Mavis
Footballguy
The NFL filing in NY court is also good for Elliott owners as it shows they were getting beat down in Texas.
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RB Ezekiel Elliott, NE (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Tim, while this could be the way it plays out, it probably won't. Legally, the Zeke camp doesn't have much to argue. While the Brady case isn't exactly the same, it showed that the courts will ultimately defer to the NFL. The judge who overturned Brady's suspension remarked that the NFL had been unfair to Brady too. His decision was reversed because the appeals court ruled that that wasn't the point. The court wasn't supposed to rule on the fairness of the NFLs procedures, only whether they violated the CBA. While many things are unfair about this process, based on what's been reported, it doesn't sound like the CBA was violated. A judge who reversed this suspension would have to know it would likely be reversed upon appeal, & judges don't like that.
So, again, it could play out the way you hope, but I doubt that's a sure, or even likely, thing.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, you might be right. This morning I've read some legal experts who think that the law does indeed heavily favor the NFL and there will be no restraining order. Guess we'll see.
timschochet
Footballguy
If the suspension holds up then I HAVE to win this week. No way I can afford to start 0-1. After that I have to survive the next 7 weeks, somehow go 3-4 at least.
I imagine most Elliot owners are in the same situation. Most of us should have one stud player besides Elliot as he was likely our 2nd pick; for me it's Leveon Bell. Bell has to carry the load for me.
I imagine most Elliot owners are in the same situation. Most of us should have one stud player besides Elliot as he was likely our 2nd pick; for me it's Leveon Bell. Bell has to carry the load for me.
LionOfGosforth
Footballguy
Honestly don't think i'd take him in redraft now unless he fell to late second which hasn't been happening much that i've seen. Drafted him in auction due to the way risk can be mitigated in those leagues, but redraft is a different story.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Filing a lawsuit in NY. How pathetic is the NFL? I can't imagine the next negotiations not being very tense. Precident had been set twice now for the league to collude to suspend a top player.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
as if he did nothing wrong? let's be real here... Zeke isn't doing Sunday church readings... the guy has a history. while I think innocent until guilty should be the way the NFL treats these cases, I'm not going to sit here and pretend the NFL is doing this for the sake of doing it...
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
The NFL is doing this for the purpose of maintaining power. That's it. Let's not pretend Goodell is trying to find out the truth or impose an equitable punishment here. That is not what this is about --- and the way he has handled this, it hasn't been about that for awhile (if it ever was).
He is using this almost purely to position the NFL in advance of the 2020 CBA negotiations.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Drafting tonight.... 12 team ppr, with only 4 bench spots, (only need to start one RB) 8 Teams make playoffs.
19 overall or not?
Seems like Friday is the key day now.
19 overall or not?
Seems like Friday is the key day now.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I would say this: Zeke is bordering on a thug label if not already having earned it. he has a rap sheet that gets longer by the month. he doesn't make good decisions. he has been in the media for all the wrong reasons and one would have to wonder if he was being given preferential treatment given his superstar status. especially when other athletes have been given punishments for behavioral issues.
I think the NFL had to do something because zeke was showing a trend of bad decisions. they've punished people in the past for equal or less and needed to-do something again. the fact that it's a woman makes it even more of a political hot topic
the NFL is concerned about one thing, it's image. zeke has not helped that image. Goodell doesn't want his decision overturned because then he looks foolish and loses power for future suspensions. he's not worried about helping a young budding star in troubled times. I don't blame the NFL for doing what they're doing because it's a business. zeke and every NFL player know how Goodell is on punishments. why they make bad decisions and then are shocked at punishments is beyond me. it's like being mad at the police officer for pulling you over for going 55 in a 25... you know the rules
timschochet
Footballguy
It seems to me that there are now 4 no brainer, elite players in FF: Johnson, Bell, Brown, and Jones. If you get 1 of those 4, you can take a chance on Elliot in round 2. If you don't get one of those 4, it's too big a risk because if the suspension is upheld you may be too far behind in your league by week 9. That's how I see it.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
While I agree, (I pick 6) With 8 of 12 teams making the playoffs it could be a bit easier in these settings I'd only have to start 1RB and 3WR per week. The hardest part is deciding if I want to stash Zeke with only 4 bench spots and manage bye's etc.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Goodell had the power to suspend Zeke for all of that stuff overtly. Yet the explanations offered have made clear that he isn't being punished for the "other stuff" - so why is that? If you are correct - and you very well could be correct - then why not just be transparent about it?
