority UFA that I think the Browns realized they were not going to be able to stash on the PS. While he is most likely behind West on the depth chart, this could be entirely explainable by draft position and questions about maturity as opposed to talent. I agree with Xue that Crowell's ceiling is much higher than West's.

At the end of the day this is all speculation as we don't know what is going on in the coaches' heads, so this is just my 2 cents.

Edited by cdubz
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A lot of the Crowell detractors gonna change their tune after tonight.

Crowell > West easily. Before the draft and now.

If you think anyone is changing their mind because of a few 4th quarter runs in the most meaningless of all NFL football games your out of your mind. What's meaningful is that Crowell didn't even get into this game until the second half.

The Browns apparently did.

You don't think Jordan Palmer got cut 4 days after signing with the Bills at least in part due to his 3 interception meltdown the night before?

I think you completely ignore that coaches do use these games to evaluate the players in a context different than scripted, tightly controlled practices. Some players practice well and wilt under the lights, others practice poorly but come alive when the lights are on. This thing isn't exactly a science.

Now the Browns have cut both Dion Lewis AND Chris Ogbonnaya. Recent blurbs were that Crowell was in a fight for a roster spot. So now Crowell went from being at risk of being cut, to leapfrogging two guys to land 3rd on the depth chart. No, nothing to see here. These games are meaningless.

So Crowell finds himself:

1) on a team that was having essentially an open competition at RB this summer

2) that can (solid o-line) and will (journeyman or rookie at QB) run the ball,

3) and is currently behind a veteran who is new to the team and scheme with a history of being dinged up and

4) currently behind a fellow rookie who has looked good in practices but kinda "meh" in game action.

You don't have to be a believer to have him on your radar at this point. How can ANY RB who appears to have a complete 3 down skill set (as opposed to a COP, 3rd down or short-yardage skill set) not be on the radar at this point under those circumstances?

It looks to me like you have a pre-set notion on the guy and are simply arguing the position instead of looking at the evidence.

You're changing the context of the conversation here. We were discussing his fantasy value. I clearly stated he was battling for a roster spot, which he won. Many here are acting as though this was a Crowell vs. West thing and it wasn't. It was a Crowell vs. Lewis and making the team thing. I have been looking at the evidence. The evidence is that he was undrafted, then buried on the depth chart and fighting for a roster spot. So now we can add him winning that roster spot. Next he has to move up from 3 on the depth chart.

No, I'm not. Any guy 3rd on the depth chart in that type of situation SHOULD be on your radar because there can be fantasy value regardless of what his name is. What has happened is that the guys who already rostered him are looking more like they will get a pay-off. And his naysayers that said he won't have any value are looking more like they could be wrong. So the needle on his fantasy value absolutely has moved in the last day or two and the odds of him passing West also have absolutely moved as well.

In terms of fantasy value, and whether he should be rostered, it depends on your roster sizes. As I thought I expressed, his situation is one that merits consideration, particularly since he isn't your typical UDFA who was so because they weren't highly regarded due to questionable talent. Whether Crowell would have been a 1st, 3rd, 5th or 7th round prospect without his character concerns is up for debate. But arguing that he was so lacking in talent that he projected as a UDFA would be laughable, as is presuming that his odds of following the same career arc are the same as a less talented UDFA. Not all UDFA's are the same and not all 3rd on the depth chart situations are the same.

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So, yes, I But even if what you say is true, then Jurb would still have been off-base in saying that Crowell getting his carries in the 2nd half of 4th preseason game was all you need to know. So he's just as wring, just for a different reason.

Which isn't what I said at all.

Also, when did I ever say he wasn't on my fantasy radar?

Your just making things up.

Edited by jurb26
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The Browns deciding to cut Dion Leiws is good for Crowell, because Lewis is a decent back. I wouldn't be surprised if he catches on somewhere next week.

Ben Tate on a short deal, and a small-school mid rounder in front of him, that's all you can ask.

Crowell was always a lottery ticket, and he has made a team (we think). That's the first step. Next step is someone in front of him stumbling, and letting him show his stuff. He's a UDFA with talent, hopefully people tap the breaks on the hyperbole for a bit

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Dion Lewis was released today, which likely means Crowell will be the #3 RB behind Tate and West.

For those of us who believe Crowell is more talented than West, he just got a lot more interesting for both redraft and dynasty leagues.

If he behaves himself, he's going to get a chance this year. Big if, of course.

Silent G also cut.

He becomes an intriguing option now. Let's hope with what has gone down with Gordon in Cleveland, that he takes advantage of the support group there and realizes what he has to lose if he messes up again.

Yep.

With both RB Dion Lewis AND RB Chris Obgannayo being released it means not only has RB Isaiah Crowell made the squad but now the Browns lack a true 3rd down running back. Not sure of Crowell's mitts but he 'could' immediately slide into that role but as of now he's the third running back.

With Tate as the starter and T-West as the current #2 RB he isn't the first guy to come off the bench but his prospects got much brighter today than they were only a few hours ago. :cool:

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Dion Lewis was released today, which likely means Crowell will be the #3 RB behind Tate and West.

For those of us who believe Crowell is more talented than West, he just got a lot more interesting for both redraft and dynasty leagues.

If he behaves himself, he's going to get a chance this year. Big if, of course.

Silent G also cut.

He becomes an intriguing option now. Let's hope with what has gone down with Gordon in Cleveland, that he takes advantage of the support group there and realizes what he has to lose if he messes up again.

Yep.

With both RB Dion Lewis AND RB Chris Obgannayo being released it means not only has RB Isaiah Crowell made the squad but now the Browns lack a true 3rd down running back. Not sure of Crowell's mitts but he 'could' immediately slide into that role but as of now he's the third running back.

With Tate as the starter and T-West as the current #2 RB he isn't the first guy to come off the bench but his prospects got much brighter today than they were only a few hours ago. :cool:

I thought West was viewed ad the 3rd down guy?
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