Chaka
Footballguy
Nothing I say will ever convince you otherwise (I doubt Jerry Jones himself could convince you otherwise) so I'm just going to be happy that you're speaking with me again and call it a win.
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RB Ezekiel Elliott, NE (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
Eessh.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Hes no Kareem Hunt
Gopher State
Footballguy
Mavis
Footballguy
Since he didnt get convicted of a crime, I would suggest law basics. lol
But seriously, They handed him the ball 9 times. They handed their stud RB the ball 9 times with a spread offense against the worlds best secondary. Linehan and Garrett should be fired for their coaching performance if we are going to lose our minds with over reactions.
They targeted Dez more times than they handed it to their stud RB. I can find any scrub wanna be coach to come up with that game plan. Everytime they ran him, it was predictable and into the teeth of the D. Unreal play calling.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Yep, looked quite like the Detroit Lions playcalling. Delay runs out of the pistol/shotgun on 1st down.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Since I do not like his character on or off the field I enjoyed the game. That said it was, in my mind, an anomaly and I would gladly field offers from his disgruntled owners.
Mavis
Footballguy
I always wonder, do people watch football games for players character? I never said "Come on, get me this first down, I hate Aaron Rodgers." Or "Man, I hope we win, I really hope for Zeke to lose."
Zeke and Rodgers are not on the side of the helmets, the team logos are and the helmets will still be the helmets when those players leave the team.
I dont like Rodgers at all, or Sherman, or Dez...but doesnt mean I want to see a good player hurt or beat down especially when more good players get shut down the more we have threads like this discussing bad football.
I want Zeke, or Julio or Gronk healthy and lighting of the score sheet if I own them in fantasy or not and if I like them or not. Good football players on offense is good for the game, no one likes defensive games on TV. We like scoring!
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I did not root for injury. I love a good defensive game. And yes, I want good guys to succeed and poor character guys to fail. I know the game is not a morality play, but there it is, there are some guys it gives me satisfaction to see do poorly. I don't encourage others to feel as I do, I just recognize it in myself.Mavis said:
I believe Elliot will do just fine, stat-wise, moving forward.
Mavis
Footballguy
Some on the board do seem to root for the injury bug to effect some every now and again however I wasnt talking to you directly per say, just in general.
I can imagine though the number of people pulling for Zeke to fail.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Even in my negative moments thinking about young, spoiled multimillionaire players with the world at their feet I do try to understand their youth. Hell, at my age and experience I might play the fool if given their wealth and advantages and I have a lifetime of experience upon which to draw. Damn skippy I would have acquitted myself poorly at 22 given what he has. Hell, I acquitted myself poorly at 22 without money and fame.
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Chaka
Footballguy
A slightly more measured interpretation, of Mort'n'Schefter's hot take.Mavis said:
I am sure you would have gotten around to posting it eventually but I thought I'd save you the effort.
The NFL compensation committee consists of: Clark Hunt (KC), Robert K. Kraft (NE), John Mara (NYG), Bob McNair (HOU) and Art Rooney (PIT) and is led by Arthur Blank (ATL).
Mavis
Footballguy
Working over time to try to make it look like facts dont dispute every wrong thing you said?"If not for Jerry, this deal would be done."
Let it go man, you were wrong. Jerry is the most powerful owner in sports.
Anyways, back to more pressing matters...
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 25s25 seconds ago
Mazzant: "NFL is seeking expedited relief from CA5 w/o first waiting for me to rule on the same issue. The irony is not lost on the court."
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Chaka
Footballguy
Sorry didn't mean to challenge your world view.
"If not for Jerry, this deal would be done."
Let it go man, you were wrong. Jerry is the most powerful owner in sports.
#alternativefacts
Mavis
Footballguy
Its all good!
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 5m5 minutes ago
Mazzant says NFLPA’s jurisdictional argument “could have been clearer,” but it’s his job to address jurisdiction.
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 2m2 minutes ago
Mazzant: “The Court does not believe that exhaustion [of arbitral remedies] is a jurisdictional requirement”
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 13m13 minutes ago
Elliott's status for the next 6 games is now in the hands in the Fifth Circuit. If a stay is granted, the suspension begins immediately.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
odds? I'm no lawyer, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the NFL have to prove irreparable harm in order to win a stay? Not sure how Zeke playing irreparably harms the NFL assuming that the appeal get adjudicated at some point.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I give it a 5% chance.
