Dynasty & Redraft: WR Amari Cooper, Cowboys

[ChuckLiddell 622]

4 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

It wasnt a 4 game stretch.  It was an 8 game stretch last year pus the 4 this year.  He blew up in week 8 and has disappeared from relevance ever since.  He has been unstartable for 12 games.  If you want to add in the 4 games prior to his 12 games of patheticness, feel free.  The average for 16 games will still suck.

His 4 games prior to sucking were actually pretty spectacular.  He had 7 less total yards in those 4 games than he had in the next 12.  With those added in, over last 16 games he is:

75 - 945 - 6

Doesnt suck, but certainly is not what those ranking him as a top 5 dynasty asset expected, and the trend is a very very steep decline in production.

 

[thatguythere 74]

Hopefully they just sit him and let him rest if he is dinged up.   Make everyone's decisions much easier.

[Gottabesweet 960]

3 minutes ago, thatguythere said:

Hopefully they just sit him and let him rest if he is dinged up.   Make everyone's decisions much easier.

I think they keep trotting him out there with EJ starting even more so.  He needs all the "help" he can get even if it's Cooper at 50%

EJ will just keep throwing to Lee Smith.

[jvdesigns2002 3,137]

1 hour ago, Sarlakticacid said:

Got Will Fuller for him in re draft. Holding In my dynasty

Wow- I get that Amari hasn't performed up to par, and I do like Fuller- but this seems like a brutal sell low in regards to value.  My guess is that people that had not drafted Amari are probably less in tune with how bad he's been. Sure- they can look at game logs- but 4 weeks probably isn't enough for a non Amari owner to think that a 2nd-3rd guy is worthless. I think his namesake and ADP alone are worth more than Fuller at this very point in time. I probably would have aimed higher. Good luck.

[Gottabesweet 960]

6 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Wow- I get that Amari hasn't performed up to par, and I do like Fuller- but this seems like a brutal sell low in regards to value.  My guess is that people that had not drafted Amari are probably less in tune with how bad he's been. Sure- they can look at game logs- but 4 weeks probably isn't enough for a non Amari owner to think that a 2nd-3rd guy is worthless. I think his namesake and ADP alone are worth more than Fuller at this very point in time. I probably would have aimed higher. Good luck.

Seems like people either love him or hate him no in-between.

I'm holding unless I can get $0.75 on the $

[ILUVBEER99 1,369]

In re-draft could see selling a bit low.  No way in dynasty.  One big week and he basically regains all his perceived value back.

[Hankmoody 3,739]

1 hour ago, ldizzle said:

There was a 4 game stretch at the end of last year and 3 stinkers this year. Why 12 games though? Why not 16 or his whole short career? Like I said, if you expect him to be a WR1 that's on you. It's a long season, and there is no reason to sell him for peanuts when you can take a wait and see approach with a guy that has been a decent WR2 in the past

Good question.

Last 16 games: 4.7 Rec/G    59.1 Yards/G    0.4 TD/G = 75/945/6 for 16 game season = 12.9 PPG

Last 32 games:  4.5    62.3    0.3 = 71.5/997/5 = 12.6 PPG

Career: 4.6    64.8    0.3 =     74.2/1036.9/5.3 = 13.1 PPG

Why is it "on him" to expect Cooper to be a WR1?  His ADP put him in the top 12 WR drafted everywhere I saw.  He was a mid-late 2nd/early 3rd guy, so if you went Bell or Zeke in early 1 you're absolutely counting on your 2nd rounder to be a WR1.  His PPG numbers above put him in the WR29-36 range based on 2016 final results.  So not even "decent WR2" in the timeframes referenced.

I don't see anyone selling for peanuts unless you consider WR2 prices as peanuts, in which case he's selling for more than what he's actually produced.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Hankmoody

[ldizzle 160]

2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Good question.

Last 16 games: 4.7 Rec/G    59.1 Yards/G    0.4 TD/G = 75/945/6 for 16 game season = 12.9 PPG

Last 32 games:  4.5    62.3    0.3 = 71.5/997/5 = 12.6 PPG

Career: 4.6    64.8    0.3 =     74.2/1036.9/5.3 = 13.1 PPG

Why is it "on him" to expect Cooper to be a WR1?  His ADP put him in the top 12 WR drafted everywhere I saw.  He was a mid-late 2nd/early 3rd guy, so if you went Bell or Zeke in early 1 you're absolutely counting on your 2nd rounder to be a WR1.  His PPG numbers above put him in the WR29-36 range based on 2016 final results.  So not even "decent WR2" in the timeframes referenced.

