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Official Dynasty & Redraft: RB Ezekiel Elliott, Cowboys


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3 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Slightly off topic, but something popped into my head about this yesterday.  Apparently Kenneth Dixon is serving his 4 game PED related suspension WHILE being on the NFL IR list.  He's serving them concurrently - so that next year he's eligible to return week 1 both healthy (I hope) and not suspended.

How would this apply to Zeke?  Say (God forbid, and I'm saying that as a Redskins fan!), he continues playing due to a TRO or other legal tactic, and gets hurt.  Say it's a 4-5 week kinda thing.  Could he then just give up all the fight on a dime and serve the suspension while missing games anyway due to the injury?

This was already brought up in this thread.  Yes, most likely.

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I'm a glutton for drama and headaches apparently.  

Spent just under 21% for Elliot in my auction redraft last night.  There are 2-3 Cowboy fans in the league and I actually was just trying to bid him up but ultimately rolled the dice.  He was the 9th most expensive RB and I the 15th most expensive overall.  PPR but RB heavy scoring FWIW.

Now, I'm invested in this drama.  Let's see how it plays out,

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28 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Slightly off topic, but something popped into my head about this yesterday.  Apparently Kenneth Dixon is serving his 4 game PED related suspension WHILE being on the NFL IR list.  He's serving them concurrently - so that next year he's eligible to return week 1 both healthy (I hope) and not suspended.

How would this apply to Zeke?  Say (God forbid, and I'm saying that as a Redskins fan!), he continues playing due to a TRO or other legal tactic, and gets hurt.  Say it's a 4-5 week kinda thing.  Could he then just give up all the fight on a dime and serve the suspension while missing games anyway due to the injury?

As several other people have mentioned, he could do that.  However, that's looking at it from a primarily FF-biased point of view.  "Oh, he's gonna be out anyway?  Drop the appeal & serve the suspension while you heal, so I don't lose you for more games than I have to."  In reality, Zeke wants to get as much of his salary as he can & his "reputation" is probably the 2nd most important priority.  Him helping the Cowboys win a SB probably comes third (maybe flip-flop it with his reputation), and helping his FF owners is probably WAY down the list.

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Just now, Bayhawks said:

As several other people have mentioned, he could do that.  However, that's looking at it from a primarily FF-biased point of view.  "Oh, he's gonna be out anyway?  Drop the appeal & serve the suspension while you heal, so I don't lose you for more games than I have to."  In reality, Zeke wants to get as much of his salary as he can & his "reputation" is probably the 2nd most important priority.  Him helping the Cowboys win a SB probably comes third (maybe flip-flop it with his reputation), and helping his FF owners is probably WAY down the list.

Sorry I missed it before, it's a fast moving thread and I haven't kept completely up with it.  Anyway, if Zeke is out to get as much of his salary as he can - and it's looking like he's going to have to miss 6 games anyway, then he'd want to serve the suspension this year rather than next year (6/16s of $1.58m rather than 6/16s of $2.71m - $593k this year, or over a million if served next year). 

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1 hour ago, socrates said:

is an act of folly to try to guess how any Judge will rule, so this is all speculation.  My personal opinion is, why not grant the Temporary Restraining Order (TRO)?  ...

This issue reminds me a little bit of some of the past injury threads where FBGs transform into doctors and try to augur the extent of a lis franc injury or how a QB's PCL will affect his throwing. I think this guy Michael McCann has been a pretty good follow on this issue. He says. EE has to run the table to win and the law is stacked against him.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This issue reminds me a little bit of some of the past injury threads where FBGs transform into doctors and try to augur the extent of a lis franc injury or how a QB's PCL will affect his throwing. I think this guy Michael McCann has been a pretty good follow on this issue. He says. EE has to run the table to win and the law is stacked against him.

While I agree, I will not ever try to predict a judge. I will talk about my beliefs, but guessing what a guy in a black robe will do is not wise.

The guys I shared the links to and even this guy, they all spin it their way a little bit. Cant trust Will Cain, Wallach or this guy regardless of if their right. Someone will be, but thats part of it in the guessing game.

This is for certain, we will know a lot about the process of this depending on how this judge rules. Means the judge thinks its enough up in the air to see time in court, doesnt mean that any party is right or wrong, but that there was enough reason to give pause that this was done correctly, CBA or not.

As some of us have contended, there are terms to procedure, and that Zeke did not get fair procedure. Who are any of us to question this judge in this case who has seen more info than any of us and has more legal expertise than 99.9% of us? I say this before his judgement, because I will also trusts the judges decision either way about how he rules on procedure.

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3 minutes ago, Mavis said:

While I agree, I will not ever try to predict a judge. I will talk about my beliefs, but guessing what a guy in a black robe will do is not wise.

