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Phenoms going under (2 Viewers)

jon_mx said:
Dr. Octopus said:
jon_mx said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
jon_mx said:
Of course if no FBGer attends and represents the potential fraud of taking out $700,000 last year potentially was, the trustee may not go back that far and pursue it.
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$700,000 isn't the amount that was taken out; it's the amount that went in.
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OK, so the $700K figure people are throwing around is just deposits into the business account for last year. But at some point the money had to come out and it should be fairly easy to track where it went to. Depending on where it went, the trustee can sue if he determines one creditor was given preferential treatment. Maybe even if the money did go to a software developer, which few people give any merit too. Things can really get hairy for Mike if he took out the money for personal reasons.
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The $727,190 is what he claimed as 2013 income on his statement of financial affairs in his filing.

He listed $1,000,000 in gross receipts (estimated, pre-tax) for 2014.

Preferential treatment only applies to payments made in the last 90 days before filing - which are:

$20,000 to PayPal

$1,300 to American Express

$156,413 to Secure Bancard
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It can be extended if it was done to an insider such as a friend or business partner.
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In the case of a fraudulent conveyance, yes. If it was a normal business partner (i.e. outside vendor), it may not even be a preferential treatment within the 90 day period.

I'm not sure about the American Express payment but PayPal and Secured Bancard payments may either be business expenses (which would probably put them ahead of the unsecured creditors [prize winners] anyway), or they could be prize payments made to baseball winners (in which case they could get clawed back into the bankruptcy (but not sure how they would go back and collect from numerous individual winners, assuming PayPal already distributed it out).

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
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So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).

 
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fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere.
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Yeah, that's the "funniest" thing to come out of this.

 
Received a letter today from Jeffrey Mortimer (presuming this is his bankruptcy attorney), instructing me to file a proof of claim by May 26th.

 
Its probably good news that the Trustee has already retained outside counsel based on the petition alone, a month before the meeting of creditors. That indicates the Trustee believes there is a reasonable likelihood of recovery, or at least there's something worth investigating. Of course, the downside is he's already billing the estate for his services, which will deplete the funds available to pay allowed claims.

"Based upon the trustee’s preliminary investigation in this case, the trustee believes it is necessary to employ counsel to assist in recovering assets for the estate and in investigating and litigating, as necessary, claims relating to the same for the benefit of the estate."

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Its probably good news that the Trustee has already retained outside counsel based on the petition alone, a month before the meeting of creditors. That indicates the Trustee believes there is a reasonable likelihood of recovery, or at least there's something worth investigating. Of course, the downside is he's already billing the estate for his services, which will deplete the funds available to pay allowed claims.

"Based upon the trustees preliminary investigation in this case, the trustee believes it is necessary to employ counsel to assist in recovering assets for the estate and in investigating and litigating, as necessary, claims relating to the same for the benefit of the estate."
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That does not sound good for Mike or anyone he might have made a large payment too. The process is working.

 
Got my letter last night and since I am clear across the country in DE with a last name starting with Y (eliminating the alphabetical order possibility), I'd venture to guess everyone who is listed should have something by tomorrow at the latest.......

 
El If I No said:
Got my letter last night and since I am clear across the country in DE with a last name starting with Y (eliminating the alphabetical order possibility), I'd venture to guess everyone who is listed should have something by tomorrow at the latest.......
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I got one in the mail today. I'm in Kentucky. Interestingly enough the attorney must be just mass mailing the entire customer database since I got one and haven't played in a Phenoms league for the last 2 years.

 
da_budman said:
El If I No said:
Got my letter last night and since I am clear across the country in DE with a last name starting with Y (eliminating the alphabetical order possibility), I'd venture to guess everyone who is listed should have something by tomorrow at the latest.......
Click to expand...
I got one in the mail today. I'm in Kentucky. Interestingly enough the attorney must be just mass mailing the entire customer database since I got one and haven't played in a Phenoms league for the last 2 years.
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That's unfortunate. The wasted postage could significantly reduce the available funds to be paid out.

