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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Amari Cooper, Cowboys


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1 hour ago, az_prof said:

In a 12 team league a WR1 by definition is top 12. He was top 12 in 2019 and 2016.  How do you define WR1?

Amari Cooper has not finished in the top 12 wr in average fp/g within the last 3 years. link is posted a few posts up

 

ETA: even in 2016. Cooper has never finished as a top 12 wr in fp/g. he may have finished top 12 in total points, but that doesnt account for injuries, especially when a guy misses a week or two and clearly a better WR

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15 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Amari Cooper has not finished in the top 12 wr in average fp/g within the last 3 years. link is posted a few posts up

 

ETA: even in 2016. Cooper has never finished as a top 12 wr in fp/g. he may have finished top 12 in total points, but that doesnt account for injuries, especially when a guy misses a week or two and clearly a better WR

He’s top 10 in WR points in my league this year. That’s top 10.  We aren’t talking about top 10 adjusted for all the times other guys were hurt or missed games or parts of games.  Top 10 is top 10.  
 

That’s a pretty good player to own. Helped win me a championship.  :shrug: 

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

He’s top 10 in WR points in my league this year. That’s top 10.  We aren’t talking about top 10 adjusted for all the times other guys were hurt or missed games or parts of games.  Top 10 is top 10.  
 

That’s a pretty good player to own. Helped win me a championship.  :shrug: 

Two ways of looking at it- total points or average fp/g for the fantasy season. 

The later takes into account a better wr who may have sat a week or two and is a better representation of talent IMO. 

 

Perfect example: Davante Adams is a top 12 WR, correct? He performed as a WR1 this season, correct? Would you say he was better, when active, than Cooper? He finished 26th for total points but was WR7 in ppg. 

Tyreek Hill is another example (I forgot he got hurt!). played 11 games and was WR31 for the season, but wr10 in ppg. 

 

IMO looking at total fp isnt seeing the forest for the trees. Not saying Cooper is bad, but statistically, using ppg, he has never finished as a wr1, yet he is valued as one almost everywhere...  could be a great opportunity to cash in for some. 

Sure, being healthy/active for a full 16 games has value, but I think we have to take into account a better wr who may have had a minor injury or two. Those guys, if healthy an entire season, likely would have finished higher than Cooper- pushing him down

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

Two ways of looking at it- total points or average fp/g for the fantasy season. 

The later takes into account a better wr who may have sat a week or two and is a better representation of talent IMO. 

 

Perfect example: Davante Adams is a top 12 WR, correct? He performed as a WR1 this season, correct? Would you say he was better, when active, than Cooper? He finished 26th for total points but was WR7 in ppg. 

Tyreek Hill is another example (I forgot he got hurt!). played 11 games and was WR31 for the season, but wr10 in ppg. 

 

IMO looking at total fp isnt seeing the forest for the trees. Not saying Cooper is bad, but statistically, using ppg, he has never finished as a wr1, yet he is valued as one almost everywhere...  could be a great opportunity to cash in for some. 

Sure, being healthy/active for a full 16 games has value, but I think we have to take into account a better wr who may have had a minor injury or two. Those guys, if healthy an entire season, likely would have finished higher than Cooper- pushing him down

And if the queen had balls, she’d be king. 
 

I don’t give extra credit for guys being hurt. 
 

Cooper is a top 10 wide receiver this year by the most typical way of looking at it. Sure you can change the math if you like. You can give extra credit for guys getting hurt. Take away credit for guys being healthy. You can do top 10 guys on Sunday. Or just on Monday. Or Monday and Thursday. Or top 10 taking out the long catches. Or the TDS. Or the fluke plays. 
 

You can play any math game you like. Cooper is top 10. 

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1 minute ago, Otis said:

And if the queen had balls, she’d be king. 
 

I don’t give extra credit for guys being hurt. 
 

Cooper is a top 10 wide receiver this year by the most typical way of looking at it. Sure you can change the math if you like. You can give extra credit for guys getting hurt. Take away credit for guys being healthy. You can do top 10 guys on Sunday. Or just on Monday. Or Monday and Thursday. Or top 10 taking out the long catches. Or the TDS. Or the fluke plays. 
 

