Phenoms going under

[mattlambertson 0]

I'm winning all 3 of my Phenoms semi-final games and it makes me so bummed that it was all for nothing...

Sorry to hear that. I would have split my 4 semifinals. I can't even remember my lineups I submitted last Wednesday. Usually I'm tweaking and juggling my lineup on Sunday morning. I didn't much care today to even watch.

Yeah, I'm still rooting for my players out of pride more than anything else. There's one league I've been dominating all year and I'll be damned if I don't win it even if I get nothing for it.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this forum, so I can follow what happens via people a lot more knowledgeable than me. I got the email late last night while slightly intoxicated and I could hardly believe it wasn't a bad dream in the morning.

[todd2006 0]

I googled the phenom's phone number and found the following info: 801-712-1875 - Millicent Caldarera, White Cony Cir, Salt Lake City, Utah

For whatever it's worth.

[ookook 0]

Is it possible that the web development company has filed a lawsuit for the remaining $430,000, Phenoms has refused to pay since it is still not complete, and that the remaining assets of the Phenoms are frozen?

I have no idea if this is legally possible. I just re-read Mike's email and that seems plausible. Say he brought in $900,000 and uses the $200,000 as the initial payment, placing the rest to be used as prize money in an account for holding. If he is then forced to pay $430,000, Phenoms would have to declare insolvency.

It would make more sense than already having paid all $630,000 knowing it would ruin the business. It also jives with the part about "the business would have remained profitable for years" if the web league software had been completed on budget and in time.

Personally, I am not buying Mike stole the money in a careful plan until I see more evidence. But he may have made some bad business decisions and entered into an agreement that allowed the developer to have a legal right to the remaining assets of the company.

[ILUVBEER99 1,369]

Personally, I am not buying Mike stole the money in a careful plan until I see more evidence. But he may have made some bad business decisions and entered into an agreement that allowed the developer to have a legal right to the remaining assets of the company.

yeah i highly doubt he set this up as a long con. Probably made bad business decisions and got in over his head.

[mattlambertson 0]

The frustrating part is that even if this was just bad business decisions, the customers should have been involved in the process. Even before this news came out, I was wondering why he was going to the trouble of creating his own league management website, when the standardized format of MFL works perfeclty fine and also allows me to manage all my leagues, even the non-MFL leagues, in one place.He could have consulted his customer base about whether or not the upgrade was worth it, especially after making us aware of the risks. Especially since it's our money...

Edited December 15, 2014 by mattlambertson

[ROCKET 195]

GL to all the people who most likely won't get their $$. I know how it feels as I (and many others I know locally) got burned by a company two years ago for 75K they owed me when they went belly up. I ended up recouping about 40K (long story) and the 35K hit will take me years to overcome.

Did you get 40K because you fought it or did they just give it to you?

Just curious, really not sure how to proceed here..

It's a long story and I won a judgement against the company for 75K. It was a construction company that folded and screwed a ton of subcontractors on their way out. The owner was a real p.o.s. and drove the company down the toilet following his father's death (of course the guy that built the business and left it to him).

Even when I started the project I knew the company was struggling but they were reputable and had been around forever. The ONLY reason I agreed to do the project was because it was a library which was publicly funded. That would mean the project would be bonded and if the GC went belly up then the bonding company would have to bail out the subs.

Only one problem, the library trustees who were in charge of the project never made sure the guy had bought the bond for the project with the 60K he charged them to provide it. Complete incompetence and in the State of VT I couldn't even sue the town and the trustees for their negligence. I ended up with what was left of the contract money that wasn't stolen by the pos GC who pocketed all the money they got without ever paying anyone a dime. Everyone got about 60% of what they were owed in the end. And the crooked pos filed bankrupcy, owes banks millions of dollars along with the IRS (not to mention the hundreds of people he screwed) and will never do one minute of jail time.

Unfortunately this is an all too common scenario.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ROCKET

[Binky The Doormat 12,677]

I am not in any of these leagues, but I feel very bad for everyone that is. I hope this doesn't keep you from finding and joining leagues in the future. I wish the best to you all.

