Well then both of you are misguided.
Hanging onto the ball and going out of bounds with it yields the exact same outcome.
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RB Melvin Gordon, BAL (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Hanging onto the ball and going out of bounds with it yields the exact same outcome.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Nope. Go watch the video. Ekeler's hands never got to the pylon, even after losing the ball. The last few seconds of the replay make it very clear.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/video?gameId=401128019
Weebs210
Footballguy
I've watched the replay. He would have scored if he didn't fumble. I'm sure in the film room Ekeler will say "There was no time left on the clock, it was 4th down, and I was trying to stretch the ball into the endzone. It was the RB version of a QB throwing an INT on a hail mary"
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LOL. His hands were almost a full yard short of the pylon, even after losing the ball.
Regardless, the situation was exactly the same as a hail mary -- either you score or you don't, and nothing else matters.
Weebs210
Footballguy
You are the last person's opinion I will listen to about anything Ekeler. He easily scores there if he doesn't fumble. I'll trust what I see and the words of the player.
Asked if he felt he would have scored, he added, “If I held on to the ball, yeah, I do. He just hit my arm.”
Tau837
Footballguy
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
anyone starting Gordon and Ekeler this week in PPR? Leaning towards it in my 16 team league.
joey
Footballguy
In 12 team dynasty p, I have both Gordon/Ekeler and Gurley/Brown. Have to decide on 2 of those 4 and the Gordon/Ekeler option is definitely on the table (though, if Gurley is inactive, I think I have to start Brown over a workload split with Ekeler).
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The Frankman
Footballguy
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
With that OL I’m not sure either of the Chargers RB is worth starting right now. Yeesh. That was a train wreck.
With Gordon back that’s now a 60-40 RBBC from hell too.
Chargers look really bad. Games against the Raiders & Chiefs should be fruitful, but even then I’m not sure that tissue paper OL can stop a stiff breeze.
I realize not every team can pressure like PIT, but I’m betting a lot of DC’s went to school on SNF & will try to do the same things.
With Gordon back that’s now a 60-40 RBBC from hell too.
Chargers look really bad. Games against the Raiders & Chiefs should be fruitful, but even then I’m not sure that tissue paper OL can stop a stiff breeze.
I realize not every team can pressure like PIT, but I’m betting a lot of DC’s went to school on SNF & will try to do the same things.
I don't 100% disagree, but that might just be the new normal for the Chargers.
One thing we can all probably agree on, Melvin Gordon's contract year isn't going anywhere near how he'd hoped.
Shutout
Footballguy
I cant recall a worse "holdout" outcome. His value is just....kerplunk! I know we can't make a direct comparison here but I actually liked how the Chargers were operating before he came back. Whoever made the call for the Chargers to let him sit out thinking they would be just fine without him deserves a raise. They were dead on.
Weebs210
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
The Chargers are 2-4 because they didn't pay Gordon.
This narrative that Ekeler is playing better than Gordon is true in fantasy football, but Gordon averaged a career high 5.1 ypc last year. Ekeler is averaging 3.8 this year and has two lost fumbles.
I know ekeler has caught the ball well, but he could have been catching the ball as a 1b back instead of a primary ball carrier.
The chargers had 104 rushing first downs last year. They had 26 through the first 5 weeks (pro football reference isn't updated for week 6 yet). They've converted first downs through the air at a good rate but those are inherently riskier passes when you're not running well. Rivers had 13 turnovers last year. He has 8 already this year.
Hunter Henry and Williams being hurt impacted the offense. Gordon being out and now rusty is hurting the offense more.
Like the 2018 Steelers with Bell, the Chargers badly miscalculated by falling to bring in their most important offensive player and wasted a year of a dwindling championship window. They will have slightly more cap space to sign players for next year when it's too late but 2019 was a rare opportunity at a division title with a vulnerable mahomes chiefs team losing a couple games already.
This narrative that Ekeler is playing better than Gordon is true in fantasy football, but Gordon averaged a career high 5.1 ypc last year. Ekeler is averaging 3.8 this year and has two lost fumbles.
I know ekeler has caught the ball well, but he could have been catching the ball as a 1b back instead of a primary ball carrier.
The chargers had 104 rushing first downs last year. They had 26 through the first 5 weeks (pro football reference isn't updated for week 6 yet). They've converted first downs through the air at a good rate but those are inherently riskier passes when you're not running well. Rivers had 13 turnovers last year. He has 8 already this year.
Hunter Henry and Williams being hurt impacted the offense. Gordon being out and now rusty is hurting the offense more.