I'll offer this again, just for clarity - I'm not defending Zeke. If he abused the alleged victim, then he deserves a longer suspension along with jail time. Thanks to the piss poor way Goodell and team have handled this, along with their past history of being "gamesman" at best, liars at worst, I have no confidence in the league's view on Zeke.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Fair question. I see McFadden at about 70% of Zeke.
Edit to add: that doesn't mean I think McFadden will have 3.5 domestic incidents. Strictly keeping this to on field stats.
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Mavis
Footballguy
As long as Goodell is commish, the bolded can not be true in my opinion.
Lots of opinion spoken as fact. He doesnt make good decisions? Thats assuming every decision he ever made was bad. Lots of biased opinions that present itself from those who doesnt like zeke. Which is fine, but that clearly impacts the opinion it appears.
Thug label? By those who dont like him, yes...which I pointed that out that some just dont.
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Mavis
Footballguy
Thats a tough number to pin down, its possible DMC can get 120 and 1 or 80 and 2 in this offense, he is talented in some regard.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yeah I agree. It's always ridiculous how the NFL just falls flat on their face when it comes to handling these cases. I think they know the law/CBO is on their side so why give explanations? The more you talk, the more it can be used against you.
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The reality is this, and I say this as both a Cowboys fan and EE owner: The NFLPA will lose their appeal in Texas and really only have themselves to blame. The current CBA gave management the right to discipline as they see fit. It is in the contract signed by both parties. Fairness has no bearing on this.
Zeke will play week #1 and then sit for six.
Zeke will play week #1 and then sit for six.
Hahahahaha, I love how so many Salty Haters who crucified Brady for destroying his old cell phone now try to defend Zeke for destroying his old texts.
Btw, not that it matters, but where does it say factory reset in the article? Where does it say he recycled/gave them away? Nowhere. You are assuming way too many things to justify how Zeke destroying his old texts was innocent and routine.
Why is that any more pathetic than the the NFLPA filing a (questionably legal) pre-emptive lawsuit in Texas. It's no longer about right/wrong; it's about not losing contractually bargained power (for the NFL) and about chipping away at that contractually bargained power (for the NFLPA). It sucks that an individual is becoming the pawn in this situation, just as it sucked that Brady became a pawn with deflategate, but it is what it is.
70% sounds about right. Although I'm not sure he'd be able to stand up to the workload Zeke has last year, and was likely to get this year.
timschochet
Footballguy
I wouldn't chance it in that case. You just can't trust anybody you get at pick 6 enough, IMO.
timschochet
Footballguy
Totally different. I didn't own Brady. Plus, I hate Brady.Hahahahaha, I love how so many Salty Haters who crucified Brady for destroying his old cell phone now try to defend Zeke for destroying his old texts.
Normally, I'd agree. But if he only has to start 1 RB AND 8/12 teams make playoffs, he could make it work. The lack of bench depth makes it a risk, but the reward could be great (if the suspension doesn't drag into FF playoffs).
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Do that many people actually find it important to get McFadden when drafting Elliott? I took Elliott in two different drafts and did not care whether I got McFadden or not. I was not going to grab him at his inflated price just to use him for a few games. I prefer grabbing guys who I feel have the shot at being a starter the entire year.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Bottom line for fantasy football is how many games do we get out of him in 2017? Is it one, then a suspension? Is it one, then a court giving him a temporary go? Hard to follow and decipher these laws, etc? I guess we may know more later today?
steelers1080
Footballguy
I feel like a genius for grabbing Zeke and Martin instead of McFadden. I think Martin is way better than McFadden, and now that Zeke will play week 1 I only have to hold out for 2 weeks before I have a great replacement RB.
Ghoti
Footballguy
Sorry bud. Tampa Bay has their bye this week. You're back up to 3 more weeks without Martin.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
38% of the season?
I would probably target better RB3 and 4 myself, but having McFadden gives you that offensive line. Many RBs are in RBBC and McFadden will at least get the lion's share. Can't say the same about many other RBs selected later in the draft... just as many question marks. Yes, we'd all like a roster full of Rbs at the top of their depth chart with unquestioned volume, but the fact is that is hard to find.
