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WR Amari Cooper, DAL


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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

Sure, if you consider a WR who was top-12 weekly WR 39 times during his time in Cincy a WR3/flex, I guess.

BTW, there were only 5 WRs who had more top-12 weekly WR finishes in that span.  

So, the WR who was 6th most likely to be a WR 1 is a flex in your opinion?

a WR who gets 10 fantasy points or more 39 percent of the time is not someone I want to trot out at wr2 or wr1

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

a WR who gets 10 fantasy points or more 39 percent of the time is not someone I want to trot out at wr2 or wr1

Then maybe you have unrealistic expectations.  During his time in Cincy, He was the 6th most likely WR to finish each week as a WR1.  Sure, you could have aimed to have 2 of the top 5 as your WR1 & WR2, but you’d have had to sacrifice at other positions.  And that includes his rookie year, and his last year to two there.  If you just used his prime years, the numbers would likely look even better.

Edited by Bayhawks
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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

Then maybe you have unrealistic expectations.  During his time in Cincy, He was the 6th most likely WR to finish each week as a WR1.  Sure, you could have aimed to have 2 of the top 5 as your WR1 & WR2, but you’d have had to sacrifice at other positions.  And that includes his rookie year, and his last year to two there.  If you just used his prime years, the numbers would likely look even better.

DeSean Jackson has a career average of 42% of his games 10 fantasy points or more in standard scoring.

In 2018 he has done so 40% of the time

 

Would you feel comfortable with Jackson as your WR1 or WR2?

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Just now, Dr. Dan said:

DeSean Jackson has a career average of 42% of his games 10 fantasy points or more in standard scoring.

In 2018 he has done so 40% of the time

 

Would you feel comfortable with Jackson as your WR1 or WR2?

Depends.....is he’s the 6th most likely to finish as a WR1?

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Made a post after the first game that Cooper played saying that since he has joined the Cowboys, he has been as good and even performed better than Antonio Brown.
In the article above the ironically made the same comparison.

Since Amari Cooper was traded to the Cowboys (Weeks 9 through 12):
Amari Cooper: 22 receptions, 349 yards, 3 touchdowns
Antonio Brown: 25 receptions, 322 yards, 3 touchdowns

Careful of mocking people for their opinions, it can be the one mocking who deserves to be mocked for not having the ability to see what us people you are being mocked are able to see.

This is what I was told by Dr. Dan..."This is an absurd way to look at Cooper and completely incorrect. I clear example of "I bought him, was pretty disappointed this season, but now I'm going to talk myself into thinking I've got a league winner on my hands. Cooper is not better than Antonio Brown. Cooper is at best a WR2 rest of the season. The volume opportunity is intriguing, and I'd be more excited about him on Dallas than the Raiders if I owned him. But at the end of the day he is a WR2."
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21496235

I was called a day drinker by Coyote5 with an LMFAO emoticon... "Day drinking on a Tuesday?"
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21495954

So if you get a player who is performing like Brown but much younger for just a 1st rounder? That would appear to make the people mocking the trade by the Cowboys the ones who were wrong again. I have learned the majority and popular opinion is often wrong. I wish we had down votes here, that way you can go back and down vote the people who clearly got their opinion wrong so you can know in the future who knows stuff and who dont.

Edited by tackle for loss
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1 hour ago, tackle for loss said:

Made a post after the first game that Cooper played saying that since he has joined the Cowboys, he has been as good and even performed better than Antonio Brown.
In the article above the ironically made the same comparison.

Since Amari Cooper was traded to the Cowboys (Weeks 9 through 12):
Amari Cooper: 22 receptions, 349 yards, 3 touchdowns
Antonio Brown: 25 receptions, 322 yards, 3 touchdowns

Careful of mocking people for their opinions, it can be the one mocking who deserves to be mocked for not having the ability to see what us people you are being mocked are able to see.

