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Through 4 weeks, who is the league MVP? DPOY? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Phenomena
- Start date
League MVP: JJ Watt. (Runner up: Philip Rivers.)
DPOY: JJ Watt.
I agree with the OP on the rookies.
DPOY: JJ Watt.
I agree with the OP on the rookies.
cstu
Footballguy
This.
Luck may have the numbers but Rivers has his team 3-1 and has been nearly perfect. One of those few mistakes was a mishandled snap that cost them a win in week 1 and I'm not sure if that was all his fault.
Bobbyn2022
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
Agreed, Mack has no business on the list IMO. Fuller is the hands down favorite right now. Leads the league in INTs and also has 2 FF. He's just been a playmaker. Mosely has been better than Mack and should be running in the 2 position right now. On offense it has to be Benjamin right now. I think he could easily be surpassed by one of the QBs at some point, though. Likely Bridgewater if he heals fast enough. Hurns, is also in the conversation.
MVP has to be Luck IMO. Hes on pace for 5220/52 passing.
DPOY has to be Watt.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I don't get this Luck love at all. He's got amazing stats, but how has he compiled them? He had two decent games against the only two good teams he's played (two INTs vs. Denver, only 172 yards against Philly, under 7 YPA against both), and his team lost both. And then he absolutely firebombed Tennessee and Jacksonville. If he played 12 games against Jacksonville and Tennessee, I'd say let's hand him the MVP trophy now. As it stands, I'd rather hold off until he does something significant against someone of note. Especially given how insanely Philip Rivers has been playing.jurb26 said:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
jurb26 said:
He's not even the top QB right now when it comes to MVP right now; that would be Rivers.
Having said that, gimme J.J. Watt for MVP.
jurb26
Footballguy
Huh? He's had at least 3 TDs in every game so far, 4 in 3 of his games. He's had 370 yds or more in 3 of 4 games.
jurb26
Footballguy
Rivers is in the cover station as well. I'd give it to Luck though.jurb26 said:
He's not even the top QB right now when it comes to MVP right now; that would be Rivers.
Having said that, gimme J.J. Watt for MVP.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Luck is also on a 2-2 team that wouldn't be in the playoffs right now. Players on non-playoff teams almost never win the MVP.
jurb26
Footballguy
Playoffs matter but 2-2 isn't much different than 3-1.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Right, but like Adam pointed out, Luck's two monster games came against two of the patsies of the league. Rivers doing what he did against Seattle is far more impressive than anything Luck has done this year.
jurb26
Footballguy
As I pointed out, Luck has had 3 monster games not 2. Even him "down" game was a 3 TD performance.
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Not that I think he has a chance at League MVP but I would at least like to mention DeMarco Murray. Dallas has leaned on him and he has delivered huge. If he can stay healthy, he could approach 2000 combined yards and 12-15 TD's...........
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
I think I go with Luck because without him the Colts are a 2-14 roster. San Diego has better overall talent. But Rivers is definitely playing out of his mind. His efficiency is like Foles last year... and that's not sustainable. Luck isn't even being super efficient and is winning games and amassing monster stats. It's like Rodgers in 2011 when the Packers had no running game ... if Luck continues to be put in that type of position to carry the team, he's going to have 5k/40 and easily win league MVP.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Do you think anything Luck has done is impressive as what Rivers did against Seattle?
Are we ignoring the fact that the Colts' 2nd loss of the season happened when Luck threw a pick in the red zone when his team had a 7-point lead with five minutes, in a game they eventually lost by 3?
There's no RB I would ever vote MVP. Both CJ and AP's monster 2,000 yard seasons came on teams that either didn't make the playoffs or got trounced in the first round. This isn't 1970... RBs are not the "Most Valuable Player" on the team. RBs aren't even in the top 5 of most important positions on the team. QB/Pass rusher/pass protector/shutdown corner are the elite positions and those deserve to get the MVP awards.
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Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Thing is, considering that the Cowboy QB is Tony Romo, I think that is an even stronger statement for DeMarco as MVP........
jurb26
Footballguy
So you are basing this on 1 game for each guy? Indy was never in that game without Luck. Rivers game vs. Sea was the most impressive this season IMO. The MVP is more than 1 game, though.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Murray deserves mention no doubt.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Right, and Rivers has been great all season.
Luck actually struggled for most of that Philly game. They ran the ball surprisingly well, which is why they were winning for most of it. 172 passing yards on 34 attempts is pretty poor, looking at just that one game.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Without looking at the replies yet...
MVP: Nobody is having a lights out year yet, so most valuable player on a division winner. Contenders: Rivers, Watt, Calvin, Murray, Gio.. Going with Rivers then Calvin. Just don't see a RB winning it without eclipsing 2k.
DMVP: Watt. Honorable mentions: DeAndre Levy, Leodis McKelvin, Justin Houston.
OROY: Kelvin Benjamin. [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Honorable mentions: Hurns, Watkins, Carr.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]DROY: Kyle Fuller. [/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px]Honorable mentions: [/SIZE] Mosley, Preston Brown.
MVP: Nobody is having a lights out year yet, so most valuable player on a division winner. Contenders: Rivers, Watt, Calvin, Murray, Gio.. Going with Rivers then Calvin. Just don't see a RB winning it without eclipsing 2k.
DMVP: Watt. Honorable mentions: DeAndre Levy, Leodis McKelvin, Justin Houston.
OROY: Kelvin Benjamin. [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Honorable mentions: Hurns, Watkins, Carr.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]DROY: Kyle Fuller. [/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px]Honorable mentions: [/SIZE] Mosley, Preston Brown.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
Great vs. The run as in avoiding contact and being washed out of plays?
