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Phenoms going under (1 Viewer)

I joined 5 Phenoms leagues this year and I'm in the finals in 3 of them next week. In line for points leader in 2 of them as well. Pretty good for my first year playing for money but that's not the point. The point is, I'd rather just get my entree fees back than screw around waiting for a potential part payout of the prize money, even though I stand to potentially almost triple my investment. Is it morally wrong of me to ask for my entree fees back? It's kind of a moot point since I payed via paypal without a CC, just wondering how some of you who are condemning non-winners attempting chargebacks feel about someone like me attempting chargebacks. At this point my guaranteed winnings would already be almost as much as my entry fees, even if I don't win all my games this weekend. But I still want to pull out because the integrity of the competition has been compromised and I doubt I'll see even 20/40%, ever.

 
I'm not one of those impacted but just a thought on the whole "chargeback" thing and who should be requesting one...if this could end up leading to some sort of action, 1000 people claiming they were defrauded out of a service they each paid $100 for could have more weight than 100 people claiming they were defrauded out of $1000 each in winnings of a fantasy football league.

 
I'm not one of those impacted but just a thought on the whole "chargeback" thing and who should be requesting one...if this could end up leading to some sort of action, 1000 people claiming they were defrauded out of a service they each paid $100 for could have more weight than 100 people claiming they were defrauded out of $1000 each in winnings of a fantasy football league.
I don't think it matters much in the scenario you mention. 100 people or 1000 people scammed sounds just as bad.

 
I'm not one of those impacted but just a thought on the whole "chargeback" thing and who should be requesting one...if this could end up leading to some sort of action, 1000 people claiming they were defrauded out of a service they each paid $100 for could have more weight than 100 people claiming they were defrauded out of $1000 each in winnings of a fantasy football league.
True. The first is easy to prove, immediately... entry fee was paid, website is closed, football is still being played, I want a refund.

The "legal action" scenario could take years, if ever, and that's after legal action actually starts. And even then the result might be the same.

 
Fuzzy, do you use an escrow service?
I do not use League Safe or an escrow account. I never really thought about it as this is the first time I have been asked. The payments go into my business account and then I transfer them into what used to be an ING account (Now Capital 360) every few days during the draft season. Every penny gets transferred into those accounts (I don't take my share until everything is paid out.) Members that leave money in their accounts during the offseason stays in the Capital 360 accounts. As some noted on this thread - it is a lot of work but it is for about 8-9 months out of the year. I used to teach (kids - lots of them lol), I was an accountant (long hours) - I know I am blessed with what I do. I don't need to go work for someone else and the profits combined with my web development business suits me just fine. It was a life long dream to operate a profitable business and not work for someone else - don't know how anyone else would want to blow that dream! Yea, I guess addiction can do that. As noted before, I don't gamble. The most I paid for a fantasy football league has been $300 but I prefer to stay in the $100 range for my own leagues. Anyhow, I guess that was a long answer to the escrow service or League Safe question. I could look into these options if necessary.
Solid stuff that you came in to discuss your business model, Fuzzy. Good to hear that you keep it in a separate account. Note that ING went bankrupt in 2008 and was bailed out by the Dutch government for 13+ billion. Also, if the funds are in the ING money market, they are not guaranteed. The next 2008 style economic collapse could easily wipe out those funds. The good news is that you have many months to decide the best security model for those funds before next season. Good luck!

 
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I joined 5 Phenoms leagues this year and I'm in the finals in 3 of them next week. In line for points leader in 2 of them as well. Pretty good for my first year playing for money but that's not the point. The point is, I'd rather just get my entree fees back than screw around waiting for a potential part payout of the prize money, even though I stand to potentially almost triple my investment. Is it morally wrong of me to ask for my entree fees back? It's kind of a moot point since I payed via paypal without a CC, just wondering how some of you who are condemning non-winners attempting chargebacks feel about someone like me attempting chargebacks. At this point my guaranteed winnings would already be almost as much as my entry fees, even if I don't win all my games this weekend. But I still want to pull out because the integrity of the competition has been compromised and I doubt I'll see even 20/40%, ever.
Paypal has a 90 day window and if you if paid with cash, you do not have the redundancy of disputing with a credit card that went through Paypay. You can try, but likely a waste of time. Anywone who paid with a CC or Paypal with a CC should definitely chargeback.

