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It's been a great run Peyton - now enjoy retirement.. (1 Viewer)

TwinTurbo said:
humpback said:
Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.
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He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.
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The only player I'm comparing him to is his younger self.

 
shoecrew22 said:
saintfool said:
Manning throws a lot of what look like knuckleballs these days.
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Did you watch the game?! Those were some of the prettiest spirals I've seen come from Peyton....
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Yep and yet his completion ratio was barely over 50%.. He was throwing tights spirals all night long
 
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Seekay said:
TwinTurbo said:
humpback said:
Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.
Click to expand...
He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.
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Problem is Flacco, Stafford, Cutler are not preaeason top 10 QBs If you bought into Peyton more then likely you drafted him at a spot where you wont see return in value.
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Peyton's ADP was QB5-6. He has one of the best WR tandems in the league, if not the best. He plays on a good team. I see no reason why he can't still finish as QB5.

 
TwinTurbo said:
Seekay said:
TwinTurbo said:
humpback said:
Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.
Click to expand...
He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.
Click to expand...
Problem is Flacco, Stafford, Cutler are not preaeason top 10 QBs If you bought into Peyton more then likely you drafted him at a spot where you wont see return in value.
Click to expand...
Peyton's ADP was QB5-6. He has one of the best WR tandems in the league, if not the best. He plays on a good team. I see no reason why he can't still finish as QB5.
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The end is near for Peyton, probably after this year, but I see lots of reasons why he won't finish top 5. I think he will be closer to 10 than 5. Still good, but not elite anymore.

 
TwinTurbo said:
Seekay said:
TwinTurbo said:
humpback said:
Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.
Click to expand...
He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.
Click to expand...
Problem is Flacco, Stafford, Cutler are not preaeason top 10 QBs If you bought into Peyton more then likely you drafted him at a spot where you wont see return in value.
Click to expand...
Peyton's ADP was QB5-6. He has one of the best WR tandems in the league, if not the best. He plays on a good team. I see no reason why he can't still finish as QB5.
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According to the FBG player page his ADP was 3, although I thought he went 4 in most drafts.

 
Manning showed how brilliant of a quarterback he is on Thursday night. People are making such a huge deal that a 39 year-old QB doesn't have the arm strength he once did. Well, Jameis Winston has a rifle. As did Jamarcus Russell. There are more important things. Is Manning as good as he was 5 years ago? Of course not. Is he still better than 75% of the QBs playing? Without a doubt.

 
Seekay said:
Dizzy said:
If Chiefs #30 didn't have hands of stone... may have been ugly (and these were EZ pics too... right in his hands). Another guy dropped one as well.
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Stop making sense. Peyton fans only remember the TDs and the stats. Brady completed what 16 passes in a row last Thursday. Peyton was struggling to throw a ten yard pass at times. The Pass to Caldwell in the red zone was throw at his feet. How many Broncos games from early 2014 you recall where there were 4-5 passes that could of easily been INTs thrown by Peyton. Next week he might not be so lucky.,
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And then there was that play earlier in the game where if only CJ wasn't tackled he would have gone for 75 yards and a TD and then that play where DT got tackled and if that hadn't happened, he would have gone 35 yards for the TD--see how that game works?

is Manning what he was prior to the surgeries? No way, but he is still effective and this team is 2-0 against two teams that have been identified by so called experts as teams that could be in the AFC Championship game, The Broncos only have 4 (maybe 5) really tough games ahead--they get GB at home, then have to travel to the Colts (which could be the hardest challenge) and then a few weeks later they get NE in Denver, but have to travel to play Pittsburgh towards the end of the year. I mean, they still get the Raiders twice--Cleveland, they also get Minnesota and the Bengals in Denver. Even assuming they split that 4 tough game stretch and are 2-2, throw in a split with SD and then give them one more loss to whoever--this team can easily be 12-4, which should be more than enough to win the West.

