Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

RB Ezekiel Elliott, DAL


Faust

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, matttyl said:

Sorry I missed it before, it's a fast moving thread and I haven't kept completely up with it.  Anyway, if Zeke is out to get as much of his salary as he can - and it's looking like he's going to have to miss 6 games anyway, then he'd want to serve the suspension this year rather than next year (6/16s of $1.58m rather than 6/16s of $2.71m - $593k this year, or over a million if served next year). 

That's a damn good point.  I hadn't thought about the escalation of his salary from year 2 to year 3.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

While I agree, I will not ever try to predict a judge. I will talk about my beliefs, but guessing what a guy in a black robe will do is not wise.

The guys I shared the links to and even this guy, they all spin it their way a little bit. Cant trust Will Cain, Wallach or this guy regardless of if their right. Someone will be, but thats part of it in the guessing game.

This is for certain, we will know a lot about the process of this depending on how this judge rules. Means the judge thinks its enough up in the air to see time in court, doesnt mean that any party is right or wrong, but that there was enough reason to give pause that this was done correctly, CBA or not.

As some of us have contended, there are terms to procedure, and that Zeke did not get fair procedure. Who are any of us to question this judge in this case who has seen more info than any of us and has more legal expertise than 99.9% of us? I say this before his judgement, because I will also trusts the judges decision either way about how he rules on procedure.

:goodposting:Another damn good post, especially the bolded.

Edited by Bayhawks
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  2m2 minutes ago

Judge Mazzano: "Wouldn't you agree that the alleged procedural errors are done and there's nothing left to be deciced on those issues."

 

I suspect this was in response to the NFL's request that the matter be dismissed as not yet being ripe.  I read that to say the Judge is suggesting that, at least on the issue of alleged procedural errors (denying Elliott the right to face his accuser, examine the Commissioner, etc.), the issue before the Court was already ripe, and Henderson's pending ruling would have no effect upon that issue.

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  13s13 seconds ago

Kessler: "Not all cases require the right to confront the accuser, but this one does" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

This is not a quote from the Judge, but rather the argument by attorney Jeffrey Kessler on behalf of the NFLPA and Ezekiel Elliott.

 

1 hour ago, Mavis said:

Whoa, the judge statement seems huge now that I see it as a quote.

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  1m1 minute ago

Judge Mazzano: "Issue is not credibility, but fundamental fairness" (from Tuesday's hearing) h/t @Frank_Cawley

 

The issue before the Court is not one of credibility of the witness.  Instead, the issue before the Court is one of fundamental fairness.  The Court is not conducting a de novo review of the facts of the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

:goodposting:Another damn good post, especially the bolded.

I will amend that we can talk about what some of the quotes from the judge be shared above means, however...

Like it doesnt mean he will, but responding to the NFL lawyers the way he does and the NFL leaving and immediatley filing in NY does not look good for the NFL in my opinion as it sits now regarding the TRO.

Now, thats not to say Zeke will win the case and get 6 games back, but it does look like he will be able to play this season if we are guaging the can he play or will he play stock market if you will.

Ask you this, if you are a betting man and you have to put your house on a side based off how this judge rules (not the enitre case outcome)...

where u betting, does Zeke play this year? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, socrates said:

I suspect this was in response to the NFL's request that the matter be dismissed as not yet being ripe.  I read that to say the Judge is suggesting that, at least on the issue of alleged procedural errors (denying Elliott the right to face his accuser, examine the Commissioner, etc.), the issue before the Court was already ripe, and Henderson's pending ruling would have no effect upon that issue.

This is not a quote from the Judge, but rather the argument by attorney Jeffrey Kessler on behalf of the NFLPA and Ezekiel Elliott.

 

The issue before the Court is not one of credibility of the witness.  Instead, the issue before the Court is one of fundamental fairness.  The Court is not conducting a de novo review of the facts of the case.

Yes, thank you. This is what some of us have been saying.

This is about procedure.

Here is something for those who say the Brady case matters here, the Judge says you are not correct in any way.