This is what I was told by Dr. Dan..."This is an absurd way to look at Cooper and completely incorrect. I clear example of "I bought him, was pretty disappointed this season, but now I'm going to talk myself into thinking I've got a league winner on my hands. Cooper is not better than Antonio Brown. Cooper is at best a WR2 rest of the season. The volume opportunity is intriguing, and I'd be more excited about him on Dallas than the Raiders if I owned him. But at the end of the day he is a WR2."
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21496235

I was called a day drinker by Coyote5 with an LMFAO emoticon... "Day drinking on a Tuesday?"
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21495954

So if you get a player who is performing like Brown but much younger for just a 1st rounder? That would appear to make the people mocking the trade by the Cowboys the ones who were wrong again. I have learned the majority and popular opinion is often wrong. I wish we had down votes here, that way you can go back and down vote the people who clearly got their opinion wrong so you can know in the future who knows stuff and who dont.

I don't understand what you are getting at.  You say that you made a post after the first  game Cooper played (I'm assuming you mean played with the Cowboys) that he has been as good as Brown?  Even if the stats turned out to be similar, making that post after Cooper played 1 game as a Cowboy (where he had 58 yards and a TD) deserved to be disputed.  1 decent game doesn't put a guy on the same level as a mult-year All-Pro.

Also, taking a tiny sample size to compare players is almost always a bad idea.  If you had decided to post this 1 week ago, you'd have had to admit that you were wrong, because Brown had put up almost 100 more yards & 2 more TDs during the time Cooper had been in Dallas.  When you use small sample sizes, an outlier can drastically change the data.

Furthermore, (this is a similar discussion to one that has been had in the Conner/Bell threads), but AB is an multi-time All-Pro WR who happens to be having a down year (with regards to catches and yardage).  Cooper is a talented WR in a new situation, who is doing well.  Just because small sample sizes show them with similar numbers doesn't mean Cooper=Brown.

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3 hours ago, tackle for loss said:

Made a post after the first game that Cooper played saying that since he has joined the Cowboys, he has been as good and even performed better than Antonio Brown.
In the article above the ironically made the same comparison.

Since Amari Cooper was traded to the Cowboys (Weeks 9 through 12):
Amari Cooper: 22 receptions, 349 yards, 3 touchdowns
Antonio Brown: 25 receptions, 322 yards, 3 touchdowns

Careful of mocking people for their opinions, it can be the one mocking who deserves to be mocked for not having the ability to see what us people you are being mocked are able to see.

This is what I was told by Dr. Dan..."This is an absurd way to look at Cooper and completely incorrect. I clear example of "I bought him, was pretty disappointed this season, but now I'm going to talk myself into thinking I've got a league winner on my hands. Cooper is not better than Antonio Brown. Cooper is at best a WR2 rest of the season. The volume opportunity is intriguing, and I'd be more excited about him on Dallas than the Raiders if I owned him. But at the end of the day he is a WR2."
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21496235

I was called a day drinker by Coyote5 with an LMFAO emoticon... "Day drinking on a Tuesday?"
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21495954

So if you get a player who is performing like Brown but much younger for just a 1st rounder? That would appear to make the people mocking the trade by the Cowboys the ones who were wrong again. I have learned the majority and popular opinion is often wrong. I wish we had down votes here, that way you can go back and down vote the people who clearly got their opinion wrong so you can know in the future who knows stuff and who dont.

I would predict this post doesn't age well.

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3 hours ago, tackle for loss said:

Since Amari Cooper was traded to the Cowboys (Weeks 9 through 12):
Amari Cooper: 22 receptions, 349 yards, 3 touchdowns
Antonio Brown: 25 receptions, 322 yards, 3 touchdowns

Come on.  This a 4 game comparison.  You can't compare Cooper to AB after just 4 games, especially since Cooper has a 90 yd TD in his numbers, which is not going to be duplicated.   

Wait until next season, and we can see where Cooper compares to Brown and other WR1s.

Edited by fightingillini
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On 11/24/2018 at 11:01 PM, Sarlakticacid said:

And blow up the week after that 

This guy Coopers.