 
Seekay said:
Dizzy said:
If Chiefs #30 didn't have hands of stone... may have been ugly (and these were EZ pics too... right in his hands). Another guy dropped one as well.
Click to expand...
Stop making sense. Peyton fans only remember the TDs and the stats. Brady completed what 16 passes in a row last Thursday. Peyton was struggling to throw a ten yard pass at times. The Pass to Caldwell in the red zone was throw at his feet. How many Broncos games from early 2014 you recall where there were 4-5 passes that could of easily been INTs thrown by Peyton. Next week he might not be so lucky.,
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How did old Lady Arm do against the Lions last night? Probably nowhere near as good as rocket arm Stafford.

 
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.

 
moleculo said:
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.
Click to expand...
I'd go the opposite way and say that everyone Manning has ever worked for figured it out and Kubiak is the first one who didn't get it. Of course Manning is better in the shotgun. He's done it his entire career. He's an offensive genius who's been an all-time top five quarterback without an ounce of athleticism. He doesn't like having to drop back before throwing, thus taking his eyes off the defense. Plus, it takes him two seconds to back up and get to where he could have been 10 seconds before the snap.

Does that hurt the running game? Of course. To a degree. But I seem to recall a lot of great games by Denver backs the last few years. As I do the old Colts teams. I also recall Marshall Faulk being fairly successful with Kurt Warner working from the shotgun. THAT'S what Kubiak needs to figure out. Trying to teach an old dog a new trick was one of the dumbest coaching moves in league history.

 
JuniorNB said:
moleculo said:
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.
Click to expand...
I'd go the opposite way and say that everyone Manning has ever worked for figured it out and Kubiak is the first one who didn't get it. Of course Manning is better in the shotgun. He's done it his entire career. He's an offensive genius who's been an all-time top five quarterback without an ounce of athleticism. He doesn't like having to drop back before throwing, thus taking his eyes off the defense. Plus, it takes him two seconds to back up and get to where he could have been 10 seconds before the snap.Does that hurt the running game? Of course. To a degree. But I seem to recall a lot of great games by Denver backs the last few years. As I do the old Colts teams. I also recall Marshall Faulk being fairly successful with Kurt Warner working from the shotgun. THAT'S what Kubiak needs to figure out. Trying to teach an old dog a new trick was one of the dumbest coaching moves in league history.
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Exactly.

 
Does anyone have any actual numbers on Manning under center vs. playing in the shotgun, beyond just this year? I seem to recall him playing under center a lot in the first half of his Indy career and he was still really, really good those years. I mean, wasn't the go-to running play for YEARS in Indy the stretch run play to Edge? That only works when you're mostly under center.

 
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JuniorNB said:
moleculo said:
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.
Click to expand...
I'd go the opposite way and say that everyone Manning has ever worked for figured it out and Kubiak is the first one who didn't get it. Of course Manning is better in the shotgun. He's done it his entire career. He's an offensive genius who's been an all-time top five quarterback without an ounce of athleticism. He doesn't like having to drop back before throwing, thus taking his eyes off the defense. Plus, it takes him two seconds to back up and get to where he could have been 10 seconds before the snap.

Does that hurt the running game? Of course. To a degree. But I seem to recall a lot of great games by Denver backs the last few years. As I do the old Colts teams. I also recall Marshall Faulk being fairly successful with Kurt Warner working from the shotgun. THAT'S what Kubiak needs to figure out. Trying to teach an old dog a new trick was one of the dumbest coaching moves in league history.
Click to expand...
disagree strongly. Mannings playoff failures are well documented. I'm proposing that these have been, in a large part, because his teams are one dimensional.

"Lots of great games by Denver backs the last few years" - do you mean late last season, when the only way the Broncos could manufacture any offense was by putting 6 or 7 OL on the field? Do you mean that game in NE when moreno had a huge game, because the Patriots sold out to stop Manning and eventually won in OT? The games that stick in my craw were the 2012 Ravens playoff game - 125 rushing yards on 41 attempts (3.05 YPA), and the 2013 SB ( 27 rushing yards on 14 attempts (1.93 YPA).