Like the 2018 Steelers with Bell, the Chargers badly miscalculated by falling to bring in their most important offensive player and wasted a year of a dwindling championship window. They will have slightly more cap space to sign players for next year when it's too late but 2019 was a rare opportunity at a division title with a vulnerable mahomes chiefs team losing a couple games already.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All of this is spot on.
add losing the starting center, (not a JAG, but one of the better centers in the NFL IMO) - I think id read that they were without 5 pro-bowl players on SNF?
chargers had a rookie guard making his first start
Gordon’s holdout didn’t do that.
The OL is a mess. Several either playing out of their natural position or inexperienced in general.
after week 5’s game they said they had to simplify the offense to run anything. So it’s hard to crap on coaching too badly - they got dealt a bad hand. Injuries are the great equalizer in the NFL.
as a Niner fan I’ll say I’m shocked they won this week - several OL & their all pro FB out, it took a little luck & a lot of defense, but among my circle of friends I’d predicted their first loss for largely the same reasons the Chargers looked so bad.
losing Pouncey isn’t just losing a player though - dude was the heart of that offensive line. Arguably the leader of that offense next to Rivers. That’s a brutal loss.
hard to imagine the Chargers winning without him, and in context of this topic, hard to imagine a successful running game behind a make-shift line for either back.
I agree Gordon’s holdout was unsuccessful - but everyone agreed it was dumb from the start since he lacked leverage. All he did was showed the Chargers that Eck could handle a larger role.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Evan SilvaVerified account @evansilva
Since ending his holdout, 15 of #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon’s 20 carries have gained 3 yards or less (75%).
8 of his 11 targets have gained 3 yards to less (73%).
All told, plays intended for Melvin Gordon have averaged 2.77 yards.
Just 1 of them (3%) has gained a first down.
9:32 AM - 14 Oct 2019
Since ending his holdout, 15 of #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon’s 20 carries have gained 3 yards or less (75%).
8 of his 11 targets have gained 3 yards to less (73%).
All told, plays intended for Melvin Gordon have averaged 2.77 yards.
Just 1 of them (3%) has gained a first down.
9:32 AM - 14 Oct 2019
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
It’s a shame he decided to hold out. He kind of did this to himself. He took a big step and made real progress last year, but now it’s like he’s starting over. These numbers read like his rookie season.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
It's shocking to me that anyone honestly believes this.
Can you unpack it for me? Are you saying that they would have beat DET and HOU if they would have had Gordon? HOU is just a better team, and it's not really close so if you are saying Gordon would have made the difference in that game I think your dead wrong. DET? Well, Ekeler had 133 yards from scrimmage and a TD so I don't think the RB position is the reason they lost that game either.
It's almost like some people are watching a completely different team. They are 0-2 since Gordon came back(keep in mind he wants to be payed like a franchise RB). Ekeler is only averaging 3.8y/c?! Behind the same OL Gordon is averaging 2.5y/c. The chargers were 2-2 without Gordon, and now are 0-2 since he came back. So he WAS the missing piece all along..... WTF.
The crowd that said that the chargers are making a big mistake not caving to the demand of Gordon and his agent are just looking more silly each and every week. How can people possibly be doubling down on this?!
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Seems to me that production is closer to a top 50 RB in the NFL than it is to a top 5 RB. And people are STILL saying that the chargers should have given him the money he was asking for. I said before the season began that he was getting overpaid at $5mil. At the end of the day telesco was incredibly lucky Gordon and his agent turned up his nose at ~10mil/season. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
This. Gordon isn't playing in a vacuum. His holdout didn't work to his advantage, but it failed "Financially", not "Physically. The team around him isn't the same team that was on the field last year due in large part to injury. Hard to see it fully rebounding due to OTHER PEOPLE's injuries. That isn't on Gordon. His scene changed.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Maybe the two fumbles on the goal line has something to do with it. Ekeler should stop eating popcorn pregame.
Weebs210
Footballguy
So based on two rusty games for Gordon you are willing to make this assumption. Lol.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Well, the chargers lost 13 to 10, and ekeler fumbled on the 1 yard line, but he had a good fantasy football performance so it can't be his fault.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201909150det.htm#all_pbp
Look at the play by play.
The chargers had ten possessions.
5 of them ended on the set of downs that included a run of two or fewer yards and a failed first down. For example, a 2 yard run on 1st and 10, followed by two incomplete passes, or a zero yard run on 2nd and 10 followed by an incomplete pass). The worst was justin Jackson running for a 4 yard loss on first down, incomplete pass by rivers on 2nd, and an interception by rivers on third.
