Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Couple of great on-point posts here...he is very patient and follows his blocks well (just as in college), and he is explosive and big when he turns north. I'm excited to see how this plays out for him.
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Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter georg013
- Start date
Agreed. I'm skeptical about some that claimed they rostered him in their redraft. This was a guy who, before he broke out against CHICAGO in the preseason, I thought was going to get cut. And it didn't help that Tate was mildly successful in his attempts in Week 1 and Pettine said Crowell was an afterthought until Tate went down. I think Crowell remains stuck behind Tate and West as long as they're healthy.
I actually picked him up in a 12 team/18 roster ppr last week. I credit The Audible with making me aware of him, but as the Tate owner who didn't get West, I thought Crowell might be a nice lottery ticket style backup plan.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
the fact that we're already talking about a Tate injury , after only the first game of the season,tells me all I need to know about Crowell: he's going to get plenty of playing time in this offense.. it's between Crowell and West at this point.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Nate Ulrich @NateUlrichABJ
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said he thinks RB Isaiah Crowell is "built for" OC Kyle Shanahan's system.
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said he thinks RB Isaiah Crowell is "built for" OC Kyle Shanahan's system.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
He also said that T West had a great week of practice.
massraider
Footballguy
And that Tate was a workhorse.
ebsteelers
Footballguy
3 rbs with 1000 yards?
more likely 3 rbs with 700 yards, and equal number of tds so no one gets a good piece
more likely 3 rbs with 700 yards, and equal number of tds so no one gets a good piece
Xue
Footballguy
this is blinding yourself to the situation. it sounds like a 2-4 week injury after which Tate will be back. when he comes back he takes the job back or at least most of the job back
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Until the next injury. Tate has succumb to more injuries on his 480-ish touches than a lot of RBs in the league. He's essentially in Chris Ivory territory but Ivory is still upright after week 1, so he wins this round.
njherdfan
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I thought he missed some time earlier in the season due to another hamstring injury.
He did stay relatively healthy though, yeah, which for Ivory is a huge success.
that's what they say about everyone until they stay healthy. unless he has some structural issue he is more likely to play say 9 of the remaining 10 games than to simply be out of the picture entirely. if you are guessing fantasy points rest of season, Tate has to be #1 among Browns RBs
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Here was my post a little before the start of the season in the Tate thread..
This isn't meant to brag, as everyone knows about Tate's durability issues but it is meant to help gain a better perspective. I'm willing to bet there are only a handful of perennial back-up RBs with Tate's extensive injury history. When trying to measure Crowell's long-term potential this year, I think it's very fair to take into account Tate's injury history. Of course, Tate should touch the ball again sometimes this year but again "for how long?" is a good question. It's the same reason people felt more comfortable gambling on C. Johnson this year even though they knew Ivory would be apart of the game plan. These guys haven't proven they can last a full season, and until they do I'm going to assume they can't.
Gvindy
Footballguy
Coach Mike Pettine hinted that he sees Isaiah Crowell as more of a power back than Terrance West.
With Ben Tate (knee) out 2-4 weeks, West is going to be the starter. But the talented Crowell is going to mix in as well, possibly in the red zone. He scored from 3 and 15 yards out in the Week 1 loss to the Steelers. "I think Terrance is more of a 'can make you miss' guy. I don't know if Crowell wants to make you miss," Pettine said. Crowell, a former five-star recruit and SEC Freshman of the Year before off-field issues derailed his career, needs to be owned in most 12-team formats.
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer
With Ben Tate (knee) out 2-4 weeks, West is going to be the starter. But the talented Crowell is going to mix in as well, possibly in the red zone. He scored from 3 and 15 yards out in the Week 1 loss to the Steelers. "I think Terrance is more of a 'can make you miss' guy. I don't know if Crowell wants to make you miss," Pettine said. Crowell, a former five-star recruit and SEC Freshman of the Year before off-field issues derailed his career, needs to be owned in most 12-team formats.
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
These are never static situations.