 
RUSF18 said:
da_budman said:
El If I No said:
Got my letter last night and since I am clear across the country in DE with a last name starting with Y (eliminating the alphabetical order possibility), I'd venture to guess everyone who is listed should have something by tomorrow at the latest.......
Click to expand...
I got one in the mail today. I'm in Kentucky. Interestingly enough the attorney must be just mass mailing the entire customer database since I got one and haven't played in a Phenoms league for the last 2 years.
Click to expand...
That's unfortunate. The wasted postage could significantly reduce the available funds to be paid out.
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Its common practice in business bankruptcy cases, unfortunately. In large reorgs like GM or United Airlines, the paper/copying/postage costs will be 7 figures by the time the case closes. A business is always going to send notice to every company or individual who remotely touched the business going back several years. That's to make sure the court can be confident that anyone who has an interest in the case is made aware and given the opportunity to participate, object, etc. In this case, of the ~1600 general unsecured creditors listed, the great majority are stated to have a claim amount of "unknown." The bad news is the amount of actual filed claims will most likely exceed the amount of scheduled unsecured debt, which was just over $1m. Even though is a federal crime to misrepresent a bankruptcy claim, people always file exaggerated claims in the hopes of getting something back. The professionals who have to vet and confirm those filed claims, file objections to bogus claims, etc. will of course be billing their time to the estate.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
RUSF18 said:
da_budman said:
El If I No said:
Got my letter last night and since I am clear across the country in DE with a last name starting with Y (eliminating the alphabetical order possibility), I'd venture to guess everyone who is listed should have something by tomorrow at the latest.......
Click to expand...
I got one in the mail today. I'm in Kentucky. Interestingly enough the attorney must be just mass mailing the entire customer database since I got one and haven't played in a Phenoms league for the last 2 years.
Click to expand...
That's unfortunate. The wasted postage could significantly reduce the available funds to be paid out.
Click to expand...
Its common practice in business bankruptcy cases, unfortunately. In large reorgs like GM or United Airlines, the paper/copying/postage costs will be 7 figures by the time the case closes. A business is always going to send notice to every company or individual who remotely touched the business going back several years. That's to make sure the court can be confident that anyone who has an interest in the case is made aware and given the opportunity to participate, object, etc. In this case, of the ~1600 general unsecured creditors listed, the great majority are stated to have a claim amount of "unknown." The bad news is the amount of actual filed claims will most likely exceed the amount of scheduled unsecured debt, which was just over $1m. Even though is a federal crime to misrepresent a bankruptcy claim, people always file exaggerated claims in the hopes of getting something back. The professionals who have to vet and confirm those filed claims, file objections to bogus claims, etc. will of course be billing their time to the estate.
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I apologize for wasting your time in providing a real answer to my stupid comment.

 
Joe Bryant said:
weinster666 said:
I wonder if an footballguy staff members can respond to this question:

It appears Mike Zangrilli was or is a staff member of footballguys.com

http://apps.footballguys.com/staff.htm

According to the Phenoms web site "about" information (https://www.phenomsff.com/help/about.php )

In 2003, Footballguys.com approached me about running leagues for their website. We worked on a plan, but in the end, they decided against adding leagues to their website. I decided to continue what I had started by creating Phenoms Fantasy Football. The Greek Leagues laid the foundation, thus the Greek Letter naming system for the leagues.

I was hoping if a Footballguys staff member could provide more details about this claim.

Was/is Mike a Footballguys.com staff member?

Was there discussions with Mike back in 2003 about running legaues on Footballguys.com?

If so, what was Mike's background or qualifications for this? Did Mike have web developer/designer experience?

If Mike was/is a web developer, that makes me question even more the valididty of his claims that he hired some 3rd party web developers and their overcosts caused him to reach this point.

W666
Click to expand...
Hi Folks,

This is accurate. We considered way back in 2003 expanding Footballguys and getting into the league management area and talked to Mike about it. We decided not to do it as we felt it just wasn't a market we wanted to get in. Partly because we felt the market was already being extremely well served by both the sites like MFL and also the super tough free competition from the big sites that were doing league management.

I don't recall exactly what kind of web / tech ability Mike had. But developing our league management software wasn't in the plans. And as I remember, Mike really didn't play much into the decision not to do the leagues. It was that the market was already being served and we felt our time / effort would be better spent on developing the content we were already doing with Footballguys. So he went forward with doing his Phenom leagues as everyone knows.

I'm super bummed to see it play out like this. Sucks so hard.

J
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You better keep this front and center. I just received a letter today about the bankruptcy and this is the first thing that came across my mind.

 
17seconds said:
BTW, you guys know that it's very common for a software development project to take 3X the original budget right? I don't think the $630K is a made-up number. You need to know how to handle project costs spinning out of control. The $200K plan was probably 2 or 3 developers for less than a year and it was on Mike to manage it properly.
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone confirmed that this POS is not the Phenoms guys? What a freaking loser!