Moonshine
Footballguy
Check out this article by Sports Illustrated which kind of outlines the next steps.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/06/ezekiel-elliott-suspension-court-themmqb-morning-huddle-newsletter-jacob-feldman
My understanding of it all though is this:
I feel pretty safe in my belief that he'll serve all six games this year, but the big question is when. If the TRO is rejected, then it's Weeks 2-8 he'll be unstartable (6 games plus a bye week). If the TRO is accepted, he'll get, most likely (although even this isn't certain), an extra two weeks to play while the judge decides on if he wants to allow an injunction. If the judge grants the TRO but does not grant the injunction, the suspension will likely roll from Week 4 through 10, meaning we get Zeke weeks 1-3 and 11-17, depending on your league. If the judge grants an injunction on the suspension, it's totally up in the air. Technically it means the suspension is stayed indefinitely, and Zeke will be allowed to play until the judge rules on the lawfulness of the suspension, but the NFL will appeal the injunction, and contract law and statute are on the NFLs side. It could mean Zeke's suspension might not occur until next year, or the appeals court could overturn the injunction in a matter of days and the suspension will occur from that point forward.
It's a mess, is all it means. Friday we find out if we get him for another couple weeks, then it's just a waiting game to see if an injunction occurs, at which case we better all hold on to our butts. At this point, I'd almost rather the TRO be rejected, so he can serve his time and be done with it.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
It depends on how many RBs you need to start and what RBs you took early. One of my teams has David Johnson, Elliott, Hunt and Abdullah. It's a league that I only need to start two RBs so Johnson and Hunt/Abdullah seems much better than Johnson and McFadden.38% of the season?
I would probably target better RB3 and 4 myself, but having McFadden gives you that offensive line. Many RBs are in RBBC and McFadden will at least get the lion's share. Can't say the same about many other RBs selected later in the draft... just as many question marks. Yes, we'd all like a roster full of Rbs at the top of their depth chart with unquestioned volume, but the fact is that is hard to find.
The other league I have him in I also only have to start two RBs and have Fournette and Ingram I can start. I don't have that much faith in an aging McFadden with an OL that's probably not as good as last year. I'd rather use that draft pick on a player I think can be a lottery pick or just a starter all season.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Well of course the team without McFadden is preferred, but you're kind of missing the point... I imagine DJ, EE, Hunt, Abdullah cost somewhere picks 1-5. Any later I'd be absolutely surprised or it drafted early or it's an 8 team league. McFadden costs a much later draft pick. So sure, if you start two RBs I could say you're kind of foolish to spend 4 of your first 5 picks on a RB, but who knows what your scoring system is. It stands to reason that whatever round you drafted Hunt or Abdullah in you could have gotten a pretty good TE or WR, and then had McFadden as a handcuff and 6 starts out of.
Everyone's situation is different, but most EE owners would be targeting McFadden later or would have to stack up some RBs earlier in the draft as insurance. Regardless it's a tough drafting situation.
FWIW if I was able to draft EE at 2.01 in my short bench keeper league, which probably would have happened if it weren't for one moron (although I'm much happier with my team without him), I would not have went after McFadden, I would have went heavier at RB. I'd likely have Ajayi, Crowell, EE, Abdullah, and maybe even a 5th RB like Smallwood or Burkhead. As it stands now I have Ajayi, Crowell, Abdullah, Lacy (Went WR 1.12, 2.01)
Insomniac
Footballguy
The history of the NFLPA shows that they fold before they lose game checks. The 2 times they went on strike they lost badly. The vast majority of players never end up in an article 46 hearing so why would they give up any money over that issue? Is it unfair? Sure, but most of the players only last a few years and will never make up the money they'd lose in a strike/lockout.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I am not a lawyer and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either...here is my guess.
-I am of the belief Zeke wins the Texas TRO. Why else does the NFL file in NY, they know they lost. However, all it does is buy Zeke. Might drag 6-9 in appeals. He will need to decide when it makes the most sense to serve the suspension. He could VERY well play all of this year. Mark my words, he will serve a 6 game suspension.
-If Zeke fights to the end. The Courts will insist the case is re-heard with Goodell hearing all sides this time (Even though we all know he could care less about the truth). In the end, Roger will rule the same. This IS what article 46 allows him to do. He doesn't need facts, he doesn't need truth, he gets to decide what's in the best interest of the NFL. Not Zeke, not Tiffany, not DV issue's, the NFL's pocket book and PR image.
Personally, I am disgusted with the NFL. The lack of desire to hear the truth, Roger's power and fat head. The fact we all know the NFL could care less about DV, this is all grand standing. The man was NOT charged. Move on. Instead we get a kangaroo court with NFL rules, where statements are made not under oath, no cross allowed. Your lead detective recommends no suspension, she threatens to ruin Zeke, lies to Cops. The bruising is NOT conclusive.
I read the 408 page HH appeal.
NFL has:
-Zeke "lied" about them "dating" to police.
-She has bruising and said it's Zeke.
THAT'S it.
