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RB Damien Williams, ATL (4 Viewers)

Bri said:
I rode this train last year and it went nowhere.

He looked much more comfy this preseason.

I don't get the love for Lamar Miller. I assume he won some FF titles with his nice week 15 game and his 178 yard game in week 16 so there's a shine on him. Before that he was a 700 yard RB that gets 12 carries per game.

12 carries for 50ish yards was quite regular and would make me consider Damien again.
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I don't really, either. I mean, I think it is just a product of hype (4.40 guy out of Miami, popular sleeper as a rookie... and even more popular the next year) meeting opportunity. He's on an up and coming offense with an improving offensive line and he's only got an injured 5th round rookie and an undrafted second year guy pushing him for touches. On the face of it, he seems golden. I like the situation a lot, too, but I'm just not sold on Miller. And no matter how much the coaching staff claims they are, I haven't seen it from them. They let Reggie Bush hold Miller to 51 carries as a rookie. They gave Daniel Thomas 7 carries/game vs. Miller's 11 carries/game the next year. Then last year they were going to give Moreno the job over him (24 caries vs 11 in week 1). And even after the Moreno injury it took a crazy week 17 game to get him over the 1000 yard milestone.

Damien Williams likely (or at least very possibly) would've been drafted higher than Miller if he hadn't gotten kicked off his college team. He ran a 4.45 forty at the combine at 222 lbs and already possessed great receiving skills. When watching his highlights, keep in mind his listed weight in college was 208.

To me, he's a really cheap lottery ticket. He'll get his chance to shine as it seems unlikely that Miller will get 80%+ of the snaps/touches* and Williams was already ahead of Ajayi before the injury that'll keep him out six weeks. Should Miller falter or get injured, Williams and his three down ability could really shine in this offense. If he earns some coaching staff confidence, he could even provide value in the meantime as a third down back or goal line vulture since he's bigger than Miller.

Just randomly checked the last few weeks snap counts from 2014 and week 14 Miller got 60% (Thomas 21%, Williams 19%), week 15 Miller 54% (Williams 26%, Thomas 21%), week 16 Miller 74% (Williams 24%, Thomas DNP), week 17 Miller 69% (Williams 14%, Thomas 17%). I don't know how you guys feel about Lamichael James, but I doubt he gets very many snaps.

Hard to read very much into the preseason play. In weeks 2 and 3, both Williams (10/33) and Miller (9/27) had underwhelming rushing stats.

 
I am a huge Lamar Miller supporter. I have been from his UM days as well as I watched him in High School. The kid is dynamite play maker in the mold of Clinton Portis, except he is not as tough of an inside runner.

However, he added almost 10 pounds of pure lean muscle this off-season. In camp he looked like a stronger back. He did not lose an ounce of speed either. He improved his pass catching ability and pass protection as well. You have to also remember Lamar came out two years early so physically and mentally he was immature.

Miller is going to have a great season.

Williams is also a great looking back too. I am thrilled we have him here. He is a very capable 3 down back as well. I don't disagree one bit with you Ninja on Williams skills and ability. But you're going to see a complete back this season with Lamar Miller. The good thing is we have a very capable backup who can fill right in in case of injury or if Lamar bails for free agency next season. The only thing Lamar does better than Williams is the potential for going to the house anywhere on the field. Williams is just as good as Lamar in every other department if not better.

But don't sell Lamar short this season. Like Tannehill and Landry he is part of the big three that will take it to the next level for the Phins this season. Couple in Devante Parker developing later on in the season and we very well may have a special offense this year.

 
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Todem said:
I am a huge Lamar Miller supporter. I have been from his UM days as well as I watched him in High School. The kid is dynamite play maker in the mold of Clinton Portis, except he is not as tough of an inside runner.

However, he added almost 10 pounds of pure lean muscle this off-season. In camp he looked like a stronger back. He did not lose an ounce of speed either. He improved his pass catching ability and pass protection as well. You have to also remember Lamar came out two years early so physically and mentally he was immature.

