cstu 6,086 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think it would be hard to be working 100 hours a week building a business and making only small amount of profit all the while being able to see the giant wad of players funds sitting in your bank account. My gut says he started out as a honest guy but eventually got burned out and figured he'd try to make his one big score. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thetman 8 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 His dad sounds like he's done very well. Is Mike the black sheep of the family? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyJabroni 116 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Found a profile of him on this website.http://www.opportunity-investor.com/authordetail.php?autid=1720he joined Nov of last yearNot sure what the website is...looks like a get rich quick type website?http://www.opportunity-investor.com/Well that's pretty interesting...Could be living in Texas according to that profile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyJabroni 116 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Cache of some of his twitter from years ago.http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wIbWc3oLPdoJ:https://twitter.com/unluckyz+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=usTalking about losing at poker and about a job that pays thousands a week! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushdocda 3,433 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 How crazy is it that Bernie madoffs name is pronounced Made Off. I would not invest with a guy named Brian Hieatmieater or George Scamsya either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
17seconds 556 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here he is folks.2:24 in the video Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyJabroni 116 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Cache of some of his twitter from years ago.http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wIbWc3oLPdoJ:https://twitter.com/unluckyz+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=usTalking about losing at poker and about a job that pays thousands a week!That glimpse at his twitter feed is making me think he might have turned into a degenerate gambler/sports addict/get rich quick dreamer.But who knows, just speculation. Edited December 16, 2014 by JimmyJabroni Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SacramentoBob 4,898 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Cache of some of his twitter from years ago.http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wIbWc3oLPdoJ:https://twitter.com/unluckyz+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=usTalking about losing at poker and about a job that pays thousands a week!That glimpse at his twitter feed is making me think he might have turned into a degenerate gambler/sports addict/get rich quick dreamer.But who knows, just speculation.I love that his location is SL, UT 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Shark 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here he is folks.2:24 in the videoWE GOT HIM !!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyJabroni 116 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here he is folks.2:24 in the videoWE GOT HIM !!! Nice work.Here's the pichttp://i58.tinypic.com/28slapw.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fruity pebbles 3,256 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SacramentoBob 4,898 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Now we just need Anonymous to go in and we can have this wrapped up by lunch tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davewhit 4 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The first tweet he posted on June 8th 2009 pretty much sums it all up as to what type of person we were giving our money to. He should have listened to his own tweets Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleachercreacher 247 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thetman 8 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thetman 8 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Like I said earlier, he probably looked at the year over year decrease in funds coming in and decided to steal the cash now This is my guess, as well.Dailys are crushing it, and I know several people dropping the head-to-head leagues to concentrate on FanDuel. Great time to walk away with everyone's investment. Serious question...what's to stop FanDuel or any of the other dailys from doing the same thing. Granted you wouldn't have the time invested but what if, after they collected a bunch of deposits at the beginning of the year they just closed up shop and bailed with people's cash? Hard to trust any website tied in any way to gambling. DFS sites are required by law to keep player funds separate from operating costs. As opposed to required by industry convention, or required by a promise they made on their own website.Also, FD and DK raised over $100m in venture capital between them this past offseason. They're not small operations. The sheer size alone offers some protections- just like you are probably safe leaving your money with a Vegas casino while you go gamble with their chips. Thanks for this info, Adam!Does anyone have information on how much we can trust LeagueSafe, or the various smaller DFS sites?I think sites are going to have to be up front and transparent as to how they are handling player money in the future. I'm leery as can be at this point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cstu 6,086 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either. No one should be angry with his dad but perhaps if he knows his son might be doing some serious prison time he could put pressure on him to pay back the money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynx4ben 16 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ironically, this was a coorespondence Mike sent to me not a few months ago: Mike Zangrilli <phenoms@gmail.com> Jul 24 to me Ben, You