"the old Colt teams" - the last time the Colts had an NFL average running game w/ 2005...these are teams that routinely won 12 or more games, and in theory, the threat of Manning/Harrison/Wayne should have really opened up running lanes, yet they were never even NFL average in terms of yards per carry.

"Marshall Faulk and the Rams" - in 1999-2001, the Rams were the #1 or #2 running team in the league (y/a). Not sure how often Warner was in shotgun, but clearly they were effective. Manning's teams have never been that effective.

Kubiak/Elway know that the Manning shotgun offense is a recipe for a quick exit in the playoffs. That has to change.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Does anyone have any actual numbers on Manning under center vs. playing in the shotgun, beyond just this year? I seem to recall him playing under center a lot in the first half of his Indy career and he was still really, really good those years. I mean, wasn't the go-to running play for YEARS in Indy the stretch run play to Edge? That only works when you're mostly under center.
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that's what I remember too. Manning used to have one of the best play-action fakes in the league....really hard to make play-action effective from the gun.

 
I couldn't find career numbers, but since he moved to the Broncos Peyton's QB rating under center is 113.4 and out of the shotgun is 106.8, yet in that time the Broncos have run 71% of their plays out of the shotgun. Doesn't really seem like there's any history of him being less effective under center though.

 
moleculo said:
JuniorNB said:
moleculo said:
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.
Click to expand...
I'd go the opposite way and say that everyone Manning has ever worked for figured it out and Kubiak is the first one who didn't get it. Of course Manning is better in the shotgun. He's done it his entire career. He's an offensive genius who's been an all-time top five quarterback without an ounce of athleticism. He doesn't like having to drop back before throwing, thus taking his eyes off the defense. Plus, it takes him two seconds to back up and get to where he could have been 10 seconds before the snap.

Does that hurt the running game? Of course. To a degree. But I seem to recall a lot of great games by Denver backs the last few years. As I do the old Colts teams. I also recall Marshall Faulk being fairly successful with Kurt Warner working from the shotgun. THAT'S what Kubiak needs to figure out. Trying to teach an old dog a new trick was one of the dumbest coaching moves in league history.
Click to expand...
disagree strongly. Mannings playoff failures are well documented. I'm proposing that these have been, in a large part, because his teams are one dimensional.

"Lots of great games by Denver backs the last few years" - do you mean late last season, when the only way the Broncos could manufacture any offense was by putting 6 or 7 OL on the field? Do you mean that game in NE when moreno had a huge game, because the Patriots sold out to stop Manning and eventually won in OT? The games that stick in my craw were the 2012 Ravens playoff game - 125 rushing yards on 41 attempts (3.05 YPA), and the 2013 SB ( 27 rushing yards on 14 attempts (1.93 YPA).

"the old Colt teams" - the last time the Colts had an NFL average running game w/ 2005...these are teams that routinely won 12 or more games, and in theory, the threat of Manning/Harrison/Wayne should have really opened up running lanes, yet they were never even NFL average in terms of yards per carry.

"Marshall Faulk and the Rams" - in 1999-2001, the Rams were the #1 or #2 running team in the league (y/a). Not sure how often Warner was in shotgun, but clearly they were effective. Manning's teams have never been that effective.

Kubiak/Elway know that the Manning shotgun offense is a recipe for a quick exit in the playoffs. That has to change.
Click to expand...
Manning and the Broncos made it to the Super Bowl in 2013. That's one Super Bowl ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kubiak was dumb enough to try to turn Manning into a drop back passer. And the running game sucked even worse than last year and the year before. After a game and a half, Manning told him to pound sand and he went back into the shotgun. They are 3-0. Even though Manning is 39 and probably has the least arm strength of any starting QB in the league.

They need to work on their running attack, but not at the cost of eliminating your passing attack. It was a failed hiring and a failed offensive system for the personnel they have. And coach Manning did away with it. If Anderson or Hillman can give them any semblance of a running game, combined with Manning's still effective passing and a great defense, they have as good a chance as anyone to lose to New England in the AFC Championship game.