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  15m15 minutes ago

Judge Mazzant: "None of the other cases have the facts we have here. Here there is a series of events I can't ignore"

 

Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley

The more differences Mazzant sees b/t this case and Brady, the less controlling or persuasive Brady becomes.

 

I'll say it now after that last tweet with a judge quote, Zeke is getting the TRO. I see why lawyers in the room agreed with that premise.

Edited by Mavis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These notes are great and full of Judge quotes. I think a TRO is a given at this point. Judge said the "standard for the TRO is not that high." 

 

Daniel Wallach‏ @WALLACHLEGAL  52m52 minutes ago

Here are @Frank_Cawley's hearing notes from Tuesday's TRO hearing before Judge Mazzant: http://bit.ly/2xdVSpe Transcript expected shortly.

 

Frank Cawley‏ @Frank_Cawley  57m57 minutes ago

This statement explains why NFL is focusing on jurisdiction. They want out of Mazzant's court b/c he sees this case as different than Brady

 

the lack of debate in this thread now tells me exactly what everyone thinks will happen and those who are 

Edited by Mavis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mavis said:

I will amend that we can talk about what some of the quotes from the judge be shared above means, however...

Like it doesnt mean he will, but responding to the NFL lawyers the way he does and the NFL leaving and immediatley filing in NY does not look good for the NFL in my opinion as it sits now regarding the TRO.

Now, thats not to say Zeke will win the case and get 6 games back, but it does look like he will be able to play this season if we are guaging the can he play or will he play stock market if you will.

Ask you this, if you are a betting man and you have to put your house on a side based off how this judge rules (not the enitre case outcome)...

where u betting, does Zeke play this year? 

Not a betting man, and if I were, this isn't something I'd bet on; it's too unclear.

The law is on the NFL's side; article 46 established that Goodell has pretty-much unquestioned authority to discipline players.  It's been challenged twice the last few years, and the players lost in each situation. 

The judge, however, could decide to ignore the law & past precedents & grant an injunction while the case is pending.  In that case, Zeke would still have to get the court proceedings to drag into 2019 to avoid missing time (regular season/playoffs) this year.  As matttyl pointed out, that will cost Zeke almost twice as much in salary.  You'd have to wonder if at some point his lawyers point out that it's likely that he will lose this case at some point & it'd be best (financially-speaking) for him to serve the games this year, rather than next.

Friday is a key day.  If Zeke is granted the injunction (barring something unforeseen happening), I think his FF owners are safe for at least 2 months.  After that time, it's very possible that his case could get resolved.  At that time, he could be lost for the FF playoff run/playoffs.

If I owned him in Fantasy, I'd hope for the injunction, hope for a good couple games, then I'd see if I could trade him to someone who was optimistic he'd play out the year.  It might cost me if he's available in the playoffs (& my thoughts might change by then), but that's an option I could see myself looking into.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I drafted him at 30 last night 3.6 and I'm not sure what I'm rooting for.  I think even if a TRO happens I'd want him suspended Weeks 8-13.  Back for FF playoffs and you get him to start your season.  I guess it doesn't matter but that would at least allow me a few weeks to aid the RB depth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, matttyl said:

Sorry I missed it before, it's a fast moving thread and I haven't kept completely up with it.  Anyway, if Zeke is out to get as much of his salary as he can - and it's looking like he's going to have to miss 6 games anyway, then he'd want to serve the suspension this year rather than next year (6/16s of $1.58m rather than 6/16s of $2.71m - $593k this year, or over a million if served next year). 

I don't think it is about the money for Zeke. If it were he wouldn't be paying a boatload of money to high priced attorneys to fight this. He'd take the punishment and move on and only miss one divisional game between weeks 2-8. I think it is more about trying to fight what he perceives as the unfairness of it all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

I drafted him at 30 last night 3.6 and I'm not sure what I'm rooting for.  I think even if a TRO happens I'd want him suspended Weeks 8-13.  Back for FF playoffs and you get him to start your season.  I guess it doesn't matter but that would at least allow me a few weeks to aid the RB depth.

Feel like the TRO being granted could open up a can of worms and this thing takes until the offseason to get settled.