Same here - I can lose money in legit leagues easy enough.

I wanted to know if we have any mild mannered blood splatter experts here in the thread?

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡ 728]

Some of you guys might be looking for Mike in the wrong place. He's got ties to PA, I think. And the WHOIS gives another phone number.

Domain Name: phenomsff.com
Registry Domain ID:
119776970_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server:
whois.pairnic.com
Registrar URL:
https://www.pairnic.com
Updated Date:
2010-04-27T20:23:26+0000Z
Creation Date:
2004-05-11T16:24:46+0000Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
2015-05-11T16:24:46+0000Z
Registrar: pairNIC INC
Registrar
IANA ID: 99
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
abuse@pairnic.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone:
+1.8887247642
Registry Registrant ID: 1518730
Registrant Name:
Michael D Zangrilli
Registrant Organization: Phenom
Enterprises
Registrant Street: c/o pairNIC.com Whois Privacy PO
Box 42319
Registrant City: Pittsburgh
Registrant
State/Province: PA
Registrant Postal Code: 15203
Registrant
Country: US
Registry Admin ID: 1518731
Admin Name: Michael D
Zangrilli
Admin Organization: Phenom Enterprises
Admin Street:
c/o pairNIC.com Whois Privacy PO Box 42319
Admin City:
Pittsburgh
Admin State/Province: PA
Admin Postal Code:
15203
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.4123257437
Admin
Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:
phenoms@gmail.com
Registry Tech ID: 1518731
Tech Name: Michael
D Zangrilli
Tech Organization: Phenom Enterprises
Tech Street:
c/o pairNIC.com Whois Privacy PO Box 42319
Tech City:
Pittsburgh
Tech State/Province: PA
Tech Postal Code:
15203
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.4123257437
Tech
Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:
phenoms@gmail.com
Name Server: NS55.PAIR.COM
Name Server:
NS0000.NS0.COM

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

My money (which is ironically gone) is on that Mike is bad at business and not a scam artist.

I have run the financial side of a business for close to 20 years, this has nothing to do with being bad at business. It has everything to do with being bad at ethics. You get a business loan to pay for software not player deposits.

Edited December 15, 2014 by FatUncleJerryBuss

[Raider Nation 5,597]

He logged in to Timleeg to adjust his lineup an hour ago. Love that he is still setting his lineup even though there isn't money for payouts. That's dedication.

Fighting to advance to the finals.

[Shutout 2,013]

Looks like he got tired of paying MyFantasyLeague all those hosting fees and tried to build the capability to do that himself.

He had a good thing going. I guess he wanted more.

Nice to have a decision like that available. No sweat off their backs to use a ton of other people's money in order to avoid spending a significantly less amount on support.

I got no dog in this fight and won't lose money but I would be calling BS and would go after the books.

[cstu 6,086]

Some of you guys might be looking for Mike in the wrong place. He's got ties to PA, I think. And the WHOIS gives another phone number.

That's

Personally, I am not buying Mike stole the money in a careful plan until I see more evidence. But he may have made some bad business decisions and entered into an agreement that allowed the developer to have a legal right to the remaining assets of the company.

yeah i highly doubt he set this up as a long con. Probably made bad business decisions and got in over his head.

I doubt it was a long con, but when the site wasn't as profitable as he thought it would be he then got the idea to run off with million dollars.

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡ 728]

He logged in to Timleeg to adjust his lineup an hour ago. Love that he is still setting his lineup even though there isn't money for payouts. That's dedication.

Fighting to advance to the finals.

Nobody chiming in on the chatboard?

[Raider Nation 5,597]

He logged in to Timleeg to adjust his lineup an hour ago. Love that he is still setting his lineup even though there isn't money for payouts. That's dedication.

Fighting to advance to the finals.

Nobody chiming in on the chatboard?

Not a lot of smack talk in this league. Especially since my team stinks.

[BroncoFreak_2K3 2,550]

He logged in to Timleeg to adjust his lineup an hour ago. Love that he is still setting his lineup even though there isn't money for payouts. That's dedication.