If his performance against Chicago caused a shift in his coaches' plan for him, then it would be reckless to ignore what another good showing would do. Although he had fewer carries, he looked every bit as good as Tate and West did.
What this is shaping up for is a situation where none of the three have a lock-down hold on the job. The minute any of them falters, fumbles, gets dinged, etc. it's going to be very easy for the coaches to start thinking about the other guy standing on the sideline.
I think this could easily be a "hot hand" situation by mid-season. It will be a nightmare if you need to count on one of them, but the Crowell owners will clearly have an advantage there given that their cost to acquire was likely significantly lower than it was for both the Tate and West owners.
Zyphros
Footballguy
So what is his price tag now? I just inquired about him and his owner wants a late 1st/early 2nd at worst. Seems a bit high to me for 1 "good" (if you want to call 5 touches good, although the results were nice) game. I wouldn't mind putting a 2nd for maybe 2 years in the future but the immediate year is a high price tag. As much as I hate how I dropped him from my team, maybe this is sellers remorse and I just want him back and willing to pay higher, but whats the consensus on how high people are willing to pay to get him?
Gvindy
Footballguy
I envision a scenario where Crowell closes out games (assuming CLE) is in the game. Do you think a tired defense wants to/can tackle this beast? However even down by a lot, vs PIT they leaned heavily on the run. I would much rather have shares in the #2 RB behind this Oline and Shanahan system, than even other teams 1st option in some cases(OAK). I'm in a 6pt TD league so that makes it sweeter. With Tate's injury history, it's time to buy.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I'm in a bit of a hybrid league....between dynasty/redraft. In that league, the Crowell owner was offered a likely late 2nd + small amount of cash weeks ago. He turned down the offer. I can't see any rabid Crowell owners selling him for less than a late 1st. The upside - and talent - is such that there is value in holding Crowell.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
I drafted him at 2.12 for him in a 12 team PPR dynasty league this year. Wanted to go for the highest upside at the point, and Crowell was that by far.
On Sunday, he looked like the best RB the Browns have on his limited touches. Bigger, faster, and more powerful than West. Tate looked lighter on his feet by a little and had more moves than I thought he would, but Crowell looked awesome. He looked like a guy who was a 5 star recruit and the SEC freshman of the year, and I believe his talent will eventually win out if he's given a fair chance to show it.
I don't believe I'd get anything close to what he's worth to me right now, just at the chance that what I saw turns out to be real. That chance is worth a lot more than a 2nd round rookie pick that probably won't amount to much.
He's not much different than Christine Michael right now to me. He's behind younger but far less talent backs though.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
One thing that stood out to me from the Pittsburgh game per all Browns RBs.....
Zero receptions.
I think once Tate comes back that he will see opportunities in the passing game but so far we haven't really seen that from the rookies.
One other interesting tidbit.
Everyone was oohing and aaaaahing over Pittsburgh RB LeVeone Bell and all of the Browns RBs, for good reason and they all looked great but I decided to do one simple thing. Take away the biggest run from each and see how much it impacted their average per rush.
Since, Tate (4 carries) and Crowell (5) had such limited attempts, taking away one carry meant chopping off 20 to 25% of their carries so any number derived is meaningless but Bell had 21 carries and West had 16 so we get a better picture of what they did if you take out their largest carry and this is what they averaged on their 'other' carries.
- Bell 3.55 yards per carry on his 'other' 20 rushing attempts
- West 4.7333333 yards per carry on his 'other' 15 rushing attempts
Considering that every Browns back averaged over 6 yards per rush it shows that either the Browns O-Line is dominant or the Steelers run defense is shoddy or a combination of both.
The biggest take-aways is that no Cleveland Brown RB caught a single pass and even if you took away West's longest carry he was still producing at a very-high level average per carry.
We'll have to see if Shanahan starts to incorporate the RBs into the passing attack game-plans now that Tate is out.
I would expect to at least see some screen plays schemed-up for them if anything but if we don't see any production then it seems that when Tate comes back that he will assume that role.
Zero receptions.