I am fully expecting a let-down game -- hard for anyone to truly expect similar production from Cooper this week compared to last, as there will always be regression to the mean. And Cooper has always been boom/bust, alternating over average games with under average games FP wise, often without clear reason. Even since coming to Dallas.

That said, kinda hard to sit him when targets will be there in a game where DAL will definitely need to be throwing to keep up with the Saints. Just praying for an average game, instead of a complete let-down.

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16 minutes ago, matuski said:

Should be an interesting test for my opinions on Dak this week.  NO top run defense and bottom pass defense.

If the Saints are effective against the run, or if the Cowboys fall behind, can Dak shoulder the offense?  

Saints will stack the box-no doubt.  Should be interesting.

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35 minutes ago, fightingillini said:

Come on.  This a 4 game comparison.  You can't compare Cooper to AB after just 4 games, especially since Cooper has a 90 yd TD in his numbers, which is not going to be duplicated.   

Wait until next season, and we can see where Cooper compares to Brown and other WR1s.

Problem (now and going forward) with AB is not the fault of AB... it's Juju. His rise to power in the WR ranks has had a negative impact on Brown's "fantasy" production. Good for the Steelers, good for "real" football, but not so for AB's crazy 4-5  year run as undisputed #1 "fantasy" WR.

Comparison is fair, but only because AB84's future is looking more like simply the best versus simply amazing.

#1 WR on Dallas is a position that has always produced and AC has got the talent to carry on that legacy.

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12 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

#1 WR on Dallas is a position that has always produced and AC has got the talent to carry on that legacy.

Under Romo, but what does that have to do with the Cowboys today? Dak doesn’t have the arm talent to suport high-end WR1 numbers. If his arm talent was average even perhaps DAL would be a plus spot for Cooper, but it’s far from it.

The Cowboys have to take the game out of Dak’s hands to win football games: they have to play it safe and conservative and keep everyhing short. Not a good situation for fantasy WRs.

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1 hour ago, Concept Coop said:

Under Romo, but what does that have to do with the Cowboys today? Dak doesn’t have the arm talent to suport high-end WR1 numbers. If his arm talent was average even perhaps DAL would be a plus spot for Cooper, but it’s far from it.

The Cowboys have to take the game out of Dak’s hands to win football games: they have to play it safe and conservative and keep everyhing short. Not a good situation for fantasy WRs.

DAL receivers to start the season were one of the weakest groups I have ever seen. DCs had an easy time stacking the box against Zeke because quite honestly - what was the worst that could happen.

That entire offense has come to life since Cooper's arrival and Dak looks like a completely different QB. I have been as big a "Dak doubter" as any, but the difference in his play recently is obvious. A WR with separation skills can do wonders for QB play. And that pulls defenders out of the box, and now here comes Zeke... then the whole thing opens up... gets easier for the QB.

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8 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

DAL receivers to start the season were one of the weakest groups I have ever seen. DCs had an easy time stacking the box against Zeke because quite honestly - what was the worst that could happen.

That entire offense has come to life since Cooper's arrival and Dak looks like a completely different QB. I have been as big a "Dak doubter" as any, but the difference in his play recently is obvious. A WR with separation skills can do wonders for QB play. And that pulls defenders out of the box, and now here comes Zeke... then the whole thing opens up... gets easier for the QB.

Agreed. That's why I said don't judge Dak too harshly without a legit #1 WR. Cooper has made a huge difference beyond his stats.

Dak still needs to show he can be a weapon as a passer, but he's got more arm talent than given credit for. That said, he either helps the offense or he doesn't. If Dak can't be an asset, the Cowboys need to look at upgrading.

I'm on record as saying let's see how Dak finishes this season. He needs to do more. If Dak doesn't step up, QB becomes one of their priorities.

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1 minute ago, Football Jones said:

Agreed. That's why I said don't judge Dak too harshly without a legit #1 WR. Cooper has made a huge difference beyond his stats.

Dak still needs to show he can be a weapon as a passer, but he's got more arm talent than given credit for. That said, he either helps the offense or he doesn't. If Dak can't be an asset, the Cowboys need to look at upgrading.

