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RB Melvin Gordon, BAL (4 Viewers)

The question for me isn't if Gordon "will be fine", it's whether he can justify his #37 overall ADP.

I don't think I've seen enough to say that he is worth that kind of investment.

...and nobody is "panicking", we're simply taking better players at that ADP.
In fairness, turning down Gordon for Abdullah straight up is he very definition of panicking.
This may be nitpicking, but I don't agree.Trading away Gordon FOR Abdullah based on one preseason game might be panicking.

BUT an owner who already had Abdullah....who turns down Gordon for Abdullah......could simply have liked Abdullah better all along.

Again, perhaps nitpicking or too much nuance, but the 2 situations I described are different.
I don't think that's nit-picking at all - it's a huge difference. Trading Gordon for Abduallah shows that you've changed your position, drastically, since the draft. Turning down Gordon for Abdullah, as you say, could just be someone being consistent.

 
RenegadeRoy said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Bucky86 said:
:lmao: Guy in my league is freaking out now. He went Gordon 1.1 and is trying to unload him. :lmao: I love the pre-season.
jesus, how don't people realize how meaningless preseason is. it's a joke, would serve people better to basically ignore it.
I agree that as a whole it creates a small sample size/panic, but you can't ignore the fact that in his first NFL snaps Gordon proved exactly what scouts had feared about him: his indecisiveness at the line. Now, granted, it was one game with six carries, but it still wasn't a great display. I think what we have here is a combination of over-expectations meeting reality and that is creating the panic.
Barring a major injury there is no way i'd trade a RB drafted 15th overall for a RB drafted 54th overall before at least 6-8 games of regular season action.

Preseason NFL snaps are not real NFL snaps.

I do like Abdullah but trading Gordon for him based off meaningless preseason action is a bit out there.

 
Barring a major injury there is no way i'd trade a RB drafted 15th overall for a RB drafted 54th overall before at least 6-8 games of regular season action.

Preseason NFL snaps are not real NFL snaps.

I do like Abdullah but trading Gordon for him based off meaningless preseason action is a bit out there.
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.

 
Barring a major injury there is no way i'd trade a RB drafted 15th overall for a RB drafted 54th overall before at least 6-8 games of regular season action.

Preseason NFL snaps are not real NFL snaps.

I do like Abdullah but trading Gordon for him based off meaningless preseason action is a bit out there.
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
or NFL success.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
tommyGunZ said:
The question for me isn't if Gordon "will be fine", it's whether he can justify his #37 overall ADP.

I don't think I've seen enough to say that he is worth that kind of investment.

...and nobody is "panicking", we're simply taking better players at that ADP.
In fairness, turning down Gordon for Abdullah straight up is he very definition of panicking.
This may be nitpicking, but I don't agree. Trading away Gordon FOR Abdullah based on one preseason game might be panicking.

BUT an owner who already had Abdullah....who turns down Gordon for Abdullah......could simply have liked Abdullah better all along.

Again, perhaps nitpicking or too much nuance, but the 2 situations I described are different.
Exactly.

Matt Waldman might be the FBG staff member I listen to the most and he has been touting Abdullah since before the draft.... I believe as the second best RB in the draft. He is widely considered one of the most repected evaluators of the RB position based on podcasts I have listened to outside of FBG.

I'll admit I am completely biased because they just could have drafted Abdullah or Duke Johnson in the second round instead of using a 1st, 3rd, and 4th on Gordon. It's easy to be on the AA hype train now but Johnson hasn't shown anything yet but I still would rather have him in the 2nd, especially based on all the Chargers areas of need.

 
jurb26 said:
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason...

"Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469

 
jurb26 said:
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason...

"Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469
I bet the Chargers are already looking for ways to rectify their colossal draft-day mistake!

 
How many of these runs were bad runs? He was hit in the backfield several times within a split second of receiving the ball, so those cant be classified as poor.

