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TE Devin Funchess, Lions (1 Viewer)

Since the KB trade he's 10/178/2 in two games on 13 targets.
17/286/2 on 25 targets or ~19ppg with finishes of WR23, WR3 and ~WR12 depending on where the WRs finish in tomorrow's game.

His 108 yards vs. NYJ was a season high.

If Lattimore doesn't play next week that match-up all of a sudden looks good. MIN in week 14 will be tough but he then gets GB and TB in weeks 15 and 16. 

 
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17/286/2 on 25 targets or ~19ppg with finishes of WR23, WR3 and ~WR12 depending on where the WRs finish in tomorrow's game.

His 108 yards vs. NYJ was a season high.

If Lattimore doesn't play next week that match-up all of a sudden looks good. MIN in week 14 will be tough but he then gets GB and TB in weeks 15 and 16. 
It's hard to sit him against anyone because Cam is going to pepper him with targets. Lattimore probsbly comes back this week, but I'm still starting him 

 
Devin Funchess jammed his toe in Sunday's win over the Jets, but says he will play through the issue going forward.

Funchess wasn't announced with an injury in New York, but hinted he could miss some practice time this week. Having now set new 2017 yardage highs in each of Kelvin Benjamin's first three games away from the Panthers, Funchess could flirt with WR1 status against the Saints if Marshon Lattimore and Ken Crawley both remain sidelined.

Source: Jourdan Rodrigue on Twitter 

Nov 27 - 2:59 PM

 
Literally the only Panthers WR that can catch a pass. Weird game v. NYJ, Cam's favorite target was the turf.

:unsure:

Wait, what am I saying, that's not weird for Newton.

 
Wed, Nov 29

Devin Funchess (toe) is not practicing Wednesday.

Advice: Funchess injured his toe in the Week 12 win over the Jets but said afterward that he'll play through the injury moving forward. The 8-3 Panthers hold the NFC's top Wild Card spot at the moment and need Funchess on offense.

More: Joe Person on Twitter

(Rotoworld.com)

 
Literally the only Panthers WR that can catch a pass. Weird game v. NYJ, Cam's favorite target was the turf.

:unsure:

Wait, what am I saying, that's not weird for Newton.
Cam always has some bad throws, but he had more than usual against the Jets, because he was/is playing with an injured thumb on his throwing hand. 

 
Toe injuries a very bad for WRs.

Some things to keep in mind..

It's the same toe he broke in college.

He said he injured it early in the game vs. NYJ and played through it. 
I got bone-on-bone in the same tie & walk 6 miles of concrete every day. Rub some dirt on it.

My options are JuJu, Parker - “you’re still on my roster?” - and Woods (IR - will dump DP when he’s a go.)

I also have Gordon.  :rolleyes:  Which reminds me, I have to cut a 2nd player to take Smith-Schuster off IR. So, really, my only option is Miami’s sure thing breakout player of 2017.

 
I got bone-on-bone in the same tie & walk 6 miles of concrete every day. Rub some dirt on it.

My options are JuJu, Parker - “you’re still on my roster?” - and Woods (IR - will dump DP when he’s a go.)

I also have Gordon.  :rolleyes:  Which reminds me, I have to cut a 2nd player to take Smith-Schuster off IR. So, really, my only option is Miami’s sure thing breakout player of 2017.
Funchess is a must start if Lattimore is out. I heard a beat reporter say they think he will be fine 

 
BobbyLayne said:
PFF has him graded at CB17
I remember rewatching the NE vs. NO game to see how NO was able to shut down Cooks. I was expecting to see Lattimore shadow Cooks but he actually often found himself in Crawley's coverage and Cooks couldn't gain an inch of seperation. I remember thinking "Crawley? Who the #### is Crawley?".

 
Welp better luck next year.
Those tricky NFL coaches..Always overthinking things. Ziggning when they should be zagging. "Well, this seems to work well. I know! What if we do the exact opposite and act as if he's not even on the team this week? Yeah, that will fool the saints and keep them from dialing in on the run game."

