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Josh Gordon in 2015 (1 Viewer)

ghostguy123 said:
Wait, someone said it is better to be a fall down drunk than it is to knowingly break a rule and drink a few beers? :thumbup:
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Shocking that you missed the point so badly :rolleyes:

ghostguy123 said:
bjabrad said:
I've stopped caring if he comes back to the NFL and at this point I just want to party with him.
Click to expand...
Yeah he parties so hard that he teters on the legal driving limit and doesnt even smoke enough weed to give an entire urine sample a postive test.

What is that, 3 miller lites and the smallest toke ever? he parties HARD
Click to expand...
There you go again. I shouldn't bother, but let me try something different...

Right now, Gordon has the ability to play football at the highest level. He's demonstrated record-breaking ability on the field. He is currently not allowed to play, however, because he's been caught breaking the rules too many times. Argue about whether those rules are dumb if you want but they are the rules. One day, Gordon's ability to play at the highest level will be gone. The window will close and the game will pass him by. Happens to all players. When he looks back on what could have been, do you think he'll have any regrets that he pissed-away an awesome opportunity (a very select few have) for some weed and a couple beers? Can you not see that his test results indicating small amounts of this or that (which you keep trying to use in his defense) proves even more emphatically that the guy is an A1 moron who simply refuses to adhere to the rules? He's ####ed-up several times. He knows he cant have ANY right now. Yet, he consciously chooses to have some anyway. And people like you defend him because its just a little that he has. Seriously? Is 3 Miller Lites worth losing a season in the NFL at any time in one's career let alone when (arguably) at their physical peak? Is taking a couple hits or hanging out with guys who are smoking worth the lost time on the field and the lucrative contracts and endorsements he could probably have? The guy is committing career suicide as deliberately as anyone we've seen and you say he's just unlucky? :loco:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/would_jimmy_haslam_hire_peyton.html

@vandoosky

@MaryKayCabot will the Browns welcome josh Gordon back?

10:37 AM - 21 Nov 2015· Fairview Park, OH, United States
Hey @vandoosky: I get the impression that some in the current regime have lost their patience with Gordon and wouldn't trust him enough to keep him on the roster. I think others would be willing to give him a chance. Some of it will depend on who's still around when Gordon is eligible for reinstatement. I know Gordon's working hard to come back. It remains to be seen if he'll adhere to his treatment program until he's eligible for reinstatement after the Super Bowl. If he makes it back, the Browns must decide if they whether they want to forge ahead, or possibly try to trade him. I think teams would be willing to take a chance on him given his exceptional talent.
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Who's up to speed on his punishment? When can he come back and what are the conditions? Will he still be in the NFL substance abuse program? What is the punishment for a next violation? How often would the NFL test for violations?

 
whiskey7 said:
ghostguy123 said:
Wait, someone said it is better to be a fall down drunk than it is to knowingly break a rule and drink a few beers? :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Shocking that you missed the point so badly :rolleyes:

ghostguy123 said:
bjabrad said:
I've stopped caring if he comes back to the NFL and at this point I just want to party with him.
Click to expand...
Yeah he parties so hard that he teters on the legal driving limit and doesnt even smoke enough weed to give an entire urine sample a postive test.

What is that, 3 miller lites and the smallest toke ever? he parties HARD
Click to expand...
There you go again. I shouldn't bother, but let me try something different...

Right now, Gordon has the ability to play football at the highest level. He's demonstrated record-breaking ability on the field. He is currently not allowed to play, however, because he's been caught breaking the rules too many times. Argue about whether those rules are dumb if you want but they are the rules. One day, Gordon's ability to play at the highest level will be gone. The window will close and the game will pass him by. Happens to all players. When he looks back on what could have been, do you think he'll have any regrets that he pissed-away an awesome opportunity (a very select few have) for some weed and a couple beers? Can you not see that his test results indicating small amounts of this or that (which you keep trying to use in his defense) proves even more emphatically that the guy is an A1 moron who simply refuses to adhere to the rules? He's ####ed-up several times. He knows he cant have ANY right now. Yet, he consciously chooses to have some anyway. And people like you defend him because its just a little that he has. Seriously? Is 3 Miller Lites worth losing a season in the NFL at any time in one's career let alone when (arguably) at their physical peak? Is taking a couple hits or hanging out with guys who are smoking worth the lost time on the field and the lucrative contracts and endorsements he could probably have? The guy is committing career suicide as deliberately as anyone we've seen and you say he's just unlucky? :loco:
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Great waste of time there. Has nothing to do with what I said about him partying hard.........or NOT partying hard that is. None of that ramble addressed that at all. Like, not even a little. Ouch for you

 
Do not try to reason with GhostGuy. You're wasting your time.