I don't see anyone selling for peanuts unless you consider WR2 prices as peanuts, in which case he's selling for more than what he's actually produced.

If you drafted him to be a WR1 when he's been nothing but an ok at best WR2, then you took a risk and reached. If you drafted him as a WR2(which is what he is at this point and has been), he's been bad. But WR2s aren't studs and have bad weeks. 

Selling for Fuller I think is selling for peanuts

Edited October 5, 2017 by ldizzle

[Hankmoody 3,739]

4 hours ago, ldizzle said:

If you drafted him to be a WR1 when he's been nothing but an ok at best WR2, then you took a risk and reached. If you drafted him as a WR2(which is what he is at this point and has been), he's been bad. But WR2s aren't studs and have bad weeks. 

Selling for Fuller I think is selling for peanuts

Fair enough, I didn't catch that connotation the first time I read your post, not sure why because I do agree with that sentiment.  I've been critical of Cooper for a long time now and he was nowhere near my list at that point of the draft.  But I'm sure those that drafted him there were certainly expecting him to continue progressing, which isn't at all uncommon, and once it got going most owners felt as though they had to keep up with ADP if they wanted him.

[Sarlakticacid 623]

5 hours ago, ldizzle said:

If you drafted him to be a WR1 when he's been nothing but an ok at best WR2, then you took a risk and reached. If you drafted him as a WR2(which is what he is at this point and has been), he's been bad. But WR2s aren't studs and have bad weeks. 

Selling for Fuller I think is selling for peanuts

Should have mentioned i also have Crabtree on that roster

[boilerdave 604]

I'm starting Cooper this week....but only because of other options on bye.

[FF Ninja 2,842]

17 hours ago, ldizzle said:

If you drafted him to be a WR1 when he's been nothing but an ok at best WR2, then you took a risk and reached. If you drafted him as a WR2(which is what he is at this point and has been), he's been bad. But WR2s aren't studs and have bad weeks. 

Selling for Fuller I think is selling for peanuts

He was not on my radar but I couldn't let him go for a low-end WR2 price (sometimes weird things happen in auctions), so I got him as my WR3 and I'd classify him as a bad WR3. Three out of four games have been total duds.

I honestly don't care that much since I've got better WR3 options, but I do think he'll turn it around once Carr returns. Yes, his last 8 games of 2016 were relatively crappy, but Carr and Crabtree also saw their stats fall way off in those games. Cooper goes as the Oakland offense goes. He's not some super stud that can overcome a tepid offense. So sell him if you think Oakland is going to suck for the whole season or hold him if you think they'll play roughly around the level they have the past two years. Lynch is still running hard and breaking tackles. That offensive line is still stacked with talent. Crabtree still has it. Jared Cook even looks pretty good.

[Dr. Octopus 15,702]

22 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

His 4 games prior to sucking were actually pretty spectacular.  He had 7 less total yards in those 4 games than he had in the next 12.  With those added in, over last 16 games he is:

75 - 945 - 6

Doesnt suck, but certainly is not what those ranking him as a top 5 dynasty asset expected, and the trend is a very very steep decline in production.

 

At 23 years old with having battled through some injuries? And that's with using a bad stretch of games - with some of them having a subpar QB under center.

I don't own him anywhere but if people are selling out of panic, I'd be buying.

[Sarlakticacid 623]

It was the Baltimore game in his rookie season that he arrived. I think

 

from memory they were supposed to be a staunch D that year but after Cooper tore em apart they couldn't recover 

 

will It happen again...

[Andrew74 948]

On 10/5/2017 at 8:52 AM, ChuckLiddell said:

And the second half of last year too?  Its been a long stretch of games, over two seasons that he has been unstartable.

I am pretty sure he got dinged up last year and then he faded. At least that's what my old man brain remembers. 

If that was true, and he's playing poorly this year due to injury, that raises the question of being "injury prone."  IIRC, he faded his rookie year, too, after getting banged up. 

Either way he's super disappointing to me. 

[ChuckLiddell 622]

1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

At 23 years old with having battled through some injuries? And that's with using a bad stretch of games - with some of them having a subpar QB under center.

I don't own him anywhere but if people are selling out of panic, I'd be buying.