Fighting to advance to the finals.

Nobody chiming in on the chatboard?

Franchise Owner Activity

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Last Visited This Page

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[IC FBGCav 5,668]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

[17seconds 556]

A former colleague of mine recently went to a startup company that is doing something new in fantasy sports. Going to launch in 2015. Backed by some big names in online poker. Made him aware of what's going on with phenoms. Who knows, maybe they would be interested at least in the customer base.

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

http://assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/valuationInfo.cfm?Parcel_id=22182040110000&nbhd=661&PA=

County Tax records

[timschochet 33,375]

Tim's Fantasy Football League is in it's 3rd year in the Footballguys Free For All forum. It's a 16 player league. All 3 years it's been run by Phenoms. I feel really bad for the people expecting to win some money this year. It's not right what happened here.

[Dizzy 803]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

I would guess he was/is legit... used MFL for a couple years... got bad advice that someone could do it better, and by flipping the bill he would own the IP... and his business went bust.

Not surprising if he has ties to Pittsburgh. A lot of the "locals" serve their missions there after school.

[17seconds 556]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

If he were into drugs or gambling he'd probably also just disappear when the season ends. The fact he made this statement tells me he intends to do what is in the statement. Why make any statement if you are going to run? Just fly to Ecuador and never say a word.

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

Is it possible that the web development company has filed a lawsuit for the remaining $430,000, Phenoms has refused to pay since it is still not complete, and that the remaining assets of the Phenoms are frozen?

I have no idea if this is legally possible. I just re-read Mike's email and that seems plausible. Say he brought in $900,000 and uses the $200,000 as the initial payment, placing the rest to be used as prize money in an account for holding. If he is then forced to pay $430,000, Phenoms would have to declare insolvency.

It would make more sense than already having paid all $630,000 knowing it would ruin the business. It also jives with the part about "the business would have remained profitable for years" if the web league software had been completed on budget and in time.

Personally, I am not buying Mike stole the money in a careful plan until I see more evidence. But he may have made some bad business decisions and entered into an agreement that allowed the developer to have a legal right to the remaining assets of the company.

I doubt the legal process could move that fast unless he just ignored a lawsuit. But there is no way you pay for software you can't use before you pay out the players.

[timschochet 33,375]

Maybe he's sitting on money, maybe he's not. I rather doubt it, because my hunch is if he were not in deep trouble the league would be continuing as normal.

But it doesn't matter one way or the other. Whether this guy has made out or not, the fact remains that he took money that was entrusted to him that didn't belong to him. That is theft. I wish there was a way to prosecute him.

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

If he were into drugs or gambling he'd probably also just disappear when the season ends. The fact he made this statement tells me he intends to do what is in the statement. Why make any statement if you are going to run? Just fly to Ecuador and never say a word.

He probably does not have the means to disappear or live in Ecuador.

[Peyton Marino 4,778]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

If he were into drugs or gambling he'd probably also just disappear when the season ends. The fact he made this statement tells me he intends to do what is in the statement. Why make any statement if you are going to run? Just fly to Ecuador and never say a word.

He probably does not have the means to disappear or live in Ecuador.

Yea, or maybe he just doesn't want to live in Ecuador. Maybe he likes it here and thinks he can get away with the "I lost the money" angle.

There are a ton of possibilities here. Fantasy football has natural ties to gambling. I don't think the gambling/substance abuse angle is out of the realm of possibility by any means.

[fridayfrenzy 32]

I have a hard time believing the website development story. He collected all this money in the summer and he knew he had his huge outlay of cash coming in December. Whether the website finished in time or not, he still has the same cash issue. What does a finished website do if you still can't pay the prize money out?

There is no scenario I can see that this is just bad luck. This was a conscious decision to commit fraud. If the website costs did go over budget, then say you can't pay and tell them to stop until you have more funds. Any idiot can see that using the prize money for operational expenses doesn't actually provide you any extra time.

If it was just bad business and truly sorry, he would not try to disappear.