AuttieFootball
Footballguy
Right now I think Rivers is the front runner for MVP, but there are other candidates. He seems to be doing the most with less. Can you imagine that San Diego team without him? He's the entire offense. They have zero running game and average skill talent.
JJ Watt is running away with DPOY. He's a legit MVP candidate.
Rookies are probably Benjamin and Fuller.
JJ Watt is running away with DPOY. He's a legit MVP candidate.
Rookies are probably Benjamin and Fuller.
AuttieFootball
Footballguy
the two games I've watched JJ Watt in he's been utterly dominant (Washington, Buffalo). But I missed his games vs Oak and NYG. He didn't stat at all vs Oak which I found amazing and the Texans got ran over vs the Giants. I think he can be in the DPOY, but MVP too? For a defensive player to get it he'd need to be having an all world type year and have the team success to match. I'm not sure Watt is having that.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
He had 2 turnovers against Denver, and fewer than 7 yards per attempt. It was a solid game, especially since Denver looks much improved on defense this year, but not a great one. And his game against Philadelphia was no-two-ways-about-it a bad game. 20/34 passing for just 174 yards? That's 5 yards per attempt. Against a BAD defense.
I haven't seen all the week 4 stats updated yet, but he handily trails several other quarterbacks in a whole host of statistics, from ANYA to DVOA to DYAR to QBR to PFF Grade (though he does lead in EPA and EPA/P). And again, his raw statistics aren't accounting for the quality of competition he's beating up on.
I would put him solidly behind both Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers in my own personal MVP race, and would put him on a comparable level to Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan. Those five have been head and shoulders above the rest of the league, though.
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Watt had the first score of the Oakland game with an offensive TD catch though. Not sure why no defensive stats, they might have pulled him early since it was a total blowout.
I expect he'll fade from the conversation though as the Hou offense is terrible, their record will probably worsen as they play tougher competition. However maybe once Clowney gets back on the field that will free up Watt from the constant double and triple teams.
jurb26
Footballguy
Strange you omitted TDs in both games.
ZWK
Footballguy
Luck is first in DYAR and EPA, and has had positive DYAR & EPA each week. He's also ahead of Rodgers in DVOA and ANY/A, though behind him in QBR, WPA, and PFF grade (most of those comparisons are pretty close). Jacksonville's defense does look pretty bad, but I think it's too soon to write off his other opponents (e.g., Philly has basically just had one bad game, and Tennessee's D was ranked 14th in DVOA before the Indy game & 4th against the pass).
shoecrew22
Footballguy
JJ Watt MVP
JJ Watt DPOY
JJ Watt DPOY
Dismattle
Footballguy
League MVP: Murray five hundred yrds w/ five TD's We would already be hearin his teams a lock for SB if almost anywhere but Dallas (okay maybe just Carolina)
DPOY: Harrison Smith fyi: youll notice a slight difference when he doesn't play
OROY: Bridgewater 300 yds in his 2nd game (some guys rarely if ever hit 300)
DROY: Mosley Before questioning, consider how much a pass rusher would help a team who cannot stop the Run
DPOY: Harrison Smith fyi: youll notice a slight difference when he doesn't play
OROY: Bridgewater 300 yds in his 2nd game (some guys rarely if ever hit 300)
DROY: Mosley Before questioning, consider how much a pass rusher would help a team who cannot stop the Run
flysack
Footballguy
Don't be surprised is Sammy Watkins steals it with the switch to Orton at QB. The guy has been WIDE OPEN (no one in 10 yards) over and over and Manuel would never see him. Orton is no world beater, but Watkins doesn't need Andrew Luck to get him 100 catches - Orton will do. It's ridiculous how much EJ hurt his production.jurb26 said:
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Just Win Baby
Footballguy
Rivers is MVP so far.
He is dominating as a passer (leading league in passer rating, 9:1 TD:int ratio, etc.). His team is 3-1, with the marquee win of the season to date over Seattle, and its only loss by 1 point on the road to a team that won 10 games last season.
Now consider:
1. The OL is once again one of the worst in the NFL. PFF ranks the Chargers as #27 in pass blocking and #28 in run blocking. Starting C Hardwick played just 16 snaps and is out for the season. The second string C also got hurt, and the third string C had to play 66 snaps vs. JAX.
2. The Chargers have the worst running game in the NFL so far, and it's not close. Mathews will miss 4+ games and Woodhead essentially 14 (he played 1 snap in week 3). Meanwhile, PFF ranks Donald Brown #52 out of 53 RBs who have played 25%+ of their teams' snaps.
That said, there is a long way to go. The Chargers will have to continue winning for Rivers to have a chance.
IMO Watt and Murray (and every other non-QB) have zero chance at MVP.
He is dominating as a passer (leading league in passer rating, 9:1 TD:int ratio, etc.). His team is 3-1, with the marquee win of the season to date over Seattle, and its only loss by 1 point on the road to a team that won 10 games last season.
Now consider:
1. The OL is once again one of the worst in the NFL. PFF ranks the Chargers as #27 in pass blocking and #28 in run blocking. Starting C Hardwick played just 16 snaps and is out for the season. The second string C also got hurt, and the third string C had to play 66 snaps vs. JAX.
2. The Chargers have the worst running game in the NFL so far, and it's not close. Mathews will miss 4+ games and Woodhead essentially 14 (he played 1 snap in week 3). Meanwhile, PFF ranks Donald Brown #52 out of 53 RBs who have played 25%+ of their teams' snaps.
That said, there is a long way to go. The Chargers will have to continue winning for Rivers to have a chance.
IMO Watt and Murray (and every other non-QB) have zero chance at MVP.
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T with T
Footballguy
I know on pace to Break Dickersons record with 2135 rushing and 2400 from scrimmage and 20 tds. Not to mention about 50 catches I can see him breaking Records guy looks like he got some steroids from AP.
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