The guys I shared the links to and even this guy, they all spin it their way a little bit. Cant trust Will Cain, Wallach or this guy regardless of if their right. Someone will be, but thats part of it in the guessing game.

This is for certain, we will know a lot about the process of this depending on how this judge rules. Means the judge thinks its enough up in the air to see time in court, doesnt mean that any party is right or wrong, but that there was enough reason to give pause that this was done correctly, CBA or not.

As some of us have contended, there are terms to procedure, and that Zeke did not get fair procedure. Who are any of us to question this judge in this case who has seen more info than any of us and has more legal expertise than 99.9% of us? I say this before his judgement, because I will also trusts the judges decision either way about how he rules on procedure.

Fwiw here's McCann's article.

- It's pretty technical but it lays out what must happen to win a full season of EE. 

- I think you make good points and we all know it just depends on the judge. And I like that you're willing to hang your on the judge's decision, I agree. However Goodell has done a lot of unfair things with irrational and oblique procedure. Maybe this time he gets shut down for it, we'll see.

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Of course its all speculation at this point.

Personally, I believe its about 99.999% that Elliot will serve a 6 game suspension.

The only question is when.  Those of us invested in him in redraft are hoping that its pushed to 2018 or begins week 2 to get it over with.  As others have stated, worst case seems to be that its delayed and then is enforced during the stretch run of this FF season.  That would suck......

Edited by VaTerp
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Seems this guy is the follow, either way you lean.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  6m6 minutes ago

I have @Frank_Cawley's extensive notes from Tuesday's hearing before Judge Mazzant. Without the transcript, this is the next best thing. T/K

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  3m3 minutes ago

I'm also in the process of obtaining the transcript from Tuesday's Ezekiel Elliott court hearing. Will have it shortly. Stay tuned.

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10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This issue reminds me a little bit of some of the past injury threads where FBGs transform into doctors and try to augur the extent of a lis franc injury or how a QB's PCL will affect his throwing. I think this guy Michael McCann has been a pretty good follow on this issue. He says. EE has to run the table to win and the law is stacked against him.

McCann repeats the standard of "substantial likelihood"

Quote

Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw·36m

Replying to @D_Ricker81 and @fxcant

Technically he must show he has a substantial likelihood of success on the merits, but sometimes judges use TROs to get more time to review.

I have seen the standard listed both ways, as "substantial likelihood" and "likelihood of success".

I agree with McCann's take on this:

Quote

Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw·45m

Replying to @D_Ricker81 and @fxcant

I think ultimately Elliott serves the 6-game suspension. The law is stacked against him. But when he'll serve it is much harder to predict.

 

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Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  13s13 seconds ago

Kessler: "Not all cases require the right to confront the accuser, but this one does" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  1m1 minute ago

Judge Mazzano: "Issue is not credibility, but fundamental fairness" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  2m2 minutes ago

Judge Mazzano: "Wouldn't you agree that the alleged procedural errors are done and there's nothing left to be deciced on those issues."

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  27s28 seconds ago

NFL attorney to Judge Mazzant: The "possibility" of victory undermines irreparable harm Judge Mazzant: "You can't fix procedural errors"

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Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley  41m41 minutes ago

NFLPA co-lead counsel Tom Melsheimer is currently involved in a two-week trial in Judge Mazzant's court.

 

Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley  40m40 minutes ago

His familiarity with Judge Mazzant undoubtedly factored into where case was filed.

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2 hours ago, matttyl said:

Sorry I missed it before, it's a fast moving thread and I haven't kept completely up with it.  Anyway, if Zeke is out to get as much of his salary as he can - and it's looking like he's going to have to miss 6 games anyway, then he'd want to serve the suspension this year rather than next year (6/16s of $1.58m rather than 6/16s of $2.71m - $593k this year, or over a million if served next year). 

That's a damn good point.  I hadn't thought about the escalation of his salary from year 2 to year 3.

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1 hour ago, Mavis said:

While I agree, I will not ever try to predict a judge. I will talk about my beliefs, but guessing what a guy in a black robe will do is not wise.

The guys I shared the links to and even this guy, they all spin it their way a little bit. Cant trust Will Cain, Wallach or this guy regardless of if their right. Someone will be, but thats part of it in the guessing game.

This is for certain, we will know a lot about the process of this depending on how this judge rules. Means the judge thinks its enough up in the air to see time in court, doesnt mean that any party is right or wrong, but that there was enough reason to give pause that this was done correctly, CBA or not.

As some of us have contended, there are terms to procedure, and that Zeke did not get fair procedure. Who are any of us to question this judge in this case who has seen more info than any of us and has more legal expertise than 99.9% of us? I say this before his judgement, because I will also trusts the judges decision either way about how he rules on procedure.