95% Elliott plays all year and gets suspended next year. Reduced to 3 games.
He'll be the 3rd overall pick despite the suspension, which in believe is foolish.
Also, tomorrow's winning lottery numbers are 7, 12, 13, 22, 45 & the powerball is 7.
Mavis
Footballguy
I am no lawyer, but based off of how I am clearly consuming as much info on this case as I can, short answer. YES.
However, what is lost in all this is the NFL is asking the 5CA to not only issue a stay but rule on the case on its merits before Judge Mazzant can rule on the case in its entirety.
I'm no lawyer as I said, but ask any of them or any judge...asking for a ruling before a judge asked to heard the case has ruled is a no no of all no nos as we have learned. They didnt just do it with the stay they are trying to insult Judge Mazzant all the way to the 5CA, their arrogance may hurt them here as Judges dont like any other judge being disrespected in any way.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Hence the irony quote from Mazzant. Got it. So I guess my question is, if they are asking for an actual ruling as part of the stay and the 5CA decides it won't do so (even if it agreed w/ the irreparable harm concept) does that put an end to the stay?
Mavis
Footballguy
If the 5CA fails to rule or denies the stay, Judge Mazzant can take 3 years to put the case on his docket if he so chooses. As the stay will be denied and the 5CA says it wont rule on anything until Mazzant does.
Mavis
Footballguy
So, in case anyone is wondering how the NFL is going to fair in this case...
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 7m7 minutes ago
Mazzant also describes evidence rulings as “misconduct” by Henderson. Sounds like he would find evident partiality.
A little turn of events as the memo from Mazzant is basically describing his ruling on the case in general, which can set up the 5CA to rule (I have been told a simple call to Mazzants office to ask for permission to rule from the 5CA is a likelihood.
It appears that the case can be finalized anywhere from moments to years right now, best pick up DMC for the next 24 hours as the NFL asked them to rule by 11am tomorrow.
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 7m7 minutes ago
Mazzant also describes evidence rulings as “misconduct” by Henderson. Sounds like he would find evident partiality.
A little turn of events as the memo from Mazzant is basically describing his ruling on the case in general, which can set up the 5CA to rule (I have been told a simple call to Mazzants office to ask for permission to rule from the 5CA is a likelihood.
It appears that the case can be finalized anywhere from moments to years right now, best pick up DMC for the next 24 hours as the NFL asked them to rule by 11am tomorrow.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
So cliff notes? Wallach guy still thinks it'll be denied? and then Mazzant can take forever to add this to the docket so he plays all year?
Mavis
Footballguy
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL 8m8 minutes ago
Judge Mazzant says he won’t be able to resolve the NFLPA’s petition to vacate before November 5, 2017:
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Even more confused. I don't understand anything this Wallach guy says.
I thought we were deterring the stay this week. If it's a stay he likely plays all year, if denied he starts his 6 games.
Mavis
Footballguy
Huh? He is just quoting things from Mazzants brief. Mazzant says he wont be able to resolve the case that NFLPA filed with Mazzant until Nov at the least. His only ruling was for the injunction and denying the stay of that injunction as of now. The actual case is still pending.
The NFL is asking the 5CA to rule on not only the stay, but the case as a whole before Mazzant can rule. Even Wallach could not anticipate that level of arrogance, as he made it clear, people dont do that stuff, because its terrible legal strategy to disrespect judges.
wakelawyer
Footballguy
My understanding is as follows:
Zeke moved for a stay before the trial court which was granted.
The NFL moved, before the trial court, to stay the injunction -- which was denied today.
The NFL moved, before the 5th Circuit, to reinstate the suspension -- that has not been decided. It will likely be decided, and in Zeke's favor, in the next few days and possibly today. The Court's decision will almost certainly be grounded on the fact that the NFL cannot establish irreparable harm.
The end result is that this matter will not be resolved this year. The trial court will not rule on the merits of the case for several months and, even if Zeke loses, he would file an appeal and seek a stay pending appeal. He would almost certainly get a stay pending appeal. The appeal would not be resolved until after the season.