Would the NFL really want to upset the competitive balance by removing Zeke in the middle of the season? Just deal with it in the offseason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, beerbuff said:

I don't think it is about the money for Zeke. If it were he wouldn't be paying a boatload of money to high priced attorneys to fight this. He'd take the punishment and move on and only miss one divisional game between weeks 2-8. I think it is more about trying to fight what he perceives as the unfairness of it all. 

Honest question - is he paying for the lawyers or is the NFLPA doing so on his behalf?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, kyoun1e said:

Feel like the TRO being granted could open up a can of worms and this thing takes until the offseason to get settled.

Would the NFL really want to upset the competitive balance by removing Zeke in the middle of the season? Just deal with it in the offseason.

And let the luck of the schedule draw fix it in the off-season?

NFL can look good by putting Zeke on the exempt list, he's getting paid while this all gets worked out.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

And let the luck of the schedule draw fix it in the off-season?

NFL can look good by putting Zeke on the exempt list, he's getting paid while this all gets worked out.

 

Exempt list is not happening, I cant find the link... but someone of the good follows above said any judge in the world would be furious and may grant an injunction on that without filings even needed. Goodell doing so would not likely happen based off the judge embarrassing him more. Also, suspension has been handed down i think the writer might have misjudged that one. Not sure.

Edited by Mavis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Mavis said:

Exempt list is not happening, I cant find the link... but someone of the good follows above said any judge in the world would be furious and may grant an injunction on that without filings even needed. Goodell doing so would not likely happen based off the judge embarrassing him more. 

Thank You, Why has he used it in the past? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, The General said:

Today we find out if our fantasy football0 lotto ticket hits.

Not necessarily.  The Judge may issue a Temporary Restraining Order today and set a hearing for the next couple of weeks to consider a Preliminary Injunction.  We may not get much clarity today on how the rest of the season plays out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to start week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

True.  But having him the full 16 games would be pretty decent too.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, CalvinJ55 said:

True.  But having him the full 16 games would be pretty decent too.

That would be neat.

I'll hang out here all day and think I'm a lawyer.  Hoping this ticket cashes as I wasn't able to back Zeke up with anything decent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

That would be the absolute worst scenario for Elliott owners.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

I for one drafted Zeke for the fantasy playoffs. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for this whole thing to get put to rest and his suspension start week 2. At least it wouldn't drag on to start week 10 or 12 which would be pretty ####ty. 

I drafted Zeke on the swell of positivity thinking that his suspension would get overturned.  Always knew that I'd have to be prepared to deal with 6 weeks without a top draft pick, but never thought it would come to reality.  Here's hoping there's some better news in the wake of a disappointing Thursday night if you're invested in Pats/Brady/Gronk in any way.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

The way I understand it, things have to work out pretty perfect for that to happen. 

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, socrates said:

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

apparently "the odds of that happening are looking pretty solid" :shrug:

Color me skeptical

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, socrates said:

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

Yeah seems like he has to go 4/4 - A suspension is happening this year, When?

Can they still just agree to a reduction of 3 and drop it? Or is that out of the water at this point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, socrates said:

It would mean that (1) Judge Mazzant issues an injunction (not just a TRO); (2) the NFL does not have that injunction overturned this season on appeal; (3) the Commissioner does not (or cannot) put Elliott on the Exempt List. and (4) the Court does not make a ruling against Elliott on the underlying case this season.

If you have been following this closely, you know that (2), (3) and (4) are an uphill battle for the NFL.  Yes, getting the TRO is just step one and we need the injunction.  But getting the TRO is very likely right now.  So if the odds of an injunction are even at 30%, that's an optimistic enough situation for me to be pulling for that to get Zeke for 16 games, rather than just throwing in the towel and hoping for an immediate suspension.  

Don't get me wrong, Zeke will serve this suspension sooner or later.  But if we get the TRO, the odds of Zeke playing 16 games swing to our favor.

Edited by CalvinJ55
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, beerbuff said:

I don't think it is about the money for Zeke. If it were he wouldn't be paying a boatload of money to high priced attorneys to fight this. He'd take the punishment and move on and only miss one divisional game between weeks 2-8. I think it is more about trying to fight what he perceives as the unfairness of it all. 

