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Phenoms going under (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnW1970
- Start date
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
purestrength
Footballguy
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Dizzy
Footballguy
This needed a little touch-up.
Utah is where con artists come to cash in and retire due to the high "gullibility factor" embedded in the culture here. Mike Zangrilli was one of Bill Gephardt's (of Utah's famed Gephardt Approved) approved experts on fantasy football. Utah small business' pay big money to get Gephardt Approved... maybe this guy had other friends in high places as well?
The judges and state attorneys here are constantly being turned over and investigated for illegal activities. Fraud being the most common.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The case is still pending. The Trustee filed a motion this summer seeking to sell the intellectual property of the debtor, which is the software and domain name. The Trustee's motion indicated Phenom Enterprises had paid $500,000 prepetition to develop the software and listed its value as $70,000, but noted the software is still inoperable. The domain name was listed with a value of $25,000. The Trustee had previously sought authority to pay the same software developer (End Point) approx. $2,000 to develop a working model for purposes of marketing the software for sale.
The sale failed to produce a buyer. There were no interested buyers and the software and domain name were abandoned by the Trustee this summer.
Total professional fees to date (Trustee, Trustee's lawyer and Estate Accountant) are over $60,000. The Trustee's lawyer is now in the process of objecting to claims. Phenoms listed 8,200 subscribers as creditors, and undoubtedly many of those filed bogus or inflated claims. Before he can distribute funds, the Trustee will need to object to the bogus claims and litigate if necessary to ensure accuracy of claims to be paid. The fact that he's taken this step (objecting to claims) means there is still some cash left in the bankruptcy estate, which will be used to pay his fees. If/when all the cash is exhausted, the trustee's lawyer will no longer want to pursue his objections and the Trustee will most likely close the estate.
NREC34
Footballguy
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
What's it like walking through life dropping these sort of judgments on people you've never met? People that have a story that you don't even know the tiniest proportion of their tale.
I don't know Mike Z. I don't know his whole story. I played in one of his Greek leagues many years ago. I know he attempted to partner with Joe Bryant and Dave Dodds in some fashion. No idea how that worked (or didn't) out. I guess there's a chance that he purposefully looked to dupe some folks out of their money. I have my doubts, but it could have happened I guess. That said, isn't it more likely he tried to create a business and failed?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Failed and tons of people lost money. You're right. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Sorry I thought this was a message board and didn't realize the self righteous police were watching.Hooper31 said:
Wait... are you Mike Z???
2nd edit: Okay so after your post I re-read his apology letter. I don't think he is a terrible human being. Just a terrible business person.
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Hooper31
Footballguy
Not exactly. I'm guessing I'm one of the few posting around here that didn't spend years hiding in anonymity. My name used to be plastered next to my avatar.
Fair enough. He made mistakes and ultimately paid an enormous price. The guy was really into fantasy football. He tried to make a living out it and fell flat on his face. Sad that he took down so many other people with him. I feel bad for all involved.
the rover
Footballguy
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Well, I have to say I had given up on this after what...almost 3 years?....but today I got a letter from the law firm stating that, if I understand this correctly, there is around $129K left to be disbursed to claimants. Looks like we may be getting around 38.9% of what we were owed, and the names and payments of the claimants are actually itemized on the forms they sent. For me that comes to $439.74 which I would gladly settle for. Has anyone else received this in the mail?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Will that letter go to all players or just those of you have been proactive with keeping up with it in writing?
As for his apology, he can take it and shove it up his ###. He's a crooked ****.
As for his apology, he can take it and shove it up his ###. He's a crooked ****.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
As long as you filed your claim form by the due date you should be on the list.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
I've been getting all correspondence even though I hadn't played there in over a decade, had no outstanding debts owed, and never submitted any forms.
buck naked
Footballguy
All unsecured creditors/players who did not give up hope and filed a claim in the BK will get the same % payout of their claim amount, which was way more than I expected and way more than 50 pages of negativity expected.
buck naked
Footballguy
Fresh Prince of Bel Nor
Footballguy
I Just got my notice last night. Like everyone else who has posted, I am surprisingly hopeful that I actually see some payment. It was interesting seeing all of the names I recognized from leagues over the years. It was also made me feel a little less sorry for myself for not getting the $900 in winnings I had coming to me after seeing other people's totals. One guy had claimed $20,000! Granted it is all relative. I simply don't have the disposable income to play high stakes, but still. Imagine being conned out of $20,000!
Hankmoody
Footballguy
If he's a crook, he's a terrible one. He left $129K for people to be repaid with.