Just put him on ignore and get more enjoyment from these forums.

 
Are people honestly worried about him not getting reinstated when the time comes and he's remained clean?

Will be 2+yrs pissing clean for any drug and over a year pissing clean for any alcohol. No arrests. and keeping himself in tip top shape physically, and still "playing football".

Oh... And Rosenhaus.

I dont see the worry at all, if he's remained clean. Brady and Hardy and AP are all having the times of their lives right now...

 
Im worried that a meteor made out of booze and weed will fall from the sky the day of reinstatement. A huge concentration of THC dust will block out the sun and fill the world's lungs with the purest weed ever known to man causing a positive test. I stay up late thinking about this and writing page long dissertations about Josh Gordon and why he wont succeed.

 
georg013 said:
Im worried that a meteor made out of booze and weed will fall from the sky the day of reinstatement. A huge concentration of THC dust will block out the sun and fill the world's lungs with the purest weed ever known to man causing a positive test. I stay up late thinking about this and writing page long dissertations about Josh Gordon and why he wont succeed.
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Ghostguy already posted the booze/weed meteor excuse a couple of pages ago.

 
So what happens if he is caught again, hypothetically speaking? Out of the league forever? I think the 1 year ban was the 2nd to last straw iirc.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Are people honestly worried about him not getting reinstated when the time comes and he's remained clean?

Will be 2+yrs pissing clean for any drug and over a year pissing clean for any alcohol. No arrests. and keeping himself in tip top shape physically, and still "playing football".

Oh... And Rosenhaus.

I dont see the worry at all, if he's remained clean. Brady and Hardy and AP are all having the times of their lives right now...
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Truly amazing league isn't it? I'm not sure who is worse and more hypocritical between the NFL and the NCAA.

 
yeah that's what I thought ... I remember from all that mayhem going on during the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement with the owners. I love the guy,, was in on his breakout and rode him to many victories as my WR3 where he gave me elite WR performances (a huge advantage), but even I have to take a step back in dynasty and say, "Hey one more wrong move and this guy is dead to the NFL." I think when he still had one strike left it was an easier dynasty bet, but now I think if you go after him you should not be paying what his talent is worth, much much less. If he is on your team he is worth a rooster spot for sure. In redraft I would place his value at WR3/WR4, similar to how I valued Arian Foster this year in his RB class. Elite when he played, but how many games are you going to get from his soft tissue injury pileup mess. He has top6 WR potential, but the other WR1s don't have the same risk, obviously, and given his (for whatever reason) past he has proven one thing he is good at is failing these tests. Either he isn't smart enough to get around them or isn't able to stay away from weed/substance abuses.

Regardless he will give you an advantage for as many games as he plays, but the over/under on games played is not very high. He has had many chances to turn it around.

 
Well from his tests we know he was playing "high" so that's probably why. Supplemental picks are supplemental for a reason. But speaking dynasty, If he stays clean, and if he leaves the browns by 2017 and got picked up by a "good team" I have no doubt he would play well. Those are two monumental ifs.

 
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
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It's tough for someone like him to be basically out of the loop for 10 weeks then be relied on to carry the team. When things got tough early on, mentally, he shut it down, as he has a tendency to do - on and off the field.

 
MAC_32 said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
It's tough for someone like him to be basically out of the loop for 10 weeks then be relied on to carry the team. When things got tough early on, mentally, he shut it down, as he has a tendency to do - on and off the field.
Click to expand...
That's very Randy Moss of him. I guess maybe he does need to get out of Cleveland then. Too bad. They could use him in the long term, and we could all use Cleveland being relevant again. It's been too long.

 
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.

And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.

And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.

 
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.

  1. I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  2. You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  3. McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  4. RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  5. WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
 
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."