Miller is going to have a great season.

Williams is also a great looking back too. I am thrilled we have him here. He is a very capable 3 down back as well. I don't disagree one bit with you Ninja on Williams skills and ability. But Your going to see a complete back this season with Lamar Miller. The good thing is we have a very capable backup who can fill right in in case of injury or if Lamar bails for free agency next season. The only thing Lamar does better than Williams is the potential for going to the house anywhere on the field. Williams is just as good as Lamar in every other department if not better.

But don't sell Lamar short this season. Like Tannehill and Landry he is part of the big three that will take it to the next level for the Phins this season. Couple in Devante Parker developing later on in the season and we very well may have a special offense this year.
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Haha. I like your spirit, but don't buy into the fluff pieces. You may not have noticed, but every player in the NFL either added 10 lbs of "lean" muscle and didn't lose an "ounce" of speed, OR they lost 10 lbs and are now faster than they've ever been. The math never adds up. Either way, don't expect big differences from Miller just because someone said he gained 10 lbs.

Second point, Miller ran a 4.40 at his combine (while supposedly 10 lbs lighter) and Williams ran a 4.45 at his combine. I'm not sure that makes a huge difference in ability to take it to the house.

Other than straight line speed, I've never seen anything special out of Miller's game. He's not particularly elusive, doesn't break tackles. If he was really that good, wouldn't he have kept Daniel Thomas off the field? That's why I think Williams is such an intriguing target. He doesn't have to be special to replicate Miller's production, which is obviously quite different from the step down you'd expect from Lynch to Turbin.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok, good info, but is there any expectation or possibility that he gets near 10 carries in a game?
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There are very, very few backup RBs who get 10 carries per game. That would be 160 carries on the year. Last year they only ran the ball 334 times as a team (<21 per game). So I would be shocked if he gets 10 per game without an injury to Miller.

 
FF Ninja said:
Todem said:
I am a huge Lamar Miller supporter. I have been from his UM days as well as I watched him in High School. The kid is dynamite play maker in the mold of Clinton Portis, except he is not as tough of an inside runner.

However, he added almost 10 pounds of pure lean muscle this off-season. In camp he looked like a stronger back. He did not lose an ounce of speed either. He improved his pass catching ability and pass protection as well. You have to also remember Lamar came out two years early so physically and mentally he was immature.

Miller is going to have a great season.

Williams is also a great looking back too. I am thrilled we have him here. He is a very capable 3 down back as well. I don't disagree one bit with you Ninja on Williams skills and ability. But Your going to see a complete back this season with Lamar Miller. The good thing is we have a very capable backup who can fill right in in case of injury or if Lamar bails for free agency next season. The only thing Lamar does better than Williams is the potential for going to the house anywhere on the field. Williams is just as good as Lamar in every other department if not better.

But don't sell Lamar short this season. Like Tannehill and Landry he is part of the big three that will take it to the next level for the Phins this season. Couple in Devante Parker developing later on in the season and we very well may have a special offense this year.
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Haha. I like your spirit, but don't buy into the fluff pieces. You may not have noticed, but every player in the NFL either added 10 lbs of "lean" muscle and didn't lose an "ounce" of speed, OR they lost 10 lbs and are now faster than they've ever been. The math never adds up. Either way, don't expect big differences from Miller just because someone said he gained 10 lbs.

Second point, Miller ran a 4.40 at his combine (while supposedly 10 lbs lighter) and Williams ran a 4.45 at his combine. I'm not sure that makes a huge difference in ability to take it to the house.

Other than straight line speed, I've never seen anything special out of Miller's game. He's not particularly elusive, doesn't break tackles. If he was really that good, wouldn't he have kept Daniel Thomas off the field? That's why I think Williams is such an intriguing target. He doesn't have to be special to replicate Miller's production, which is obviously quite different from the step down you'd expect from Lynch to Turbin.
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Daniel Thomas was a second round bust....and if you notice the moment Ireland left......he was a non factor. In fact he was cut....but Moreno went down....Lamar stepped up and Thomas was barely a factor last season.