I'm on record as saying let's see how Dak finishes this season. He needs to do more. If Dak doesn't step up, QB becomes one of their priorities.

We will learn a lot tonight. I'm not a fan of either team, but this is the most intriguing game in week 13 IMO.

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43 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

DAL receivers to start the season were one of the weakest groups I have ever seen. DCs had an easy time stacking the box against Zeke because quite honestly - what was the worst that could happen.

That entire offense has come to life since Cooper's arrival and Dak looks like a completely different QB. I have been as big a "Dak doubter" as any, but the difference in his play recently is obvious. A WR with separation skills can do wonders for QB play. And that pulls defenders out of the box, and now here comes Zeke... then the whole thing opens up... gets easier for the QB.

Dak is absolutely playing better, but he’s still a poor passer; the offense is still rudimentary; Dak still doesn’t throw down field; he still hasn’t connected with Cooper deep. 

Dak is what he is. His upside as an NFL QB is higher than his upside as a passer. He’s never going to be a positive for the WRs he’s throwing the ball to, fantasy wise.

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30 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Agreed. That's why I said don't judge Dak too harshly without a legit #1 WR. Cooper has made a huge difference beyond his stats.

Dak still needs to show he can be a weapon as a passer, but he's got more arm talent than given credit for. That said, he either helps the offense or he doesn't. If Dak can't be an asset, the Cowboys need to look at upgrading.

I'm on record as saying let's see how Dak finishes this season. He needs to do more. If Dak doesn't step up, QB becomes one of their priorities.

Weapons don’t make the passer—and I’m talking about him as a passer. Cooper will improve his play, and already has,  but he won’t make him a better passer.

In what way is his arm talent underrated? Arm strength is his only NFL-level attribute as a passer. He’s inaccurate, slow release, poor anticipation. Not to mention the severe issues with his mechanics.

I’m a Dak fan and, like you, want to give him the end of this year and likely next. But even if he pans out, even if he gets back to what he was in 2016, he’s not going to be a good passer. 

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This should be a good test for Dak. The game script could very well have Dak throwing 30+ times which he hasn't done once this season (26 is his highest attempts).

I expect to lose this game as a Cowboys fan, but the low pass attempts does show the upside of upgrading QB (a better passer). Imagine their offense as it is, only with a quality passer. Add another good receiver (WR or TE) which is definitely on the agenda in the offseason & their offense starts to get scary.

That's for down the road, though. For now, I have no grand illusions of doing anything notable this season. We could make the postseason, but winning more than one playoff game would be a real stretch.

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23 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

Weapons don’t make the passer—and I’m talking about him as a passer. Cooper will improve his play, and already has,  but he won’t make him a better passer.

In what way is his arm talent underrated? Arm strength is his only NFL-level attribute as a passer. He’s inaccurate, slow release, poor anticipation. Not to mention the severe issues with his mechanics.

I’m a Dak fan and, like you, want to give him the end of this year and likely next. But even if he pans out, even if he gets back to what he was in 2016, he’s not going to be a good passer. 

You misread my post. I said he needs to show he's a weapon as a passer. As in himself, not the weapons around him.

Dak has good arm strength & can make impressive throws when he's got time. I totally agree he comes up short in other areas, but he actually looked very promising as a rookie. For whatever reason, his progress as a passer has stalled & even regressed in some areas. 

I think we'll likely need to upgrade Dak, but I'm not at the point where I'm going to say he's never going to be a true asset. Dak brings some things to the table where he doesn't have to be Troy Aikman as a passer, but he does need to start showing real promise in that area (& do it pronto) if he wants to keep the job.

Edited by Football Jones
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3 hours ago, matuski said:

No Gordon = double digit targets for KA imo.

I hear you.  But tonight could be a shootout with lots of targets for Amari; I can't conceivably bench JuJu, and Golladay is getting a gazillion targets and seems to have a good matchup.  

Bottom line, I'm rolling Amari over players that I never thought I would have at the start of the season.