I would say this is perplexing but it's not. see it all the time.  Just when a team finds something that works, they abandon it.  The QB class of 2004 seem to be the only ones that get it:  They have a stud WR and they actually use him. Everyone else; smoke and mirrors.

 
FGITLOTR said:
If you own him, are you starting or sitting against Rhodes? If you are sitting him, who are you starting over him? For me, I'm debating between Hogan, Funchess, and Derrick Henry in my flex spot.  
I'm on bye but I would start him this week over Cooper, Wallace, Kearse and Lockette (.5 ppr return yardage league). 

It's not who you play but how you're playing, and Funch is playing like a Top 20 NFL WR. I trust him to produce. 

 
FGITLOTR said:
If you own him, are you starting or sitting against Rhodes? If you are sitting him, who are you starting over him? For me, I'm debating between Hogan, Funchess, and Derrick Henry in my flex spot.  
You should be starting him. Rhodes doesn't really travel much as a shadow - we tend to overstate how often that's a factor, NFL pass defenses are always more complex than best WR covered one on one by best CB - and Marvin Jones Jr / Golladay had a big day against him on Thanksgiving. Sure, Julio was a non-factor, but Xavier - who I think is terrific, especially v. the run - is only CB39 this year per PFF.

ETA: breakdown of the Vikings scheme versus Jones

I've never been a huge fan of Funchess having watched him a ton in college and not really seeing much improvement as a pro. I had him rostered before the trade & posts in this thread convinced me to just go with him as a volume play. He's slow and got murder holes where his hands should be, but no way you should bet into a winning streak. Let it ride.

 
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You should be starting him. Rhodes doesn't really travel much as a shadow - we tend to overstate how often that's a factor, NFL pass defenses are always more complex than best WR covered one on one by best SB - and Marvin Jones Jr / Golladay had a big day against him on Thanksgiving. Sure, Julio was a non-factor, but Xavier - who I think is terrific, especially v. the run - is only CB39 this year per PFF.

I've never been a huge fan of Funchess having watched him a ton in college and not really seeing much improvement as a pro. I had him rostered before the trade & posts in this thread convinced me to just go with him as a volume play. He's slow and got murder holes where his hands should be, but no way you should bet into a winning streak. Let it ride.
How often does Rhodes draw penalties? After seeing how much penalties negatively impact aggressive CBs on PFF I've kind of been putting less stock into their grades. 

I'm also honestly not sure Funchess is slow. He's not quick but once he gets rolling and gains momentum he's like a freight train and at least from the eye test, I think his 4.6 40 time is kind of deceiving. I agree with you his hands are average at best though.

But yeah, since the KB trade Funchess has finished as the WR24, WR3, WR14 and WR16 in PPR. The MIN match-up isn't great but he'll close out the playoffs at home vs. GB and TB. There is no WR with better week 15-16 match-ups. 

 
How often does Rhodes draw penalties? After seeing how much penalties negatively impact aggressive CBs on PFF I've kind of been putting less stock into their grades. 

I'm also honestly not sure Funchess is slow. He's not quick but once he gets rolling and gains momentum he's like a freight train and at least from the eye test, I think his 4.6 40 time is kind of deceiving. I agree with you his hands are average at best though.

But yeah, since the KB trade Funchess has finished as the WR24, WR3, WR14 and WR16 in PPR. The MIN match-up isn't great but he'll close out the playoffs at home vs. GB and TB. There is no WR with better week 15-16 match-ups. 
Good Q, I don't know the weighted factors that go into their grade. I def take them with a grain of salt. Like them a lot of lineman, seems questionable at skill positions IMO. But overall I seem to agree mostly with their DB grades.

But I think you are making an excellent point. Patrick Peterson is CB29, which is  :lol:

 
Good Q, I don't know the weighted factors that go into their grade. I def take them with a grain of salt. Like them a lot of lineman, seems questionable at skill positions IMO. But overall I seem to agree mostly with their DB grades.