Lamar is going to be a stud this season. And fluff piece or not....I was there, in person at many practices this summer. He looks stronger, breaking arm and ankle tackles and has not lost any speed.

 
I think they are both solid backs. Miller is in a contract year and Miami is going to have to maneuver some cap space. Miller is also still very young. I think both have upside and I'm not always an advocate for handcuffs. but if there is a scenario where taking a flier on a handcuff could net 2 starting rbs, this is an ideal scenario.

 
LaMar Miller practiced after missing Wednesday.

Even though Miller should start if he is not 100% backup Miami RB Damien Williams will get more touches.

----------------

Armando Salguero‏@ArmandoSalguero 3h3 hours ago

Lamar Miller is dressed for practice. Dolphins in pads today.

​

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/09/23/dolphins-practice-report-ryan-tannehill-devante-parker-ndamukong-suh/

Dolphins practice report: Lots of injuries, ...

The Dolphins are banged up heading in to their home opener against Buffalo.

Running back Lamar Miller (ankle), ... did not practice on Wednesday...

... If Miller can’t play, the Dolphins will likely start Damien Williams ...
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I have him on one roster as a "cuttable" guy if I need roster space for whatever reason. But my team is so bad I always have someone worse to cut. 

 
Yeah I pretty much think Williams is just a guy. But he is pretty solid all around player and likely better than Daniel Thomas anyways.

The Dolphin obviously would like something more from their second RB. I just don't know if Drake or Pead are good enough to play over Williams this year.

Williams does two things pretty well. Pass block and catch the football. He isn't that nifty of a runner but he does have decent speed.

Combine measurables

I almost took Williams off my list of prospects because of that really bad 3 cone time. There are some other things to like about him though.

 
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Seems like a solid dirt cheap zero RB guy to me. He's one melted Ajayi knee away from competing with Drake for featured carries (and even those who like Drake mostly don't see him as a feature back...and we don't even know if Ajayi is any good yet).

 
Williams has looked dynamite in camp. Everyday he is making play after play after play. Yesterday scored to TD on about a 15 yd pass (from Matt Moore) and then took it 35yd's on the YAC for a td.

I will say it again. IMO he is an Arian Foster injury away from significant playing time this season. IMO he will be the 3rd down back come opening day. He is having a dynamite training camp. He looks much improved from last season in regards to decisiveness and knowledge of the NFL game. I am very impressed so far.

If Foster does go down I see a full blown RBBC with Ajayi and Williams with Williams being the primary pass catching back. So in PPR he will carry a lot more value.

 
I know Ajayi is listed as the RB2..

Jay Ajayi carried the ball three times for 13 yards in Thursday's preseason finale, losing a fumble on the first play of the game.
He also committed a drop. Ajayi's "push" for the Dolphins' starting job went extremely poorly, as he finishes August with 18 carries for 49 yards (2.7 yards). He caught two passes. Ajayi will have a role on offense for Week 1, but it's abundantly clear Arian Foster will be the first choice on all three downs.
 
Its interesting to read stuff like :
 
The reserve back actually outgained both Arian Foster and Jay Ajayi on the ground, while getting into the end zone for the second straight week. Williams should once again fill a complementary role in the backfield in 2016 if he survives final cuts, after having played in all 16 games in each of his first two Dolphins seasons. With some serviceable receiving skills, the OU product offers some third-down value in particular.
 
IF Foster has lost a step..  Think it becomes Damiens job?
 
Dismattle said:
I know Ajayi is listed as the RB2..

Jay Ajayi carried the ball three times for 13 yards in Thursday's preseason finale, losing a fumble on the first play of the game.
He also committed a drop. Ajayi's "push" for the Dolphins' starting job went extremely poorly, as he finishes August with 18 carries for 49 yards (2.7 yards). He caught two passes. Ajayi will have a role on offense for Week 1, but it's abundantly clear Arian Foster will be the first choice on all three downs.
 
