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Writing software is indeed expensive, especially for something like fantasy football. And I'm not sure people realize how much money it actually costs to run a fantasy site. And if your site is somehow dependent on another site (like MyFantasyLeague), well they're the weak link and can bring you down in ways that are out of your control. So obviously anyone who runs a site like this (as my company does) wants to have everything in house, under their own control.

But you can't dip into player funds to do so. You either build it yourself or you get a biz loan to fund it. You don't do it on the backs of your users.

Anyway, if people want an alternative to Phenoms see my sig. We've been running prize leagues for 16 years, and yes we keep player funds and operating funds in separate accounts, for obvious reasons.

Don't mistake what I said as justification for his actions in the slightest. I'm holding the torch along with everyone else. I want to see this man rot in jail for using our money on whatever he used it on, whether it was web development, gambling, or even if he donated it to charity to save kids with cancer. It wasn't his to play with.

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I debated for a day whether I should post since I am in the industry and am not a regular here but I have read every post, theory and idea how to possibly recoup what is rightfully the members money.

Mike is reading this thread and must be amused that his "divide and conquer plan" is working so splendidly. 25 percent of the "winners" from all the prize suckers who paid in are uniting against the

Young Chuck moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next Day he drove up and said, "Sorry, Son, but I have some bad news

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

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This has become a great thread for Phenoms' competitors to lure in some new suckers....errrr I mean customers.

Just kidding of course.

Never know....they certainly don't have post count going for them....

Edited by Bobcat10
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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

Why would anyone give him 600K? Never going to happen.

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

File your lawsuits before the bankruptcy.

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

File your lawsuits before the bankruptcy.

That wouldn't matter. You're a creditor in the bankruptcy either way.

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

600k short now, so his story doesn't even add up now. If it was only 200k instead of 630k for software, he said he would be fine.

Not that anyone believe his story to begin with, but he at least could have come up with a good story.

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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

He responded to me in less than an hour and explained to me their accounting. They do not use a trust account but they have player deposits in a separate account. Also, I did not ask for the bank information he just provided it.

Edited by FatUncleJerryBuss
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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

Is this a joke? Leaguesafe can do the same thing Phenoms did. It is all a trust issue, leaguesafe isn't federally backed.

Edited by FatUncleJerryBuss
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Bottom line is this guy has probably lawyered up. Has received advice not to pay anyone anything at this point. Most of you that were part of the leagues will get notices from a bankruptcy court asking if you want to assert a claim. Those of you that respond will end up getting a check for pennies on the dollar a year from now (if you are lucky) once the trustee divides what is left. And if it boils down to selling the programing code or whatever he talks about in his email--it could be even longer.

Sorry to be the cold water, but that is where I see this going.

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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

Is this a joke? Leaguesafe can do the same thing Phenoms did. It is all a trust issue, leaguesafe isn't federally backed.

How do you know? If they have the funds secured in bank accounts under the max for FDIC insurance, then they are fully insured.

I think you have some sort of an affiliation with Master's. This Mike guy did the same thing when other leagues went down. There was a forum thread and Mike came in to post how awesome his site is and how he would never do what others have done. Déjà vu, all over again.

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This has become a great thread for Phenoms' competitors to lure in some new suckers....errrr I mean customers.

Just kidding of course.

Never know....they certainly don't have post count going for them....

I just advise reading the fine print on fees. Was shocked that Hyper Active keeps 14% to run the league after paying for MFL.

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:ptts: should of used leaguesafe.com

Commish left a dynasty league I was in. New commish stepped up, but said he would not use leaguesafe like the previous commish. I left the league and everyone said I was some sort of an ### for trying to force the new commish to use the service.

It is human nature to trust people. I expect a huge league like Phenoms to fold every few years and new ones will pop up in its place. The only question is who will be the sheeple losing their money? If you are mad right now, you need to take a breath and get a little introspective. You paid money over the internet to a single dude to hold instead of requesting an escrow.

You have not lost all faith in humanity to ask for a service to hold the pool of funds. Point at the shirt.

Re-posted from another thread. From the stats I have seen, there is around an 80% chance that a huge league will fold every year. This means that nearly every year a huge league will fold. The Shark Pool will have another thread. The masses will be pissed and Google the guys name + search every database they can. There will be many "condolences" and Christmas will be ruined for many kids whose Dad was bitten by the moron bug.