Edited December 15, 2014 by fridayfrenzy

[BassNBrew 10,644]

http://assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/valuationInfo.cfm?Parcel_id=22182040110000&nbhd=661&PA=

County Tax records

Looks like he's bad at real estate too.

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

In the end you have to remember that he will be most at risk with the IRS. Lucky for him he doesn't not have to file the business return for a least 6 months and it is simple to get an additional 6 month extension. He has to prove to them that all the money was not income. I don't have money with his site but I have over 10K in MastersFF. If they did this to me I would notify the IRS.

[Dizzy 803]

Just curious, now that the State of Utah knows (or will quickly find out) that this guy is running a gambling operation out of his condo, in a state where gambling is illegal... could that further muddy the waters?

[Raider Nation 5,597]

I have customers who owe me $5k, $10k at any given time. I'm going to bill them $600k next cycle just to see if they notice.

[IC FBGCav 5,668]

I found a lot of personal information about Mike on the net and includes friends and family members names, so he is real and that is his real name.

[East Coast Bias 1,274]

Has anyone searched the Deep Web?

[Craig_MiamiFL 2,502]

You can bet your bottom dollar he's sitting on a pile of money that doesn't belong to him. If someone doesn't take this jerk to court they're all crazy for letting him get a away with it. At the very least he owes the entry fee back.

You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.

I would guess he is into drugs, alcohol and/or gambling pretty bad. If he had a pile of money he would just vanish and not say anything.

If he were into drugs or gambling he'd probably also just disappear when the season ends. The fact he made this statement tells me he intends to do what is in the statement. Why make any statement if you are going to run? Just fly to Ecuador and never say a word.

I can't think of a time where one of these companies stole money (their have been a few the last few years) didn't make an initial statement to indicate 'they're doing everything they can'.

This story sounds eerily familiar (spent on software/operating expenses & are now 'talking to buyers') to one of the recent companies to run away with the cash. Don't recall which one it was & too lazy right now to go back in forum history to check -- AFFL/Fantasy Jungle/etc...

You're doing the right thing here and being proactive. (And not sitting back based on Phenom's initial statement)

Edited December 15, 2014 by Craig_MiamiFL

[Craig_MiamiFL 2,502]

He logged in to Timleeg to adjust his lineup an hour ago. Love that he is still setting his lineup even though there isn't money for payouts. That's dedication.

Fighting to advance to the finals.

Jesus. Glad he's setting lineup and checking in throughout the day

Good luck in the finals

Edited December 15, 2014 by Craig_MiamiFL

[Jim Hill 0]

I don't think Mike Z. was playing some sort of long con. Bad decisions, desperation and more bad decisions yes.

On another note about the new software project. I wonder if he thought it out fully because wouldn't this project require more than software? It would need to be hosted and would require significant bandwidth to be effective......so there would be more costs than SW development. There would be hardware or paying to host the software and then all the bandwidth/usage costs that Phenoms does not have now.

I have known more than a few well meaning entrepeneurs who did not fully think out implementation of their idea.

[Raider Nation 5,597]

I don't think Mike Z. was playing some sort of long con. Bad decisions, desperation and more bad decisions yes.

On another note about the new software project. I wonder if he thought it out fully because wouldn't this project require more than software? It would need to be hosted and would require significant bandwidth to be effective......so there would be more costs than SW development. There would be hardware or paying to host the software and then all the bandwidth/usage costs that Phenoms does not have now.

I have known more than a few well meaning entrepeneurs who did not fully think out implementation of their idea.

Hi Mike.

[Jim Hill 0]

Uh Raiders Nation sorry to disappoint but I am not Mike Z. I am in 4 Phenoms leagues and I was owed $1400 in winnings from ANT sports before Steve disappeared. Not sure what about my post would make you think I was Mike.

[BigOlBar 0]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

[joffer 12,265]

[BassNBrew 10,644]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

Co-mingling deposits and operating accounts in my industry is illegal.

Hopefully someone ends up screwing this crook.