You can play any math game you like. Cooper is top 10. 

WTF are you blabbering about? Would you rather start the guy getting 17 PPG or the guy getting 15? Getting hurt and missing games doesn't matter to you? So you probably wouldn't start Hill because his total points number is lower? Yeah that's brilliant. 

These aren't math games. Nobody is making stuff up here. PPG is the best metric we have. Total points isn't terrible and has it's uses as well. And yes Cooper helped a lot of people this year. The difference between WR14 and WR12 is marginal. I get your point that he has value but get real with the math game comments. There's nothing strange about using PPG. It *is* strange to not use it, though.

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yeah I dont understand the math games comment. ppg is largely used in the fantasy community as one of the best ways to determine positional rankings. 

Otis' post proves my point, some people out there will view this guy as a top 10wr easily without discussion, when in reality using ppg he has never finished there. 

Hinderlys December Dynasty Value Chart has Cooper identical to Tyreek Hill, yet Hill has outscored Cooper in the years they played together by 17.2 ppg compared to 13.9. "But 2017 was an anomaly"... take that year out and he is still at only 15 ppg. Looking at Coopers historical stats, 15ppg seems about where he belongs. 

Per Hinderlys chart, a fair trade is Cooper for Diggs and a high 2020 2nd.

DTC has Diggs + 1.8 = Cooper 

Diggs is a averaging 15.1 ppg over the last 4 seasons compared to Coopers 13.9 (or 15.0 if you want to take out Coopers 2017). 

 

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

yeah I dont understand the math games comment. ppg is largely used in the fantasy community as one of the best ways to determine positional rankings. 

Otis' post proves my point, some people out there will view this guy as a top 10wr easily without discussion, when in reality using ppg he has never finished there. 

Hinderlys December Dynasty Value Chart has Cooper identical to Tyreek Hill, yet Hill has outscored Cooper in the years they played together by 17.2 ppg compared to 13.9. "But 2017 was an anomaly"... take that year out and he is still at only 15 ppg. Looking at Coopers historical stats, 15ppg seems about where he belongs. 

Per Hinderlys chart, a fair trade is Cooper for Diggs and a high 2020 2nd.

DTC has Diggs + 1.8 = Cooper 

Diggs is a averaging 15.1 ppg over the last 4 seasons compared to Coopers 13.9 (or 15.0 if you want to take out Coopers 2017). 

 

Sounds like a profitable trade. 1.8 even better. If I could move Cooper for that I would snap it. I only own him in one spot but would really love to get rid of him. I hold the 1.10 and wonder if Cooper plus 1.10 would get me the 1.01 or 1.02, and if I might even get a little throw in on top. I'm sort of doubting most people want to pay for Cooper, and I'm also doubting most people want to give up the 1.01 or 1.02. 

Anyone here that would move Cooper straight for the 1.01?

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6 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Sounds like a profitable trade. 1.8 even better. If I could move Cooper for that I would snap it. I only own him in one spot but would really love to get rid of him. I hold the 1.10 and wonder if Cooper plus 1.10 would get me the 1.01 or 1.02, and if I might even get a little throw in on top. I'm sort of doubting most people want to pay for Cooper, and I'm also doubting most people want to give up the 1.01 or 1.02. 

Anyone here that would move Cooper straight for the 1.01?

FWIW, DTC has Diggs worth 1.1 today...

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I believe in looking at a range of metrics and so PPG is one useful metric. But to use it as an absolute is faulty. Here's why. What if one player plays through an injury and as a result gets fewer points per game?  Yet they were delivering you some points and depending on how many could well have helped your team?  I have Will Dissly who is TE34 on the season in total points but TE9 in PPG.  Is he really a top 10 TE?  No. Is he really an irrelevent TE, which is what a TE34 is? No. He is somewhere in between and you have to apply some common sense when looking at numbers.Tyler Higbee ended up almost 3 ppg less than Dissly but he played most of the year and delivered pretty good production down the stretch and through the playoffs. I value Higbee more going forward.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

yeah I dont understand the math games comment. ppg is largely used in the fantasy community as one of the best ways to determine positional rankings. 