Take some self-responsibility when you send money over the internet to a person you have never met.

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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.

Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/

Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.

How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.

It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

Is this a joke? Leaguesafe can do the same thing Phenoms did. It is all a trust issue, leaguesafe isn't federally backed.

How do you know? If they have the funds secured in bank accounts under the max for FDIC insurance, then they are fully insured.

I think you have some sort of an affiliation with Master's. This Mike guy did the same thing when other leagues went down. There was a forum thread and Mike came in to post how awesome his site is and how he would never do what others have done. Déjà vu, all over again.

There is nothing stopping the owner of leaguesafe of empting the accounts and taking the money like Mike. As for Masters I can give a #### less if anyone plays there or not. I was concerned about my money and wrote to them. I am simply passing that along here Homer. You seem to have the agenda not me. People know me here and know I have no affiliation with that site.

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:ptts: should of used leaguesafe.com

Commish left a dynasty league I was in. New commish stepped up, but said he would not use leaguesafe like the previous commish. I left the league and everyone said I was some sort of an ### for trying to force the new commish to use the service.

It is human nature to trust people. I expect a huge league like Phenoms to fold every few years and new ones will pop up in its place. The only question is who will be the sheeple losing their money? If you are mad right now, you need to take a breath and get a little introspective. You paid money over the internet to a single dude to hold instead of requesting an escrow.

You have not lost all faith in humanity to ask for a service to hold the pool of funds. Point at the shirt.

Re-posted from another thread. From the stats I have seen, there is around an 80% chance that a huge league will fold every year. This means that nearly every year a huge league will fold. The Shark Pool will have another thread. The masses will be pissed and Google the guys name + search every database they can. There will be many "condolences" and Christmas will be ruined for many kids whose Dad was bitten by the moron bug.

Take some self-responsibility when you send money over the internet to a person you have never met.

no need for this chief

99% of the people in the hobby are good honest folks that never have and never will meet face to face.

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Important to note that having segregated accounts for player money and operating funds doesn't mean anything. It's the escrow component that's actually important, but then you have to worry about the integrity of the counterparty holding the funds. FDIC insurance is great if the company goes bust for operations...but not for fraud by the person who has access to the account.

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

Let's hope he picks the right teams this weekend.

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a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

Why would anyone give him 600K? Never going to happen.

Maybe not necessarily give him $600k, but his leverage is pretty weak at this point. Since all of his leagues use (uh, used) MFL.com, they stand lose a large portion of those customers next season (and going forward).

Actually, if not doing so already, MFL.com could see by the contents of this thread alone that they could hire/sanction Project Managers (we would call them Commissioners) like Mike, guarantee the safety of the purse, and grow their business.

I mean, this thread is drooling with desperation. There are posts by folks in here that just got ripped off by a guy on the internet, a guy that came highly recommended by Shark Pool members... and are asking for a recommendation on another guy on the internet that they can hand their cash over to.

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Guest General Tso

a few updates:

MyFantasyLeague's official twitter said they were shocked and appalled by what happened with Phenoms and they were meeting together today to discuss what they can do to help this situation (perhaps provide free hosting next year for phenom members?)

Mike has informed some members via email that he planning on filing bankruptcy for the company if he can't get 600K in the next two weeks

Let's hope he picks the right teams this weekend.
Thanks man. I needed a good laugh!

Was it Jimmy Swaggert who famously said to the Congregation that he had to raise a million dollars by the end of the week or "God is gonna take me home"? Maybe we'll see Mike on the Old Time Gospel Hour.

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If his company does file bankruptcy, then those with access to Pacer can get copies of the BK filings. Those filings should reveal whether there is a software creditor. Plus, any payments made in the last 90 days to the creditor can be retrieved by the Trustee and BK court. Just in case he actually DID pay someone with a preferential payment, that might be a good thing for the other creditors because that money can maybe be recovered.

Edited by buck naked
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You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

I am in 70 leagues over there. They sent me a snap shot of their bank account and told me their accounting procedures when I brought this subject up with them.
Here is a snapshot of Mike's Wells Fargo account: http://postimg.org/image/ryr3m9cv1/
Their was not fake like that one. It was done so I could toggle between the account balances.
How do you toggle in a "snapshot"? Elaborate on how this was done because it makes no sense right now.
It is was a cut and paste of their money market account. In the top right you can change between accounts. I can see the balances of two other accounts when I hit the drop down button.