 
"obtain on CC chargebacks"---- could someone please explain to this ole man what this means and/or where can I get the form.

Have filed with the AG in UT and my state of Missouri. (see my post yesterday with the links for the forms)...........

Is anyone going to enter any playoff contests, if so, where do you recommend - yahoo, CBS, etc.............

Thanks & Merry Christmas with good health

jack

 
Does anyone have a clue how far back you can go with chargebacks? I'm in the third year of a dynasty and Mike has been holding a $200 deposit I paid through a CC.

 
As a preliminary matter, sorry to all of those that have, or will likely, lose money as a result of this. A few things to consider (but not to be construed as any legal advice). First, when the company files bankruptcy, which it will almost certainly will, the trustee will likely seek to clawback all monies paid out in the 90 days before the filing. As a result, any attempts at chargebacks may only provide temporary satisfaction. Second, the trustee will try to maximize money for the bankruptcy estate (and to pay the fees she and her firm will charge) and may try to have past winners pay back anything in excess of money paid in. I believe something similar happened with Madoff. The trustee will also likely pursue other remedies to recover money paid to his family/friends/etc. and possibly go after his personal assets. Third, I expect that the trustee's fees may significantly diminish whatever is left in the estate. In the end, there will be very little left to pay anyone and any attempt to get ahead of the curve may be for naught.

I don't do bankruptcy law and certainly not in Utah or whereever else the company may be located but an involuntary bankruptcy might be a thought if enough people get together. Someone licensed in the right jurisdiction and who knows this area can better speak on this. I think that you need to get at least 3 creditors with at least $15,000 in money owed. It may take 150 owners to hit this number but I think that there are that many out there. This is something that should be considered because it puts a trustee in place immediately to try to marshall and preserve assets (subject to point three above, i.e., the trustee's fee will be paid first and may eat up a large portion of the bankruptcy estate).

Again, this isn't legal advice but merely some thoughts.

 
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I think everyone needs to stop worrying about bankruptcy, charge back, or how they will be getting their money. Let every individual figure that part out. First and foremost Mike is probably driving a Mercedes on his way to Mexico. I think Justice is more important.

 
I think everyone needs to stop worrying about bankruptcy, charge back, or how they will be getting their money. Let every individual figure that part out. First and foremost Mike is probably driving a Mercedes on his way to Mexico. I think Justice is more important.
I really doubt that. I don't know Mike like some others, but I've had enough interaction with him to know he got himself into some trouble financially and the pot of money he's been holding has been slowly eroding over time. Doesn't justify his actions, but I'm guessing he's in a world of hurt financially right now that he brought onto himself.

 
I think everyone needs to stop worrying about bankruptcy, charge back, or how they will be getting their money. Let every individual figure that part out. First and foremost Mike is probably driving a Mercedes on his way to Mexico. I think Justice is more important.
I really doubt that. I don't know Mike like some others, but I've had enough interaction with him to know he got himself into some trouble financially and the pot of money he's been holding has been slowly eroding over time. Doesn't justify his actions, but I'm guessing he's in a world of hurt financially right now that he brought onto himself.
Maybe but it is pure speculation. I really don't think anyone really knows Mike. When these schemes fail, most try to make a huge cash grab to hoard as much possible. And yes this was a scheme, there is no way prize money funds should have been used. Everyone knows Mike is monitoring this thread, at any point he could chime in.