 
Slider said:
His name is ruined. Unless he changes it and moves to another country this will follow him the remainder of his life.
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Because 0.000001% of the population using Phenoms and on a few fantasy football message boards know he's a moron (or thief if you believe that)?

 
acapella said:
Hey jon_mx. Thanks for joining the thread. I see you are the only remaining friend to Unlucky on the board. Hmmmm.
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Never occurred to me to check I was in a league with him the last couple of years. Didn't have much good to say about him on this thread. Just trying to keep the discussion real from some of the hysteria, speculation, and misinformation. Like explaining why a class-action lawsuit would be a waste of time against a company going into bankruptcy.

 
I just got the bankruptcy letter but had not played in a league at phenoms since 2007 or 2008, they must be mailing every address in the database. I don't know how many letters are going out but it sucks that there is going to be a bunch of wasted postage like mine.

 
Got my letter today. I played at Phenoms from 2007 - 2013 with no problem and Mike seemed a decent commish. But when I read in the offseason that he was ditching MFL for his own platform, I went with MFL's own MFL100s leagues. Got lucky that I got out when I did. Hope you guys get back as much as possible.

 
acapella said:
17seconds said:
BTW, you guys know that it's very common for a software development project to take 3X the original budget right? I don't think the $630K is a made-up number. You need to know how to handle project costs spinning out of control. The $200K plan was probably 2 or 3 developers for less than a year and it was on Mike to manage it properly.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, has anyone confirmed that this POS is not the Phenoms guys? What a freaking loser!
Click to expand...
This doesn't seem excellent.

 
acapella said:
17seconds said:
BTW, you guys know that it's very common for a software development project to take 3X the original budget right? I don't think the $630K is a made-up number. You need to know how to handle project costs spinning out of control. The $200K plan was probably 2 or 3 developers for less than a year and it was on Mike to manage it properly.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, has anyone confirmed that this POS is not the Phenoms guys? What a freaking loser!
Click to expand...
nothing in the post you quoted is defending Mike at all.

 
fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).
Click to expand...
If the website isn't even functional, then it's probably not worth a whole lot, regardless of what was spent to develop it.

Apparently $70K is what he thinks it could be sold for.

 
davearm said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).
Click to expand...
If the website isn't even functional, then it's probably not worth a whole lot, regardless of what was spent to develop it.

Apparently $70K is what he thinks it could be sold for.
Click to expand...
Also interesting is the amounts in his paypal and wells fargo accounts. This means that anyone who lost their league and filed a chargeback is indeed stealing from the winners as their payouts will be reduced even more.

 
GreenNGold said:
davearm said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).
Click to expand...
If the website isn't even functional, then it's probably not worth a whole lot, regardless of what was spent to develop it.

Apparently $70K is what he thinks it could be sold for.
Click to expand...
Also interesting is the amounts in his paypal and wells fargo accounts. This means that anyone who lost their league and filed a chargeback is indeed stealing from the winners as their payouts will be reduced even more.
Click to expand...
Let's be clear on this: There's one person who stole from everyone, and that's Mike.

 
GreenNGold said:
davearm said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).
Click to expand...
If the website isn't even functional, then it's probably not worth a whole lot, regardless of what was spent to develop it.

Apparently $70K is what he thinks it could be sold for.
Click to expand...
Also interesting is the amounts in his paypal and wells fargo accounts. This means that anyone who lost their league and filed a chargeback is indeed stealing from the winners as their payouts will be reduced even more.
Click to expand...
How can zero be reduced more? Good for anyone lucky enough to recoup their entry fee from this con, whether they would have won any money or not.

 
I got my letter yesterday and am in the process of filling out a Proof of Claim.

Item 3 says to list the last 4 digits of any number by which creditor identifies debtor.

Does anyone know if one was given by the debtor and how can I find this?

Thanks

 
I was in two $100 leagues. Finished 1st in one and 4th in other. Filed two chargebacks with Amex which I used to fund my Paypal. One was successful and this POS is fighting the other. He uploaded a statement that had a screenshot of his return policy, and also said that the customer participated in the league and service was completed. I just uploaded a screenshot of his own site which has his letter admitting he blew everyone's money and sorry. Not sure how he can argue that. If anyone else has any advice on what I could upload in my dispute that' be great.

And to the people here who think if you lost your league you shouldn't file a chargeback, you're clueless, and this how scammers like Mike win. The raffle analogy is perfect. If you run a $1000 raffle and 1000 people pay $1, then you spend the money and say sorry and give the winner his $1 back and tell the 999 people they would of lost anyway, its doesn't mean the other 999 people weren't cheated. These leagues turned into a criminal enterprise as soon as he spent the entry fees.