:goodposting:Another damn good post, especially the bolded.

Edited by Bayhawks
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1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  2m2 minutes ago

Judge Mazzano: "Wouldn't you agree that the alleged procedural errors are done and there's nothing left to be deciced on those issues."

 

I suspect this was in response to the NFL's request that the matter be dismissed as not yet being ripe.  I read that to say the Judge is suggesting that, at least on the issue of alleged procedural errors (denying Elliott the right to face his accuser, examine the Commissioner, etc.), the issue before the Court was already ripe, and Henderson's pending ruling would have no effect upon that issue.

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  13s13 seconds ago

Kessler: "Not all cases require the right to confront the accuser, but this one does" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

This is not a quote from the Judge, but rather the argument by attorney Jeffrey Kessler on behalf of the NFLPA and Ezekiel Elliott.

 

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  1m1 minute ago

Judge Mazzano: "Issue is not credibility, but fundamental fairness" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

 

The issue before the Court is not one of credibility of the witness.  Instead, the issue before the Court is one of fundamental fairness.  The Court is not conducting a de novo review of the facts of the case.

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4 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

:goodposting:Another damn good post, especially the bolded.

I will amend that we can talk about what some of the quotes from the judge be shared above means, however...

Like it doesnt mean he will, but responding to the NFL lawyers the way he does and the NFL leaving and immediatley filing in NY does not look good for the NFL in my opinion as it sits now regarding the TRO.

Now, thats not to say Zeke will win the case and get 6 games back, but it does look like he will be able to play this season if we are guaging the can he play or will he play stock market if you will.

Ask you this, if you are a betting man and you have to put your house on a side based off how this judge rules (not the enitre case outcome)...

where u betting, does Zeke play this year? 

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15 minutes ago, socrates said:

I suspect this was in response to the NFL's request that the matter be dismissed as not yet being ripe.  I read that to say the Judge is suggesting that, at least on the issue of alleged procedural errors (denying Elliott the right to face his accuser, examine the Commissioner, etc.), the issue before the Court was already ripe, and Henderson's pending ruling would have no effect upon that issue.

This is not a quote from the Judge, but rather the argument by attorney Jeffrey Kessler on behalf of the NFLPA and Ezekiel Elliott.

 

The issue before the Court is not one of credibility of the witness.  Instead, the issue before the Court is one of fundamental fairness.  The Court is not conducting a de novo review of the facts of the case.

Yes, thank you. This is what some of us have been saying.

This is about procedure.

Here is something for those who say the Brady case matters here, the Judge says you are not correct in any way.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  15m15 minutes ago

Judge Mazzant: "None of the other cases have the facts we have here. Here there is a series of events I can't ignore"

 

Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley

The more differences Mazzant sees b/t this case and Brady, the less controlling or persuasive Brady becomes.

 

I'll say it now after that last tweet with a judge quote, Zeke is getting the TRO. I see why lawyers in the room agreed with that premise.

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These notes are great and full of Judge quotes. I think a TRO is a given at this point. Judge said the "standard for the TRO is not that high." 

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  52m52 minutes ago

Here are @Frank_Cawley's hearing notes from Tuesday's TRO hearing before Judge Mazzant: http://bit.ly/2xdVSpe Transcript expected shortly.

 

Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley  57m57 minutes ago

This statement explains why NFL is focusing on jurisdiction. They want out of Mazzant's court b/c he sees this case as different than Brady

 

the lack of debate in this thread now tells me exactly what everyone thinks will happen and those who are 

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2 hours ago, Mavis said:

I will amend that we can talk about what some of the quotes from the judge be shared above means, however...

Like it doesnt mean he will, but responding to the NFL lawyers the way he does and the NFL leaving and immediatley filing in NY does not look good for the NFL in my opinion as it sits now regarding the TRO.

Now, thats not to say Zeke will win the case and get 6 games back, but it does look like he will be able to play this season if we are guaging the can he play or will he play stock market if you will.

Ask you this, if you are a betting man and you have to put your house on a side based off how this judge rules (not the enitre case outcome)...

where u betting, does Zeke play this year? 

Not a betting man, and if I were, this isn't something I'd bet on; it's too unclear.

The law is on the NFL's side; article 46 established that Goodell has pretty-much unquestioned authority to discipline players.  It's been challenged twice the last few years, and the players lost in each situation. 

The judge, however, could decide to ignore the law & past precedents & grant an injunction while the case is pending.  In that case, Zeke would still have to get the court proceedings to drag into 2019 to avoid missing time (regular season/playoffs) this year.  As matttyl pointed out, that will cost Zeke almost twice as much in salary.  You'd have to wonder if at some point his lawyers point out that it's likely that he will lose this case at some point & it'd be best (financially-speaking) for him to serve the games this year, rather than next.