Otis' post proves my point, some people out there will view this guy as a top 10wr easily without discussion, when in reality using ppg he has never finished there. 

Hinderlys December Dynasty Value Chart has Cooper identical to Tyreek Hill, yet Hill has outscored Cooper in the years they played together by 17.2 ppg compared to 13.9. "But 2017 was an anomaly"... take that year out and he is still at only 15 ppg. Looking at Coopers historical stats, 15ppg seems about where he belongs. 

Per Hinderlys chart, a fair trade is Cooper for Diggs and a high 2020 2nd.

DTC has Diggs + 1.8 = Cooper 

Diggs is a averaging 15.1 ppg over the last 4 seasons compared to Coopers 13.9 (or 15.0 if you want to take out Coopers 2017). 

 

Comparing Diggs vs Cooper long term is tough. Production is close over five years.

Player 1: 353 receptions/5005 yards/33 TDs

Player 2: 365/4623/30 TDs

Slight edge to Player 1 for ypc and TDs? That would be Cooper. But really, the differential over five years is minimal.

So then you look at situation.  Neither have played with great QBs or in great systems IMO.  And there is uncertainty for both. Diggs was complaining about usage earlier this year. Cooper's contract is unresolved for next year.  Diggs is signed in MN for a long time but his QB situation is cloudy bec Cousins has not lived up to expectations but is under contract too for a long time. 

Third criteria would be body type and style of play. I prefer big receivers with speed like Cooper to smaller, quicker receivers like Diggs because in my experience they have great consistency and longer careers.  But the league is changing so that's probably a push.

I would say these two players are about equal in value and it really is a question of preference and also situation. I probably wouldn't want to trade for Cooper until I know where he is playing next year. His value could go up, go down, or if he stays in Dallas, remain the same. That uncertainy would make me wary of trading a lot for him but if you could buy him below market because his owner worries about Dallas situation, then go for it.

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Quote

Amari Cooper said he wants to re-sign with the Cowboys.

"I like it here," Cooper told reporters. "I want to be here." The Cowboys failed to get a deal with Cooper done during the season, but keeping him in Dallas remains a priority. Depending on what the Cowboys do with Dak Prescott, Cooper may be a candidate for the franchise tag if something long-term can't be worked out.

SOURCE: Jori Epstein on Twitter

Dec 27, 2019, 7:10 PM ET

 

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On 12/26/2019 at 10:22 AM, az_prof said:

I believe in looking at a range of metrics and so PPG is one useful metric. But to use it as an absolute is faulty. Here's why. What if one player plays through an injury and as a result gets fewer points per game?  Yet they were delivering you some points and depending on how many could well have helped your team?  I have Will Dissly who is TE34 on the season in total points but TE9 in PPG.  Is he really a top 10 TE?  No. Is he really an irrelevent TE, which is what a TE34 is? No. He is somewhere in between and you have to apply some common sense when looking at numbers.Tyler Higbee ended up almost 3 ppg less than Dissly but he played most of the year and delivered pretty good production down the stretch and through the playoffs. I value Higbee more going forward.

I agree completely. Context is everything. I will sometimes adjust PPG to take out games where a player gets hurt early for example. Early in the season this can be especially useful when we are trying to predict where team and player arcs are headed. 

I think PPG is the most basic and largely most useful metric, but only one of many. 

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Impending free agent WR Amari Cooper reiterated he wants to play for the Cowboys for a "long time."

Cooper told NFL Network's Jane Slater that his agent has yet to open talks with Dallas, though it's clear the fifth-year wideout feels most comfortable in Big D. Though his team underachieved, the 25-year-old was a bright spot for the Cowboys in 2019, setting career-highs in both yards (1,179) and touchdowns (eight). The Cowboys have some tough financial decisions ahead of them with Cooper, Dak Prescott and Byron Jones all slated to hit free agency, though luckily they'll have the fifth-most cap space to work with ($81.06 million).