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Insoxicated
wakelawyer
Footballguy
As for the merits, the trial court used some strong language attacking the NFL's procedure, due process, and fairness and found that Zeke had a reasonable probability of winning. But, remember, the Brady court had the same probability of winning determination. And we know how that ended. The key here is that, even if Zeke wins the whole case, the likely relief is that this goes back to the NFL process and Zeke gets a new hearing. And I would think that the NFL would clean up the procedural issues but come to the same ruling. And then the process could start all over again. Although not likely, it is not unheard of that Zeke could use the Court process to avoid missing time next year. But I think that, in that event, the Courts would expedite the process to get a ruling quickly.
So, absent a settlement, I think that Zeke plays this year and ends up serving a 6-game suspension next year.
So, absent a settlement, I think that Zeke plays this year and ends up serving a 6-game suspension next year.
wakelawyer
Footballguy
This is very very very unlikely. Courts have benchmarks for getting cases trial ready and that would be outside of the norm. Add in the publicity this case has and this case will get the rocket docket and be resolved quickly, albeit most likely not in time to reinstate the suspension this year.
Mavis
Footballguy
True, but fairness was not the merits of the case. It was that the league couldnt suspend for such causes and that the punishment was too severe.
Merits of the cases are quite difference, as the judge of current record has said. But good points in your posts.
This case violates federal law as seen by the judge, the Brady case did not. the LMRA and FAA laws are in play here, procedure is the infraction not severity of punishment. Bradys procedure was done fairly, this one was not and we all knew that one the news broke that Henderson denied putting forth witnesses.
Remember Arbitrators have the power of the courts behind them, you dont get that without having some regulations.
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Mavis
Footballguy
You want your stud RB to track down a player in a game they are getting destroyed in?
Why? Are we going to pretend it matters to us to see RB hustle and track down a player when they are a big part of your chance at a SB?
I want all skill players to lay down and play dead, not kidding, after interceptions that are already being taken to the house.
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Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Out of curiosity, did Zeke win you a championship last year? It seems he can do no wrong.
wakelawyer
Footballguy
Sorry, let me clarify. When I say merits of the case, I'm talking about the merits of the federal court litigation. This case revolves around the procedure and process employed rather than the ultimate outcome. And you are correct that this is why this case is different than Brady. The issue in the Brady case was the claim that there was an incorrect ruling or a penalty not consistent with prior penalties. And the court was not able to grant relief because it was bound to honor the prior ruling absent a finding of a procedural defect. However, here, the issue is the claim that the process was flawed and that would entitle Zeke to relief. Unfortunately for him that relief would likely be a rehearing.
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
Peter King sure has questioned it. Says if the Cowboys don't reprimand him for total lack of effort than something is wrong with the organization
Mavis
Footballguy
Nope, just seems here we try to pretend to care much more about the character of football players who we are here to discuss help us win championships. To be honest, he beat me in the SB of my trophy league.
For the record, I think Zeke is a terrible guy. That has no bearing on this case and how the NFL abused its process. Also, I do not want my start players getting hurt in a tackle for fantasy football purposes. Do you think Jerry Jones wants him making tackles in a blow out loss in week 2 of the NFL season?
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Mavis
Footballguy
From my understanding, the FAA and LMRA laws allow for the judge to be the final arbitrator in this case and the courts outcome will be the end result of this issue with the NFL.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
I mean that guy clearly is a Cowboys fan. If I was a Cowboy fan and a Zeke fan I'd want to see him not be lazy and his heart.
Plays like that stick in a coaches minds... Maybe he gets 1-2 less goal line touches next week who knows. A player can get injured doing anything. I guess I believe in Karma a bit more than you.
Mavis
Footballguy
That already happened week 1 when they threw it 3 times in a row from the GL. Maybe you give him GL touches, he wouldnt loaf.
But lets be honest, 9 touches? Thats the bigger crime. Karma works both ways, maybe next time the coach will give him the ball at the GL more if you want more out of your players. Maybe Zeke Remembered week 1 at the GL?
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wakelawyer
Footballguy
I'm not sure about the LMRA (NLRA?) but the FAA shouldn't permit the Court to modify the arbitration award. This isn't an issue like incorrectly adding up the judgment amount or ruling on an issue which should not have been addressed. If there is an issue with the process, the result should be vacation (negating) of the award which would put the parties back to where they were before the arbitration.
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