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RB Melvin Gordon, BAL (3 Viewers)

Walking Boot said:
:rolleyes:

Typical guppy.

Waaah, waaah, you cry, this game is too hard!

Sorry son, but I don't have to dumb down The Sport just so noobs like you have a chance at keeping up.

I play in a $4,000 entry, Super-WCOFF, triple-reverse, double down, mirror league with a modified PPFDR base 8 scoring system, and we just held our draft in July. For the 2023 season. You think Bo Nix getting the start in Auburn is news? I drafted him after studying up on him, after he signed his letter of intent, last year. You think that maybe going with a WR in the first two rounds instead of back-to-back RBs is somehow new thinking in fantasy? Well, do you have the balls to do what I did this year when I didn't take my first RB until the fourth round (Trenton Simpson, Mallard Creek High Schol in Charlotte NC)? You've probably never even heard of Julian Fleming, Jermaine Burton, or Desmond Demas, yet not only did I draft them this year to form my future WR corps, I've also started referring to them by fantasy board nicknames (JFlem, JerBur & DoubleDesmond). Hell, guys like you are going to be the poor schmucks who are searching this board five years from now for info on some great RB you just heard of out of the middle of some swamp in Florida, and the FBG search result box is going to come up with this very post, where I brag about nabbing Demarkcus Bowman of the Lakeland Dreadnaughts at the 25.32/26.01 turn two full months before he lit up Clearwater American Collegiate Academy for 2 TDs (1 rushing, 1 receiving) in a 55-13 win, or Bradenton Manatee, a playoff team last season, for 186 rushing yards and a TD in just the first half of a 45-0 rout. You'll be wondering about his durability and I'll remember a phone call I made back when you were just hearing the name "Darwin Thompson" for the first time to the kid's doctor over at the Watson Clinic attached to Lakeland Hospital about the sprain he suffered in his left ankle in 2018.

Let me give you a tip, IT = INFO, and there's no "expires by" date on it.

:football:
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I wanna get in on some JerBur and DoubleDesmond......show me the ways bro!

 
simey said:
I wasn't complaining. I was simply stating why we do our draft every year the weekend before labor day weekend. Not one person in our league complains about when we do our draft. It is a time we can all see each other in person, have fun, and draft our players. This year was actually very sentimental. One of the teams has two owners, and one of the owners unexpectedly died at the end of June. There were tears, and laughter too reminiscing on stories of our dear departed long time friend. It is more about being together than it is getting the best players. We don't get to see the guys that live out of state (Florida, Georgia, and Virginia) often, so it is nice that we get together same time every year here in NC. Anyway, this thread is about Melvin Gordon, and I didn't draft him. 
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Wasn't saying you were just saying those acting like getting out of family stuff it could be worse. You could have to deal with different time zones by 14 hours 

 
Jeremy Fowler✔@JFowlerESPN

Chargers running back Melvin Gordon does not plan to report for Week 1 as he sorts through potential trade options during his holdout, according to a source. My understanding is only a new development would bring him in.

338

2:21 PM - Sep 2, 2019
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:lmao: at the bolded

 
why is the media so terrible at covering this story? they totally dropped the ball on the bell story last year.

math should easily be able to explain what is going on.

If gordon doesnt play (or doesnt play until game 11... again media, what is the minimum Gordon needs to do this season... we shouldnt have to guess at this) he loses $5.6M in 2019 salary, but will then either be franchised or a free agent next year... if franchised and he still doesnt sign/play then he loses another $10M (guessing here) of tag money in 2020.... IF he is an age 28 FA in 2021, he would what command $20M+ guarenteed plus some non-zero 2021 salary? what if he basically doesnt play this year and then doesnt get tagged next year? then he'd be getting $20M guarenteed next year... which would more than makeup for not getting $5.6M this season.

i dont blame the guy for not playing this year... $5.6M doesnt seem to be worth injury and possible losss of a much bigger 2020 payday... i also understand the chargers position... they feel they can win without him so they aren't in a hurry to give up more salary and cap spce

 
iamkoza said:
why is the media so terrible at covering this story? they totally dropped the ball on the bell story last year.

math should easily be able to explain what is going on.