[Dizzy 803]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

You have first hand knowledge of this? If so, I would refer to this message as "Exhibit A"

[Bri 1,900]

Doesn't a person create an LLC so that the courts/anyone suing may be able to squeeze out every penny of the company via bankruptcy, but they cannot touch his personal assets?

It seems to me that the value of this software/website is extremely significant and this and the mailing list are the only things of value.

One solution might be to ask this lawyer involved to contact Mike and ask him to see all web design contracts and information. It does sound like he paid for a product he didn't get and maybe a lawyer can make sure he gets it. THEN you guys form a group called FormerPhenoms. He transfers the company assets to you guys and you sell this FINISHED software for a large sum of money. This you split.

The Web Design company seems to have been paid a ton of $. If Mike's business folds, they have the code to re-sell it and make a ton more. Essentially (if all this is true) they took your money from Mike and then are going to sell it and make even more.

Much of the solutions here are asking for $ that he clearly doesn't have

My solution above, I would imagine some FF person would be very intrigued in buying software PLUS a following. You would have something marketable.

[Dapitbull 0]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

I hope you're right. I really do. I, unlike others, always liked Mike but this is inexcusable. Money is secondary to the time I put into my teams. I Admit it, I'm a full fledged fantasy geek but it is something I enjoy. But the end payoff is an important aspect and it seems like it's gone.

[Dizzy 803]

...I would imagine some FF person would be very intrigued in buying software PLUS a following. You would have something marketable.

Maybe, if it offers something different/better. From what I've seen this was just a middle man using MFL.com and selling it as a service? Maybe I'm way off in that assessment... I'm just going by the links to his leagues posted earlier.

IMO there are plenty of benchmark league management softwares out there already. Gotta have a better mousetrap to pull all those guys with you. Huge gamble IMO.

[Bri 1,900]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

[Hooper31 1,166]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

=

[Bri 1,900]

...I would imagine some FF person would be very intrigued in buying software PLUS a following. You would have something marketable.

Maybe, if it offers something different/better. From what I've seen this was just a middle man using MFL.com and selling it as a service? Maybe I'm way off in that assessment... I'm just going by the links to his leagues posted earlier.

IMO there are plenty of benchmark league management softwares out there already. Gotta have a better mousetrap to pull all those guys with you. Huge gamble IMO.

I've been an FF Webdesigner for nearly 20 years. I can absolutely make a site to run an FF league if given the time to do so. I could make a board like this, no prob.

The issue is people actually using the product.

I've seen a zillion boards that stink and several ff products that didn't last (I still know some guys that prefer PC based ones from the old days) because they have no one frequenting them.

The users are a significant value

MFL first had their API available and there was another FF PHP code people could use as well like PHPFootball or PhantasyFootball or somesuch. MFL and this site with the PHP code, had forums where people could discuss coding ideas and building a better mousetrap. (I imagine this is exactly where the MFL phone app designers hang out)

Wanting to go away from MFL and not being able to do it, doesn't mean anything except MFL is such a staple of the FF world. Over the years, people from this very board have started their own sites and their own boards as well, using this as an example of what they'd want to improve upon.

Sideline league forums or somesuch they were called....I really used to enjoy reading other ideas about how to manipulate the data from MFL and present it to the people in the league. There were plenty of noobs, but mixed in were some real talented guys. I can't imagine anyone creating a decent FF site and not going there to see some ideas. It's simply where creative FF coding types go.

ETA Sorry didn't get to my point- so Mike probably would have had to use MFL until he built that better mousetrap and used MFL's boards to get good coding ideas to produce such a mousetrap

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bri

[SacramentoBob 4,898]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

He deserves an FFA lynching.

[cstu 6,086]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

Madoff was a helluva guy until everyone found out he stole their money.

[17seconds 556]

From what I've seen this was just a middle man using MFL.com and selling it as a service? Maybe I'm way off in that assessment... I'm just going by the links to his leagues posted earlier.

No, that's pretty much what he was doing. The value of his site was the customer base and league integrity. All of us playing knew it was just a guy coordinating leagues. His reputation was everything.

Edited December 15, 2014 by 17seconds