Out of the 6 runs, I counted 1 bad carry. http://www.chargers.com/video/2015/08/13/every-melvin-gordon-carry-vs-cowboys
RenegadeRoy said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
Bucky86 said:
:lmao: Guy in my league is freaking out now. He went Gordon 1.1 and is trying to unload him. :lmao: I love the pre-season.
jesus, how don't people realize how meaningless preseason is. it's a joke, would serve people better to basically ignore it.
I agree that as a whole it creates a small sample size/panic, but you can't ignore the fact that in his first NFL snaps Gordon proved exactly what scouts had feared about him: his indecisiveness at the line.
I can ignore that "fact", because in the video TGunz was nice enough to provide, I didn't see indecisiveness at all. I saw a back that ran into a few defenders in the backfield.

I also saw him hit it up in there. Bottom line, it was his first 6 carries, and it's too soon to make any proclamations. This is where people inevitably add in a "BUT" and then proceed to do exactly that.



 
jurb26 said:
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason..."Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469
That actually sounds like a description of L Maroney
 
Had he ripped off two long runs would the preseason then mean something to Gordon owners? I bet yes. Fact is, he looked pedestrian and was outplayed by Oliver.

 
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Had he ripped off two long runs would the preseason then mean something to Gordon owners? I bet yes. Fact is, he looked pedestrian and was outplayed by Oliver.
So if he does rip off two long runs next game and Abdullah gets stuffed on 5 carries does the momentum swing back in favor of Gordon? Do you see how silly this gets if you allow for knee-jerk reactions to so small a sample size in meaningless games?

 
I agree that we shouldn't be burying Gordon because of this preseason performance. That's just silly. However, I had him buried long ago simply off of what I've seen on his college tape and where he's being drafted in redraft and dynasty.

 
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
Especially for Wisconsin RB's.
What other Wisconsin RB has ever gone in round 1? I can only think of Ron Dayne, who never lived up to his hype but had some solid stretches at least, early in his career and then later once he landed in Denver.
Are we just talking about 1st rounders? I thought he was just relating draft position to success. For example, a second round RB must be better than a 4th round RB, etc. I was skimming so sorry if I missed that part of the discussion.

 
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
Especially for Wisconsin RB's.
What other Wisconsin RB has ever gone in round 1? I can only think of Ron Dayne, who never lived up to his hype but had some solid stretches at least, early in his career and then later once he landed in Denver.
Michael Bennett went in the first round to the Vikes.
Forgot about him, thanks. Yes, he was a bust.

 
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
Especially for Wisconsin RB's.
What other Wisconsin RB has ever gone in round 1? I can only think of Ron Dayne, who never lived up to his hype but had some solid stretches at least, early in his career and then later once he landed in Denver.
Michael Bennett went in the first round to the Vikes.
Forgot about him, thanks. Yes, he was a bust.
Bennett looked to be the real deal in his second season but then couldn't stay healthy.

 
Actually, the Cleveland Rams hit the jackpot with the 11th overall pick of the 1945 draft, taking Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch. The one RB from Wisconsin taken in the 1st three rounds of the NFL draft that actually amounted to something.

 
If he is a 2 down back and loses majority of passing work and some GL, his value in PPR is capped. Not doing much in receptions, that hurts his value a lot. Also Oliver could end up playing a bigger role than most think and that could really limit his value.Then add in that he is a rookie and may not play well and end up running worse than expected.

This is why he has dropped in drafts and I decided to take Spiller over him but not for the Oliver reason. Gordon is safer than Spiller but Spiller could outscore Gordon if he stays healthy due to a big plus in PPR. Spiller could get more work in the rushing game than some think as well.

 
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NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
Especially for Wisconsin RB's.
What other Wisconsin RB has ever gone in round 1? I can only think of Ron Dayne, who never lived up to his hype but had some solid stretches at least, early in his career and then later once he landed in Denver.
Michael Bennett went in the first round to the Vikes.
Forgot about him, thanks. Yes, he was a bust.
Bennett looked to be the real deal in his second season but then couldn't stay healthy.
Yes, injuries did him in for the most part.