If gordon doesnt play (or doesnt play until game 11... again media, what is the minimum Gordon needs to do this season... we shouldnt have to guess at this) he loses $5.6M in 2019 salary, but will then either be franchised or a free agent next year... if franchised and he still doesnt sign/play then he loses another $10M (guessing here) of tag money in 2020.... IF he is an age 28 FA in 2021, he would what command $20M+ guarenteed plus some non-zero 2021 salary? what if he basically doesnt play this year and then doesnt get tagged next year? then he'd be getting $20M guarenteed next year... which would more than makeup for not getting $5.6M this season.

i dont blame the guy for not playing this year... $5.6M doesnt seem to be worth injury and possible losss of a much bigger 2020 payday... i also understand the chargers position... they feel they can win without him so they aren't in a hurry to give up more salary and cap spce
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A lot of folks came down hard on Bell...but the guaranteed money he signed for in 2019, was a lot more than the franchise tag in 2018.  The argument was that he’d never make up the ability to earn that money.  But in reality, only Bell/Gordon really understand the risk/peril...it’s a pretty significant bet to play.  And for Gordon?  $5.6M is a pittance...

 
iamkoza said:
why is the media so terrible at covering this story? they totally dropped the ball on the bell story last year.

math should easily be able to explain what is going on.

If gordon doesnt play (or doesnt play until game 11... again media, what is the minimum Gordon needs to do this season... we shouldnt have to guess at this) he loses $5.6M in 2019 salary, but will then either be franchised or a free agent next year... if franchised and he still doesnt sign/play then he loses another $10M (guessing here) of tag money in 2020.... IF he is an age 28 FA in 2021, he would what command $20M+ guarenteed plus some non-zero 2021 salary? what if he basically doesnt play this year and then doesnt get tagged next year? then he'd be getting $20M guarenteed next year... which would more than makeup for not getting $5.6M this season.

i dont blame the guy for not playing this year... $5.6M doesnt seem to be worth injury and possible losss of a much bigger 2020 payday... i also understand the chargers position... they feel they can win without him so they aren't in a hurry to give up more salary and cap spce
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Pretty much right on. There’s an inherent conflict of interest that’s particular to RBs in last year of contract. Team wants to use as much as possible not really caring about well being much other than to get to end of season. Player has to do everything to make it to end of year healthy to get that guaranteed money.

 
Making sure I understand the news yesterday about the team no longer negotiating....did they take back any and all offers they made to him (the deal similar to Freeman's deal that had been reported), or did they say "this is the best we can do, take it or leave it, we're not negotiating this anymore."  Are they now forcing him to play under the 5th year option or find a trade that they'll accept?

 
matttyl said:
Making sure I understand the news yesterday about the team no longer negotiating....did they take back any and all offers they made to him (the deal similar to Freeman's deal that had been reported), or did they say "this is the best we can do, take it or leave it, we're not negotiating this anymore."  Are they now forcing him to play under the 5th year option or find a trade that they'll accept?
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They appear to have said they were done discussing extensions until after the year, but that's a public stance.  If he came back and offered a deal they liked it's not like they'd say no.  

 
matttyl said:
Making sure I understand the news yesterday about the team no longer negotiating....did they take back any and all offers they made to him (the deal similar to Freeman's deal that had been reported), or did they say "this is the best we can do, take it or leave it, we're not negotiating this anymore."  Are they now forcing him to play under the 5th year option or find a trade that they'll accept?
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Los Angeles Chargers end Melvin Gordon extension talks

The Los Angeles Chargers today announced through general manager Tom Telesco that the organization will no longer entertain contract negotiations with their star running back Melvin Gordon until the conclusion of the 2019 NFL season.