You are one of my favorite posters on these boards, but I have no idea what you are questioning with regard to the quoted post.  He has most certainly not looked like a top 5 WR dynasty asset, which was my point.  Do you think he still is a top 5 dynasty WR asset?  I dont.  I dont think he is top 10.  Top 20 may be arguable at this point.  Lots of WR play through injuries.  Most of them probably are by week 9.  He plays in a top offense, where Michael Crabtree (who flamed out in SF) has significantly outperformed him over the last 12 games, if not longer - yes a "bad stretch of games" - but we aren't talking about a 3-4 bad game stretch here.  12 games is 3/4 of a regular season.  That's a legit sample size to make some determinations from.

I agree that if people are panic selling him for guys like Will Fuller in dynasty, then I would be in based on future upside.  But if you are arguing with my comment that he is not a top 5 dynasty WR asset, then we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Dr. Octopus 15,702]

5 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

You are one of my favorite posters on these boards, but I have no idea what you are questioning with regard to the quoted post.  He has most certainly not looked like a top 5 WR dynasty asset, which was my point.  Do you think he still is a top 5 dynasty WR asset?  I dont.  I dont think he is top 10.  Top 20 may be arguable at this point.  Lots of WR play through injuries.  Most of them probably are by week 9.  He plays in a top offense, where Michael Crabtree (who flamed out in SF) has significantly outperformed him over the last 12 games, if not longer - yes a "bad stretch of games" - but we aren't talking about a 3-4 bad game stretch here.  12 games is 3/4 of a regular season.  That's a legit sample size to make some determinations from.

I agree that if people are panic selling him for guys like Will Fuller in dynasty, then I would be in based on future upside.  But if you are arguing with my comment that he is not a top 5 dynasty WR asset, then we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I should have cropped the quote better - my comments were directed toward the 16 game stretch. You picked his worst 16 game stretch and still put up decent numbers. For a 23 year old WR that played some of those games injured and with McGloin at QB, it didn't seem so bad.

I never had him ranked as a top 5 WR - since I don't push the "old" guys out as quick as some. I do think he has talent and upside though - so I would buy at the right price.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

There's a serious problem.

[Faust 5,013]

Amari Cooper reeled in one catch for eight yards on two targets Sunday in the Raiders’ Week 5 loss to the Ravens.

This is rock bottom for Cooper, who has now caught a grand total of four passes for 23 yards over his last three games. E.J. Manuel barely even acknowledged Cooper, who caught his first and only pass with 12 minutes remaining in the fourth quarter. Cooper should, at least in theory, get a boost from the return of Derek Carr next week. With that in mind, it’s hard to trust him on any level given his recent struggles. Coop gets the Chargers at home in Week 6.

 

[DocHolliday 3,933]

2 minutes ago, Faust said:

 

 

I have no idea what is going on with him this season.  It makes no sense.  

[BigBlue_RI 155]

I need this guy to get right. Lost OBJ today. I can't be relying on Alshon Jeffrey and Devin Funchess each week.

[Nero 165]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:03 AM, ldizzle said:

The guy had back to back 1000 yd seasons. Had two crappy games and one of them was against DEN. His drops are inexcusable, but there is a lot of overreacting going on here. If you drafted him to be your #1 that's your fault because he's never been a WR1 and you drafted him above his value (redraft).

 

Show me one player in the last 10 years that started out their career with back to back 1000 yd seasons and then completely flopped. He's a definite hold for me and a really good buy low.

 

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:20 AM, matttyl said:

While I agree with what you're saying, this is a bit of a trick question here.  Only 7 players in the last 10 years have had a 1,000 receiving yard rookie season - AJ Green, K Allen, Beckham, Evans, K Benjamin, Cooper, and last year M Thomas.  You might want to look at a longer window than just 10 years, and possibly loosen up the "1,000" yard threshold and a few names might start coming up. 

He has company this year in Sammy Watkins, Allen Hurns, Allen Robinson and Josh Gordon.  They don't exactly fit the profile, but they all could be on their way.

[Sarlakticacid 623]

On 10/6/2017 at 4:12 AM, ldizzle said:

If you drafted him to be a WR1 when he's been nothing but an ok at best WR2, then you took a risk and reached. If you drafted him as a WR2(which is what he is at this point and has been), he's been bad. But WR2s aren't studs and have bad weeks. 

Selling for Fuller I think is selling for peanuts

Peanuts = TDs right?

jokes aside i have Crabtree and TY who are my WR 1 and 2, Cooper was 3 rotation with Fitz. Only thing that would make me think otherwise was draft capital investment but that was 2 months ago And in redraft it doesn't count for much imho 

I had hoped Fuller may dominate RZ targets and deep game with Watson improving too

 

 

[Bojang0301 2,246]

2 hours ago, BigBlue_RI said:

I need this guy to get right. Lost OBJ today. I can't be relying on Alshon Jeffrey and Devin Funchess each week.