SOURCE: Jane Slater on Twitter

Jan 23, 2020, 2:15 PM ET

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sarlakticacid said:

Did not cooper miss a game or 2 as well?

No, lived on injury report most of second half of the year but did not miss a game.

16 hours ago, metoo said:

Cooper: 79 rec, 1189 yds, 119 targets

WR2?:   66 rec, 1107 yds, 112 targets, missed two games

Honestly asking what is point being made here?

 

 

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7 hours ago, menobrown said:

No, lived on injury report most of second half of the year but did not miss a game.

Honestly asking what is point being made here?

 

 

I think he's a WR2 being treated like a WR1.

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6 hours ago, metoo said:

I think he's a WR2 being treated like a WR1.

Thanks for answering, not how I see it based on those stats.

Gallup is good, I think one of the more underrated players, but I would caution against assuming they saw the same coverage/attention and Coopers production, on a per target basis, is actually pretty good. It's just an offense that spreads the ball around a lot.  Because they spread the ball around so much and Cooper only got 7.4 targets a game I think it's a very strong argument Dallas should not resign him, but I don't think that makes Cooper a WR2.

 

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Speaking in a Thursday radio interview, impending free agent Amari Cooper said he wanted to remain a Cowboy "for life."

"I love being a Dallas Cowboy," Cooper said. "I think about it almost every day. Just the aura of being a Dallas Cowboy, you can’t beat it. I want to be a Dallas Cowboy for life." They're just words, but it is also a stronger statement than you would typically get from a player 13 days from free agency. Cooper is putting the ball in the Cowboys' court. With Dak Prescott set to be franchise tagged, Cooper cannot be transitioned tagged because of the current CBA negotiations. Owner Jerry Jones isn't the sort who would normally let Cooper walk away, but there aren't going to be any hometown discounts being handed out on Cooper's end.

SOURCE: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com

Mar 5, 2020, 11:16 PM ET

 

 

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Rotoworld take:

Quote

Cowboys re-signed WR Amari Cooper to a five-year, $100 million contract.

Cooper reportedly turned down "significantly" more money from the Redskins in order to re-up in Dallas for $20 million annually and $60 million guaranteed, slightly less than Julio Jones' $22 million per year and $64 million guaranteed. This extension was still a no-brainer as the 25-year-old stormed out to an overall WR4 ranking for fantasy through Dallas' first nine games then stumbled down the stretch, suddenly casting doubt on his future with the organization. Those last seven no-shows can arguably be attributed to his struggles through knee and ankle injuries over the final two months of the season. Expect the Cowboys to lock up Dak Prescott with their next lucrative deal, whenever that may be.

RELATED: 

Washington Redskins

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Mar 16, 2020, 10:57 PM ET

 

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6 hours ago, Insein said:

They have guaranteed $65m to 3 guys next year. That leaves about $2.66m per player left for the rest of the team. 

The old CBA had a rule against backloading contracts. The new CBA does not. Cooper contract will probably have a small 2020 base with large signing bonus, i.e his 2020 cap number will be closer to 10 than 20.

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51 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

10m cap hit this year is what I’ve seen so far

Where are you getting 65 guaranteed for 3 players?

Went by base salary of the contracts. So only $55m then. $15m for Zeke, $10m for Cooper and $30m for Dak. 

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12 minutes ago, Insein said:

Went by base salary of the contracts. So only $55m then. $15m for Zeke, $10m for Cooper and $30m for Dak. 

I think Zekes cap hit for ‘20 is just under 11m. I’ve read that was restructured already but don’t have details 

No offense, but you’re off by quite a bit in here I think

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34 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I think Zekes cap hit for ‘20 is just under 11m. I’ve read that was restructured already but don’t have details 

No offense, but you’re off by quite a bit in here I think

Not much. If Zeke is $11m and Cooper $10 and Dak 30, that's still $51m for 3 players. Plus if Dak signs long term, he's going to be in the $35m/yr range. And you can't hide Zeke and coops cap hit forever. It's going to be a lot of money on the cap for 3 players. More power to them. 

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