 
"obtain on CC chargebacks"---- could someone please explain to this ole man what this means and/or where can I get the form.
Just call the 1-800 number on the back of the credit card that processed the transaction. Get to a rep and ask to file a dispute on a transaction for services not received. They will likely send you over to another department. File the chargeback with that rep who will send you a letter in the mail. When you get the letter, sign it and fill out any additional information they ask for and mail it back. They will investigate from there and make a decision on your claim.

 
i mean, if you cant trust a stranger from the internet to hold over 650k, who can you trust?

oh, he took the money..........hth

 
Does anyone have a clue how far back you can go with chargebacks? I'm in the third year of a dynasty and Mike has been holding a $200 deposit I paid through a CC.
Not 100% positive, but I believe each credit card company has different rules and processes for the charge-backs. Most likely your time frame is 90 days to 1 year. Probably not worth your time to attempt if it has been 3 years.

 
Does anyone have a clue how far back you can go with chargebacks? I'm in the third year of a dynasty and Mike has been holding a $200 deposit I paid through a CC.
Not 100% positive, but I believe each credit card company has different rules and processes for the charge-backs. Most likely your time frame is 90 days to 1 year. Probably not worth your time to attempt if it has been 3 years.
http://taratalkstoday.blogspot.com/p/get-your-money.html

Some good information here, not sure if it is dated. Tara claims that you have 540 days on services not delivered + an additional 120 days from the day you become aware of the fraud.

 
That's not the case at all. (yes it is)

I have set up a few leagues with Leaguesafe and I researched them before I did several years ago and, at the time I set them up, they were set up to collect deposits which are FDIC secured and held in a bank in Montana or the Dakotas (I forget the exact name but I recall thinking at the time it was odd it was not one of the more known banks...which I checked into and verified).

I would also speculate that there is a great chance that they are not holding "lazy" money so these deposits are probably going into very short-term C.D.'s, etc, and they are using capital to pay winnings, sitting on short term small rakes off these safe investments, and trickling in revenue there.

My company does this on a huge scale (lots of revolving accounts that are constantly coming due, reinvesting, etc. Simple software makes it very manageable and with enough money flowing, you can scrape off income that makes it worthwhile.

ALso, I know you can say this about anyone and be wrong but I know the history of the Leaguesafe people and I would be SHOCKED if they pulled a stunt like this (of course, can be wrong, for sure).

Unfortunately I can not explain things to people like you because you have no understanding of what FDIC secured means. I will give you the short version. FDIC means the government protects your money if the bank goes under, it has nothing to do with protecting your money from theft by leaguesafe, wcoff, antsports or phenoms.

 
How about any owner that wouldn't have won any $$ who is fortunate enough to get the entry fee rebated to their cc ( if there is any, I don't see it happening) man up and send the money to the winner of their league?

Anyone who doesn't has about the same amount of decency and integrity as Mike.
Excellent idea. I HIGHLY doubt people who can somehow justify to themselves that they deserve to get their money back, after losing their league, is going to do that, though.
You're at a casino. You put $100 on the blackjack table, along with a bunch of other people. While the ball is spinning, the croupier steals all the payout chips.

Are you not entitled to compensation if the ball doesn't land on your number?

 
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

 
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Unfortunately I can not explain things to people like you because you have no understanding of what FDIC secured means. I will give you the short version. FDIC means the government protects your money if the bank goes under, it has nothing to do with protecting your money from theft by leaguesafe, wcoff, antsports or phenoms.
This is correct.

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
I think what is important is that the only realistic way the winner is getting paid at this point is if all of the other losing teams in the league happen to get their money back, and make the right decision to send that money to the actual winner. It's a complete hail mary but it's simply not going to happen any other way.

 
JohnnyU said:
FatUncleJerryBuss said:
Unfortunately I can not explain things to people like you because you have no understanding of what FDIC secured means. I will give you the short version. FDIC means the government protects your money if the bank goes under, it has nothing to do with protecting your money from theft by leaguesafe, wcoff, antsports or phenoms.
This is correct.
It is true for all but LeagueSafe, which positions itself as an escrow service. There is another thread pinging LeagueSafe personnel and we hope to find out soon. Some people are clearly anti-LeagueSafe and this should give the company an opportunity to clarify and earn additional customers if they are doing things right.