I think once Tate comes back that he will see opportunities in the passing game but so far we haven't really seen that from the rookies.
One other interesting tidbit.
Everyone was oohing and aaaaahing over Pittsburgh RB LeVeone Bell and all of the Browns RBs, for good reason and they all looked great but I decided to do one simple thing. Take away the biggest run from each and see how much it impacted their average per rush.
Since, Tate (4 carries) and Crowell (5) had such limited attempts, taking away one carry meant chopping off 20 to 25% of their carries so any number derived is meaningless but Bell had 21 carries and West had 16 so we get a better picture of what they did if you take out their largest carry and this is what they averaged on their 'other' carries.
- Bell 3.55 yards per carry on his 'other' 20 rushing attempts
- West 4.7333333 yards per carry on his 'other' 15 rushing attempts
Considering that every Browns back averaged over 6 yards per rush it shows that either the Browns O-Line is dominant or the Steelers run defense is shoddy or a combination of both.
The biggest take-aways is that no Cleveland Brown RB caught a single pass and even if you took away West's longest carry he was still producing at a very-high level average per carry.
We'll have to see if Shanahan starts to incorporate the RBs into the passing attack game-plans now that Tate is out.
I would expect to at least see some screen plays schemed-up for them if anything but if we don't see any production then it seems that when Tate comes back that he will assume that role.
Warhogs
Footballguy
Umm, yeah.
You aren't cashing him in for a first round pick at this point so he is more valuable to you than anyone else.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
I agree, and I'm not shopping him. Why would I? I'd rather keep him anyways because I agree - the chance that he's real is more valuable than anything anyone will give up to take that chance. If someone wants him, they're welcome to offer for him, but selling high only works if there are buyers, and people who don't own him won't be paying much.
Christine Michael is nothing but a physically talented backup without any kind of role or track record, yet people drool over him all the time despite him playing behind one of the best backs in the league for this year at least. Crowell didn't have the draft status to match his pedigree, but he has a much better pedigree than Michael. I suspect that if Crowell shows well with whatever carries he gets in the next 2 to 4 weeks, his hype could reach a similar level.
Teef
Footballguy
I didn't draft him myself, but I saw him drafted in a 10 and a 14 teamer, both redraft. These weren't shark leagues either.
He was on some kind of sleeper list out there, somewhere.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
groin pains
Footballguy
How many touches do you guys see him getting against New Orleans this Sunday?
RBM
Footballguy
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
When they played him extensively in the last game and didn't put him on the practice squad, their actions said that they really liked what they saw. Crowell was one of three RB's on the roster and he is no special teams asset, so they were telling us they intended to give him carries. It's happened faster than expected because Tate already got hurt, but regardless he was very draftable in deep leagues. I took him in the 17th in a 12 team league.
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AgentMulder
Footballguy
NREC34
Footballguy
bill bates hits hard
Footballguy
^Me too
Dave Stauff
Footballguy
Be interested in any comparisons between West and Crowell from those that had a chance to see the New Orleans game. See that Crowell's YPC was a bit higher, but hard to tell how West looked from a stat sheet . . .
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
West has 16 and 21 touches (190 yards) since Tate went down.
Crowell has 5 and 12 (89 yards).
So right around 2:1 in favor of West overall.
Crowell has 5 and 12 (89 yards).
So right around 2:1 in favor of West overall.
West doesn't wow you in any facet of the game, but he's playing like a veteran RB. In other words, most rookies have a tendency to bounce things outside, but he is taking what is there and on top of that is doing okay is pass pro. I own him and to be objective, hes not as athletically gifted as Crowell (echoing the sentiments of many), but he's pretty darn good. Between Tate's proclivity to get nicked up and Crowell's character issues, I'll take West over them any day of the week.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
FWIW, on PFF, Crowell had a much better running grade (.4 to -1.9), but West a much better blocking grade (-.7 to .6)
DirtyCashDylan
Footballguy
thoughts? He's got a bye coming up and then he's back to 3rd string.