-I am of the belief Zeke wins the Texas TRO. Why else does the NFL file in NY, they know they lost. However, all it does is buy Zeke. Might drag 6-9 in appeals. He will need to decide when it makes the most sense to serve the suspension. He could VERY well play all of this year. Mark my words, he will serve a 6 game suspension.
-If Zeke fights to the end. The Courts will insist the case is re-heard with Goodell hearing all sides this time (Even though we all know he could care less about the truth). In the end, Roger will rule the same. This IS what article 46 allows him to do. He doesn't need facts, he doesn't need truth, he gets to decide what's in the best interest of the NFL. Not Zeke, not Tiffany, not DV issue's, the NFL's pocket book and PR image.
Personally, I am disgusted with the NFL. The lack of desire to hear the truth, Roger's power and fat head. The fact we all know the NFL could care less about DV, this is all grand standing. The man was NOT charged. Move on. Instead we get a kangaroo court with NFL rules, where statements are made not under oath, no cross allowed. Your lead detective recommends no suspension, she threatens to ruin Zeke, lies to Cops. The bruising is NOT conclusive.
I read the 408 page HH appeal.
NFL has:
-Zeke "lied" about them "dating" to police.
-She has bruising and said it's Zeke.
THAT'S it.
timschochet
Footballguy
Someone pmed me a request that I post the article I read which thinks there will be no restraining order. Here it is:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nfl/2017/09/06/ezekiel-elliott-suspension-court-themmqb-morning-huddle-newsletter-jacob-feldman%3fsource=dam
Just one guy's opinion, but who knows?
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nfl/2017/09/06/ezekiel-elliott-suspension-court-themmqb-morning-huddle-newsletter-jacob-feldman%3fsource=dam
Just one guy's opinion, but who knows?
steelers1080
Footballguy
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Just saw this after I posted. Damn the NFL. The teams wanted to play, and several stadiums had offered to be the location, but the NFL always knows best, right? So now 2 teams have 0 bye and are super screwed. TB has a big handicap IMO this year. Miami wasn't going to make the playoffs anyways.
The NFL is like Catelyn Stark. She keeps helping, but really is only fu**ing things up and making it worse for everybody.
Moonshine
Footballguy
Same article I posted about an hour ago, but it is certainly a good resource in laying out what Zeke's options/chances look like.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
So sounds interesting, but if he gets a restraining order and this is drawn out, isn't that worse for Zeke owners? I mean which would you all rather have: Zeke sit out weeks 2-8 or 5-11 (prime bye weeks), and then come back near fantasy playoffs with some perceived "rust" on his legs? I think it's foolish to assume that Zeke will get no suspension. Maybe reduced, but unlikely. So wouldn't you rather just have this over and done with as soon as possible at this point?
Moonshine
Footballguy
Agreed. A temporary restraining order with no injunction, or a temporary restraining order with an injunction that is overturned at appeals, is likely the worst case scenario, in my opinion, for the reasons you outlined above.
The best case scenario is temporary restraining order, with an injunction, where the case runs through the offseason and the sentence doesn't start until next year.
I think the safest case scenario, from a fantasy perspective is that the restraining order is denied, he serves his six weeks and sits out 2-8, and we just get on with our lives for the second half/quarter of the season. This is the one I think is most likely, and that I'm hoping for personally as a Zeke owner. I think option 2 above is so unlikely, that a granting of the TRO will be a death note (a little dramatic) for my fantasy team this season, since it would undoubtedly result in the scenario you've outlined above.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Johnny Bing
Footballguy
I couldn't imagine playing a football game, when your house and belongings are being destroyed by one of the largest predicted hurricanes in history. Maybe there were some players that wanted to play, but I'd have to think the majority would rather be with their family and friends to prepare for this storm.
Mavis
Footballguy
The Good Ol' Boy group in the south is a real thing, the Judge has been made aware of this I am sure...have you not seen Varsity Blues?Chaka said:
Nah but seriously... Jones probably is this judges sons godfather or something crazy we find out later. I wonder if some news like that impacts this later. He is a judge, chances are he has met Jerry Jones at some events in the area, no? Rich and the powerful to interact, especially in Texas. Check Jones' to see if he made any donations, and if he hasnt....please do so before Friday at 5pm.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The court could rule that agreed upon procedures were not followed in adhering to the CBA. If that were the case, they could force the NFL to re-hear Elliott's appeal (although they couldn't force RG to hear the appeal . . . there is no such provision stated in the CBA). Of course, the league could then deny the appeal anyway (which they would), so ultimately Zeke is likely putting off the inevitable.Bankerguy said:
