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I definitely lost more (hypothetically) since I'm in two championships and two consolation matchups next week. I'm also the points leader by a mile in one of my leagues. But at this point, all I want or hope for is my original buy-in. All the talk about what you would have won or think you are entitled to will only send you into a tailspin. Gotta let it go.
This one is pretty telling.Michael Zangrilli @UnluckyZ · 8 Jun 2009
Frustrated once again with baseball system. Tryin to get out of a hole, but keep digging deeper. Lesson: stay out of holes.
You're not going to see any of that money. I wouldn't blame anyone for trying to recoup whatever they can.
Considering the people who were going to "win" are not getting any money either, then no, it is not fraudulent for people who aren't even in the playoffs to request chargebacks. That's like saying it's ok for someone to make a bet with you without having the money to pay, and when you found out he didn't have the money to pay, you're fraudulent for not paying him.
I'm not in any of those leagues - but you seem to be the one that cares solely about your own self interest at this point.
He most definitely gambled it away. It's just a question of whether it was on baseball games and poker, or on a spurious software product. I never met the guy but he sounds like a risk taker through and through. In short - the last guy I'd want holding on to a large sum of money.
Well I didn't group hiring developers for fantasy football software in with 'gambling'. Also all of this "proof" that he has a gambling problem is 5 years old. I don't know about you, but I don't do most of the things I did 5 years ago, so that's still speculative at best to me. I think it's more likely that he made poor investments than made some sports bets or lost it in a poker game, that's all I'm saying.
I wonder how many in the future will try this in legit leagues. What if owners get there charge backs in this league when they shouldn't get any money back and then try to get their money back on other non fraudulent leagues where they didn't win? Tying to look big picture.
I wonder if my neighbor who's asking for his lawn mower that I borrowed back, will someday steal my snow blower from my garage.
Agreed. That's just as fraudulent as what Mike did.Yamato said:
Or, as Mike would say, +10000Banger said:
The people who deserve the money are not going to get it so everyone should try to get their payment back. People joined a league with the understanding that their money would go to the league's winner. Since that will not happen the league is void and people are entitled to their refund.Yamato said:
Yeah, if any money shows up, it'll be a land rush, with people trying to get entry money back.
I agree with the exception of dynasty league startups. Anyone in the first year of a dynasty league should get their money back.
Agreed. And I believe we're operating in real "fantasy" at this point, but say it came down to legal settlement at some point... an Arbitrator would view the Terms & Conditions that all players signed up for, and rule accordingly. Now during the crucial play-off period, you have teams that have mailed it in based on Mike's notification. Is it going to be easier for an arbitrator to review every league to determine exactly "who would have won what" if they had all kept playing... or simply refund everyone their entry fee?
Yeah, I fully expect to be wrong on this one. Just very, very surprising - I wouldn't have thought Unlucky was capable of this.The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.
I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.
I like where your heart's at GB but come on, the writing's on the wall here. The size of this is large. Gambling bartender (and whatever else he might be into) all of a sudden sinks the ship. Nobody's salvaging a dime here, although I hope I'm wrong. When does stuff like this turn out?
I understand wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's kind of lost that chance with how it was handled, no? Total surprise. Look at the timing. And there is no way he didn't see it coming. Hello??? That speaks volumes, imo. He waited to drop the bomb at an opportune time. Terrible sign. Um, that, and all the money that's gone.
This. As someone who is co-owner of a money league site (fantasybowl.com), we keep prize pool and user balance money in a separate account from operating expenses. This is the exact reason we do this, to prevent what happened to Phenoms from happening to us.
BoA is always great with disputes from me or the wife.
How much time had past between the disputed charge and when you contacted BoA though?
Banks maybe not, but if you used a credit card and pay absolutely you should get a refund. I feel very confident my CC companies will side in my favor. The CC company doesn't lose the money. PayPal will. The CC company wants you as a customer.
I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.
Masters take 20-25% depending on the league plus fees. Only pay top two. But in light of what has been happening I would rather them be able to make a living and charge higher fees than steal my money.
Not 90 days. But the PP/EB/BOA dispute was over concert tickets, which is normally difficult regardless of time between dispute and purchase.
Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.
A year long losing streak of betting baseball, where he facilitated the lie 13 months in advance? He did mention to us last year he was planning on building custom software and intended it to be ready for the 2014 season, and this summer he disclosed that it hit some snags and wouldn't be ready for the start of the season. I mean, what you're saying is still possible, but I think there is at least some truth to his story.
How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.
Absolutely could be some truth. But I also think it's possible he saw what was happening back then and was kind of setting the stage in case he didn't win the money back. The "truth" part being that there were cost over runs so he used that as his go-to story to soften things if he was unable to win his losses back and if he did win them back, no one would ever know.
Writing software is indeed expensive, especially for something like fantasy football. And I'm not sure people realize how much money it actually costs to run a fantasy site. And if your site is somehow dependent on another site (like MyFantasyLeague), well they're the weak link and can bring you down in ways that are out of your control. So obviously anyone who runs a site like this (as my company does) wants to have everything in house, under their own control.
Don't mistake what I said as justification for his actions in the slightest. I'm holding the torch along with everyone else. I want to see this man rot in jail for using our money on whatever he used it on, whether it was web development, gambling, or even if he donated it to charity to save kids with cancer. It wasn't his to play with.