According to Gilbert Manzano, Telesco stated that “with the regular season now here, we have informed his representatives that discussions regarding contract extensions will be postponed until the conclusion of this season. So when or if Melvin reports, he’ll play this season on his current contract.”
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I think the team will stand firm on this for multiple reasons:

  1. Prior to extending Pouncey today, the team had less than $4M in available cap space. They likely need to reserve most or all of that amount for IR/injury replacements in season. They may have cleared $2M to $3M in Pouncey's deal, terms have not been made available. But it would be a challenge to give Gordon what he wants without raising his cap number this season, which means it might force some restructuring/extensions for other players.
  2. The team has a string of 1st round picks coming up on 5th year option seasons - Bosa, Mike Williams, James, and Tillery. They have to be concerned about precedent, especially since they almost certainly see those players as being more difficult to replace.
  3. The team cannot pay everybody like a top 5 player. Just within the next two years, these guys reach free agency: Rivers, Bosa, Ingram, Okung, Pouncey, Henry, Allen, Hayward, and King. Most or all of those players would be more difficult to replace than Gordon.
 
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Apparently one team has been in preliminary trade talks with the Chargers about Melvin. Tampa? Not sure they can afford to pay him though. 

 
Just had a non-ppr 12 team draft where I caved in and drafted him on the 7th pick of the 7th round.  I was thinking that the risk vs reward made sense there—but now I’m not sure.  I’m kinda wishing I could have just kept him on a do not draft list.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Just had a non-ppr 12 team draft where I caved in and drafted him on the 7th pick of the 7th round.  I was thinking that the risk vs reward made sense there—but now I’m not sure.  I’m kinda wishing I could have just kept him on a do not draft list.  
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I just took him @ 8.10. at that point, o had many of my starters, all but a QB, so what the hell? Maybe he shows up by week 4. Maybe he gets traded. Maybe he continues to sit and it didn't cost me much.

 
Duke Johnson sold for a 3rd round pick in return, and he had just recently signed a deal saying he is only worth around 5 million per year.  

 
Almost every time a quality player is traded there will be a point right before the trade where they say a trade isn't likely to happen.  The Chargers are going to try to maximize compensation and any trade partner is going to want to minimize compensation.  My guess is the Chargers are actually seeking a 2nd round pick but they might have to let him go for a 3rd.  A team might even give up a 3rd round pick for a one-year rental since they will have the ability to recoup a 3rd round compensation pick next year.  Melvin won't like playing without a new contract but he doesn't have many options.  And $5.6 million ain't small change.  Maybe Melvin will get a guarantee that he won't be franchise tagged next year if he plays.

 
I don’t see how a trade can work. If there’s no trade, the Chargers will get half a season out of Gordon plus a compensatory third. To beat that, a team will have to offer at least a second. The problem is that the right to pay a player what he’s worth on the open market (which is what Gordon is demanding) is not worth a draft pick at all — certainly not a second.

Gordon might report in Week 2 or 3. Or he might sit tight until week 9. Either way, as a fantasy RB in redraft leagues, he’s certainly worth more than Kareem Hunt.

 
TheWinz said:
I haven't done an in-person live draft with friends since 2008, and I miss it.  Honestly the best day of the entire FF season.  We had one owner bring a podium and microphone, and the draft was held in an owner's house.  Food, beer, laptops all over the place, and fake printed cheatsheets.  The one token guy who gets hammered too early and starts reaching, and the guy who still owned a childhood toy called Stretch Armstrong pulling his arms every other pick.  And the best part - no website malfunction causing a team to autodraft.  Those were the days.

Now back to Gordon.  Draft Ekeler.
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You spelled Jackson wrong.