But I think you are making an excellent point. Patrick Peterson is CB29, which is :lol:
Check out this video, it actually talks about Rhodes' grade on PFF specifically.

The fact that he didn't know who Quandre Diggs was has me questioning his general knowledge but his overall point still makes sense (although he doesn't say just how heavily penalties are weighed). Still, Rhodes held Antonio Brown to a 5/62/0 line on 11 targets in week 2 but that performance wasn't reflected in his grade. You need to be a god to hold Brown to that line.

 
Check out this video, it actually talks about Rhodes' grade on PFF specifically.

The fact that he didn't know who Quandre Diggs was has me questioning his general knowledge but his overall point still makes sense (although he doesn't say just how heavily penalties are weighed). Still, Rhodes held Antonio Brown to a 5/62/0 line on 11 targets in week 2 but that performance wasn't reflected in his grade. You need to be a god to hold Brown to that line.
I was listening to John Hanson this morning on the Sirius fantasy channel and he thinks Rhodes is the best corner in the game today. Even if he's not the best, he's in the top 5. Funchess is a big physical target, and I'll hope Cam looks his way on some redzone targets. I made the mistake of benching Marvin Jones against him on Thanksgiving, and although he and Marvin have very different skillsets, I have to think he still gets a good share of targets. Who else is Cam going to look to? Olsen is lucky to make it through the game and McCaffrey will get check downs, but Funchess is his guy.  

 
I was listening to John Hanson this morning on the Sirius fantasy channel and he thinks Rhodes is the best corner in the game today. Even if he's not the best, he's in the top 5. Funchess is a big physical target, and I'll hope Cam looks his way on some redzone targets. I made the mistake of benching Marvin Jones against him on Thanksgiving, and although he and Marvin have very different skillsets, I have to think he still gets a good share of targets. Who else is Cam going to look to? Olsen is lucky to make it through the game and McCaffrey will get check downs, but Funchess is his guy.
Yeah, they have no one. Shepard, Klay, Bersin, Dickson are just guys. Olsen is working with one foot. Byrd is kind of interesting to me but his primarily job is to stretch the field.

Funchess is most likely to lead CAR in targets on any given week and he and Cam are talented enough to where he's generally hard to sit in most leagues. 

 
Check out this video, it actually talks about Rhodes' grade on PFF specifically.

The fact that he didn't know who Quandre Diggs was has me questioning his general knowledge but his overall point still makes sense (although he doesn't say just how heavily penalties are weighed). Still, Rhodes held Antonio Brown to a 5/62/0 line on 11 targets in week 2 but that performance wasn't reflected in his grade. You need to be a god to hold Brown to that line.
The whole time I was watching it I kept thinking "bruh, I know you weren't born with that watermelon head. Heart disease, liver cancer....get off the roids now."  :lol:

It's still not a comprehensive explaination of the methodology. But my anecdotal opinion (based on where they tend to rank guys) is they're looking a lot at PD on actual targets. That favors a small quick guy like Diggs who sticks with slot WRs like flypaper. Slay has some obvious holes in his game - he's not as adverse to defending the run as Dion but let's just say taking on pulling guards is not his favorite activity - but he gets a high grade. Big, physical corners who don't see a lot of targets and actually engage when a rushing play comes their way are ranked lower than they should be, IMO. But I wish I could find out more about the actual weighted factors that make it up.

 
You should be starting him. Rhodes doesn't really travel much as a shadow - we tend to overstate how often that's a factor, NFL pass defenses are always more complex than best WR covered one on one by best CB - and Marvin Jones Jr / Golladay had a big day against him on Thanksgiving. Sure, Julio was a non-factor, but Xavier - who I think is terrific, especially v. the run - is only CB39 this year per PFF.

ETA: breakdown of the Vikings scheme versus Jones

I've never been a huge fan of Funchess having watched him a ton in college and not really seeing much improvement as a pro. I had him rostered before the trade & posts in this thread convinced me to just go with him as a volume play. He's slow and got murder holes where his hands should be, but no way you should bet into a winning streak. Let it ride.
The linked article is good and some definite truth to Rhodes having help against Jones. It would be pretty stupid to not have the safeties and LB do their jobs and help cover wouldn't it?

So while I agree, this isn't really any different than how a defense plays coverage in every game. Yes Rhodes gets help over the top from the safeties, that is their job unless they are blitzing to cover the deep portion of the field, and similarly the LB, if they are not blitzing, they usually have a zone assignment or else they are in man coverage with a RB or TE. That is their job.

Zimmer does do some good things with pattern matching and disguising coverage that makes the QB reads difficult pre snap, which forces the QB to hold the ball longer reading the coverage post snap, and the pass rush usually does not let post snap reads end very well.

You are right that Marvin Jones had a good day against Rhodes, but that is also an outlier. Most of the time the player that Rhodes covers primarily does not do well. The Lions do seem to play the Vikings better than a lot of other teams do. I am not sure why that is, but that is the way its been recently.

Marvin Jones biggest play was a free play as Terrence Newman did not get off the field and so Stafford knew he could take the risk with the deep throw to Jones with no ill consequence possible if it misfired. IIRC Newman kind of got in Rhodes way also and neither of them were able to make a play on it. Without that play Jones still has a good game, 8 targets 5 receptions 66 yards and a TD (6 yards red zone).

I think Jones is faster than Funchess and Stafford more accurate than Newton is also, besides the Lions just seeming to play better against the Vikings than most teams.

I think Funchess is exactly the style of WR than Rhodes excels against. A big WR who isn't exceptionally quick out of his breaks, its that quickness that gets some separation against Rhodes, not physical play. Rhodes is very good against WR who try to win contested catches and by out muscling the defender covering them.

As far as the PFF grades, SSND makes some good points about their grading system being questionable. In regards to the question about penalties I found this which says that Rhodes has 5 total penalties this season. One for taunting, 2 pass interference, 1 defensive holding, 1 illegal use of the hands. That isn't a lot of penalties, and likely fewer than Rhodes has in previous seasons. I know at least one of those penalties on Rhodes came against Jones, showing again that this wasn't a good game for Rhodes, but I don't think what Jones did in that game against Rhodes should negate how effective a corner he has been in basically every other game this season. That is the exception, not the rule.

I don't think Funchess is going to have a good game this Sunday and if people have other good options they should take Rhodes and the Vikings defense seriously. As I mentioned, I think Rhodes matches up very favorably against Funchess, it is the quicker receivers that give him more problems. He will have help in this game, like every other game too.

The Vikings defense is going to be focused on keeping Newton from running and scrambling out of the pocket, which likely does mean more man to man than they used against the Falcons though.

Good luck to everyone with your decisions.

 
The linked article is good and some definite truth to Rhodes having help against Jones. It would be pretty stupid to not have the safeties and LB do their jobs and help cover wouldn't it?

So while I agree, this isn't really any different than how a defense plays coverage in every game. Yes Rhodes gets help over the top from the safeties, that is their job unless they are blitzing to cover the deep portion of the field, and similarly the LB, if they are not blitzing, they usually have a zone assignment or else they are in man coverage with a RB or TE. That is their job.

Zimmer does do some good things with pattern matching and disguising coverage that makes the QB reads difficult pre snap, which forces the QB to hold the ball longer reading the coverage post snap, and the pass rush usually does not let post snap reads end very well.

You are right that Marvin Jones had a good day against Rhodes, but that is also an outlier. Most of the time the player that Rhodes covers primarily does not do well. The Lions do seem to play the Vikings better than a lot of other teams do. I am not sure why that is, but that is the way its been recently.

Marvin Jones biggest play was a free play as Terrence Newman did not get off the field and so Stafford knew he could take the risk with the deep throw to Jones with no ill consequence possible if it misfired. IIRC Newman kind of got in Rhodes way also and neither of them were able to make a play on it. Without that play Jones still has a good game, 8 targets 5 receptions 66 yards and a TD (6 yards red zone).

I think Jones is faster than Funchess and Stafford more accurate than Newton is also, besides the Lions just seeming to play better against the Vikings than most teams.

I think Funchess is exactly the style of WR than Rhodes excels against. A big WR who isn't exceptionally quick out of his breaks, its that quickness that gets some separation against Rhodes, not physical play. Rhodes is very good against WR who try to win contested catches and by out muscling the defender covering them.

As far as the PFF grades, SSND makes some good points about their grading system being questionable. In regards to the question about penalties I found this which says that Rhodes has 5 total penalties this season. One for taunting, 2 pass interference, 1 defensive holding, 1 illegal use of the hands. That isn't a lot of penalties, and likely fewer than Rhodes has in previous seasons. I know at least one of those penalties on Rhodes came against Jones, showing again that this wasn't a good game for Rhodes, but I don't think what Jones did in that game against Rhodes should negate how effective a corner he has been in basically every other game this season. That is the exception, not the rule.

I don't think Funchess is going to have a good game this Sunday and if people have other good options they should take Rhodes and the Vikings defense seriously. As I mentioned, I think Rhodes matches up very favorably against Funchess, it is the quicker receivers that give him more problems. He will have help in this game, like every other game too.

The Vikings defense is going to be focused on keeping Newton from running and scrambling out of the pocket, which likely does mean more man to man than they used against the Falcons though.

Good luck to everyone with your decisions.
This is a great post. I wish I had great options, but may need to roll this guy out and pray he does something 

 
The linked article is good and some definite truth to Rhodes having help against Jones. It would be pretty stupid to not have the safeties and LB do their jobs and help cover wouldn't it?

So while I agree, this isn't really any different than how a defense plays coverage in every game. Yes Rhodes gets help over the top from the safeties, that is their job unless they are blitzing to cover the deep portion of the field, and similarly the LB, if they are not blitzing, they usually have a zone assignment or else they are in man coverage with a RB or TE. That is their job.

Zimmer does do some good things with pattern matching and disguising coverage that makes the QB reads difficult pre snap, which forces the QB to hold the ball longer reading the coverage post snap, and the pass rush usually does not let post snap reads end very well.

You are right that Marvin Jones had a good day against Rhodes, but that is also an outlier. Most of the time the player that Rhodes covers primarily does not do well. The Lions do seem to play the Vikings better than a lot of other teams do. I am not sure why that is, but that is the way its been recently.

Marvin Jones biggest play was a free play as Terrence Newman did not get off the field and so Stafford knew he could take the risk with the deep throw to Jones with no ill consequence possible if it misfired. IIRC Newman kind of got in Rhodes way also and neither of them were able to make a play on it. Without that play Jones still has a good game, 8 targets 5 receptions 66 yards and a TD (6 yards red zone).

I think Jones is faster than Funchess and Stafford more accurate than Newton is also, besides the Lions just seeming to play better against the Vikings than most teams.

I think Funchess is exactly the style of WR than Rhodes excels against. A big WR who isn't exceptionally quick out of his breaks, its that quickness that gets some separation against Rhodes, not physical play. Rhodes is very good against WR who try to win contested catches and by out muscling the defender covering them.

As far as the PFF grades, SSND makes some good points about their grading system being questionable. In regards to the question about penalties I found this which says that Rhodes has 5 total penalties this season. One for taunting, 2 pass interference, 1 defensive holding, 1 illegal use of the hands. That isn't a lot of penalties, and likely fewer than Rhodes has in previous seasons. I know at least one of those penalties on Rhodes came against Jones, showing again that this wasn't a good game for Rhodes, but I don't think what Jones did in that game against Rhodes should negate how effective a corner he has been in basically every other game this season. That is the exception, not the rule.

I don't think Funchess is going to have a good game this Sunday and if people have other good options they should take Rhodes and the Vikings defense seriously. As I mentioned, I think Rhodes matches up very favorably against Funchess, it is the quicker receivers that give him more problems. He will have help in this game, like every other game too.

The Vikings defense is going to be focused on keeping Newton from running and scrambling out of the pocket, which likely does mean more man to man than they used against the Falcons though.

Good luck to everyone with your decisions.
1) So just to clarify, with the biggest play Jones went 7-107-2. In the game at US Bank it was 5 targets, 2-42-0. They exchanged jerseys after the game at Ford Field and from their respective social media accounts seem like friendly rivals who respect each other. Funchess is in no way a comp to MJJ so all a bit moot, he had a bad day against a guy who has top twelve production this year. Slay - who is probably better as a cover guy but doesn't come within a country mile of being as good at stopping the run - had a similar week (9-92-1, bad 45 yard TD with seconds left in the first half) against DT back in early 2015. There are very few true shutdown corners but generally the Lions don't have to give Darius much help. That said, I'd take Zimmer second if we were drafting HCs and George Edwards (who never gets much pub, it's always the HC) has had a lot more success than Teryl Austin. Our back 7 seem to constantly be out of position and poor communication, especially in the Red Zone, has plagued the Lions all year.

2) The second bolded....Rhodes is 8th in penalties amongst CBs, 20th in yards penalized. Figure there are 96 starting CBs - most slot corners play 65% of snaps - so it's not great, but around the same as other good Corners like Kilpatrick (Bengals), Sherman (Seahawks), Williams (Chargers.) Rhodes hasn't been a super elite CB this season in my view, but he's one of the best players in our division. I wasn't thrilled when Minnesota gave him the 6-year, $78M extension last summer - he's a guy you hate to face. 

Back to Funchess versus Rhodes....If I didn't have a bye this week, I would be starting Gordon as my WR3 and putting Devin in the Flex over Collins (@PIT), Mixon (concussed), Smith-Schuster (suspended), and Woods (out.) But the Panthers literally have no where else to go outside, none of their other WRs are ready for prime time. CMC is the only other productive part of the passing attack. And Cam is Cam, he's not precise and much of his effectiveness comes from running. Olsen is practicing in full and should play a lot of snaps so maybe he is more involved this week, but the Vikings are pretty good at defending TEs. Funchess is 17th in targets, 20th in yards, 10th in TDs, on pace for 120/72-937-8 - he's having a decent season, been relatively consistent. I don't think this figures to be one of his better weeks but he has had an OK floor in the six weeks since the trade. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
1) So just to clarify, with the biggest play Jones went 7-107-2. In the game at US Bank it was 5 targets, 2-42-0. They exchanged jerseys after the game at Ford Field and from their respective social media accounts seem like friendly rivals who respect each other. Funchess is in no way a comp to MJJ so all a bit moot, he had a bad day against a guy who has top twelve production this year. Slay - who is probably better as a cover guy but doesn't come within a country mile of being as good at stopping the run - had a similar week (9-92-1, bad 45 yard TD with seconds left in the first half) against DT back in early 2015. There are very few true shutdown corners but generally the Lions don't have to give Darius much help. That said, I'd take Zimmer second if we were drafting HCs and George Edwards (who never gets much pub, it's always the HC) has had a lot more success than Teryl Austin. Our back 7 seem to constantly be out of position and poor communication, especially in the Red Zone, has plagued the Lions all year.

2) The second bolded....Rhodes is 8th in penalties amongst CBs, 20th in yards penalized. Figure there are 96 starting CBs - most slot corners play 65% of snaps - so it's not great, but around the same as other good Corners like Kilpatrick (Bengals), Sherman (Seahawks), Williams (Chargers.) Rhodes hasn't been a super elite CB this season in my view, but he's one of the best players in our division. I wasn't thrilled when Minnesota gave him the 6-year, $78M extension last summer - he's a guy you hate to face. 