 
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."
Click to expand...
Yes the Norv Turner offense helped and I'm not expecting him to automatically resume his #1 WR spot in FF. But I don't see how he doesn't easily slide into the top 10 with a legitimate shot at the top 5 spots. I think you have to throw out the 2014 stats completely. He was out for 10 weeks - not just games, but also not able to be at or around the facility and admitted that the he did not know the playbook b/c it had changed significantly since he was there in preseason.

Next season is a long way away, and as of now I'd still rather have Hopkins, JJ, Brown, OBJ and the likes ahead of him, but if it comes down to choosing between him and players like A. Robinson, Green, Evans, Cobb - I'll roll the dice with Gordon

I don't get the Fitzgerald reference. Can you explain what you mean.

 
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."
Click to expand...
Yes the Norv Turner offense helped and I'm not expecting him to automatically resume his #1 WR spot in FF. But I don't see how he doesn't easily slide into the top 10 with a legitimate shot at the top 5 spots. I think you have to throw out the 2014 stats completely. He was out for 10 weeks - not just games, but also not able to be at or around the facility and admitted that the he did not know the playbook b/c it had changed significantly since he was there in preseason.

Next season is a long way away, and as of now I'd still rather have Hopkins, JJ, Brown, OBJ and the likes ahead of him, but if it comes down to choosing between him and players like A. Robinson, Green, Evans, Cobb - I'll roll the dice with Gordon

I don't get the Fitzgerald reference. Can you explain what you mean.
Click to expand...
I'm a Gordon supporter but taking him over those guys you mentioned is a little nuts. While top 10 is reasonable, too much risk that something goes wrong.

 
Tool said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."
Click to expand...
Yes the Norv Turner offense helped and I'm not expecting him to automatically resume his #1 WR spot in FF. But I don't see how he doesn't easily slide into the top 10 with a legitimate shot at the top 5 spots. I think you have to throw out the 2014 stats completely. He was out for 10 weeks - not just games, but also not able to be at or around the facility and admitted that the he did not know the playbook b/c it had changed significantly since he was there in preseason.

Next season is a long way away, and as of now I'd still rather have Hopkins, JJ, Brown, OBJ and the likes ahead of him, but if it comes down to choosing between him and players like A. Robinson, Green, Evans, Cobb - I'll roll the dice with Gordon

I don't get the Fitzgerald reference. Can you explain what you mean.
Click to expand...
I'm a Gordon supporter but taking him over those guys you mentioned is a little nuts. While top 10 is reasonable, too much risk that something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
what risk? Travis Benjamin is ranked 15th right now (std scoring). You think Gordon will do worse? How do the 4 players I listed have that much separation over him?

 
I think people just want to see that the guy can stay on the field. I am ok with that. However, once this kid starts balling out, there will be plenty of I told you sos to go around. But you cant fault anyone for being skeptical.

 
georg013 said:
I think people just want to see that the guy can stay on the field. I am ok with that. However, once this kid starts balling out, there will be plenty of I told you sos to go around. But you cant fault anyone for being skeptical.
Click to expand...
true. so where would you guess for him next year in redraft? 5-10 spot? 10-15 spot? lower? My position is that he is in that no man's land of 8-12. That's why I was lumping him in with Cobb, Evans, & A. Robinson. All solid guys, but I'd rather gamble on Gordon. I can't see his skill set or his team situation holding him back. I'm willing to gamble on his off-field issues being behind him

 
chad in Indy said:
georg013 said:
I think people just want to see that the guy can stay on the field. I am ok with that. However, once this kid starts balling out, there will be plenty of I told you sos to go around. But you cant fault anyone for being skeptical.
Click to expand...
true. so where would you guess for him next year in redraft? 5-10 spot? 10-15 spot? lower? My position is that he is in that no man's land of 8-12. That's why I was lumping him in with Cobb, Evans, & A. Robinson. All solid guys, but I'd rather gamble on Gordon. I can't see his skill set or his team situation holding him back. I'm willing to gamble on his off-field issues being behind him
Click to expand...
His ADP will shoot up once people know where he will be playing (Cleveland? Somewhere else?) and he is catching passes in training camp. Once those preseason games roll around I expect him to end up somewhere in the middle of the second round. I think 15-18 sounds about right. The smart owners will play off the fears of the chicken little types and get him for good value. But they wont risk losing a chance to grab him by letting him slide to the 3rd.
 
If you were going to buy you needed to do it a while ago. Between now and camp he is over priced. If he makes it to camp then it may be worth it to buy high.