Cut and paste with a drop down menu? Sorry, but your explanation has gone from bad to worse. I am a DBA, and if they sent you something offline, it is not actually connecting to the bank's database. There is no way they gave you a login to their bank account, so all you have right now is your lying eyes. At the same time, the owner of Master's has been asked twice if he uses an escrow and there has been no response. Simple as this, do not sign up for any league that does not use an escrow service like leaguesafe.com.

Is this a joke? Leaguesafe can do the same thing Phenoms did. It is all a trust issue, leaguesafe isn't federally backed.

How do you know? If they have the funds secured in bank accounts under the max for FDIC insurance, then they are fully insured.

Sure, they might be fully insured, in the event that the bank goes under. If you give your money to leaguesafe, them putting it in an FDIC insured account doesn't do you any good if they decide to keep it.

I can't make sense of most of this conversation. They cut and pasted a snapshot of their bank account with an active dropdown menu so you could see their accounts? What does that even mean?

Even IF you could somehow log into their bank and see that they had two separate accounts for "prize money" and "operations money," so what? If they don't pay you, what difference does it make where they put it? You're giving your money to a stranger, you either trust that they're going to pay you back or you don't. Don't get fooled by screenshots of bank balances, or some kind of assurances that the money is held in trust.

IMO stick with the large, reputable companies (CBS,Yahoo, etc. for season-long, FD and DK for dailies) or you're always running the risk that they guy behind the website is going to walk with your money.

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Bottom line is this guy has probably lawyered up. Has received advice not to pay anyone anything at this point. Most of you that were part of the leagues will get notices from a bankruptcy court asking if you want to assert a claim. Those of you that respond will end up getting a check for pennies on the dollar a year from now (if you are lucky) once the trustee divides what is left. And if it boils down to selling the programing code or whatever he talks about in his email--it could be even longer.

Sorry to be the cold water, but that is where I see this going.

:goodposting:

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IMO stick with the large, reputable companies (CBS,Yahoo, etc. for season-long, FD and DK for dailies) or you're always running the risk that they guy behind the website is going to walk with your money.

CBS and Yahoo offer dynasty FF leagues that they manage the prize money for? We really don't have any option if we want to play dynasty/keeper leagues for real money. I took to dynasty twitter and ended up with 2 cheap $50 dynasty leagues, that's it. What Mike offered was something unique that you couldn't really find at a "reputable" company.

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IMO stick with the large, reputable companies (CBS,Yahoo, etc. for season-long, FD and DK for dailies) or you're always running the risk that they guy behind the website is going to walk with your money.

CBS and Yahoo offer dynasty FF leagues that they manage the prize money for? We really don't have any option if we want to play dynasty/keeper leagues for real money. I took to dynasty twitter and ended up with 2 cheap $50 dynasty leagues, that's it. What Mike offered was something unique that you couldn't really find at a "reputable" company.

also from what i've been told aren the payouts at cbs/yahoo etc. terrible?

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Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.

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I mentioned this before, but for all those saying "he just spent the money it happens". What mike did is the VERY definition of Embezzlment... the state of Utah is in the midst of persecuting a person for the exact same thing.. Interesting note, she stole 1.3 million, and if mike is looking for 600k along with the 681 k he currently has, that is 1.3 million as well

Regardless, in the state of Utah, anything more 9,999.00 taken is a class two felony, punishable by up to 20 years in prison for the first offense.

Take into account if he used any of that money to purchase stock/software/ski vacation, that is wire fraud, for each purchase he made.

The more publicity this gets, the more pressure he will be under.

Bankruptcy will not keep him out of jail, especially considering they are actively persecuting guys like mike. If he cuts a deal for a shorter jail sentence in exchange for making everyone whole, so be it, but it baffles me that so many people think mike will just declare bankruptcy and give the finger to everyone, he is in deep trouble from a variety of angles

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I mentioned this before, but for all those saying "he just spent the money it happens". What mike did is the VERY definition of Embezzlment... the state of Utah is in the midst of persecuting a person for the exact same thing.. Interesting note, she stole 1.3 million, and if mike is looking for 600k along with the 681 k he currently has, that is 1.3 million as well

Regardless, in the state of Utah, anything more 9,999.00 taken is a class two felony, punishable by up to 20 years in prison for the first offense.