 
Don Hutson said:
Almost every time a quality player is traded there will be a point right before the trade where they say a trade isn't likely to happen.  The Chargers are going to try to maximize compensation and any trade partner is going to want to minimize compensation.  My guess is the Chargers are actually seeking a 2nd round pick but they might have to let him go for a 3rd.  A team might even give up a 3rd round pick for a one-year rental since they will have the ability to recoup a 3rd round compensation pick next year.  Melvin won't like playing without a new contract but he doesn't have many options.  And $5.6 million ain't small change.  Maybe Melvin will get a guarantee that he won't be franchise tagged next year if he plays.
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Why?  They'll get a third, and half a season of Gordon, if they don't trade him.  They'd need to get at least a 2nd, and I'm not sure why they'd even do that, unless it's from a team who's 2nd is likely in the top half of the round (like Tampa Bay). 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I don’t see how a trade can work. If there’s no trade, the Chargers will get half a season out of Gordon plus a compensatory third. To beat that, a team will have to offer at least a second. The problem is that the right to pay a player what he’s worth on the open market (which is what Gordon is demanding) is not worth a draft pick at all — certainly not a second.

Gordon might report in Week 2 or 3. Or he might sit tight until week 9. Either way, as a fantasy RB in redraft leagues, he’s certainly worth more than Kareem Hunt.
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The compensatory pick would be "after" or rather at the end of the third - roughly pick 100.  Tampa Bay's 3rd (who Vegas has 6.5 as the over/under on wins, and who only won 5 last year) could be drafting around pick 70 with their third.  Their third plus a 5th or 6th could get this done.

 
matttyl said:
The compensatory pick would be "after" or rather at the end of the third - roughly pick 100.  Tampa Bay's 3rd (who Vegas has 6.5 as the over/under on wins, and who only won 5 last year) could be drafting around pick 70 with their third.  Their third plus a 5th or 6th could get this done.
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The compensatory pick would also come a year later than a pick they could trade for. I don't think the sum of those considerations (almost a round earlier and a year earlier) is greater than the value of a half-season of Gordon at $330,000 per game.

If another pick is added, it could make sense for the Chargers. But I don't think it would make sense for their trade partner.

 
matttyl said:
The compensatory pick would be "after" or rather at the end of the third - roughly pick 100.  Tampa Bay's 3rd (who Vegas has 6.5 as the over/under on wins, and who only won 5 last year) could be drafting around pick 70 with their third.  Their third plus a 5th or 6th could get this done.
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You are on the right track here. A compensatory pick would be awarded to LAC  if and only if the Chargers don't sign a similar free agent at a similar average contract value next off season. There is no guarantee the Chargers would receive a compensatory pick at all. As you indicated, the best possible compensatory pick would be the 97th pick . . . and it's somewhat unlikely the highest paid free agent signing would be a RB. 

Using this off season as a guide, let's say Gordon signed a contract as a free agent next off season worth $11 million per year. Based on other free agent signings this year, the projected 2020 compensatory pick for a player with an AAV of $11 million would be at the top level of 4th round compensatory picks (which as already discussed is essentially the top of the 5th round). If Gordon signed for a little more than that, it's very possible his contract could garner only a 4th round compensatory pick.

The other thing being lost here is that the compensatory draft pick would be for the 2021 draft. Historically, the rule of thumb used by teams is that a pick in future seasons (since it is so far in the future) is devalued by a round for each season out. So a top of the 5th pick in terms of trade currency is viewed as a 6th round pick in current imaginary trade dollars. Bottom line, the adjusted value right now of a compensatory pick for Gordon two drafts from now would be best case an early 4th devalued to a 5th or an early 5th devalued to an early 6th.

Next up, the team acquiring Gordon today could be doing so potentially acquiring him initially as a one year rental (or less depending upon if he misses games this season). So there is risk there. If that team agrees to giving him a huge pay increase, then the team would be giving up players and / or picks in addition to having to the huge salary and cap hit they would be taking on with a new deal.