 
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."
Click to expand...
Yes the Norv Turner offense helped and I'm not expecting him to automatically resume his #1 WR spot in FF. But I don't see how he doesn't easily slide into the top 10 with a legitimate shot at the top 5 spots. I think you have to throw out the 2014 stats completely. He was out for 10 weeks - not just games, but also not able to be at or around the facility and admitted that the he did not know the playbook b/c it had changed significantly since he was there in preseason.

Next season is a long way away, and as of now I'd still rather have Hopkins, JJ, Brown, OBJ and the likes ahead of him, but if it comes down to choosing between him and players like A. Robinson, Green, Evans, Cobb - I'll roll the dice with Gordon

I don't get the Fitzgerald reference. Can you explain what you mean.
Click to expand...
Fitzgerald is one of the best WRs in the game. He wasn't worth a a roster spot last year. Circumstances can have a huge affect on WRs.

 
chad in Indy said:
Tool said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
chad in Indy said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sebowski said:
I'm more concerned that he only had one good game out of five after coming back last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a ton of people seem to be overlooking this. His QB and offensive system are completely different from what they were in 2013 when he was tearing it up. Obviously he's got elite physical talent, but that doesn't always translate into elite statistical production. Pricing in the assumption that he steps right in and produces at 2013 levels is likely a mistake. It's very possible if not likely that even an elite WR is looking at something like 1100-1200 / 6-8 given the situation.And that's without even touching the whole risk of suspension thing.
Click to expand...
Speculation at this point, but with a decent option lining up opposite him in Travis Benjamin, a good pass catching TE in Barnidge, and Duke Johnson in the backfield, he will finally not be the only weapon in Cleveland. Hopefullly, McCown remains there to provide some stability to the QB position.
Click to expand...
Guess we just disagree, because from where I'm sitting, Cleveland probably has the worst skill position talent in the entire league. McCown, Barnridge, etc are journeyman backups putting up decent FF stats because the cupboard is bare there, but they're not even seeing the field on a decent NFL offense.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't meaning to compare Cleveland to other teams. Rather was speculating the 2016 Browns v. the 2013 Browns.
  • I think Benjamin is a better #2 than Greg Little. He can stretch the defense and keeps the safety honest. Little isn't even in the NFL now.
  • You can say Jordan Cameron is better than Barnidge, but Cameron really hasn't done squat since. Maybe Cameron was just a product of being in a TE friendly system with Gordon demanding all the attention of the defense. Or maybe, Barnidge just needed a shot. How long does he have to put up numbers before he's considered a "good" TE? not calling him elite, but his numbers are quite good. Here is a good stats link for TE efficiency
  • McCown v. Hoyer. Prob the edge goes to Hoyer.
  • RB - well, T-rich isn't even in the league. Barring injury, the combo of Duke and Crow is better
  • WRs just need an adequate offense and targets to put up strong numbers. I'll even say it hinges more on a good O-line than anything. Give a QB enough time and it can cover up a lot of shortcomings.
Click to expand...
No matter what anyone thinks about the rest of the skill position talent, in 2013 the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts in a vertical Norv Turner offense. That was a perfect storm that just isn't very likely to happen again. And actually, we saw how unlikely a repeat was in the games Gordon played last year. Re: WRs and what they need to produce stud FF numbers, Larry Fitzgerald says "hi."
Click to expand...
Yes the Norv Turner offense helped and I'm not expecting him to automatically resume his #1 WR spot in FF. But I don't see how he doesn't easily slide into the top 10 with a legitimate shot at the top 5 spots. I think you have to throw out the 2014 stats completely. He was out for 10 weeks - not just games, but also not able to be at or around the facility and admitted that the he did not know the playbook b/c it had changed significantly since he was there in preseason.

Next season is a long way away, and as of now I'd still rather have Hopkins, JJ, Brown, OBJ and the likes ahead of him, but if it comes down to choosing between him and players like A. Robinson, Green, Evans, Cobb - I'll roll the dice with Gordon

I don't get the Fitzgerald reference. Can you explain what you mean.
Click to expand...
I'm a Gordon supporter but taking him over those guys you mentioned is a little nuts. While top 10 is reasonable, too much risk that something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
what risk? Travis Benjamin is ranked 15th right now (std scoring). You think Gordon will do worse? How do the 4 players I listed have that much separation over him?
Click to expand...
The risk that he gets caught w/ a beer or bottle of Nyquil and gets suspended again for who knows how long. And you didn't mention Travis Benjamin in your other post so not sure why you're bringing him up now.