 
Preseason is not meaningless, at least not for seeing talent actually happen on the field. I wouldn't bury anyone for 1 bad preseason game on limited snaps but if this happens in the next two games, I'd panic if I owned Gordon.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
NFL draft position isn't necessarily a direct correlation to fantasy value.
Especially for Wisconsin RB's.
What other Wisconsin RB has ever gone in round 1? I can only think of Ron Dayne, who never lived up to his hype but had some solid stretches at least, early in his career and then later once he landed in Denver.
Michael Bennett went in the first round to the Vikes.
Forgot about him, thanks. Yes, he was a bust.
Bennett looked to be the real deal in his second season but then couldn't stay healthy.
Yes, injuries did him in for the most part.
I picked Bennet over LT in a keeper league. Not my proudest moment.

 
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason...

"Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469
I typically pay head to the pros and cons outlined in scouting reports, but at face value, this assessment reads as if Gordon was a back who should have been drafted on day 3 rather than one chased after in a trade up to take 15th overall. He can't be that bad...

 
Rotoworld:

Melvin Gordon - RB - Chargers

Melvin Gordon may not play in the Chargers' second exhibition game due to a "minor" ankle injury.

The injury doesn't sound like a significant concern, but it's a lost opportunity following Gordon's underwhelming, six-carry, 11-yard preseason debut. We've noticed Gordon's ADP sinking recently, from the third round often deep into the fourth. He could end up being a terrific value at the reduced cost.

Source: Rand Getlin on Twitter

Aug 19 - 9:20 PM
 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.

 
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason..."Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469
I typically pay head to the pros and cons outlined in scouting reports, but at face value, this assessment reads as if Gordon was a back who should have been drafted on day 3 rather than one chased after in a trade up to take 15th overall. He can't be that bad...
To be clear those are his weaknesses from the link, not the entire scouting report. Which part in particular do you disagree with?

To me a RB really needs to be NFL special in a certain area or be very good at everything and have no weaknesses to get drafted in the first round. I don't think Gordon passes either of those tests and not only did he cost a first rounder, but a third and fourth as well. Several Charger fans weren't too happy they gave up so much. Again, I am afraid sometimes Telesco makes moves to avoid criticism by the casual fan... well, we need a starting RB and I landed the second ranked RB in the draft! It doesn't take into account just how many "GOOD" RB's there were in this draft at a fraction of the price or the number of weak areas there were on the team.

Gordon absolutely could develop into a three down RB and maybe an excellent one in a year or two... but do you really need to give up a 1st/3rd/4th to draft a RB you need to develop? Maybe it's not even Telesco problem as much as it is a scouting problem with regard to RB and LB if his scouts are telling him that Gordon/Te'o/Attaochu are worth 1st/2nd/2nd/3rd/4th/4th/4th draft picks. They just aren't.

 
Those who watched him closely in college, what do attribute all his dancing in the backfield too in game one? I don't recall seeing him so timid and unsure in college. He seemed confident in his eyes and decisive in college. He looked cautious and unsure the other day and therefor danced for no reason.
This was written way before the preseason..."Desires to bounce runs wide too often. Not as trusting of blocking from B-gap to B-gap. Held to "stuffs" -- runs resulting in no yards or a loss -- on 19.2 percent of his carries. Feel and instincts as interior runner need improvement. Shows indecisiveness as one-cut runner. Would gear down and stutter-step to line, waiting for crease to show itself rather than adjusting on fly and taking what was available. Play strength through hole was only average. Used speed over strength to create many missed or broken tackles. Benefited from gaping running lanes. Ball security was an issue. Fumbled six times over his final five games, often being stripped while finishing run. Uncomfortable pass-catcher with marginal hands. Either dropped, double caught or smothered many throws. Pass protection needs work. Might have to come off field on third downs."http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/melvin-gordon?id=2552469
I typically pay head to the pros and cons outlined in scouting reports, but at face value, this assessment reads as if Gordon was a back who should have been drafted on day 3 rather than one chased after in a trade up to take 15th overall. He can't be that bad...
To be clear those are his weaknesses from the link, not the entire scouting report. Which part in particular do you disagree with?

