What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

RB Ezekiel Elliott, NE (4 Viewers)

McFadden is much better in the passing game.  People act like he was out because of an ACL or something.  It was an elbow.  He's only 30 with low miles.  I would expect him to be in shape and be ready to go.  Cowboys were prepping for this.  IMO Alf will be the back up as he has a different skill set than either Zeke or McFadden.  But he's the backup, change of pace, every 3rd series guy either way.  My 2 cents.

 
Can you imagine this scenario...

Elliott prevails in court and has the suspension invalidated due to the process issues.

That throws it back into the NFL's court for a do-over on the entire process.

This time they do everything 100% by the book, get all their T's crossed and I's dotted... and decide on a suspension LONGER than 6 games.

What would stop them?  What could/would Elliott argue then?

 
I think the fact they excluded the notes from the interviews from being given to Zeke and the investigator's recommendation from being submitted to Goodell, and the lead investigator not even testifying to Goodell, are all process related arguments.  The CBA specifically states that the documentation needs to be presented 3 days before the hearing.  The league clearly did not do that.  It seems to me like a slam dunk violation of the agreed upon process.

Now if the league follows all that process, Goodell can come to whatever decision he wants and there is no judicial review.
"Indeed, as argued by top NFL lawyer Paul Clement, Article 46 only imposes one procedural requirement regarding the arbitration hearing: prior to the hearing, the two sides must exchange copies of relevant exhibits (pieces of evidence). That’s it. There’s no requirement that certain witnesses must testify. Likewise, Article 46 doesn’t compel the arbitrator—who is Goodell by default but he can delegate the responsibility to someone of his choosing, such as Henderson—to examine certain pieces of evidence."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/12/ezekiel-elliott-dallas-cowboys-suspension-legal-options

I'm conflicted about Zeke's suspension.  On one hand, I love watching the Salty Haters cry.  On the other hand, I'm sad that I don't get to play vs. the Zeke owner in my league in the next 6 weeks. 

:lmao:

 
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/09/14/offensive-coordinator-scott-linehan-explains-cowboys-went-rb-alfred-morris-darren-mcfadden

FRISCO -- The Cowboys aren't down on running back Darren McFadden, offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said Thursday. That's not why he wasn't Ezekiel Elliott's backup Sunday in the opener against the Giants.

McFadden had been the No. 2 back throughout training camp and the preseason, but the Cowboys made him inactive Sunday and instead had Alfred Morris behind Elliott.

Last week in practice, the Cowboys were getting Alfred Morris ready to start if Elliott had been suspended. Instead, Elliott had his six-game suspension blocked by an injunction order.

"We were preparing Alfred before the thing with Zeke came final for the week," Linehan said. "He had taken a lot of reps with the first group to be honest with you, and we felt like he had earned that at that point.

"They're in competition, really good competition each week. We love Darren. We love them both."

Linehan said Morris impressed the Cowboys in training camp.

"As it went on, we felt like he was earning his way based on how he played in the preseason," Linehan said. "It didn't have anything to do with we're happy with one or the other. We had to pick one."

Morris said he's sure the decision for the coaches "was a tough one."

"We all did such a good job and that's what we always talk about, making it hard on them," Morris said. "I don't know if it's going to be a week-to-week thing or what, but we'll continue to make it hard on them regardless."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ezekiel Elliott’s Texas lawsuit “not over” yet

The victory secured by the NFL in the Ezekiel Elliottcase on Thursday feels final, even if it isn’t.

It’s not final for multiple reasons. First, the NFL’s lawsuit aimed at defending the six-game suspension remains pending in New York. There, a judge could still delay the suspension via a preliminary injunction while the litigation proceeds.

Second, the lawsuit filed by Elliott in Texas is, we’re told, “not over.”

As one source with knowledge of the situation explains it to PFT, Elliott could pursue various strategies before the federal court in Texas or the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, which issued Thursday’s decision dismissing the case because it was not filed on a timely basis. For example, Elliott could file a petition for a rehearing, either by the three-judge panel that issued Thursday’s ruling or the full collection of Fifth Circuit judges.