Put another way, if I am the team interested in acquiring Gordon, my trade argument would be that I could draft a younger, much cheaper running back in next year's draft who is 4 years younger who doesn't already have 1,100+ touches already.

So the rumor of the Chargers wanting a 1st and a 5th, to me, is laughable. Given all the factors at play here, I would be surprised if a team would give up more than a third round pick for Gordon. Duke Johnson recently went to HOU for a 4th round pick that could turn into a 3rd if he is active for 10 games (which is likely). He is signed for 3 more years and only carries a $2.2 million cap hit this season. The Chargers are pretty much stuck here, as they so far have not been able to get Gordon to report and teams will low ball them in a potential trade offer . . . especially if only one team is willing to make a trade.

 
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Per Albert Breer

"Did a little digging around on the Melvin Gordon trade market. To give you an idea of where it is, only offer I came across was from Philly. In that deal, Jordan Howard would go to LA, the teams would swap mid-round picks, and the Chargers would eat salary. LA obviously said no.There just hasn’t been much action on Gordon. And that’s not bc he can’t play. It’s bc there aren’t teams willing to fork over draft capital and the kind of $$$ Gordon wants. You could deal for him as a 1-year rental. But (as the Philly offer shows) that lessens his trade value."

 
Wow, Philly as at least somewhat interested.  Had that happened, and he signed long term, as a Redskins fan we'd be facing three of the best RBs in the league in our own division for the foreseeable future. 

 
zeeshan2 said:
That would have ####ed up Sander's long term value so much
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I doubt the Eagles were looking at Gordon as anything more than a 1-year rental. They are making a SB run this year, Gordon is better than Howard, and Howie Roseman loves to game the system to get compensatory picks. The long-term plans for Sanders wouldn’t have changed at all.

 
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As a Melvin owner, I would welcome him going to the Eagles as a one-year rental.  He would be playing behind a great offensive line on a team that is going to score a lot.  And he would be playing his heart out to get his mega contract.  Hopefully, the Eagles would ditch their rbbc philosophy and run him into the ground knowing that he wouldn't be back next year.  

 
Don Hutson said:
As a Melvin owner, I would welcome him going to the Eagles as a one-year rental.  He would be playing behind a great offensive line on a team that is going to score a lot.  And he would be playing his heart out to get his mega contract.  Hopefully, the Eagles would ditch their rbbc philosophy and run him into the ground knowing that he wouldn't be back next year.  
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That trade is not happening - LA is not going to eat Gordon's salary while taking on the additional salary of a mediocre RB just for a mid-round pick swap.

 
Don Hutson said:
The trade as reported isn't going to happen. That doesn't mean a trade with more reasonable terms isn't going to happen.
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I posted in other threads that the acquiring team:

- needs a RB

- has the salary cap room to sign him

- is willing to part with picks or players

- has draft picks available and / or players the Chargers would want back. 

Looking at the rosters and salary cap situations for the other 31 teams, there aren’t many potential suitors out there. The options grow some if that mystery team were to send a RB back to the Chargers, but I don’t think that is very likely. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
I posted in other threads that the acquiring team:

- needs a RB

- has the salary cap room to sign him

- is willing to part with picks or players

- has draft picks available and / or players the Chargers would want back. 

Looking at the rosters and salary cap situations for the other 31 teams, there aren’t many potential suitors out there. The options grow some if that mystery team were to send a RB back to the Chargers, but I don’t think that is very likely. 
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Melvin is due $5.6 million.  22 teams have that much in cap space.  The league average is $14 million in cap space.  And any team can redo contracts to make it work if they really want him.

 
Albert Breer✔@AlbertBreer

Did a little digging around on the Melvin Gordon trade market. To give you an idea of where it is, only offer I came across was from Philly.

In that deal, Jordan Howard would go to LA, the teams would swap mid-round picks, and the Chargers would eat salary. LA obviously said no.

1,313

12:24 PM - Sep 4, 2019
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:lmao:  

 
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