 
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Walking Boot said:
He's also a hypocritical coward. Defender gets within 3 yards of him and he falls down and goes turtle and takes a sack so no one touches him. However, his throws usually force his receivers into getting crushed by 2-3 guys at once. They're taking massive hits out there and he keeps leading them into it.

He's gonna get someone paralyzed or killed someday while he continues to faint every time he sees another guy's shadow in the pocket.
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LOLOL It's a wonder anyone wants to play with him. :doh:

 
moleculo said:
Here's what I have become to learn about Manning - he is a one-trick pony. he thrives in the shotgun, but that historically has severely limited his teams running attack.

The last time a Manning led team was even average running the football was 2006, when they were 16th in terms of yards per attempt. The last time Manning's RB had >1100 yards was in 2005 (Edgerrin James).

IMO, the strength of Mannings personality, coupled with what he can do from the shotgun, has seduced every coach he has ever had into a very one dimensional offense. It leads to the "Star Wars" numbers in the passing game, but as we all know, one dimensional offenses tend to come up short in January.

It really is odd how Manning can't play from under center.

Kubiak is the first coach to identify this and try to work around it - amazing no one else figured this out.
Click to expand...
He can't move. A 5 step drop would take him 10 seconds to get there.

 
REASONS FOR PEYTON MANNING’S DECLINE

I never thought I’d see a team with Peyton Manning at quarterback where he was a relatively minor aspect of their game plan. That’s exactly what we’ve seen in Denver through four weeks—he’s almost become a game-manager.

The Broncos have nearly morphed into the 2014 Seattle Seahawks team that destroyed them so convincingly in Super Bowl XLVIII. The current Broncos roster is 4-0 because their defense, which has been the best in the NFL; their quarterback has been able to do just enough to seal the win.

Right now, Manning is a smaller piece of the puzzle than he has ever been—which is a good thing, because he is playing as poorly as he’s ever played. When I say as poorly as he has ever played, I mean we can probably go all the way back to rookie-Manning to see this kind of performance. He has thrown six touchdowns and five interceptions this season. Last year, after four games, he had thrown eight touchdowns and just one pick. The year before that, 16 touchdowns and no picks.

Since this is a time when even the base stats tell the story, I don’t need to labor the point too much. Manning is PFF’s 28th best-graded quarterback so far this year. He sits one spot below Ryan Fitzpatrick and one above Johnny Manziel. He has been ranked alongside Ryan Mallett for most of the season. None of these are good things.

...
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Lmao, I love this! The haters are so angry that even though he's not good anymore and doesn't have to produce, he finally has a defense now, and despite his garb play, he's on a 5-0 team. It's saltier than the Dead Sea in here.

 
Plorfu said:
ShamrockPride said:
Lmao, I love this! The haters are so angry that even though he's not good anymore and doesn't have to produce, he finally has a defense now, and despite his garb play, he's on a 5-0 team. It's saltier than the Dead Sea in here.
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wat?
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The guy carries horrible teams to the playoffs and/or SB for over a decade. Now finally the other players on the team are starting to pull their weight as Manning fades and the FBG message board 'geniuses' are acting like he's the worst thing that ever happened to Indy/Denver.

Pathetic jealousy, really.

 
Warrior said:
Plorfu said:
ShamrockPride said:
Lmao, I love this! The haters are so angry that even though he's not good anymore and doesn't have to produce, he finally has a defense now, and despite his garb play, he's on a 5-0 team. It's saltier than the Dead Sea in here.
Click to expand...
wat?
Click to expand...
The guy carries horrible teams to the playoffs and/or SB for over a decade. Now finally the other players on the team are starting to pull their weight as Manning fades and the FBG message board 'geniuses' are acting like he's the worst thing that ever happened to Indy/Denver.

Pathetic jealousy, really.
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I don't know what forum you think you're in but it clearly is a Peyton manning thread on how he is declining. I think personally this is better for denver the way they are playing because peyton chokes all the time in the playoffs so now they won't have to rely on him but it is clearly showing he is not what he used to be.

 
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