So I wonder how many people that accused him of criminal behavior, cheating people and absconding with their money, will come back in here and retract or apologize?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Why do you believe anyone owes an apology? The bottom line is that he took money that wasn't his to take - a lot of it. You can put whatever spin you want on that, but there it is.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
There's no difference. If he would have given the money to charity it wouldn't matter. He knowingly took money that was not his to take. If he wanted to grow his business he should have done so out of his margin and/or business loans. He didn't do that. He took money that was to be paid out to others and misappropriated it for his own benefit. Yes, that is theft.
Why do you feel the need to defend his behavior, much less having the chutzpah to call for those he stole money from to now show up here and apologize?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
He didn't misappropriate it to his own benefit, but you're probably right and from the customers' point of view it's no different. I got locked onto the point that if he wasn't intentionally pocketing the money and wasn't just taking off with it. At first it was his money and then as costs continued he went full ponzi in that fashion, and it was bound to collapse. Is it known if criminal charges have been filed?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
It's not my intent to get into an argument but rather a discussion. Could you please explain your rationale for the statement quoted above?
GregR
Footballguy
I think there is a difference. Maybe not enough to matter to those affected, and not enough anyone should be expecting an apology. But if we're going to just have a discussion, there is a difference to me.
Imagine you're a judge for two situations, fairly identical to this one but differing from each other in one regard.
One of them the person invested the money in the business legitimately thinking doing so would reduce costs in a fashion that would recoup the invested money in time no payments were missed, but it didn't play out that way. The other the person took all the money and spent it on hookers and blow and gambling until things collapsed.
You're the judge and have to assign sentence for each somewhere between a stated minimum and maximum sentence. Would you not feel the second situation deserves a harsher sentence than the first?
If so, the reason for feeling that way is the difference. Though both are still wrong without doubt.
Imagine you're a judge for two situations, fairly identical to this one but differing from each other in one regard.
One of them the person invested the money in the business legitimately thinking doing so would reduce costs in a fashion that would recoup the invested money in time no payments were missed, but it didn't play out that way. The other the person took all the money and spent it on hookers and blow and gambling until things collapsed.
You're the judge and have to assign sentence for each somewhere between a stated minimum and maximum sentence. Would you not feel the second situation deserves a harsher sentence than the first?
If so, the reason for feeling that way is the difference. Though both are still wrong without doubt.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not really, the prize money should have been held in escrow. It wasn't his to invest. I guess he's not a straight up crook, but he still did something wrong.
bleachercreacher
Footballguy
I believe it was to his own benefit. He was trying to make his own software, so he could quit paying MFL so much money. Eventually, that would've been money in his pocket.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
We're not actually going to rehash the first 50 pages of this thread, are we :^ /
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I am sorry........ that I trusted him with my money in the first place.Hankmoody said:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
GregR said:
I think that's a great story, but I find it difficult to believe that he was not fully aware that he was using money that was not his to use. He set up the leagues, the conditions, and the payouts. So aftet doing this for a while, he suddenly loses track of the fact that he has to pay out winners? That just doesn't jibe. And what he intended to do absolutely would benefit him. Same rake but substantially less operating costs.
You guys are right, he's a crook and used money that wasn't his for his benefit.
How in the world is this any different from the people in jail who took money that wasn't theirs and tried to invest it and profit from it? They get caught because they pissed it away like he did and "lost" it unintentionally. It's the same story that's happened many times before. It's called embezzlement and unfortunately for him, he wasn't able to put the money back in the kitty before it was noticed. The intent or goodness of his heart doesn't matter, it was done.
If the guy wanted to take a financial risk on his business there are plenty of ways to do it without using other people's money that he had been entrusted with. Those people had no knowledge or gave any consent to invest their money (not his) into what supposedly was a flawed business venture (who knows?).
If he wanted to start a business he could have tried to get financing thru legitimate means or put his own money, house, savings on the line. This isn't someone who just got caught up in a failing business, it's someone who cheated people out of money. There is no way any of the winnings should have ever been risked or spent on anything besides paying the winners regardless of the intent.
I am surprised there is anything left after the lawyers and secured creditors have taken their share so at least it looks like the people scammed will get some % of the embezzled money back. Please don't rationalize what this guy did as anything other than stealing.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Exactly.. a crook is a crook.
wakelawyer
Footballguy
Does anyone know if the Trustee was able to sell the software? Or the domain name?
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
He was not - those assets were abandoned, probably back to the owner. When the case was filed there was about $245k in cash. Estate costs (mostly lawyers fees) were about $100k and he's distributing about $130. A few claims were designated "priority" claims and paid in full - about $6k. The remaining general unsecured claims (all seem to be ff players) were paid just under 40%. For what its worth, it is very rare for a chapter 7 case to pay that high a dividend to general unsecured debt.
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wakelawyer
Footballguy
Agreed. That's why I was wondering if they were able to monetize the software or IP. It also makes you wonder if this is a situation where he could have avoided bankruptcy.