The sixth ended with an ekeler fumble on the 1.
It's not that Gordon never runs for no gain or 2 yards. Every running back does. But another thing that sucks is that all of the drives im talking about ended with incomplete passes. Once the chargers ran it on first or second down and failed to get 3 plus yards, they literally never tried a second run to set up an easier third down.
Rivers attempted 36 passes. 15 of them were on 2nd and 8 or longer, or third and 8 or longer.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
No Okung, no Pouncey - if i could get out of this backfield I would. 5th round Melvin Gordon not looking so good, wish I had taken Mark Ingram.
bostonfred
Footballguy
As for the Texans, the chargers led that game 17 to 7 at halftime.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201909220sdg.htm
What do winning teams do in the second half when they have a two score lead?
I doubt you said "start their first drive of the second half with a run for minus four and go 3 and out", but that's what the chargers did.
TheTexans scored and the chargers next drive took about six minutes off the clock but didn't score. The next drive ended when ekeler ran for 1 yard on first and 10 and rivers passed twice. And the one after that ended when watt failed to convert a 3rd and 1.
Considering they lost by 7, and ekeler only had 9 rushes, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest they would have had a better chance if Gordon had played.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
I think it's also pretty obvious that Gordon would be playing better right now if he'd gone to training camp and been part of the team. Does that mean they'd be 6-0 with him? There's no way to say either way.
But there's no question in my mind they'd be better than 2-4, and I'd literally have bet money on it. They'd probably be 4-2 or better right now. And with the chiefs losing twice already that means they'd be at the top of their division.
Failing to sign Gordon saved them money but cost them a year of a dwindling window.
But there's no question in my mind they'd be better than 2-4, and I'd literally have bet money on it. They'd probably be 4-2 or better right now. And with the chiefs losing twice already that means they'd be at the top of their division.
Failing to sign Gordon saved them money but cost them a year of a dwindling window.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Ekeler did have good fantasy football numbers though.
Tau837
Footballguy
Here are some facts about Melvin Gordon's career:
- He has played 59 career games. He averaged 4+ ypc in just 28 of them (47%).
- He has 943 career rushing attempts. Just 365 of them (39%) have gained 4 or more yards.
- Gordon's 1 season with a good ypc was 2018. He averaged 5.9 ypc on 64 carries running outside Okung in 2018 and 4.1 ypc on his other 137 carries. Okung is currently out and might not play a snap this season, maybe never again.
- Since Gordon returned from his second injury last season, he has played in 6 games. In those games, he has 68 rushing attempts for 187 rushing yards (2.75 ypc) and 15 receptions for 88 yards (5.9 ypr).
- In 2018-2019, the Chargers are 6-2 without Gordon and 9-7 with him.
Tau837
Footballguy
Pouncey is out for the season. Okung's status is not known. In theory, he could return after week 7, but he is out due to a pulmonary embolism. That likely means he is on blood thinners, which makes it likely he will not play at all this season.bolldpt said:
The Chargers probably have the worst OL in the NFL at this point.
I think we see eye to eye on pretty much all Chargers related things, but don't you dare take that title from Miami.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
He may be back to football this week, but that means back to practice. He hasn't practiced since early June. I expect he will need at least 2-3 weeks before seeing the field in a game, though I would love to be wrong about that. His absence has been the biggest negative impact on the offense by far this season.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
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Mario Wario
Footballguy
As a former Gordon owner, I do recommend handcuffing him with AK. Gordon does have a history of missing games (due to injuries). Even with that offensive lineman returning eventually, it won’t get that much better which means Gordon is going to continue to get beat up. Work hard for some yardage. Mattison is a ‘golden ticket’ if Cooks goes down, so I get it, but what if Gordon goes down for you before Cook? What if Cook plays a full season? What’s your plan B? Heck, what if Gordon keeps on playing bad, will AK get more playing time, the team goes back to what worked earlier this season? Gordon has a lot of risk to his name this year, and I do think that trade is fair, but it’s up to you. It’s your team, not mine.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It was an immediate partial upchuck
when I heard Pouncey was lost for the season, terrible for run blocking in the "A" gaps no matter which RB you might own. I'll give you this, of the team actually trying to compete and Miami isn't one of them, Bolts might be pretty bad. I'm saying Miami is far worse however they aren't trying to really win, last I checked the Chargers thought they were a playoff team and most NFL fans.
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No chunk plays, like Ekler has provided the offense? Also, Denver and Pitt have played good defense.
i feel like he is killing the whole offense. Is it just me?