Its interesting to read stuff like :
 
The reserve back actually outgained both Arian Foster and Jay Ajayi on the ground, while getting into the end zone for the second straight week. Williams should once again fill a complementary role in the backfield in 2016 if he survives final cuts, after having played in all 16 games in each of his first two Dolphins seasons. With some serviceable receiving skills, the OU product offers some third-down value in particular.
 
IF Foster has lost a step..  Think it becomes Damiens job?
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Yep. Ajayi is not the answer. Williams has busted his tail off this summer. I watched him in camp and looked like a different player. Let's put it this way....if Foster goes down again he becomes a viable flex PPR back.

 
Dismattle said:
I know Ajayi is listed as the RB2..

Jay Ajayi carried the ball three times for 13 yards in Thursday's preseason finale, losing a fumble on the first play of the game.
He also committed a drop. Ajayi's "push" for the Dolphins' starting job went extremely poorly, as he finishes August with 18 carries for 49 yards (2.7 yards). He caught two passes. Ajayi will have a role on offense for Week 1, but it's abundantly clear Arian Foster will be the first choice on all three downs.
 
Its interesting to read stuff like :
 
The reserve back actually outgained both Arian Foster and Jay Ajayi on the ground, while getting into the end zone for the second straight week. Williams should once again fill a complementary role in the backfield in 2016 if he survives final cuts, after having played in all 16 games in each of his first two Dolphins seasons. With some serviceable receiving skills, the OU product offers some third-down value in particular.
 
IF Foster has lost a step..  Think it becomes Damiens job?
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Well it's interesting he has survived the regime change. Thomas is gone. So is Gilislee.

 
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Todem said:
Yep. Ajayi is not the answer. Williams has busted his tail off this summer. I watched him in camp and looked like a different player. Let's put it this way....if Foster goes down again he becomes a viable flex PPR back.
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To me, Williams has always looked impressive in small doses going back 2 or 3 years now, especially in the passing game.   I've been intrigued by him for awhile, I think he's a great post-sleeper, sleeper.

 
tone1oc said:
To me, Williams has always looked impressive in small doses going back 2 or 3 years now, especially in the passing game.   I've been intrigued by him for awhile, I think he's a great post-sleeper, sleeper.
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He's a 3-tool RB, but he's JAG at everything. 

 
I think he's as fine a candidate as anyone to be the undrafted guy that is FF relevant by the end of the year.

Has an injury prone old guy and Jay Ajayi in front of him. If Ajayi puts it on the ground twice in week 1, he might get a look.

Great guy for last roster spot in deep leagues.

 
Todem said:
Williams has looked dynamite in camp. Everyday he is making play after play after play. Yesterday scored to TD on about a 15 yd pass (from Matt Moore) and then took it 35yd's on the YAC for a td.

I will say it again. IMO he is an Arian Foster injury away from significant playing time this season. IMO he will be the 3rd down back come opening day. He is having a dynamite training camp. He looks much improved from last season in regards to decisiveness and knowledge of the NFL game. I am very impressed so far.

If Foster does go down I see a full blown RBBC with Ajayi and Williams with Williams being the primary pass catching back. So in PPR he will carry a lot more value.
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Great post! 

 
I hope Gase stops the merry go round tonight. I know Williams doesn't look like an elite talent but it would be nice to have another useful fantasy RB in the league.

 
Bojang0301 said:
I hope Gase stops the merry go round tonight. I know Williams doesn't look like an elite talent but it would be nice to have another useful fantasy RB in the league.
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Based on history and what he has said in the past, the last thing he wants to do is a merry go round.  Everyone has been some combination of bad/inconsistent/hurt.  It's on Williams to produce, and I believe this situation is ripe for someone to take control.