Devin Funchess is a fantasy #2 WR right now. His production is not a flash in the pan. He’s seen his target share be consistently high all season. He’s a valuable asset.

[voiceofunreason 1,025]

Just a week closer to his epic comeback. 

[SameSongNDance 7,014]

On 10/5/2017 at 9:35 AM, Sarlakticacid said:

Got Will Fuller for him in re draft. Holding In my dynasty

Fantastic trade, good job.

[Super King 443]

I benched him for Fuller. Got me the win. Still holding him, though. 

[Sarlakticacid 623]

2 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

Fantastic trade, good job.

I got lucky

[Soulfly3 4,386]

That ain't Cooper out there.

One day, sooner than later, a reason will emerge.

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

3 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

That ain't Cooper out there.

One day, sooner than later, a reason will emerge.

 

Pretty obvious, I’m guessing. The QBs don’t trust his hands.  He’s going to have to do what James Jones did and sink a ton of time and effort into fixing his drops problem.  Until then he’s going to play way below his potential.

[Soulfly3 4,386]

2 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Pretty obvious, I’m guessing. The QBs don’t trust his hands.  He’s going to have to do what James Jones did and sink a ton of time and effort into fixing his drops problem.  Until then he’s going to play way below his potential.

I dunno if that's it.

The guy is a crisp route runner, great teammate, and I dont recall ever seeing his hands be a problem (prior to this season, of course).

The man has every single tool a top WR needs. Ive been swooning since Bama. 

There is something causing the drops. And it's a sudden reason, as well. With Crabs out there, the pressue is off, he cant be doubled etc... So what's causing it

[LawFitz 1,071]

Good luck finding it now in the Youtube rabbit hole, but late this preseason I was doing yardwork listening to YT and in my feed came an interview with Tim Brown. They talked various Raider topics and Amari came up. Tim was very complimentary of Cooper and said the reason for his fall off his first two seasons was the he was playing seriously banged up to end both years. The hosts stopped him and asked if Cooper's healthy now. Tim hesitated and then gave a very unconvincing yes to the question. It stood out to me as ominous.

All season long Amari has been limited in practice with a mysterious knee issue. I suspect this goes back to last season. If I recall he had some nagging injuries in college as well. Dude doesn't seem right physically, and it's clearly affecting him mentally. Really starting to feel like a lost season for Cooper and the Raiders.

[voiceofunreason 1,025]

11 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Good luck finding it now in the Youtube rabbit hole, but late this preseason I was doing yardwork listening to YT and in my feed came an interview with Tim Brown. They talked various Raider topics and Amari came up. Tim was very complimentary of Cooper and said the reason for his fall off his first two seasons was the he was playing seriously banged up to end both years. The hosts stopped him and asked if Cooper's healthy now. Tim hesitated and then gave a very unconvincing yes to the question. It stood out to me as ominous.

All season long Amari has been limited in practice with a mysterious knee issue. I suspect this goes back to last season. If I recall he had some nagging injuries in college as well. Dude doesn't seem right physically, and it's clearly affecting him mentally. Really starting to feel like a lost season for Cooper and the Raiders.

I think he's got some Watkins to him. The guy is always hurt. Not sure that's an excuse for the drops though.

 

[We Tigers 109]

On 10/9/2017 at 8:32 AM, Soulfly3 said:

That ain't Cooper out there.

One day, sooner than later, a reason will emerge.

The good Cooper is in the Lodge, and he can't leave...

[Gandalf 520]

I'm 95% sure I'm benching Cooper this week for McCaffrey in my FLEX spot fyi

Edited October 11, 2017 by Gandalf

[Gottabesweet 960]

Has Cooper been interviewed? Haven't seen anything on his explanation. Even though it's mostly player-speak. I'm curious if the media is saying anything out there? 

[ffjunk 194]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:57 PM, LawFitz said:

Good luck finding it now in the Youtube rabbit hole, but late this preseason I was doing yardwork listening to YT and in my feed came an interview with Tim Brown. They talked various Raider topics and Amari came up. Tim was very complimentary of Cooper and said the reason for his fall off his first two seasons was the he was playing seriously banged up to end both years. The hosts stopped him and asked if Cooper's healthy now. Tim hesitated and then gave a very unconvincing yes to the question. It stood out to me as ominous.