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21 minutes ago, Otis said:

I hear you.  But tonight could be a shootout with lots of targets for Amari; I can't conceivably bench JuJu, and Golladay is getting a gazillion targets and seems to have a good matchup.  

Bottom line, I'm rolling Amari over players that I never thought I would have at the start of the season.

Heard a stat this morning that NOS have given up 8 or 9 100+ yd games to WRs this year.

Hard to imagine a scenario that doesn't favor a good fantasy game from Cooper (win or lose).

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3 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Heard a stat this morning that NOS have given up 8 or 9 100+ yd games to WRs this year.

Hard to imagine a scenario that doesn't favor a good fantasy game from Cooper (win or lose).

And Ridley (who was shadowed by Lattimore the whole game) almost got 100 and a score on Thanksgiving, alongside Julio's 11 catch 140 or so yard performance.

Cooper has a nice floor tonight and potential to go for 150 and a score.

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1 minute ago, Concept Coop said:

@Football Jones

I think we’re having two different conversations. My point was that the Cowboys, because of Dak, are not a plus for WRs, fantasy wise. It doesn’t sound like you disagree with that.

Right now, I'd agree with that in general. As we've seen, though, Dak is good enough to make a WR viable.

Bottom line, Dak needs to be an asset to our offense. To do that, he's going to need to show improvement as a passer.

That said, we need to run him more in a variety of looks. This coaching staff isn't getting the most out of Dak, but that's not really news.

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4 hours ago, fightingillini said:

Come on.  This a 4 game comparison.  You can't compare Cooper to AB after just 4 games, especially since Cooper has a 90 yd TD in his numbers, which is not going to be duplicated.   

Wait until next season, and we can see where Cooper compares to Brown and other WR1s.

Well, AB also has a 78 yard TD in that same timeframe...

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8 hours ago, tackle for loss said:

Made a post after the first game that Cooper played saying that since he has joined the Cowboys, he has been as good and even performed better than Antonio Brown.
In the article above the ironically made the same comparison.

Since Amari Cooper was traded to the Cowboys (Weeks 9 through 12):
Amari Cooper: 22 receptions, 349 yards, 3 touchdowns
Antonio Brown: 25 receptions, 322 yards, 3 touchdowns

Careful of mocking people for their opinions, it can be the one mocking who deserves to be mocked for not having the ability to see what us people you are being mocked are able to see.

This is what I was told by Dr. Dan..."This is an absurd way to look at Cooper and completely incorrect. I clear example of "I bought him, was pretty disappointed this season, but now I'm going to talk myself into thinking I've got a league winner on my hands. Cooper is not better than Antonio Brown. Cooper is at best a WR2 rest of the season. The volume opportunity is intriguing, and I'd be more excited about him on Dallas than the Raiders if I owned him. But at the end of the day he is a WR2."
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21496235

I was called a day drinker by Coyote5 with an LMFAO emoticon... "Day drinking on a Tuesday?"
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/715809-dynasty-redraft-wr-amari-cooper-cowboys/?do=findComment&comment=21495954

So if you get a player who is performing like Brown but much younger for just a 1st rounder? That would appear to make the people mocking the trade by the Cowboys the ones who were wrong again. I have learned the majority and popular opinion is often wrong. I wish we had down votes here, that way you can go back and down vote the people who clearly got their opinion wrong so you can know in the future who knows stuff and who dont.

:lmao::lmao:  day drinking on a Thursday?

 

If we're going to assume very small sample sizes can be used to make reasonable assumptions  - as you yourself have with the 4 game sample above, then I will take your two day sample of day drinking and assume that you're a raging alcoholic...  😉

Edited by coyote5
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The best thing Cooper has going for him moving forward is that the Jones 'family' had to risk reputation and draft capital to acquire him.  So he'll be a focal point of the offense until he proves he's not worthy...which will take more than usual given the initial statement.  Think Roy Williams.

It's not to say his issues in OAK were solely usage...but for reasons I can't figure, Carr/Gruden didn't value him; Del Rio and Todd Downing before them.