I doubt he's picking up the tab for the lawyers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CalvinJ55 said:

Just my personal opinion, but I think the lawyers that we're in the courtroom for the last hearing in Texas are the best sources that have currently given any incite.  

Just odd that you'd say what you said... given reliable sources it looks likely to happen... but then it's your opinion...
Of course Zeke's attorneys are going to paint a rosy picture. I don't know of any attorneys that have zero skin in the game, know all of the information in this case, and have offered incite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

Just odd that you'd say what you said... given reliable sources it looks likely to happen... but then it's your opinion...
Of course Zeke's attorneys are going to paint a rosy picture. I don't know of any attorneys that have zero skin in the game, know all of the information in this case, and have offered incite.

My exact words we're "Depending on what sources you think are most credible".  Which of course means that it's my opinion who I find most credible.  So it's not at all odd that I would say what I said.

Nothing I'm speaking of refers to Zeke's attorneys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

Yeah seems like he has to go 4/4 - A suspension is happening this year, When?

Can they still just agree to a reduction of 3 and drop it? Or is that out of the water at this point?

True, Elliott must go 4/4, but if Judge Mazzant issues a Preliminary Injunction (some say this is a distinct possibility based on the Judge's remarks at Tuesday's hearing), you could frame the other points as follows:  For the NFL to successfully impose its suspension against Elliott this season, they would have to either (1) appeal (almost certain the NFL would appeal) and have the appeal heard this season (likely) and have the Court of Appeals stay the injunction; or (2) have the case heard by the Court this season (that could take several months, so not very likely) and the Court rule against Elliott.

The third point is the Commissioner's Exempt List:  If Judge Mazzant issues a Preliminary Injunction, and the Commissioner exercises this power, Elliott could (and would) go back to Judge Mazzant and ask the Judge to rule on that as well.  I cannot imagine a judge looking too favorably upon any action which tries to bypass the judge's earlier ruling.  Judge Mazzant may try to address this preemptively if he grants an injunction.

To your final point, I don't believe there is anything which would restrict the parties from reaching an accord and dismissing their cases (remember, the NFL also filed).  Judges typically favor the parties reaching an agreement.  Both sides have dug their heels in now, so that seems unlikely.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, CalvinJ55 said:

If you have been following this closely, you know that (2), (3) and (4) are an uphill battle for the NFL.  Yes, getting the TRO is just step one and we need the injunction.  But getting the TRO is very likely right now.  So if the odds of an injunction are even at 30%, that's an optimistic enough situation for me to be pulling for that to get Zeke for 16 games, rather than just throwing in the towel and hoping for an immediate suspension.  

Don't get me wrong, Zeke will serve this suspension sooner or later.  But if we get the TRO, the odds of Zeke playing 16 games swing to our favor.

At the same time, (1) is an even bigger uphill battle for Zeke.  And, IF (1) happens, it means that the judge likely ignored salient aspects of labor law, which then makes (2) less of an uphill battle for the NFL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CalvinJ55 said:

My exact words we're "Depending on what sources you think are most credible".  Which of course means that it's my opinion who I find most credible.  So it's not at all odd that I would say what I said.

Nothing I'm speaking of refers to Zeke's attorneys.

right, so you formed your opinion on who you find most credible, and I asked what sources those were in hopes of a link or something for me to educate myself on those "credible sources" to form my own opinion, but all you said was it's your opinion and referenced some mysterious attorneys that offered some good incite. still waiting if you have some information to pass along.

I suppose I could say, I have some pretty great information that says Zekes suspension is actually going to be lengthened. Based on credible information from those who know details. It's very likely to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Bayhawks said:

At the same time, (1) is an even bigger uphill battle for Zeke.  And, IF (1) happens, it means that the judge likely ignored salient aspects of labor law, which then makes (2) less of an uphill battle for the NFL.

(1) may or may not be a bigger uphill battle than the others at this point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Joe Bryant changed the title to RB Ezekiel Elliott, DAL

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...