By rule, Elliott and the NFLPA have 14 days to file a petition for a rehearing. Which means that, during this window, the NFL probably should reconsider its position that the Elliott suspension is immediately effective. Doing so could risk incurring the ire of the Fifth Circuit through yet another skirmish that could emerge as soon as today.

 
... and I believe that you were only able to grab McFadden off of the wire. 

Really, they would want to keep a 30 year old RB inactive for nearly 2 seasons, just to keep him fresh and save him from injury so they could bring him in and feature him whenever Zeke is unavailable? When has anything like that ever happened in the history of the NFL? You don't think they would want to keep him in the mix, give him a handful of carries to knock the rust off and get him up to game speed? They don't pay guys to have them sit at home on game day if they feel that person is better than the person that is playing. You always want your top backup with you on game day. You want to maximize each touch that any player has, give your team the best chance to win.... also, it isn't as if injuries don't happen and the backup often steps in to carry the load during the game. The OC clearly stated that they were preparing Morris to start week 1 of this season.
I don't know which guy will be the guy, but the "keeping McFadden in bubble wrap theory" as to why Morris was playing over him is laughable. If the coaching staff was so worried that McFadden may get hurt getting 4-5 carries per game, how on Earth would they think he could handle the load during Zeke's suspension?

 
Translated - Jerry told them you better not let McFadden get hurt until we hear about the suspension one way or another.  
You realize that entire article is explaining that Morris won the backup job over DMC in the preseason, right? Like, Linehan literally says that. 

 
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/09/14/offensive-coordinator-scott-linehan-explains-cowboys-went-rb-alfred-morris-darren-mcfadden

Linehan said Morris impressed the Cowboys in training camp.

"As it went on, we felt like he was earning his way based on how he played in the preseason," Linehan said. "It didn't have anything to do with we're happy with one or the other. We had to pick one."
I just don't see how this is anything more than a soundbite considering Morris played in the 3rd and 4th quarter against practice squad type guys.

There's also an interview with McFadden prior or just after week 1, where they ask him if he's ever going to be involved.  His answer was that he wasn't sure, "How or when"... not if, but how or when. 

 
Is it fair to say that neither Morris or McFadden will be garnering 88% of the offensive snaps like Elliott was?

And so it's likely that whatever split winds up happening should the suspension hold, will likely involve an RBBC which means RB2 max value?

 
You realize that entire article is explaining that Morris won the backup job over DMC in the preseason, right? Like, Linehan literally says that. 
How is that even possible?  In the 3rd preseason game (their 4th was cancelled) Zeke started and played 1 series.  Then McFadden came in for a couple drives.  Then Ronnie Hillman got play in the first half.  Morris wasn't in until after halftime. 

 
Is it fair to say that neither Morris or McFadden will be garnering 88% of the offensive snaps like Elliott was?

And so it's likely that whatever split winds up happening should the suspension hold, will likely involve an RBBC which means RB2 max value?
The Cowboys are known to keep one back on the field as much as possible. So, let's say Morris starts and produces well... I don't see any reason why they would mix anyone else in more than just to spell him, or possibly some obvious passing situations. BTW, it's silly when people pretend like Morris just absolutely can't catch the ball. That isn't how he's normally used, and obviously isn't his specialty. However, nobody is asking him to fill James White's role in NE. He might see a few passes game thrown his way... I'm sure he'll be able to handle it.

 
So the court basically threw out the temporary injunction because it was asked for prematurely? Sounds like Zeke can re-file his injunction request in Dallas or New York. 

Are there reasons to believe he won't be granted another injunction? I get that in NY the league will cite the Brady outcome, but Elliott can still try to argue unfairness, improper arbitration protocols, etc. 

i think we see Zeke suiting up next week. 


Sounds like Zeke has a pretty good case on the grounds of "fundamental fairness".