can't just rip-off your buddy. That's not fair to the league. I'm sure you're upset that I'm not letting you rip him off, but you know it's a rip-off. If you want to make a fair trade with him, that's OK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raiderfan32904 470 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ironically, this was a coorespondence Mike sent to me not a few months ago: Mike Zangrilli <phenoms@gmail.com> Jul 24 to meBen,You can't just rip-off your buddy. That's not fair to the league. I'm sure you're upset that I'm not letting you rip him off, but you know it's a rip-off. If you want to make a fair trade with him, that's OK.Last year, Mike overturned a trade of my Gore for Welker, because it wasn't "fair" to the league. Nevermind they were drafted within one pick of each other and Welker cooled off while Gore ramped up. Struck me as odd that Mike would care so much about a trade much less worry about how fair it was to the league. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cloppbeast 1,415 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ironically, this was a coorespondence Mike sent to me not a few months ago:Mike Zangrilli <phenoms@gmail.com>Jul 24 to me Ben, You can't just rip-off your buddy. That's not fair to the league. I'm sure you're upset that I'm not letting you rip him off, but you know it's a rip-off. If you want to make a fair trade with him, that's OK. you can't just rip off your buddy, but you can rip off thousands of strangers, apparently. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marauder 465 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think it would be hard to be working 100 hours a week building a business and making only small amount of profit all the while being able to see the giant wad of players funds sitting in your bank account.My gut says he started out as a honest guy but eventually got burned out and figured he'd try to make his one big score.My gut says he finally gave in to the temptation to gamble with our money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drunken Benson 17 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Here he is folks.2:24 in the videoAwesome work. (The lesson: never trust someone with modern art in his office.) Weakens the notion of the "long con", as appearing on local newscasts would be decidedly bad planning. Edited December 16, 2014 by Drunken Benson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Han Solo 92 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.I was thinking the same thing. Nice job from all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slider 617 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 If he did hide say 600k somewhere all this will be long forgotten to 99% in 4 years. He'll buy a place outside LA and enjoy life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MissionCoach 6 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 On US Search:Name/Aliases1,Michael Scott ZangrilliMike ZangrilliMichael KomanBob DuffyMike Koman2.Michael David Zangrilli Quote Link to post Share on other sites
massraider 10,856 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Found a profile of him on this website.http://www.opportunity-investor.com/authordetail.php?autid=1720he joined Nov of last yearNot sure what the website is...looks like a get rich quick type website?http://www.opportunity-investor.com/Well that's pretty interesting...Could be living in Texas according to that profile.Oh man, that website canNOT be good news.Add in a little poker habit, and I think I am developing a theory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Romofan 4 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dapitbull 0 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Did anyone talk to Mike on Gchat after Andrews email? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheWalk84 7 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I emailed Deadspin, KSL, 20/20, Dateline, and Nightline with the Phenoms story I will keep you guys informed on anything that happens with these news outlets 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hooper31 1,166 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This is the first I've heard of this site but can someone give me some background? How long have they been around? Who is this guy that ran it? I clicked on the link above to see the site and based on first impressions there's no way I would ever have signed up for that and sent money. It looks pretty amateurish.He was a long time board member (Unlucky) here at FBG. He started running leagues largely composed of guys that posted here. I can't remember the details, but he was a staff member for a bit. You would have to asked Joe or David for details there. I interacted with him a bunch. Seemed a solid guy and he built a great reputation here among board members. Hence, a guy like me isn't going to be so quick to condemn the guy. I'm not trying to excuse the guy's actions, but my default setting is going to be that he did something stupid and just flushed his life down the toilet. I understand why people would want to quickly condemn the guy as a thief, but someone like myself or Bri who have been around for a long time are going to withhold judgment without knowing more. I'm not excusing his actions because I don't really know what those actions were. Do I feel for guys that might be out $100 bucks? Sure. Some might be even out more than that. That blows and you have my sympathies, but like I said my default is that Mike did something stupid and his life is a heck of a lot worse than it was a year ago. How can any of us know for certain? I certainly don't. What "stupid" thing could he have done, other than take other peoples' money that was supposed to be put in escrow and spend the hell out of it?Arguably beyond stupid and into unethical.I don't disagree. That's arguable. I don't know what he did or didn't do. At this point it would just be speculation. Again, we all are going to have default settings. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt if I feel they've earned it. That's entirely a personal decision depending on you're talking about and how much interaction you've had with that person. I interacted with Mike more than most posting on this thread. I participated in one of his first batch of Greek leagues. Its understandable that others that didn't know him at all would jump right to the unethical side of things. I'm not alone in my position. You'll find several others in this thread that have known the guy for a long time. My best guess is he made a very poor business decision (and perhaps unethical). Maybe he trusted someone on the web development cite too much. Maybe he was naive when it came to the web development side of things. Again, just speculation. But this is the direction my speculation is going to head as opposed to "he pocketed the money and is sipping a tropical drink somewhere". Further, my speculation is headed towards the thought that Mike did something to #### up his own life and that he'll regret it for a long time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fatness 6,287 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwedHas it always been that way for Phenoms dynasty leagues, or did the need for 2 years pay suddenly develop this year? Edited December 16, 2014 by fatness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
humpback 1,109 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This is the first I've heard of this site but can someone give me some background? How long have they been around? Who is this guy that ran it? I clicked on the link above to see the site and based on first impressions there's no way I would ever have signed up for that and sent money. It looks pretty amateurish.He was a long time board member (Unlucky) here at FBG. He started running leagues largely composed of guys that posted here. I can't remember the details, but he was a staff member for a bit. You would have to asked Joe or David for details there. I interacted with him a bunch. Seemed a solid guy and he built a great reputation here among board members. Hence, a guy like me isn't going to be so quick to condemn the guy. I'm not trying to excuse the guy's actions, but my default setting is going to be that he did something stupid and just flushed his life down the toilet. I understand why people would want to quickly condemn the guy as a thief, but someone like myself or Bri who have been around for a long time are going to withhold judgment without knowing more. I'm not excusing his actions because I don't really know what those actions were. Do I feel for guys that might be out $100 bucks? Sure. Some might be even out more than that. That blows and you have my sympathies, but like I said my default is that Mike did something stupid and his life is a heck of a lot worse than it was a year ago. How can any of us know for certain? I certainly don't. What "stupid" thing could he have done, other than take other peoples' money that was supposed to be put in escrow and spend the hell out of it?Arguably beyond stupid and into unethical.I don't disagree. That's arguable. I don't know what he did or didn't do. At this point it would just be speculation. Again, we all are going to have default settings. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt if I feel they've earned it. That's entirely a personal decision depending on you're talking about and how much interaction you've had with that person. I interacted with Mike more than most posting on this thread. I participated in one of his first batch of Greek leagues. Its understandable that others that didn't know him at all would jump right to the unethical side of things. I'm not alone in my position. You'll find several others in this thread that have known the guy for a long time. My best guess is he made a very poor business decision (and perhaps unethical). Maybe he trusted someone on the web development cite too much. Maybe he was naive when it came to the web development side of things. Again, just speculation. But this is the direction my speculation is going to head as opposed to "he pocketed the money and is sipping a tropical drink somewhere". Further, my speculation is headed towards the thought that Mike did something to #### up his own life and that he'll regret it for a long time. What part of "you can't take prize money to pay for operating expenses" don't you understand? No speculation is necessary- that is 100% wrong, and that's the "best" case scenario here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Romofan 4 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwed Has it always been that way for Phenoms dynasty leagues, or did the need for 3 years pay suddenly develop this year?I think it's been that way for a while to encourage people to stick around rather than drafting a redraft type team selling all your draft picks and then quitting if you don't contend for the title. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robcards 9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwedHas it always been that way for Phenoms dynasty leagues, or did the need for 3 years pay suddenly develop this year?Never was 3 years pay, was this year and next for dynasty leagues. Was like that last year as well, not sure about before then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fatness 6,287 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I don't disagree. That's arguable. I don't know what he did or didn't do. At this point it would just be speculation.We do know some of what he did, though. He told everyone in all his leagues that, at best, the winners would get 20% to 40% of what they were supposed to win. So for starters he's not paying winners 60% to 80% of their money.Add to that the dynasty players who joined this year and had to pay for 2 years, when there isn't going to be a next year for them with a prize pool waiting.So we know that for starters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike11162 40 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwed Has it always been that way for Phenoms dynasty leagues, or did the need for 3 years pay