It's awhile ago, but the first half of 2016...Cooper was a Top 5 WR.  The skillset is there.  He has to come thru too...his drops issues of 2017 were maddening and warranted criticism.  But I could see him having a remainder of the season that maintains his Cowboys per game pace.

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38 minutes ago, TheDirtyWord said:

The best thing Cooper has going for him moving forward is that the Jones 'family' had to risk reputation and draft capital to acquire him.  So he'll be a focal point of the offense until he proves he's not worthy...which will take more than usual given the initial statement.  Think Roy Williams.

It's not to say his issues in OAK were solely usage...but for reasons I can't figure, Carr/Gruden didn't value him; Del Rio and Todd Downing before them.

It's awhile ago, but the first half of 2016...Cooper was a Top 5 WR.  The skillset is there.  He has to come thru too...his drops issues of 2017 were maddening and warranted criticism.  But I could see him having a remainder of the season that maintains his Cowboys per game pace.

Couldn’t be more wrong. This is lazy and outdated thinking.

Jerry doesn’t meddle anymore

The Cowboys don’t make stupid decisions

The players aren’t all convicts or drug addicts.

 

 

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5 hours ago, -X- said:

Not if Lattimore shadows him the entire game.  Would be happy with half those numbers.

Does Lattimore truly shadow?

Also, to what degree does Cooper go into the slot to avoid a shadow??

It does seem that Lattimore has been shutdown since being lit up by Mike Evans in week 1.

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I reckon we’ll find out, but if Lattimore fully shadows, he’ll obviously follow Cooper everywhere regardless of alignment.  Just going by what a few FF podcasters said re: Lattimore shadowing Cooper and how much he’s improved this season since that bad first game.  Not stopping me from putting Cooper out there.

Edited by -X-
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Quote

Amari Cooper caught 8-of-8 targets for 75 yards in the Cowboys' Week 13 win over the Saints.

Cooper also lost a first half fumble where Marshon Lattimore kneed the ball out. The Cowboys are now 4-1 since Cooper's acquisition, with the wideout posting at least 75 yards three times in the process. He has added the desired new element to the Cowboys' offense. He will have a juicy Week 14 matchup against the Eagles' undermanned secondary.

Nov 29 - 11:38 PM

 

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18 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Couldn’t be more wrong. This is lazy and outdated thinking.

Jerry doesn’t meddle anymore

The Cowboys don’t make stupid decisions

The players aren’t all convicts or drug addicts.

 

 

Who is the GM?  It has the name 'Jones' in it...no?

Every team is capable of making stupid decisions...Cowboys aren't immune.

4th line is loco

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On 11/24/2018 at 10:58 PM, Wooters said:

Amari Cooper is hot garbage.  He went off because he was playing against a hurt Quinton Dunbar.  Can't wait for people to start this loser next week and get 3-42.

say what?

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  • 2 weeks later...

WTH do I do with this guy?!   I can’t bring myself to play him on my dynasty team over AB or Hill, but leaving 47 points on the bench is rough. 

Does he deserve a flex spot over Chubb?  Ugh.  

I am glad to see him rocking though.  Glad no one offered when I put him on the block mid-season. 

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7 minutes ago, Andrew74 said:

WTH do I do with this guy?!   I can’t bring myself to play him on my dynasty team over AB or Hill, but leaving 47 points on the bench is rough. 

Does he deserve a flex spot over Chubb?  Ugh.  

I am glad to see him rocking though.  Glad no one offered when I put him on the block mid-season. 

2WR leagues suck. Ask your league to add a flex or 3rd WR slot.

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51 minutes ago, az_prof said:

Another great game for Cooper with Cowboys: 10 for 217 and 3 TDS.   No doubt now that the trade turned things around for him and was in fact a great trade for Dallas who at 8-5 are in playoff hunt.

Yup I was dead wrong about that trade.  Certainly looks like it has salvaged the season for the Cowboys and given them a chance to make a deep run in the playoffs

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