To me a RB really needs to be NFL special in a certain area or be very good at everything and have no weaknesses to get drafted in the first round. I don't think Gordon passes either of those tests and not only did he cost a first rounder, but a third and fourth as well. Several Charger fans weren't too happy they gave up so much. Again, I am afraid sometimes Telesco makes moves to avoid criticism by the casual fan... well, we need a starting RB and I landed the second ranked RB in the draft! It doesn't take into account just how many "GOOD" RB's there were in this draft at a fraction of the price or the number of weak areas there were on the team.

Gordon absolutely could develop into a three down RB and maybe an excellent one in a year or two... but do you really need to give up a 1st/3rd/4th to draft a RB you need to develop? Maybe it's not even Telesco problem as much as it is a scouting problem with regard to RB and LB if his scouts are telling him that Gordon/Te'o/Attaochu are worth 1st/2nd/2nd/3rd/4th/4th/4th draft picks. They just aren't.
I think those 3 are absolutely worth those picks.

 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.
Yea but his competition is Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver. He'll get his chance to prove he belongs there.

 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.
Yea but his competition is Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver. He'll get his chance to prove he belongs there.
He is in line to get the majority of first and second down work, provided he doesn't get hurt, doesn't have a fumbling problem, and doesn't flop with that opportunity. He is not in line to play any third downs or snaps in the hurry up/2/4 minute offense, and he will be spelled on some first and second downs.

Yes, that equals a chance to prove he belongs. But it probably doesn't justify his ADP.

 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.
Yea but his competition is Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver. He'll get his chance to prove he belongs there.
He is in line to get the majority of first and second down work, provided he doesn't get hurt, doesn't have a fumbling problem, and doesn't flop with that opportunity. He is not in line to play any third downs or snaps in the hurry up/2/4 minute offense, and he will be spelled on some first and second downs.

Yes, that equals a chance to prove he belongs. But it probably doesn't justify his ADP.
As I have mentioned, in PPR he might not do that well. Losing all that passing work is going to limit his value. He isn't a slam dunk RB 2 unless he proves he can run well and even then he has to get passing work and score.

 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.
Yea but his competition is Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver. He'll get his chance to prove he belongs there.
He is in line to get the majority of first and second down work, provided he doesn't get hurt, doesn't have a fumbling problem, and doesn't flop with that opportunity. He is not in line to play any third downs or snaps in the hurry up/2/4 minute offense, and he will be spelled on some first and second downs.

Yes, that equals a chance to prove he belongs. But it probably doesn't justify his ADP.
He's falling into the mid to late 4th round right now. Not sure when else you would take him. Getting a guy who will most certainly have 1st and 2nd down work wrapped up in the 4th round seems worth it.

 
Just read today that he again struggled in pass protection on 8/18. Combined with an ankle injury, it seems clear to me that his role will be limited to open the season, and he will need to earn a bigger role as the season plays out, if he can.
Yea but his competition is Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver. He'll get his chance to prove he belongs there.
He is in line to get the majority of first and second down work, provided he doesn't get hurt, doesn't have a fumbling problem, and doesn't flop with that opportunity. He is not in line to play any third downs or snaps in the hurry up/2/4 minute offense, and he will be spelled on some first and second downs.

Yes, that equals a chance to prove he belongs. But it probably doesn't justify his ADP.
He's falling into the mid to late 4th round right now. Not sure when else you would take him. Getting a guy who will most certainly have 1st and 2nd down work wrapped up in the 4th round seems worth it.
Not only that, but you're getting a guy with a very high ceiling whose role could expand significantly if he proves to be as dynamic as the Chargers hope.

 
The question for me isn't if Gordon "will be fine", it's whether he can justify his #37 overall ADP.

I don't think I've seen enough to say that he is worth that kind of investment.

...and nobody is "panicking", we're simply taking better players at that ADP.
In fairness, turning down Gordon for Abdullah straight up is he very definition of panicking.
No it's not. Abdullah is the better player
 

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