Friday is a key day.  If Zeke is granted the injunction (barring something unforeseen happening), I think his FF owners are safe for at least 2 months.  After that time, it's very possible that his case could get resolved.  At that time, he could be lost for the FF playoff run/playoffs.

If I owned him in Fantasy, I'd hope for the injunction, hope for a good couple games, then I'd see if I could trade him to someone who was optimistic he'd play out the year.  It might cost me if he's available in the playoffs (& my thoughts might change by then), but that's an option I could see myself looking into.

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I drafted him at 30 last night 3.6 and I'm not sure what I'm rooting for.  I think even if a TRO happens I'd want him suspended Weeks 8-13.  Back for FF playoffs and you get him to start your season.  I guess it doesn't matter but that would at least allow me a few weeks to aid the RB depth.

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5 hours ago, matttyl said:

Sorry I missed it before, it's a fast moving thread and I haven't kept completely up with it.  Anyway, if Zeke is out to get as much of his salary as he can - and it's looking like he's going to have to miss 6 games anyway, then he'd want to serve the suspension this year rather than next year (6/16s of $1.58m rather than 6/16s of $2.71m - $593k this year, or over a million if served next year). 

I don't think it is about the money for Zeke. If it were he wouldn't be paying a boatload of money to high priced attorneys to fight this. He'd take the punishment and move on and only miss one divisional game between weeks 2-8. I think it is more about trying to fight what he perceives as the unfairness of it all. 

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14 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

I drafted him at 30 last night 3.6 and I'm not sure what I'm rooting for.  I think even if a TRO happens I'd want him suspended Weeks 8-13.  Back for FF playoffs and you get him to start your season.  I guess it doesn't matter but that would at least allow me a few weeks to aid the RB depth.

Feel like the TRO being granted could open up a can of worms and this thing takes until the offseason to get settled.

Would the NFL really want to upset the competitive balance by removing Zeke in the middle of the season? Just deal with it in the offseason.

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Just now, beerbuff said:

I don't think it is about the money for Zeke. If it were he wouldn't be paying a boatload of money to high priced attorneys to fight this. He'd take the punishment and move on and only miss one divisional game between weeks 2-8. I think it is more about trying to fight what he perceives as the unfairness of it all. 

Honest question - is he paying for the lawyers or is the NFLPA doing so on his behalf?

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1 minute ago, kyoun1e said:

Feel like the TRO being granted could open up a can of worms and this thing takes until the offseason to get settled.

Would the NFL really want to upset the competitive balance by removing Zeke in the middle of the season? Just deal with it in the offseason.

And let the luck of the schedule draw fix it in the off-season?

NFL can look good by putting Zeke on the exempt list, he's getting paid while this all gets worked out.

 

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6 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

And let the luck of the schedule draw fix it in the off-season?

NFL can look good by putting Zeke on the exempt list, he's getting paid while this all gets worked out.

 

Exempt list is not happening, I cant find the link... but someone of the good follows above said any judge in the world would be furious and may grant an injunction on that without filings even needed. Goodell doing so would not likely happen based off the judge embarrassing him more. Also, suspension has been handed down i think the writer might have misjudged that one. Not sure.

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Just now, Mavis said:

Exempt list is not happening, I cant find the link... but someone of the good follows above said any judge in the world would be furious and may grant an injunction on that without filings even needed. Goodell doing so would not likely happen based off the judge embarrassing him more. 

Thank You, Why has he used it in the past? 

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7 minutes ago, The General said:

Today we find out if our fantasy football0 lotto ticket hits.

Not necessarily.  The Judge may issue a Temporary Restraining Order today and set a hearing for the next couple of weeks to consider a Preliminary Injunction.  We may not get much clarity today on how the rest of the season plays out.

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7 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to start week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

True.  But having him the full 16 games would be pretty decent too.

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Just now, CalvinJ55 said:

True.  But having him the full 16 games would be pretty decent too.

That would be neat.

I'll hang out here all day and think I'm a lawyer.  Hoping this ticket cashes as I wasn't able to back Zeke up with anything decent.

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Just now, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

That would be the absolute worst scenario for Elliott owners.

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19 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to start week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

I drafted Zeke on the swell of positivity thinking that his suspension would get overturned.  Always knew that I'd have to be prepared to deal with 6 weeks without a top draft pick, but never thought it would come to reality.  Here's hoping there's some better news in the wake of a disappointing Thursday night if you're invested in Pats/Brady/Gronk in any way.

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1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

The way I understand it, things have to work out pretty perfect for that to happen. 

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

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2 minutes ago, socrates said:

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

apparently "the odds of that happening are looking pretty solid" :shrug:

Color me skeptical

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