Back to Funchess versus Rhodes....If I didn't have a bye this week, I would be starting Gordon as my WR3 and putting Devin in the Flex over Collins (@PIT), Mixon (concussed), Smith-Schuster (suspended), and Woods (out.) But the Panthers literally have no where else to go outside, none of their other WRs are ready for prime time. CMC is the only other productive part of the passing attack. And Cam is Cam, he's not precise and much of his effectiveness comes from running. Olsen is practicing in full and should play a lot of snaps so maybe he is more involved this week, but the Vikings are pretty good at defending TEs. Funchess is 17th in targets, 20th in yards, 10th in TDs, on pace for 120/72-937-8 - he's having a decent season, been relatively consistent. I don't think this figures to be one of his better weeks but he has had an OK floor in the six weeks since the trade. 
With Anderson dealing with a hammy issue, I may have to start him. Anyone in the same predicament. At least I know Funchess has a good chance of making it through the whole game 

 
Anyone in the same predicament.
Not the same predicament, but similar juggling act.  Have A.J. in the #1 spot, will be flipping a three-headed coin between Funchess, K. Benjamin and Trent Taylor for #2, rolling with three RBs this week.  Currently have Taylor penciled in.

 
Biabreakable said:
You are right that Marvin Jones had a good day against Rhodes, but that is also an outlier. Most of the time the player that Rhodes covers primarily does not do well. The Lions do seem to play the Vikings better than a lot of other teams do. I am not sure why that is, but that is the way its been recently.

The Vikings defense is going to be focused on keeping Newton from running and scrambling out of the pocket, which likely does mean more man to man than they used against the Falcons though.
This is great assessment and I certainly agreed with this on Rhodes' uncharacteristic performance on that game, resulting Jones' outlier performance.   And yes, I agreed that Zimmer will scheme defensively to force Newton to be pocket-passer, which is something he hasn't fully developed. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
1) So just to clarify, with the biggest play Jones went 7-107-2. In the game at US Bank it was 5 targets, 2-42-0. They exchanged jerseys after the game at Ford Field and from their respective social media accounts seem like friendly rivals who respect each other. Funchess is in no way a comp to MJJ so all a bit moot, he had a bad day against a guy who has top twelve production this year. Slay - who is probably better as a cover guy but doesn't come within a country mile of being as good at stopping the run - had a similar week (9-92-1, bad 45 yard TD with seconds left in the first half) against DT back in early 2015. There are very few true shutdown corners but generally the Lions don't have to give Darius much help. That said, I'd take Zimmer second if we were drafting HCs and George Edwards (who never gets much pub, it's always the HC) has had a lot more success than Teryl Austin. Our back 7 seem to constantly be out of position and poor communication, especially in the Red Zone, has plagued the Lions all year.

2) The second bolded....Rhodes is 8th in penalties amongst CBs, 20th in yards penalized. Figure there are 96 starting CBs - most slot corners play 65% of snaps - so it's not great, but around the same as other good Corners like Kilpatrick (Bengals), Sherman (Seahawks), Williams (Chargers.) Rhodes hasn't been a super elite CB this season in my view, but he's one of the best players in our division. I wasn't thrilled when Minnesota gave him the 6-year, $78M extension last summer - he's a guy you hate to face. 

Back to Funchess versus Rhodes....If I didn't have a bye this week, I would be starting Gordon as my WR3 and putting Devin in the Flex over Collins (@PIT), Mixon (concussed), Smith-Schuster (suspended), and Woods (out.) But the Panthers literally have no where else to go outside, none of their other WRs are ready for prime time. CMC is the only other productive part of the passing attack. And Cam is Cam, he's not precise and much of his effectiveness comes from running. Olsen is practicing in full and should play a lot of snaps so maybe he is more involved this week, but the Vikings are pretty good at defending TEs. Funchess is 17th in targets, 20th in yards, 10th in TDs, on pace for 120/72-937-8 - he's having a decent season, been relatively consistent. I don't think this figures to be one of his better weeks but he has had an OK floor in the six weeks since the trade. 
Huh. What makes you think Slay is better in coverage than Rhodes?

I would take Rhodes over any other corner in the league right now. He is really good. Maybe I am over estimating him, but in my view you are under estimating him based on you thinking Slay is better in coverage than Rhodes. Don't get me wrong, I think Slay is a very good corner. I just don't think he is better than Rhodes.