Under Section 10(a)(3) of the Federal Arbitration Act ("FAA), federal courts can vacate an arbitration award where "the arbitrators were guilty of [any] misconduct . . . by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced, thereby amount[ing] to a denial of [a party's right] to fundamental fairness of the arbitration proceeding." Tempo Shain Corp. v. Bertek, Inc., 120 F.3d 16, 19-20 (2d Cir. 1997). Refusing to hear evidence "pertinent and material to the controversy" is one of the classic grounds for challenging an arbitration ruling on "fundamental fairness" grounds.
Brady won in SDNY on "fundamental fairness". They weren't able to cross-examine Jeff Pash who was one of the lead investigators. That decision was overturned by CA2 on the grounds that Pash was a "collateral" witness. They never shut the door on the idea that violation of "fundamental fairness" wasn't good enough to vacate the arbitration award.

The difference here is that Zeke's team wasn't able to interview his accuser and/or see the notes from her many interviews with the NFL's team. This is quite a different story than not being able to interview a "collateral" witness like Pash. You can talk all you want about Goodell's absolute power as dictated by the CBA but "fundamental fairness" in labor arbitration is definitely a thing and the NFL could lose on this point.

 
How is that even possible?  In the 3rd preseason game (their 4th was cancelled) Zeke started and played 1 series.  Then McFadden came in for a couple drives.  Then Ronnie Hillman got play in the first half.  Morris wasn't in until after halftime. 
You realize that they work with these guys every day in practice, right? Also, Dallas played in 4 preseason games... their 5th was cancelled. They played in the HOF game.

 
You realize that they work with these guys every day in practice, right? Also, Dallas played in 4 preseason games... their 5th was cancelled. They played in the HOF game.
Cool, thanks, I stand corrected on the games.  

I do realize they work with these guys everyday, then what we see on the field is a result of that.  I can't imagine the what the Cowboy coaches saw in Morris after he was playing deep into the 4th quarter with nobodies in their final preseason game. Because up until that point he was the 3rd string guy you throw out there late in the 4th quarter of your last preseason game.  Now here we are entering week six and he has.... 8 carries. 

 
Cool, thanks, I stand corrected on the games.  

I do realize they work with these guys everyday, then what we see on the field is a result of that.  I can't imagine the what the Cowboy coaches saw in Morris after he was playing deep into the 4th quarter with nobodies in their final preseason game. Because up until that point he was the 3rd string guy you throw out there late in the 4th quarter of your last preseason game.  Now here we are entering week six and he has.... 8 carries
One was a 70 yarder. How many does McFadden have again?

 
Is it fair to say that neither Morris or McFadden will be garnering 88% of the offensive snaps like Elliott was?

And so it's likely that whatever split winds up happening should the suspension hold, will likely involve an RBBC which means RB2 max value?
I think so. And I think that's what's relevant at this point. Both DMC and Morris are rostered in every league by now, so arguments on who's gonna get the bulk of the work are somewhat moot. The fact is, we don't know and won't know until next week at the earliest.

I own DMC in 2 places and AlMo in none, but I wouldn't start either Week 7 even if Zeke is out. There's way too wide a range of outcomes to count on either as a startable asset out of the gate.

 
The Cowboys are known to keep one back on the field as much as possible. So, let's say Morris starts and produces well... I don't see any reason why they would mix anyone else in more than just to spell him, or possibly some obvious passing situations. BTW, it's silly when people pretend like Morris just absolutely can't catch the ball. That isn't how he's normally used, and obviously isn't his specialty. However, nobody is asking him to fill James White's role in NE. He might see a few passes game thrown his way... I'm sure he'll be able to handle it.
I think where that has historically been most applicable under Garrett is when the Cowboys had true bellcows (Murray/Elliott) and/or a dearth of talent behind one capable runner (McFadden in 2015).

 
One thing Ill say as a guy who owned zeke but not either of morris/mcfadden (used bench spots for other guys like ellington, mckinnon, etc.)

