CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Here we go again...
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No indictment in NYPD chokehold death (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CowboysFromHell
- Start date
G
General Tso
Guest
Just saw the video. One of saddest things I've ever seen. Don't know #### about the case yet, but it makes my blood boil.
G
General Tso
Guest
Oh God I hope so. We need something we can ALL rally around.
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
What happened?
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Nearly half a million people a year die from tobacco related illnesses in the US. You want this kind of scum on the street?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
Are the cops killing innocent people again? Some things never change.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It looks very bad. Very very bad. But, as in all of these cases, not all the facts are available yet. Specifically, I would like to hear from the prosecutor and the grand jury as to why they chose not to indict. There may be compelling reasons- from what we know, I can't think of any.
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
Oh, he was a serious threat right? He was so combative against the 5 cops that tackled him, and knelt on him. He deserved to die for selling those loose cigarettes. One less black thug right???
G
General Tso
Guest
I guess he could exhale but couldn't inhale. Watch the video. It's nightmarish.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
It's a good thing you have that 178 IQ, because you do your damnedest to lose a point with each keystroke.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
With this and the Tamir kids killing, we aren't anywhere near the end of this. Things to need to be addressed. It's ridiculous the level of violence that police are able to take in non-life threatening situations from cases like this to SWAT raids of homes for minor drug possession.
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
CIGARETTES? It's not like Eric Garner was selling credit default swaps he knew were worthless.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I'll play the Devils advocate.
1. Career criminal, not complying with police commands puts you in a bad situation.
2. The police violated protocol, and I guess the law, by using a chokehold.
3. As for the rest of how they apprehended this guy, I would say, isn't that how it's done??? See #1.
4. The death could be classified as accidental, due to asthma condition, obesity causing a heart attack. The choke was no longer being applied, when he was saying he couldn't breathe.
5. We still don't know all of the facts that the grand jury heard.
I don't see how they got past #2, but let's not rush to discount the rest until all of the evidence is out.
1. Career criminal, not complying with police commands puts you in a bad situation.
2. The police violated protocol, and I guess the law, by using a chokehold.
3. As for the rest of how they apprehended this guy, I would say, isn't that how it's done??? See #1.
4. The death could be classified as accidental, due to asthma condition, obesity causing a heart attack. The choke was no longer being applied, when he was saying he couldn't breathe.
5. We still don't know all of the facts that the grand jury heard.
I don't see how they got past #2, but let's not rush to discount the rest until all of the evidence is out.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
[SIZE=14.2857141494751px]Man approached by undercover officers who notice the man selling loose cigarettes. This violates the tax code as the loose cigs are not taxed. Police attempt to arrest or cite, man refuses, cops escalate rather than defuse situation then place an unauthorized per NYPD policy choke hold on man who proceeds to have a heart attack while gasping that he can't breathe. Man dies at scene. Coroner rules death due to neck compression and compression of chest due to being wieghed down while on the side walk. Police waited seven minutes to call for emts. Death ruled a homocide. Case goes before grand jury which does not indict.[/SIZE]
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Number one is an embellishment and a smear. All previous charges were as minor as selling untaxed cigs. In fact, that was one of his previous charges.
Also note that the friend of Garner who took the posted video was arrested a week later as was Garners wife. Police appear to have been circling the wagons.
timschochet
Footballguy
And what a load of crap that is, too. Violates the tax code? I work with dozens of liquor stores and tobacco shops, and I don't know a single one who accurately reports their sales.
Native
Footballguy
Only thing I can think of is that they were trying to indict on a more severe charge (Murder 1/2?) where they couldnt prove reasonable doubt when they shouldve tried to indict on a lesser charge (involuntary manslaughter?). Mind you I dont really understand how this works. Is that possible legal heads?
Sand
Footballguy
I guess they aren't double taxed, as I'm sure he didn't buy those with a reseller's license. Ridiculous taxes drive this stuff up north.
Anyway, when I saw this months ago it didn't look good. I'm surprised that nothing came of this - IMO the police were way, way over the top for the level of "crime" this guy was committing. What would this violation otherwise get - a ticket? Sheesh.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Link?
Gawain
Footballguy
They put Capone away on tax charges. Just because all people aren't prosecuted, it doesn't make the action not a crime.