 
Something I found interesting from Gase's recent press conference is that he said it isn't about who is the most talented RB anymore, but who is producing on the field. I was/am not sure how to interpret that aside from who is practicing the most consistently and doing what he is asking RBs to do.

Williams has been the best in pass protection out of all of the RB although they did praise Jay Ajayi for his work in this area from recent game.

Another thing I found interesting is that he said he isn't satisfied with RB just getting 4 yards on a run, that he wants 12 yards. He blamed himself for being a bit impatient in regards to sticking with the run. I interpret this as he is weighing running plays against passing plays as far as yards gained each play, which obviously favors passing the ball over running the ball. He is looking for more explosive runs when they do run the ball. Drake and Williams have more long speed than Jay Ajayi does, so perhaps he sees them as better options to break a long play if they actually block things well for the RBs.

He did say he would like one RB to emerge from the group and become their main guy. In the meantime he will have RB rotate series until that happens. He also mentions that if a RB is in and they go 3 and out, that he may stick with that RB on the next series, to give them a chance to get in a rhythm.

From my perspective if they are running the ball on 1st and 10. 4 yards should be considered an effective run, yet his comments suggest he isn't satisfied with that. That he wants more explosive runs than this. Honestly I don't see that as a realistic expectation unless they are running the ball infrequently on 1st down. 

He also did say that they need to get better at converting on 3rd down, and that converting 3rd and short distances is easier to do than converting 3rd and long.

A lot of this is obvious. All I could really take out of it is that Gase has not decided what he wants to do as far as play calling and game scripts. If he wants more yards on running plays then the only way to do that is to not run the ball that much, and to run in situations more favorable to getting longer runs, such as on 2nd and 10. However if he does this, then he should expect the offense to be in more 3rd and long situations.

He needs to make up his mind.

 
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Based on that first half.....you can't draw any conclusions....except of how bad this team is.

They are pathetically bad.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
58 yard TD? What happened?

Does Gase know what he's doing with his RB's?
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Virtually the same thing that happened on Foster's 50+ yard reception vs Seattle  (neither went for a TD btw), Williams did nothing special and any RB on their roster would have done the same on that play call against that defense.

 
Dolphins restricted free agent RB Damien Williams is refusing to sign his tender.

Williams is going to lose this battle. Extended an original-pick tender at one year and $1.797 million, Williams wants even more money. Unfortunately for him, no other team signed him to an offer sheet and that deadline to do so passed over a week ago. It's the Dolphins or retirement for Williams. He's refused to report to voluntary workouts. Miami has no reason to budge on this.

 
 
Source: Miami Herald 
May 3 - 12:43 PM
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Hey @Maurile Tremblay is it cool if I ask for insight into your current ranking of Williams, especially so high over Drake, or not? Anyway hopefully so. Thanks.
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Always.

I'm not very confident right now that I have the Dolphins' RB situation pegged correctly at all. Williams has out-snapped and out-touched Drake so far this season. That doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, though, because roles can change when the lead guy departs. (I.e., Williams has out-snapped Drake because Williams is mainly a receiving back and could keep that role while Drake could fill in more of Ajayi's early-down vacancy.) Quotes from coaches seem to indicate that they are high on Drake. Again, that's not dispositive because coaches say lots of things for lots of reasons. (Sometimes the info is good; sometimes it is coach-speak that is misleading on purpose; sometimes it is an honest but incorrect prediction...) On small sample sizes, neither Williams nor Drake has been impressive in the running game this year. Williams has been the better receiver.

My first thought was that it will be a time-share, but that Williams is the more versatile back of the two, and the likely game script of playing from behind will favor his role as a pass-receiver.

I revised my projections today, though, giving Drake more early-down work, and their rankings kind of flipped (from Williams at RB26 and Drake at RB34 to Drake at RB27 and Williams at RB34, standard scoring).

It'll continue to be a moving target...

 
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Seems reasonable to me @Maurile Tremblay. We really haven't seen enough from Drake to know how this is going to play out yet.