All season long Amari has been limited in practice with a mysterious knee issue. I suspect this goes back to last season. If I recall he had some nagging injuries in college as well. Dude doesn't seem right physically, and it's clearly affecting him mentally. Really starting to feel like a lost season for Cooper and the Raiders.

Found it. Starts around the 11:10 mark.

[Biabreakable 5,096]

15 hours ago, We Tigers said:

The good Cooper is in the Lodge, and he can't leave...

[ILUVBEER99 1,369]

2 hours ago, ffjunk said:

Found it. Starts around the 11:10 mark.

Interesting. There is obviously something going on with Cooper.  Tim Brown was saying that he knows things that not everyone knows regarding him. Something physical or mental is happening with Cooper.  Wish he woulda shared the details but of course, he can't.

[SameSongNDance 7,014]

3 hours ago, ffjunk said:

Found it. Starts around the 11:10 mark.

Well, it's nice to finally get an explanation as to why he essentially disappeared during the second half of last year. I always assumed it was because Carr liked to spread the ball around but this makes more sense. Maybe he has a hard time playing through even minor nicks. The aspect of durability everyone tends to focus on is how often someone gets injured but since essentially everyone gets dinged up at some point during the season, a player's ability to play through a relatively minor injury and continue to perform at a high level is important as well.

[ahartig 295]

Well. I thought I had just bought low on cooper by trading gallman and fuller for him in 0.5 ppr redraft. DJ and OBJ owner so I’m swinging for the fences hoping cooper returns to form..... but after reading the last two pages of this thread I feel like I may have just made a big mistake. Does he look bad on tape this year? During his routes? Cutting? Etc... has there need any analysis on that?

or is it all about the drops....

 

ugh

Edited October 12, 2017 by ahartig

[Faust 5,013]

5 reasons fantasy football owners shouldn't give up on Amari Cooper yet

[ahartig 295]

4 hours ago, ffjunk said:

Found it. Starts around the 11:10 mark.

I dunno. Doesn’t sound that fishy to me. Sounds like Tim Brown was in a thought and then the guy caught him off guard because Tim couldn’t hear him for a second. 

[kyoun1e 896]

8 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

Well, it's nice to finally get an explanation as to why he essentially disappeared during the second half of last year. I always assumed it was because Carr liked to spread the ball around but this makes more sense. Maybe he has a hard time playing through even minor nicks. The aspect of durability everyone tends to focus on is how often someone gets injured but since essentially everyone gets dinged up at some point during the season, a player's ability to play through a relatively minor injury and continue to perform at a high level is important as well.

Brown was quoted as saying, "He's definitely healthy now."

On to this week. Big question is who does C. Heyward cover? Last year, Cooper played LAC twice. First time he laid an egg with 1-28. I assume Heyward covered him. Second game, Cooper blew up.

If he's healthy, and Carr is back, AND Heyward is on Crabtree, I'm starting Cooper. 

[beerbuff 485]

On 10/9/2017 at 5:32 AM, Soulfly3 said:

That ain't Cooper out there.

One day, sooner than later, a reason will emerge.

Here's the reason. Cooper is waiting for an inanimate object AKA the ball to find him, rather than him going out and looking for the ball.

Headlines from NBC Sports story: Raiders receiver Amari Cooper says the ball will eventually find him....

[Sarlakticacid 623]

9 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Brown was quoted as saying, "He's definitely healthy now."

On to this week. Big question is who does C. Heyward cover? Last year, Cooper played LAC twice. First time he laid an egg with 1-28. I assume Heyward covered him. Second game, Cooper blew up.

If he's healthy, and Carr is back, AND Heyward is on Crabtree, I'm starting Cooper. 

Did they face Verrett before he got hurt?

[Faust 5,013]

Amari Cooper's struggles, Jaguars' NFL-best secondary, more

[kyoun1e 896]

17 minutes ago, Faust said:

Amari Cooper's struggles, Jaguars' NFL-best secondary, more

Very interesting.

Not sure if the staff has had the chance to do this with Carr on the shelf.

I never see Cooper move. He seems to just sit out there out wide. Get creative Del Rio you #######.

[SameSongNDance 7,014]

I've been watching his snaps, it's honestly one of the oddest things I've ever seen. He can't catch anything, even the most simple passes. If I didn't know any better I would think that this guy either a) has a broken hand or b) has never played the position before. It's in fact insane. 

[tombonneau 985]

1 hour ago, Faust said:

Amari Cooper's struggles, Jaguars' NFL-best secondary, more

Very insightful article. One would hope if Bucky Brooks can uncover this #### with All-22 Raiders coaching staff should be able to do same. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by tombonneau