Take into account if he used any of that money to purchase stock/software/ski vacation, that is wire fraud, for each purchase he made.

The more publicity this gets, the more pressure he will be under.

Bankruptcy will not keep him out of jail, especially considering they are actively persecuting guys like mike. If he cuts a deal for a shorter jail sentence in exchange for making everyone whole, so be it, but it baffles me that so many people think mike will just declare bankruptcy and give the finger to everyone, he is in deep trouble from a variety of angles

How do we know he has 681k? If we take his "only able to pay 20-40%" statement to be true, he has far less than that...

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I mentioned this before, but for all those saying "he just spent the money it happens". What mike did is the VERY definition of Embezzlment... the state of Utah is in the midst of persecuting a person for the exact same thing.. Interesting note, she stole 1.3 million, and if mike is looking for 600k along with the 681 k he currently has, that is 1.3 million as well

Regardless, in the state of Utah, anything more 9,999.00 taken is a class two felony, punishable by up to 20 years in prison for the first offense.

Take into account if he used any of that money to purchase stock/software/ski vacation, that is wire fraud, for each purchase he made.

The more publicity this gets, the more pressure he will be under.

Bankruptcy will not keep him out of jail, especially considering they are actively persecuting guys like mike. If he cuts a deal for a shorter jail sentence in exchange for making everyone whole, so be it, but it baffles me that so many people think mike will just declare bankruptcy and give the finger to everyone, he is in deep trouble from a variety of angles

How do we know he has 681k? If we take his "only able to pay 20-40%" statement to be true, he has far less than that...

Touchdown post a snapshot of it dated 12/16

If you think about it, he has basketball/hockey/keeper/dynasty leagues to pay out in addition to the prize pool this year, so I could believe 681 would be about 25-30% of what he could pay out to the winners

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That was actually a real screen shot of Mike's account? I assumed it was a fake and a joke. What lawyer would let Mike send out a screenshot of his checking account?

It was a fake I did in 2 minutes in Paint to show how easy it is. Looked real?

Looks nothing like the real thing.

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I'm really surprised this happened, I have been in his leagues for the past three years, including baseball and football. Anytime that I ever won money I received the money promptly and he was a regular here on the forums. I know his brother is the play by play announcer for the Pirates and his dad has a decent amount of money, why couldn't he just have borrowed if from them? There's no way anyone is going to get their money back if he files bankruptcy it's even a longer shot to get the money back from a lawsuit. I agree that we should pursue legal action against this guy and I find the fact that he is deciding whether or not to pursue the Web Developer for legal action to be laughable.

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I'm really surprised this happened, I have been in his leagues for the past three years, including baseball and football. Anytime that I ever won money I received the money promptly and he was a regular here on the forums. I know his brother is the play by play announcer for the Pirates and his dad has a decent amount of money, why couldn't he just have borrowed if from them? There's no way anyone is going to get their money back if he files bankruptcy it's even a longer shot to get the money back from a lawsuit. I agree that we should pursue legal action against this guy and I find the fact that he is deciding whether or not to pursue the Web Developer for legal action to be laughable.

His brother is what?

:bs:

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I'm really surprised this happened, I have been in his leagues for the past three years, including baseball and football. Anytime that I ever won money I received the money promptly and he was a regular here on the forums. I know his brother is the play by play announcer for the Pirates and his dad has a decent amount of money, why couldn't he just have borrowed if from them? There's no way anyone is going to get their money back if he files bankruptcy it's even a longer shot to get the money back from a lawsuit. I agree that we should pursue legal action against this guy and I find the fact that he is deciding whether or not to pursue the Web Developer for legal action to be laughable.

His brother is what?

:bs:

Well that's what he has stated to those of us who have participated in his leagues in the past, but with his elaborate lie, you bring up a valid point.

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I'm really surprised this happened, I have been in his leagues for the past three years, including baseball and football. Anytime that I ever won money I received the money promptly and he was a regular here on the forums. I know his brother is the play by play announcer for the Pirates and his dad has a decent amount of money, why couldn't he just have borrowed if from them? There's no way anyone is going to get their money back if he files bankruptcy it's even a longer shot to get the money back from a lawsuit. I agree that we should pursue legal action against this guy and I find the fact that he is deciding whether or not to pursue the Web Developer for legal action to be laughable.

His brother is what?

:bs:

no nans: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/personality/dan-zangrilli/

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