EDIT: Also got the bankruptcy letter today. Not filing a claim since I had 1 out of 2 successful chargebacks.

 
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Oklahomka Kid said:
I was in two $100 leagues. Finished 1st in one and 4th in other. Filed two chargebacks with Amex which I used to fund my Paypal. One was successful and this POS is fighting the other. He uploaded a statement that had a screenshot of his return policy, and also said that the customer participated in the league and service was completed. I just uploaded a screenshot of his own site which has his letter admitting he blew everyone's money and sorry. Not sure how he can argue that. If anyone else has any advice on what I could upload in my dispute that' be great.

And to the people here who think if you lost your league you shouldn't file a chargeback, you're clueless, and this how scammers like Mike win. The raffle analogy is perfect. If you run a $1000 raffle and 1000 people pay $1, then you spend the money and say sorry and give the winner his $1 back and tell the 999 people they would of lost anyway, its doesn't mean the other 999 people weren't cheated. These leagues turned into a criminal enterprise as soon as he spent the entry fees.

EDIT: Also got the bankruptcy letter today. Not filing a claim since I had 1 out of 2 successful chargebacks.
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Wow @ him fighting the chargeback. That's ridiculous. I haven't heard a word from my cc company since they credited my account in late December so im assuming he hasn't fought it but now after hearing this im not sure. Anyone know what kind of deadline is on the business disputing chargebacks? I'm at about 40 days now

 
Just got an email from one of my leaguemates sent out a notice that MFL will transfer over all our league information and be hosted for free next year. We still have to figure out who wants to be commish, and for sure we will need to recruit some new owners (maybe half the league). If anyone is interested send me a PM. It's $50/yr plus $50 deposit. It's a deep format, start 2QB, start 2 Def, start 2 PKs, start up to 5 WR, up to 4 RB, up to 3 TE. 14 total starters.

I loved this league! First time I have played in this format, and would have been league champion last year. Oh well...

 
I got the letter today. I am owed $2100. I am not a lawyer, what are we supposed to do with this if we want to be paid. The letter is foreign to me, read it 3 times and now just annoyed. Help.

 
Keith Lewis said:
I got the letter today. I am owed $2100. I am not a lawyer, what are we supposed to do with this if we want to be paid. The letter is foreign to me, read it 3 times and now just annoyed. Help.
Click to expand...
You will need to file a Proof of Claim for any chance to get any money out of this.

 
when you guys say "letter" do you mean a paper letter? or an email? because I haven't received anything.

also, those that used paypal (connected to your bank account) have any luck getting your bank to refund your entry fee?

 
GreenNGold said:
davearm said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Dr. Octopus said:
He's claiming to have only $224,500.00 in assets.

$109,000 in Wells Fargo account,

$43,000 in Paypal

$5,000 in a DWolla.com business account

His other assets are $70,000 (value for a New Fantasy League Hosting platform)

$2,500 for Phenoms.com domain name
Click to expand...
So his new fantasy website that he says cost him $600K in his initial email is only on the bankruptcy claim for $70K which means he lied and that money has gone elsewhere (most likely to him personally).
Click to expand...
If the website isn't even functional, then it's probably not worth a whole lot, regardless of what was spent to develop it.

Apparently $70K is what he thinks it could be sold for.
Click to expand...
Also interesting is the amounts in his paypal and wells fargo accounts. This means that anyone who lost their league and filed a chargeback is indeed stealing from the winners as their payouts will be reduced even more.
Click to expand...
smh
 
Stopped playing before this year, but haven't received any mail about class action. But I did change my contact info a few weeks back. So that is probably why.

 
I would go but I'm in Pennsylvania and if I had the money to randomly fly out there I wouldn't be worried about the amount of winnings I lost... <_<

 
1) Where are you guys getting Mike's financial information?

2) Would Mike have to provide proof of payments to the so-called software developers?

W666

 
weinster666 said:
1) Where are you guys getting Mike's financial information?

2) Would Mike have to provide proof of payments to the so-called software developers?

W666
Click to expand...
1) Some is coming from the bankruptcy schedules for the LLC, some is pure speculation.

2) He will answer questions under oath at the creditors meeting. Otherwise, the chap 7 trustee now controls the assets of the LLC and the former owner has no obligation to prove anything unless he's sued.

 
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