suddenly develop this year?For any dynasty/keeper league it's always been that way. He refunds the deposit minus any shortage after he sells your team if you leave. I left a contract league at the end of last season and was lucky enough someone paid face value for my team, so I got my money back.Like I said in the other Phenoms thread, never had a problem with him paying out, but I guess I got out at the right time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fatness 6,287 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that players who joined Dynasty leagues this year (like me) for the first time at Phenoms had to pay year 1 AND year 2 (as a deposit). So in a $100 league you pay 200$. We got doubly screwedHas it always been that way for Phenoms dynasty leagues, or did the need for 3 years pay suddenly develop this year?Never was 3 years pay, was this year and next for dynasty leagues. Was like that last year as well, not sure about before then.I meant 2 years, so thanks for catching that. I fixed the post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hooper31 1,166 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What part of "you can't take prize money to pay for operating expenses" don't you understand? No speculation is necessary- that is 100% wrong, and that's the "best" case scenario here. I don't disagree. What we don't know is exactly where or why the money went somewhere else. There's a fairly vague description in the initial email. Speculate away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Shark 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here's some more interesting information I've dug up. The address matches. Could all our money have been invested and lost?http://www.bizapedia.com/ut/MIKE-Z-INVESTMENT-GROUP.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davewhit 4 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not sure if this surprises anyone, but when you click on the "about" section on the trust pilot review of phenomsff.com, it shows the business as being closed down and no longer operating. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/phenomsff.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slider 617 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Guy is probably a con. Chalk it up to life happens and know what goes around usually comes back around. If you didn't produce the person don't trust them with your money. If you did make them verify every step of the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dizzy 803 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here he is folks.2:24 in the videoWow, how ironic is it that he appears in a piece for consumer-advocate Bill Gephardt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
humpback 1,109 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What part of "you can't take prize money to pay for operating expenses" don't you understand? No speculation is necessary- that is 100% wrong, and that's the "best" case scenario here.I don't disagree. What we don't know is exactly where or why the money went somewhere else. There's a fairly vague description in the initial email. Speculate away.Your posts make it sound like you do disagree. Can you come up with any plausible scenario where he didn't completely screw over hundreds of people? If you want to argue "it may only be really, really bad instead of the really, really, really bad that some are speculating", knock yourself out. If you want to say that this might just be a big misunderstanding, sorry, but you've got your head firmly planted in the sand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Shark 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Annual revenue for Phenoms in 2011 was $46,000.00https://www.dandb.com/businessdirectory/phenomenterprisesllc-murray-ut-33255505.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheWalk84 7 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here's some more interesting information I've dug up. The address matches. Could all our money have been invested and lost?http://www.bizapedia.com/ut/MIKE-Z-INVESTMENT-GROUP.htmlInteresting… I am pretty sure this is the exact definition of wired fraud, if he used the escrow account to invest in anything Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Shark 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 One day after registering "Mike Z Investment Group" (April 12, 2011) he renewed Phenoms Enterprises LLC with his Murray, UT address (April 13, 2011). It appears Phenoms had been previously registered with his previous address in Salt Lake City.http://www.bizapedia.com/ut/PHENOM-ENTERPRISES-LLC.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tommyGunZ 4,637 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG. I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hooper31 1,166 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Your posts make it sound like you do disagree. Can you come up with any plausible scenario where he didn't completely screw over hundreds of people? If you want to argue "it may only be really, really bad instead of the really, really, really bad that some are speculating", knock yourself out. If you want to say that this might just be a big misunderstanding, sorry, but you've got your head firmly planted in the sand.Disagree with what?Did he screw people out of money? Sounds to me like that's not debatable. Mike ####ed up and other people are going to pay the price.Did he pocket that money? I doubt it, but that's my opinion of the guy based on history. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Shark 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheWalk84 7 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Mike just sent an email to a friend of mine, informing him Mike now has a "legal team" and he is reviewing his options and "solutions" with them...Kind of an ominous sign… Not that anyone expected to see much if any, but this seems to put the proverbial nail in the coffin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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