Morris looks WAY skinnier than ever before-- I'm guessing thats by design. Quicker burst, better feet.

What does Mcfadden look like? I have no idea

 
Also--- if the bubble wrap theory is true.

WHY would Dallas subject Mcfadden to preseason carries but not regular season carries?? Wasn't the suspension stuff looming even than??

 
themeistersinger said:
I think the fact they excluded the notes from the interviews from being given to Zeke and the investigator's recommendation from being submitted to Goodell, and the lead investigator not even testifying to Goodell, are all process related arguments.  The CBA specifically states that the documentation needs to be presented 3 days before the hearing.  The league clearly did not do that.  It seems to me like a slam dunk violation of the agreed upon process.

Now if the league follows all that process, Goodell can come to whatever decision he wants and there is no judicial review.
Pretty sure that the CBA states the documentation used in the disciplinary process needs to be presented.  Since Goodell didn't use that documentation in deciding the punishment, I'm not sure that that documentation needed to be presented.  The court could interpret it otherwise, but I'm not sure if they will or not.

 
Also--- if the bubble wrap theory is true.

WHY would Dallas subject Mcfadden to preseason carries but not regular season carries?? Wasn't the suspension stuff looming even than??
while I have no factual basis on this (& assuming the bubble wrap theory), maybe it was due to the fact they assumed Zeke would have the 6-game suspension and they wanted to see what they had in him. 

Once the TRO was in place, there was no need to test fate. 

Again, just throwing a possible idea out there. 

 
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL

BREAKING: NFLPA will be filing a petition for rehearing with the Fifth Circuit in the Ezekiel Elliott case

3:50 PM - Oct 13, 2017

[Pelissero] Ezekiel Elliott's legal team informed a New York judge today it intends to ask for a rehearing before the full 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Three-judge panel from 5th Circuit was split yesterday. Team Zeke trying to keep the fight in Texas/New Orleans. NFL wants it in New York.

https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/918944255149772801

 
Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL

BREAKING: NFLPA will be filing a petition for rehearing with the Fifth Circuit in the Ezekiel Elliott case

3:50 PM - Oct 13, 2017

[Pelissero] Ezekiel Elliott's legal team informed a New York judge today it intends to ask for a rehearing before the full 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Three-judge panel from 5th Circuit was split yesterday. Team Zeke trying to keep the fight in Texas/New Orleans. NFL wants it in New York.

https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/918944255149772801
Any lawyer types know what this does to the timeline of Zeke playing?

 
Cowboys.com's Bryan Broaddus expects Darren McFadden to be the lead back with Ezekiel Elliott suspended.

Alfred Morris has been the No. 2 back, but McFadden is a favorite of owner Jerry Jones. McFadden offers more of an Elliott skill set and could move ahead of Morris with Dallas on their bye. Morris should still be the favorite to start if Elliott's suspension holds, but it's far more a lock.

 
As a Cowboys fan....

-DMC doesn't push the pile like Alf. 

-Alf has worked on his hands this past offseason. 

-I listen to 3 Dallas podcasts every single day and for months they all seem to think DMC will take over if Zeke is out. 

-They have even stated that Alf would have been cut if not for the looming suspension. 

Completely unrelated...For two seasons  I've been terrified of Alf getting cut and going to the Packers or worse, back to the skins.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Roto: The NFLPA will ask for a full panel rehearing of Ezekiel Elliott's case with the Circuit Court of Appeals.

Elliott could also get his injunction stayed while the request is considered. It means he could potentially play as the the legal process plays out. There's no guarantee Elliott's appeal is granted after the same court just ruled against him. As of now, Elliott is set to be suspended through Week 13.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A petition for a rehearing en banc "is to be used only for cases involving questions of exceptional importance or to secure or maintain uniformity of the court's decisions," according to the 5th Circuit's website, which also says that the court "is fully justified in imposing sanctions on its own initiative for petitions which have little merit."
Errr... this has a chance of being rejected immediately based on the wording.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TheDirtyWord said:
I think where that has historically been most applicable under Garrett is when the Cowboys had true bellcows (Murray/Elliott) and/or a dearth of talent behind one capable runner (McFadden in 2015).
If they feel that Morris is their best RB behind Elliott.. as they have stated. I really don't see the reason why would all of the sudden choose to start rotating him with other RBs who they don't feel give them the best chance to succeed. Morris is definitely built to carry the ball 20 plus times a game. That's exactly what Dallas wants. He also thrived in the read option game with RGIII. They like to run that with Prescott as well.

 
What's Zeke's dynasty PPR value now? I was just offered Julio & Gio for Zeke & Alfred. I'd be left with Miller, Lynch, Ingram, Collins & McGuire at RB. I am thinking counter asking for Kamara instead of Gio.

 
Errr... this has a chance of being rejected based on the wording.
Yeah, I'd be shocked if they took in en banc.  But this might allow Zeke to play while they decide whether or not to take it - might be only one week or whatever.  I think they'd have better luck refiling.  The TRO was reversed only because the filing was too early.  The opinion did not discuss the merits of either the NFL side or Zeke's side, as far as I could tell.  Only the dissenting judge discussed the actual case, and he seemed to take Zeke's side.

 
This could go any number of ways, but the only real definitive thing we have to go on is Morris being active on game days over McFadden (explained in the article floating around). It seems to confirm Morris simply beat out McFadden.

I can't buy they're saving McFadden. I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely, IMO. In fact, it was mentioned that "McFadden took the news like a pro" so it doesn't sound like McFadden Is being saved.

That said, either one could end up being the feature back, but my suspicion is Morris will get first crack at it. He looks like a comlpletely different player than last season, reminiscent of his early days in Washington.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elliott owners should hope he starts his suspension now so you can have him back for your league playoffs should you make the playoffs without him.  If he plays a few more games then gets suspended, you will not have him when you need him most.  

 
yep - In my case I don't even need another back but I figured McFadden is better off on my team than my competition.  They can keep scrounging
This. I'd rather have him sitting on my bench than beating me, so I snagged McFadden. If he does nothing, oh well, I dropped LAC's backup RB to grab him. 

 
Anybody else not worried about this new suspension and think this will play out just like the last?
I'm throwing low ball offers at Zeke owners in redraft to see what happens.  I'll take a chance the suspension not happening and if it does I'll have him for the playoffs.

 
Elliott owners should hope he starts his suspension now so you can have him back for your league playoffs should you make the playoffs without him.  If he plays a few more games then gets suspended, you will not have him when you need him most.  
True. But at least we'd be able to drop him and free up that roster spot. 

 
I'm throwing low ball offers at Zeke owners in redraft to see what happens.  I'll take a chance the suspension not happening and if it does I'll have him for the playoffs.
One concern with that is if he is able to delay the suspension for a week or two by  asking for this en banc hearing, them trying to get a TRO in SDNY, he won’t be eligible for the ff playoffs.  His chances of getting the suspension put off for the rest of the season isn’t 0%, but it is not as likely as it used to be.  Trading for him is a risk; if you have to pay full value to get him, it might not be worth it.

 
So... if this holds EE would return Week 13? Would anyone advocate trading for him, assuming the owner doesn't have a DMC/Alf backup?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One concern with that is if he is able to delay the suspension for a week or two by  asking for this en banc hearing, them trying to get a TRO in SDNY, he won’t be eligible for the ff playoffs.  His chances of getting the suspension put off for the rest of the season isn’t 0%, but it is not as likely as it used to be.  Trading for him is a risk; if you have to pay full value to get him, it might not be worth it.
I'm willing to take the chance on that.  Especially when I'm offering players that I usually keep on my bench but could be started.  Offered a guy in one league Sneed and offered Gore in another.  The Sneed offer isn't terrible but I know the Gore offer is pretty bad.  Both teams that have him are already struggling so they may consider.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top