 
Touchdown There said:
Touchdown There said:
Futz said:
Does anyone have a clue how far back you can go with chargebacks? I'm in the third year of a dynasty and Mike has been holding a $200 deposit I paid through a CC.
Not 100% positive, but I believe each credit card company has different rules and processes for the charge-backs. Most likely your time frame is 90 days to 1 year. Probably not worth your time to attempt if it has been 3 years.
http://taratalkstoday.blogspot.com/p/get-your-money.html

Some good information here, not sure if it is dated. Tara claims that you have 540 days on services not delivered + an additional 120 days from the day you become aware of the fraud.
From reading it, I think that might just be a UK thing...

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
I think what is important is that the only realistic way the winner is getting paid at this point is if all of the other losing teams in the league happen to get their money back, and make the right decision to send that money to the actual winner. It's a complete hail mary but it's simply not going to happen any other way.
So in other words, I know I'm a guy you know only from the internet, but you can trust me to send you the money you won.....

Hmmmm, where have I heard that before? :shrug:

 
CalBear said:
Grigs Allmoon said:
ROCKET said:
How about any owner that wouldn't have won any $$ who is fortunate enough to get the entry fee rebated to their cc ( if there is any, I don't see it happening) man up and send the money to the winner of their league?

Anyone who doesn't has about the same amount of decency and integrity as Mike.
Excellent idea. I HIGHLY doubt people who can somehow justify to themselves that they deserve to get their money back, after losing their league, is going to do that, though.
You're at a casino. You put $100 on the blackjack table, along with a bunch of other people. While the ball is spinning, the croupier steals all the payout chips.

Are you not entitled to compensation if the ball doesn't land on your number?
The "Ball" dropped after week 14 games....

 
CalBear said:
Grigs Allmoon said:
ROCKET said:
How about any owner that wouldn't have won any $$ who is fortunate enough to get the entry fee rebated to their cc ( if there is any, I don't see it happening) man up and send the money to the winner of their league?

Anyone who doesn't has about the same amount of decency and integrity as Mike.
Excellent idea. I HIGHLY doubt people who can somehow justify to themselves that they deserve to get their money back, after losing their league, is going to do that, though.
You're at a casino. You put $100 on the blackjack table, along with a bunch of other people. While the ball is spinning, the croupier steals all the payout chips.

Are you not entitled to compensation if the ball doesn't land on your number?
The "Ball" dropped after week 14 games....
The money was gone before then. The result of the ball dropping is irrelevant to whether the casino is going to pay out. The roulette wheel is a distraction; everyone's money got stolen, there was never a game.

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

 
Just got this via email from Phenoms

**NOTICE**

This notice follows the letter posted to the site and emailed last Saturday. In that letter, it was noted that Phenom Enterprises, LLC ('Phenoms') was facing financial problems. Phenoms has received a significant number of emails and other communications in the wake of that letter--this notice responds generally to the concerns raised in them.

After conferring with legal counsel, and barring some intervening event (such as an acceptable offer to purchase the company), Phenoms will be pursuing bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, a trustee will be appointed who will take control of all of Phenoms' assets and make distributions to claimants according to relevant legal requirements. Additionally, the bankruptcy court and the trustee will oversee and review company finances.

Due to the foregoing, you are invited to update your account information at https://www.phenomsff.com/account/editprofile.php. You should then be on the lookout for a notice regarding filing a claim against Phenoms, which will be sent via mail and/or email, and posted on Phenoms' website (phenomsff.com).

Phenoms cannot answer questions regarding the time-line of the bankruptcy process nor the amounts claimants could expect to receive. Those answers are ultimately dependent on the bankruptcy court process. Relevant updates will be posted on Phenoms' website.

Thank you.