I think Zimmer deserves the credit he gets for the defense. I guess George Edwards may be considered for head coaching jobs this offseason, not saying Edwards does a bad job, but I don't really think it is him that is making this defense good, its Zimmer. The defensive line coach Patterson is very good and I think likely a better coach than Edwards is. I would be more worried about losing him to a promotion than I am Edwards. If Edwards does get a head coaching job I think the fans will hate him. Never seen a guy use so many words to say nothing, even for coaches he is just all generic coach speak. I don't usually listen to his interviews because its such a waste of time. For this reason I kind of doubt he does well in interviews if he does get them. Maybe he is completely different guy with the players, but he is the most cliche coach speaking nonsense guy I have ever heard.

I think thats why Zimmer likes Edwards actually. Edwards did spill the beans about something by mistake one time, but never again as far as I know.

I think Edwards may be most involved with the linebackers. Patterson is the Dline coach and Jery Grey and Zimmer run the defensive backs. Really not much left for Edwards to do honestly. Plus he had a DUI last offseason.

Where do you see Rhodes as the 8th most penalized? That doesn't seem right to me. All of the Vikings play pretty clean and within the rules. If that is the case I am surprised, as I see a lot of defensive backs getting penalties every time I watch a game. The Lions game on Thanksgiving was their most penalized game this year, and honestly several of those penalties were made up out of thin air. It was pretty bad.

We have a different opinion about how good Rhodes is. I wouldn't use the term super elite, to me that suggests elite play that crosses multiple decades, I would say Rhodes is an elite corner though. I would take him over Patrick Peterson or whoever you want to throw out there as very good. I wouldn't say he is better than Champ Bailey or Rod Woodson in their primes though.

In regards to Funchess, don't you think it is a problem that Newton has no one else to throw to? Given how the Vikings ganged up on Julio Jones, they had to worry about Sanu and the RBs more than I think they will need to worry about the Panthers other skill players. To me that means Rhodes and help is going to make life VERY difficult for Funchess, you seem to be suggesting that Funchess will just put up numbers anyways because of volume. I can't really agree with that. I think he is going to get shut down, even if Rhoses has less help than he did with Julio. I don't really think Funchess can beat Rhodes. at all.

I do expect more man to man coverage because of the focus of linebackers on containing Cam Newton. 

Obviously McCaffrey needs to be accounted for. But I think the safeties and LB can handle him.

The Panthers offensive line does not impress me. I think the Vikings are going to create a lot of pressure and Cam Newton isn't going to have very much fun on Sunday.

 
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http://www.nflpenalties.com/position/defensive-back/cornerback?year=2017

8th in penalties called, only 14th most of we’re only looking at accepted penalties. 20th In Yatds Penalized (each column is sortable)

Slay is the top rated (lowest rating allowed) CB v. In Routes and Out Routes, Rhodes is the best CB versus the Post and Corner. PFF has breakdowns on the best cover corner versus each of about 9 base patterns inn the route tree & Darius is better than Xavier for most of them.

But you’re always entitled to your opinion, & welcome the final word here.

 
Very interesting!  The World's Most Interesting Man for sad people?  I take it you are not Andras Arato?   ;)
:lol:

I got the idea from a friend who rebuilds high end salvage cars (flood cars, totaled cars) as a hobby. He uses that as his avatar on a site we both belong to, it’s kind of an inside joke.

What he does is insane. Works 8 hours a day as a network administrator, helps the kids with their homework, does things around the house - he has an agreement with his wife he won’t start working on his cars until they go to bed (9-10pm.) He puts in hundreds of hours a year stripping parts off 3-4-5 identical model cars he had purchased at auction & ends up with $100K sports car that costs like $6K (because he sells any parts he doesn’t use - he makes money on a majority of the auction cars.) He overcomes incredible odds & challenges but nothing ever seems to fluster him.

HTPH
 

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