 
Travis Benjamin is a good point,

To think Gordon would do worse then him, ya I highly doubt that..

Barring he plays and all that, I'd rank Gordon "right around that 12spot" with upside for next year..

 
mnmplayer said:
So you guys think he comes back in 2016 for the Browns with "Johnny Football" at QB? I have always been "high" on this guy, so I want to hear what you guys feel are his chances and where you would draft him if he is able to play for the Browns next year. I admit have pretty much ignored his situation thus far this year but am starting to think about next year a little bit now. What are his chances if he stays clean and what happens if he is caught again?
Click to expand...
... as I was saying, so you think he comes back with the Browns with Josh McCown at QB? That was fast a super fast demotion. Looks like Browns are in line for a new QB in 2016.

 
Tool said:
chad in Indy said:
Tool said:
I'm a Gordon supporter but taking him over those guys you mentioned is a little nuts. While top 10 is reasonable, too much risk that something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
what risk? Travis Benjamin is ranked 15th right now (std scoring). You think Gordon will do worse? How do the 4 players I listed have that much separation over him?
Click to expand...
The risk that he gets caught w/ a beer or bottle of Nyquil and gets suspended again for who knows how long. And you didn't mention Travis Benjamin in your other post so not sure why you're bringing him up now.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I did not correlate your bolded quote above with off-field risk. I thought you were meaning the risk as it related to the Browns in 2016, and that is why I used Benjamin as a reference to his floor.

So maybe a better question is what are the terms of his reinstatement? I assume when reinstated, he will not be under any probationary conditions such as not being able to drink. If he is, then yes, that is a harder risk to justify. If the only risk is to not fail a piss test, DUI, etc, then I would hedge that he will not make that mistake.

 
Was just offered what will likely be the #13 and #22 rookie picks in the 2016 draft. It was tough, but I turned it down.

 
Picked him up in a keeper league just b4 Monday night game. Dropped rishard Mathews after his in news. I know a couple guys were planning to pick him up end of year after the groans came.

 
Yeah, I picked him up for the minimum in a salary cap league a couple weeks ago. I'll be able to keep him for 2016 at $2 (out of a $400 cap). If he ####s the bed, I just add one more cheap flyer at the end of the auction.

Added bonus: We can put suspended players on IR and not tie up a roster spot. :winning:

 
georg013 said:
MAC_32 said:
kcfflguy said:
For some reason I'm getting the feeling of a redemption story here with this kid
Click to expand...
If he leaves Cleveland, maybe.
Click to expand...
The Cleveland offense is sneaky explosive. Especially with Crappy Crow being force fed the ball resulting in no running game. I like him wherever he ends up. Getting very excited about my "first round pick" next year!!!
Click to expand...
A different type of explosive comes to mind.
 
The 'upside' with Gordon comes if you get him cheap, and he plays like a 2nd rounder. Not if you draft him in the 2nd round.

You're not a shark if you pay a premium for a major character risk. You're a sucker.

By the way, Chicken Little was wrong. The sky never fell. The sky has fallen repeatedly with Gordon. So that comparison simply doesn't work.

If you can get him for a song in dynasty, great. Only costs a roster spot? Great. You're making plans to draft him over young WR that don't have multiple suspensions on their record, or play for the Browns? That's not being slick, that's being silly.

 
massraider said:
The 'upside' with Gordon comes if you get him cheap, and he plays like a 2nd rounder. Not if you draft him in the 2nd round.

You're not a shark if you pay a premium for a major character risk. You're a sucker.

By the way, Chicken Little was wrong. The sky never fell. The sky has fallen repeatedly with Gordon. So that comparison simply doesn't work.

If you can get him for a song in dynasty, great. Only costs a roster spot? Great. You're making plans to draft him over young WR that don't have multiple suspensions on their record, or play for the Browns? That's not being slick, that's being silly.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

We had close to this exact same discussion about two years ago with Gordon. And again after his first failed test in 2014. And again after the DUI. And now again after another year-long suspension for a failed test. But THIS TIME Josh Gordon "gets it" and has grown up. Riiiiiiiight...

 
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