Given how bad Miami has been on offense, neither player offers much value. I do expect that they will be throwing the ball a lot more now without Ajayi and that seems to be what Gase has wanted to do all along, just changing his plan to a more run heavy offense last year because what he wants to do was not working.

ChuckLiddell who is a Dolphins fan speculates that Miami may shift to a 70% passing 30% rushing offense in this post maybe that split is a bit too high and it is something more like 65% pass 35% run, but I do think that change is going to happen, partially by design but also out of necessity of game scripts.

So far this season Miami has passed 60% of the time (including sacks so JWB doesn't give me a hard time  :D ) with Ajayi. So that ratio is likely going up in favor of pass attempts,

Miami is averaging 62 plays per game so far, slightly below the current league average of 63 per game. They are not last in the league in total plays anymore as they were a few weeks ago. More pass attempts generally leads to more offensive plays.

If this stays the same, but with a 65% pass ratio, that would be 40 pass attempts per game and 22 rushing attempts per game.

The split in playing time with Ajayi/Williams has been about 70/30 but without Ajayi that split may be more closer to 50/50 than it has been, With Williams likely getting more of the passing down role. I think we need to see how this plays out for a few weeks to really be sure about what kind of a split it will be though.

So far Williams has averaged 3.57 opportunities per game, which is likely going up significantly. Ajayi was averaging 22.57 opportunities per game, so this is likely going down as far as the total RB opportunities moving forward with Williams picking up more. The question is how much more and how many Drake is going to get.

We won't have any hard answers about that until 3 more games are played without Ajayi. I am guessing a more even split as far as that goes between Williams and Drake in the meantime, which I assume is what you are doing as well. Perhaps 12 for Drake and 8 more for Williams out of Ajayis share, which makes them somewhat even, although WIlliams may be getting higher quality passing opportunities than Drake if he is targeted more compared to rushing attempts for Drake.

Drake can catch the ball as well though so they may have a fairly even split as far as the quality of opportunities is concerned instead of more strictly defined roles they had with Ajayi/Williams. Which in that case gets you to where your last projections are, Drake RB 27 and Williams RB 34.

 
How much did MIA use their RBs in their passing game before this trade? Do we expect this to change much? Nothing was stopping Gase from putting WIlliams or Drake in for passing opportunities in the past. So why would he all of a sudden be throwing a lot to Williams? 

Honest question... Williams is more attractive to me because of his pass catching abilities. But I don't know how much I should actually count on that... 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
How much did MIA use their RBs in their passing game before this trade? Do we expect this to change much? Nothing was stopping Gase from putting WIlliams or Drake in for passing opportunities in the past. So why would he all of a sudden be throwing a lot to Williams? 

Honest question... Williams is more attractive to me because of his pass catching abilities. But I don't know how much I should actually count on that... 
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Drake and Williams can both catch passes.  Williams is better at pass pro.

But if they intend to create a screen play both Drake and Williams can be used.

 
It seems like while Williams is the steady veteran, team brass *wants* Drake to take this job. We may see that in the first game post-Ajayi in terms of touch allocation. The question is whether Drake is able to show something behind that OL that Ajayi couldn't. And of course, not turn the ball over.

 
 Today Fantasy Sports) Miami Dolphins RB Damien Williams will serve as the goal line and third down back, according to offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen.

 
Ayaji has (ballpark) 60 runs of 2 yards or less and 80 runs greater than. I've never liked "feast or famine" running backs very much outside of CJ. 

Damien and Drake running normal and predictable should do the linemen a lot of good.

3 yards every carry seems so much easier to work with then stuff, stuff, stuff, 12 yards. 

I bet their line improves, maybe the QB play gets an uptick a little.

Yes a professional should play well every snap and I'm sure the fins have some true pros but the rest of the O- the mental side of being stuffed 2 times in a row and then hearing another run play called. It's gotta be frustrating. It's much easier to wrap your brain around 3 yards each carry

 
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