Native
Footballguy
I heard the person who filmed the killing was indicted as well, but not the cop who killed the guy.
shadyridr
Footballguy
regarding #4, coroner ruled it a homicide
Gawain
Footballguy
The "crime" is akin to selling those bootleg videos a movies that I got at the flea market. Neither deserves the death penalty.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Homicide just means it wasn't due to natural causes. No doubt obesity and his heart condition was a contributing factor, though.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I based #1 on what I'm hearing on CNN in the last hour, including from the family attorney. He made a living selling loose cigarettes. I.e. Breaking the law.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I wonder how often this happens? I mean where the coroner has ruled someone's death a homicide, but there's been no indictment for the person charged (when there's no debate/question as to whether or not they got the "right guy").
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I think this is a sad situation, but protesters are typically the dumbest of the dumb.
They tried to disrupt the tree lighting ceremony; http://nypost.com/2014/12/03/protests-against-nypd-chokehold-decision-begin/
I understand you want to get your message across, but a place like that with families and little children, how ####### stupid are you? There should be a 3 strike protester law. You get arrested 3x while protesting you're sent to Indochina.
They tried to disrupt the tree lighting ceremony; http://nypost.com/2014/12/03/protests-against-nypd-chokehold-decision-begin/
I understand you want to get your message across, but a place like that with families and little children, how ####### stupid are you? There should be a 3 strike protester law. You get arrested 3x while protesting you're sent to Indochina.
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MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
Are cops dying in the line of duty again? Some things never change.
You could always move to Jaurez if you don't like police. I hear its really great this time of year and the police are basically driven out of town.
ETA: I'm not supporting any of the police actions in this case, but blanket statements about police like the one above are asinine and a major cause of the problem.
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Native
Footballguy
Thanks. I see he was charged for second degree [SIZE=14.4444446563721px](involuntary) [/SIZE]manslaughter.
Overview of New York Involuntary Manslaughter Laws
[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html#sthash.ZCXRAWqc.dpuf[/SIZE]
Manslaughter is a form of homicide - conduct which causes the death of a person - committed when a defendant recklessly causes death (second-degree) or, with an intent to cause serious physical injury, causes death (first-degree). While some states refer to these separate offenses as "involuntary" or "voluntary" manslaughter, the New York Penal Code identifies them as manslaughter in the second degree and first degree, respectively. A person commits second-degree manslaughter when he or she (a) recklessly causes the death of another person; (b) commits an unjustified abortional act upon a female which causes her death; or © commits assisted suicide.
According to Section 15.05 of the Penal Code, a person acts "recklessly" with respect to a result or circumstance when he or she is "aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists." The risk that the person creates must be of such nature or magnitude that his or her disregard of it constitutes a "gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation."
timschochet
Footballguy
That's not smart.
But keep in mind that it's when peaceful protests are curtailed that violent protests inevitably erupt.
squistion
Footballguy
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Im sure this guy had at least 1 McChicken on him. These cops were in danger and had no other option.
This is the question and this is the issue which will cause the commotion. Police officer not indicted even though it can be reasonably argued he used excessive force as well as an unauthorized submission tactic and the officers action results in a death and the prosecutor could not get an indictment?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Any retail business that is cash heavy is unlikely to accurately report sales to the government.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
That's manslaughter at the very least. Illegal chokehold and totally reckless.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I cut officers a ton of slack when it comes to apprehending criminals. I think they should approach situations always thinking people have the worst intentions. It is truly the only way to ensure their own safety. I don't even take issue with the "illegal chokehold". If you are trying to arrest somebody and they are resisting, that should put you on ultra high alert and you should be very concerned.
I do take serious issue though with the fact that they just sit there and let the man die after they have full control of the situation. Once you have a man pinned down by several officers and handcuffed you can easily verify he is unarmed and maintain the upper hand at all times. At that point the concern for safety needs to shift to the vulnerable party.
I do take serious issue though with the fact that they just sit there and let the man die after they have full control of the situation. Once you have a man pinned down by several officers and handcuffed you can easily verify he is unarmed and maintain the upper hand at all times. At that point the concern for safety needs to shift to the vulnerable party.
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