Sent by Phenoms Fantasy Sports: https://www.phenomsff.com

[SIZE=11pt]Mike Zangrilli, Owner & Commissioner[/SIZE]

 
Raiderfan32904 said:
lynx4ben said:
I think everyone needs to stop worrying about bankruptcy, charge back, or how they will be getting their money. Let every individual figure that part out. First and foremost Mike is probably driving a Mercedes on his way to Mexico. I think Justice is more important.
I really doubt that. I don't know Mike like some others, but I've had enough interaction with him to know he got himself into some trouble financially and the pot of money he's been holding has been slowly eroding over time. Doesn't justify his actions, but I'm guessing he's in a world of hurt financially right now that he brought onto himself.
Yes we should all feel sorry for Mike the fraud.

 
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
This is not true. If there are funds to be recovered and split amongst the winners, anyone who lost could potentially have their chargeback taken out of pool of money to pay the winners, screwing them over even more. This of course is all dependent on how much money remains and where it is located, but none of us know right now and won't until more information comes out. If you lost and initiate a chargeback you are stealing from either the winners, paypal, or your credit card company, none of which are acceptable to me.
What is your percentage of zero? Because that's how much money will be recovered.

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
Shouldn't people just be happy to get their money back rather than cry about not getting their winnings? Chances are that no one is getting anything unless they go the chargeback route, so why criticize people for getting everything they can back from the ####### who robbed us? Call it a lost season and move on.

 
Touchdown There said:
Futz said:
Does anyone have a clue how far back you can go with chargebacks? I'm in the third year of a dynasty and Mike has been holding a $200 deposit I paid through a CC.
Not 100% positive, but I believe each credit card company has different rules and processes for the charge-backs. Most likely your time frame is 90 days to 1 year. Probably not worth your time to attempt if it has been 3 years.
It's my understanding the bank practices in this area come from requirements under Fair Credit Billing Act (Billing Errors) or Claims and Defenses rights under Regulation Z. Terms around these should be pretty consistent. There are limits to use of each of those rights. JMHO, I believe this scenario would more squarely fit under claims/defenses, and it is worth noting a cardholder is limited to seeking reversal of any unpaid portion of a disputed balance under claims/defenses. For those who pay off credit card balances monthly, they would need to try to shoe horn this into Billing Error under FCBA, but the deadline for those disputes is 60 days after first statementing of the transaction, among other conditions. Your credit card agreement would better describe the dispute process, and requirements you must meet before disputing.

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

 
The ball on this is roling. Things have been started and there is no going back. Every man for himself! <_<

 
The ball on this is roling. Things have been started and there is no going back. Every man for himself! <_<
Correct, he is keeping the money. He just sent an email saying he is declaring bankruptcy. He probably read the thread for ideas on how to best fool the public. He stole your money; no ifs, ands, or buts. You wont' be getting money back.

Your best best is to continue to pursue the options with consumer protection and the attorney general. The best way to do this is to call the numbers that were listed earlier in the thread.

 
I just saw a guy cross the Rio Grande into Mexico carrying a big burlap bag that had the word 'Phenoms' on it.

 
BusterTBronco said:
People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.
Ridiculous. The complaints are legit and people deserve to get their money back.

Based on the last email it's official, he's going to declare bankruptcy, which means "winners" will be getting pennies on the dollar if that.

Everyone should be attempting to chargeback the fraudulent charge that phenoms made to their CC.

 
SCYCPA said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Also for those complaining about people who didn't cash charging back their CC's please stop.

They entered the leagues under the pretense that they would have a chance to win money, they weren't delivered what they paid for.

Everyone who can should be charging back their CC's. Hate to break it to the "winners" but the odds are you're not getting paid anything. Charge everything you can back, you were scammed and not given the product you paid for.
I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.
Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?
The way I calculated mine, I'd do a chargeback for $100 for the entry fee in the league you won. The $100 in the other league was lost whether this happened or not.

For the claim for the bankruptcy court, though, I'd list myself as a creditor for $500 less anything that I recovered through the chargeback process.

I've got 17 of them, mostly dynasties, went through every league and did them this way. Have 2 different numbers, one for the potential bankruptcy claim reflecting all winnings, one for the chargeback process, done this way.

 
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This was always going to be the end game for Mike, though he was maybe being naive about what was really going to happen. After he got lawyered up, he sees the light. It's every man for himself.

 

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